The 144,000 Revelations 7:4

[Jesus: From Gen to Rev]

I am very sorry smithed64 but your reply contains anti-protestant error that came from the counter-reformation. It is theologically called Futurism, or Dispensationism.

This was a theology started by the Jesuit Francisco Ribera during the Reformation to try and stop the Reformers because they had identified the papacy as the Antichrist.

Ribera reinterpreted Scripture to push the Antichrist into the future. The theology didn't work on the reformers, but during the 1800's it was dragged into the Protestant Churches by people such as JN Darby, Scofield (in his reference Bible), Dallas Theological Seminary (from where it also spread far and wide), and even CT Russell - the forerunner of the JWs.

Many Churches are now teaching Futurism - with its future Antichrist, secret rapture, 3.5 year tribulation, millennium on Earth, etc., etc., as if it is Bible Truth.

My friend, and all caught up in it, look into the origins of the Futurism/Dispensationism theology - you are in for a real shock!

As I mentioned in a previous reply, have you noticed that there is a difference in the names of the tribes in Rev compared to the names of the 12 tribes of literal Israel?

Christians are now 'spiritual' Israel, and Jews need to be 'grafted' into God's True Christian Church to be saved.

To understand the NT Gospel correctly, please fully understand the OT Gospel as taught by God to the Jews.

Please don't just believe me, but be a good Bible student and study these things thoroughly.

 

[Stillicidia]

Revelation names the twelve tribes, but there were fourteen, so it seems the simple answer is, the number 144,000 is symbolical, not reality.

weren't 2 of the tribes destroyed? It is reality, not symbolical.

 

[Jesus: From Gen to Rev]

The two witnesses...two people that will finish their testimony.
Enoch, per Hebrews 11 had a testimony when he was translated.
Jesus Christ will bring the sleeping saints with Him. Enoch will have
to die to be one the saints that will put on immortality.

My dear friend vinsight4u, would you mind reconsidering what you have said about Enoch please. He, like Elijah, will never taste of death. Moses did, and he was resurrected and taken to Heaven by Jesus. Enoch and Elijah are representative of the saved on Earth at Jesus' second coming - the 144,000. They don't die, but they are changed and are given immortality. Moses is representative of the the rest of the saved from Adam's time down to the second coming, who are resurrected and given immortality then. ...

See 1 Cor 15:51-54 and 1 Thes 4:13-18

Unfortunately, the Dispensationist / Futurist theology (which is wrong - see my other replies) brought with it the concept of Enoch and Elijah being the two witnesses and them dying. So very, very wrong.

The two witnesses are the Old and New Testaments - combined they are the Word of God, the Bible. Rev 11:3-7 where this verse is found says they were clothed in sackcloth for 1260 days (years) - which was from 538-1798 AD - the time when the Bible was not readily available.

See also Zech 4, and remember Psalm 119:105 "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path."

I'd appreciate your feedback thanks.

 

[Jesus: From Gen to Rev]

weren't 2 of the tribes destroyed? It is reality, not symbolical.

Thank you Stillicidia for your comment. May I fine-tune it a little for you please?

Take the time to study every single cardinal number in Revelation (not the ordinal numbers - like 'first', 'seventh', etc. - a number that shows the order something occurs in - don't worry about them for this study). Leaving aside the 144,000 for a moment, you will find that every single cardinal number in Revelation means precisely that number. No more, and no less. Always the number stated is what God fully intended.

Sometimes, what the number refers to is literal, other times it is symbolic. Let me give you an example ... 1260 days = 1260 years in prophecy. The 1260 is literal, but the 'days' is symbolic of 'years'.

The seven churches of Rev 2, 3 - the seven is literal, and the seven churches were literal too. But, they are also symbolic of the seven 'phases' of the Christian Church, from the days of the apostles to our day - we are living in the Laodicean era.

The two missing names of tribes in Rev 7 are Dan and Ephraim - because of their sins.

Regarding the 12 tribes in Revelation - the 12 is literal, but the tribes are not literally the original tribes of Israel. That's very obvious when you look at the names. Here in Rev 7, referring to the 144,000, it is referring to the character traits they will have. None will have the character of Dan or Ephraim.

While I have been overly brief, and have therefore not done the explanation full justice, I hope that what has been shared will be of some help.

 

[Guide To The Bible]

I have read this a few times and I have also asked fellow Christians about this with mixed answers. What are they referring to when they say 144,00, sealed from every tribe of Israel?
Me personal I can't image GOD only allowing 144,000 into heaven. If you look at the whole Bible in the old testament GOD tells Abraham that he will number his offspring like that of the stars and bless them. So why would GOD do such a thing and not take more then 144,000.

What I think it refers to is 144,000 angels that GOD will select to help with the end of days.
What does everyone think?

Thanks for you comments
GOD bless you all!!

This clip helps explain why the 144,000 will actually be Christian's who happen to be descendants of Jacob:

The 144,000 with be raptured/resurrected with the Two witnesses, just as the Holy men where resurrected with Jesus when they broke out their tombs:

Matthew 27:52
and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life.

The 144,000 will return with Jesus as foretold by Jude:

Jude 1:14
Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: "See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones

They will reign as priests of God in the Millennial reign:

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

The great multitude will not be resurrected till the end of the 1000 years:

Revelation 20:5
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.

 

[JoeP222w]

It is metaphoric and symbolic. To the original audience the number 1,000 was a very large number, so 144,000 would be a very, very large number.

God chooses people from every tribe, tongue and nation, and of that number, no one can accurately number who will be saved. That is the point of the passage.

 

[Bruce Carr]

I'm confused why you think only 144,000 will enter into heaven. Where does that presumption come from?

Jehovas Witnesses believe this from my understanding.....

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Guide To The Bible]

Only Jesus Christ so far has bodily put on immortality. All of those that arose and were seen after He arose, did not put on new bodies yet for eternal life. They had to die again. None of them went to heaven bodily, only as souls. Souls that don't die during the first death time went to heaven and will return as sleeping saints with Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 6:16
"Who only hath immortality...which no man can approach unto..."

The two witnesses will rise at the same hour as a great earthquake. This is what the holy being told John. This is the third woe time, thus the 7th trumpet hour.
Revelation 11 is mostly where a holy being tells John prophecy, stood - saying...."

No it's the 2nd woe:

Rev11
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven. 14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

The 2 Witnesses resurrect at the 2nd woe and there's a great Earthquake, the Abomination is set up and this is also the 6th trump at this point. The 3rd woe is 45 days after this and is when Jesus returns on the final 7th trump.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Guide To The Bible]

The holy being is talking to John. John did not see them rise. He was only told that rise at the same hour as a great earthquake. That earthquake is the third woe. This is why John was told - the third woe cometh quickly.
John had already been told what the third woe would be. - great earthquake
Back at the end of chapter 9, it tells how in the 2nd woe - men do not repent. When the great earthquake hour comes, then they give glory to God. John wrote how man rises not till the heavens be no more. 6th seal - heaven departs
This is when the gift-giving of the wicked comes to a halt - the day of the Lord is here, and sudden destruction comes upon them.
They had been saying, Peace and safety. The two witnesses were dead, time to party is what they thought-celebrate!
rejoice - make merry
shall send gifts one to another

the holy city tread under 42 months
/7th trumpet sounds
This is the third woe hour - the great earthquake hour. The 5th seal shows that all
martyrs wait till the last one comes in. Jesus Christ will bring the sleeping saints with Him.
6th seal - great earthquake
Immediately after the tribulation of those days- sun shall be darkened...stars fall.

they heard a great voice from heaven
/John did not hear this voice. A holy being is
telling prophecy.

Nah.

The 2 Witnesses resurrect at the 2nd woe and there's a great Earthquake, the Abomination is set up and this is also the 6th trump at this point. The 3rd woe is 45 days after this and is when Jesus returns on the final 7th trump. The greatest ever Earthquake happens at Jesus' return.

 

[mark kennedy]

I have read this a few times and I have also asked fellow Christians about this with mixed answers. What are they referring to when they say 144,00, sealed from every tribe of Israel?
Me personal I can't image GOD only allowing 144,000 into heaven. If you look at the whole Bible in the old testament GOD tells Abraham that he will number his offspring like that of the stars and bless them. So why would GOD do such a thing and not take more then 144,000.

What I think it refers to is 144,000 angels that GOD will select to help with the end of days.
What does everyone think?

Thanks for you comments
GOD bless you all!!

For one thing during the Tribulation they are not in heaven they are on earth. God selected them from the descendants of Abraham as a witness. They are not the only ones going to heaven. In addition to the 144,000 there is a great multitude that no one could number:

After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” (Rev. 7:9,10)
​

These are known as the Tribulation Saints, people are saved throughout the Tribulation which is kind of the whole point. Armageddon is also known as the 'valley of decision', it's God putting earth on notice that it's time to get off the fence and make a decision.

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:​

And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. (Rev. 6:10,11)
​

These people had died martyrs deaths during the initial rampage of the Antichrist following the opening of the first four seals. A world conqueror, world war, world famine and world pestilence. At the opening of the fifth seal these martyrs are revealed beneath the throne and with the sixth seal their persecutors are punished with devastating wrath.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[rainbowinthesky]

First this message which invites to receive the righteousness of Christ, both imputed and imparted, by trusting wholly in the merits of His shed blood, must be proclaimed to the churches of the Laodiceans for the last time. Upon the rejection of that message comes the close of probation for the church. (Matt.22:8)

This is followed by the proclamation of the message of Rev.18:1-5 coinciding with the enforcement of Sunday observance through the union of church and state. At this time the law of God, in a special sense, will have been made void in the land and as a result the sins of the world will have reached unto Heaven. (Rev.18:5; R&H, Nov.5,1899) This event will be the signal for the loud cry to be proclaimed to all the world by faithful few who will have on the robe of Christ's righteousness obtained through faith in the merits of the blood that was shed for them. (F.W.106; Rom.3:25; Col.2:9; Eph.3:14,19; 1 John 1:3,4)

During the loud cry it will still be possible for individuals still in Laodicea to join the loud cry church if they accept the message which they had been prevented from hearing during the last call to the church. (E.W.271)

During the loud cry the faithful people of God will "grow up into Christ" until the full corn of His character is fully developed in the ear. (Mark 4:26-29; 1 T 353) This is the first seal.

At the end of the loud cry the great final test coinciding with the investigative judgment of the living will take place. (C.O.L.412; D.A.121,122; E.W.122,123) This is the death decree which is happening simultaneously with the investigative judgment of the living which is a work of examination of character as to who can receive the final seal as Jesus will be ready to make the final atonement. Those only who have the wedding garment on, the robe of Christ's righteousness, will receive this second and final seal. These will be reflecting the image of God fully. Their sins will then be removed from the sanctuary and placed upon the scapegoat. Then human probation will close and the faithful people of God will enter the time of Jacob's trouble during which the seven last plagues will be falling. The seven last plagues also mark the beginning of the great time of trouble for the impenitent world.

During the first plagues the wise, designated as the "144,000," will be sighing and crying and pleading to Jesus who is on the cloud, on His way to earth, (Rev.14:14-15) to thrust in His sickle. But before He does that (general resurrection) they must go through their Gethsemane. They must drink of the cup. During that time they will experience mental agony. (Jer.30:7; P.P.203)

Then at the time of the fifth plague, as the wicked are about to slay them, the rainbow from the Throne of God spans the heavens and hovers over them. As the wicked, throngs of evil men with slaughtering weapons, see the rainbow, they realize, too late, that they are on the wrong side and that they are forever lost. (G.C.635-636) They fall at the feet of the saints to acknowledge that God has loved them (A.W.L.F. 12) and then they all agree to turn against the false shepherds beginning at the house of God. There is bloodshed everywhere. This is the sixth plague as described in G.C.655,656. This is, obviously, the "angel of death" of the vision of Ezekiel 9. It is the drying up of the support the multitudes had been giving to the papacy up till this time. It is now that the king of the north comes to his end and there is none to help him. Rev.17:15; 16:12; Daniel 11:45. This is followed by the seventh last plague, the two special resurrections, the translation of the 144,000, the general resurrection, and the second coming of Christ in glory.

*None can become members of the people designated as the "144,000" unless they pass the great final test at the end of the loud cry to the world which will coincide with the investigative judgment of the living as Christ will be making the final atonement.