Historicist Only The People of the Revelation

[sparow]

Some alternate translations for ”was, and is not, and yet is”.

The beast that thou sawest, was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss, and he goeth into destruction.

That beast was once alive, but lives no longer; it is about to come up from the abyss and will go off to be destroyed.

These seem to relate to the topic.

A Biblical Worldview - Where Is the West and the United States in the Coming New World Order? - YouTube

A Biblical Worldview - What Vivek Ramaswamy Said Was Right - YouTube

 

[Jerryhuerta]

I rely on a failing memory; I am surprised to find Rev 17:8, identifies the actual beast and the chapter refers to the demise of the beast, not the image, and the demise of the woman that rides the beasts back. The woman is a Church and the beast is an institution. When I googled "was, and is not, and yet is" all google wanted to talk about was the word yet. The beast, the image and the false prophet are all present at the end.

You should read George McCready Price's "Time of the End." It's free online. The problem with futurists, preterists, and even a good number of so-called historicists is that they are pretty oblivious to history. Price does an excellent job of interpreting the first five kings in Rev 17:9-11 as Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, and the papacy from a historicist perspective. Price held, and I agree, it makes perfect sense that the fallen five must be from the future perspective of our time, which agrees perfectly with Daniel without making all the silly ad-hoc explanations of futurism, preterism, and traditional historicists. The papacy has been wounded since the rise of America, as America was instrumental in disestablishing the church, secularizing society, and enriching the merchants of the earth.

Where Price faltered, and others picked up, was his failure to see the logical deduction that the beast from the earth becomes the sixth king, and the image becomes the seventh that only lasts a short time before the papacy is fully healed. I'm not the only one who sees this interpretation, but it is as rare as gold and will ultimately vindicate historicism before Christ returns. Unfortunately, Price erroneously allegorizes the sixth king as an atheistic mindset, not unlike your attempt to allegorize the image as a mindset.

 

[WilliamLhk]

I don't take symbolic language literally, as you seem to be doing. The image of the beast is described as "is but isn't" which suggests to me that the image is not physical as is the beast, more like a mindset, a political/religious movement, like the spirit of anti-Christ.

The Beast that "was, and is not [present], and will ascend out of the Abyss" is "the King/Angel of the Abyss" of Revelation 9:11, which is not released until the Abyss is opened at the fifth trumpet. Rev. 9:1-2 This is a fallen angel, not a man. But angelic spirits, both good and evil, are manifested on earth in governments/kingdoms and in churches.

 

[sparow]

The Beast that "was, and is not [present], and will ascend out of the Abyss" is "the King/Angel of the Abyss" of Revelation 9:11, which is not released until the Abyss is opened at the fifth seal. Rev. 9:1-2 This is a fallen angel, not a man. But angelic spirits, both good and evil, are manifested on earth in governments/kingdoms and in churches.

Without disagreeing with everything you are saying, is that something you can prove or is it what you believe. I believe something different.

I believe the fifth and previous seals were opened at Christ's resurrection; the horses continue to ride; the Beast has emerged from the abyss on numerous occasions.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

The Beast that "was, and is not [present], and will ascend out of the Abyss" is "the King/Angel of the Abyss" of Revelation 9:11, which is not released until the Abyss is opened at the fifth seal. Rev. 9:1-2 This is a fallen angel, not a man. But angelic spirits, both good and evil, are manifested on earth in governments/kingdoms and in churches.

Again, historicists agree that the 42 months in Revelation 13:5 represent years, not days. Do you agree?

 

[WilliamLhk]

Again, historicists agree that the 42 months in Revelation 13:5 represent years, not days. Do you agree?

Yes, in the macro fulfillment. But there is also a micro fulfillment.

 

[sparow]

The Beast that "was, and is not [present], and will ascend out of the Abyss" is "the King/Angel of the Abyss" of Revelation 9:11, which is not released until the Abyss is opened at the fifth seal. Rev. 9:1-2 This is a fallen angel, not a man. But angelic spirits, both good and evil, are manifested on earth in governments/kingdoms and in churches.

Why I believe the fifth seal is open.


The books of Daniel and Revelation go together as a hand and glove. In Rev 6:9 when the fifth seal is open there is a phase:

How long, master, the Holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth.

Dan 8:13, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

1. …..Unto two thousand three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

This is from the KJV and I do not know how good the translation is; but the cleansing of the sanctuary is when the High Priest enters the Most Holy Place and sprinkles blood on the mercy seat.

I expect sprinkling Blood on the mercy seat to be symbolic at the end; it was Christ who brought Daniel's prophesies into the future as anti-types; everything that happens since Christ is an anti-type of something previous to Christ.

Christ was the daily sacrifice, that began the transgression of desolation, and the treading under foot has been current for 2024 years, and until time is shortened has about 250 – 300 years to run, until the year 6000 on the Jewish calendar.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

Yes, in the macro fulfillment. But there is also a micro fulfillment.

Why be so slippery? It’s 1260 years in the historicist interpretation leading to the conclusion the beast in Revelation 13 represents he papacy. Historicists do not hold the beast in Revelation 13 is a person, but a system with authority in history. Historicists hold the Roman Church is represented in Revelation 13. If you don’t agree with that, you aren’t supposed to be posting here. Will you try and slip out of affirming you’re a historicist again?

Now is the beast in Revelation 13 the papacy?

 

[Jerryhuerta]

I believe the fifth and previous seals were opened at Christ's resurrection; the horses continue to ride; the Beast has emerged from the abyss on numerous occasions.

Your view is the traditional historicist view, which doesn’t hold up under scrutiny. In Revelation 4:1, John receives visions of future events after hearing Christ's trumpet-like voice,

After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. (Revelation 4:1)​

As I stated concerning Revelation 17, John is taken to the future to see events from the perspective of the time of the last church era, symbolized by the church in Laodicea. All the letters in chapters 2 and 3 start with Christ’s trumpet-like voice, just like the blowing of the trumpets upon the new moons beginning every month between the spring and autumnal festivals. The symbolism maintains Revelation 4:1 represents the antitype of Rosh Hashanah, the festival of the trumpets, and the horse riders represent the last judgment or trial upon the Church by God’s locust army, revealed in Joel,

Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand… a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them. The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run. (Joel 2:1-4)​

Verse 25 affirms the horsemen are God’s locust army sent by God on the antitypical day of Rosh Hashanah to punish His people because of their apostasy. The relief commences with His people’s repentance in Joel 2:15, the antitypical Day of Atonement,

Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly: Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet. Let the priests, the ministers of the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O LORD, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people, Where is their God? Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity his people. (Joel 2:15-18)​

Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubile to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land. (Leviticus 25:9)​

Therefore, the "things which must be hereafter" pertain to the Laodicean era rather than a return to the first advent. The books of Joel and Amos in the Bible illustrate this recurring pattern of judgment in the house of God. When his people are disobedient, God punishes them by allowing their enemies, such as Babylon, to conquer them. In Revelation, this disobedience is marked by the letter to Sardis and culminates with the Laodicean era.

The progression of the judgment of the saints to their enemies is illustrated by the time of the seven trumpets, the seventh seal. The seven trumpets are prefaced by the “prayers of the saints” ascending before God, which fills the censer “with fire of the altar” that is cast down to the earth in fulfillment of “the day” in which “every man’s work shall be made manifest” in 1 Corinthians 3:13 (Revelation 8:1-5). Further evidence is in the woes “to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!”

 

[sparow]

Your view is the traditional historicist view, which doesn’t hold up under scrutiny. In Revelation 4:1, John receives visions of future events after hearing Christ's trumpet-like voice,

After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. (Revelation 4:1)​

As I stated concerning Revelation 17, John is taken to the future to see events from the perspective of the time of the last church era, symbolized by the church in Laodicea. All the letters in chapters 2 and 3 start with Christ’s trumpet-like voice, just like the blowing of the trumpets upon the new moons beginning every month between the spring and autumnal festivals. The symbolism maintains Revelation 4:1 represents the antitype of Rosh Hashanah, the festival of the trumpets, and the horse riders represent the last judgment or trial upon the Church by God’s locust army, revealed in Joel,

Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand… a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them. The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run. (Joel 2:1-4)​

Verse 25 affirms the horsemen are God’s locust army sent by God on the antitypical day of Rosh Hashanah to punish His people because of their apostasy. The relief commences with His people’s repentance in Joel 2:15, the antitypical Day of Atonement,

Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly: Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet. Let the priests, the ministers of the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O LORD, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people, Where is their God? Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity his people. (Joel 2:15-18)​

Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubile to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land. (Leviticus 25:9)​

Therefore, the "things which must be hereafter" pertain to the Laodicean era rather than a return to the first advent. The books of Joel and Amos in the Bible illustrate this recurring pattern of judgment in the house of God. When his people are disobedient, God punishes them by allowing their enemies, such as Babylon, to conquer them. In Revelation, this disobedience is marked by the letter to Sardis and culminates with the Laodicean era.

The progression of the judgment of the saints to their enemies is illustrated by the time of the seven trumpets, the seventh seal. The seven trumpets are prefaced by the “prayers of the saints” ascending before God, which fills the censer “with fire of the altar” that is cast down to the earth in fulfillment of “the day” in which “every man’s work shall be made manifest” in 1 Corinthians 3:13 (Revelation 8:1-5). Further evidence is in the woes “to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!”

I cannot agree with your treatment of Joel which describes the great and terrible day of the lord, a smaller version of Revelation, or which is repeated in Revelation. To learn of the Horse of the Apocalypse, the horses and riders are defined typically in Zechariah ch. 1 and specifically assigned in Rev. I allow that Israel and Judah may go into captivity again before the return of Christ.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

I cannot agree with your treatment of Joel which describes the great and terrible day of the lord, a smaller version of Revelation, or which is repeated in Revelation. To learn of the Horse of the Apocalypse, the horses and riders are defined typically in Zechariah ch. 1 and specifically assigned in Rev. I allow that Israel and Judah may go into captivity again before the return of Christ.

Believe as you want, but all the scriptures are profitable for doctrine, not to exclude Joel and Amos, in interpreting the Revelation. Moreover, developmental guidelines cannot be ignored.

The fifth seal indicates Christ’s mediation since he advocates for those who are slain for the word of God after the cross. Its association with the impending judgment upon those who obey not the gospel also confirms its last days’ connection (1 Peter 4:17). By reason, the little season cannot be determined as the entire time between the two advents but must represent the final and most severe test upon the house of God. Both the church eras of Sardis and Philadelphia anticipate this judgment that prepares the reader for what follows in the throne scene of chapters 4-5, the era of Laodicea.

There is more extraordinary evidence to maintain that the developmental guidelines do not pertain strictly to the throne scene but to what follows up to the last trumpet in chapter 11, Christ’s return. Only then, in chapter 12, is there a break in the linear narration to affirm recapitulation. The symbolism and narration of the judgment in Revelation 6-11 correspond to the last and highest manifestation of God’s judgment. It follows that the seven seals are phenomena contained in the era of the last church, the seven trumpets in the last seal, and the seven vials in the last trumpet.

 

[sparow]

Believe as you want, but all the scriptures are profitable for doctrine, not to exclude Joel and Amos, in interpreting the Revelation. Moreover, developmental guidelines cannot be ignored.

The fifth seal indicates Christ’s mediation since he advocates for those who are slain for the word of God after the cross. Its association with the impending judgment upon those who obey not the gospel also confirms its last days’ connection (1 Peter 4:17). By reason, the little season cannot be determined as the entire time between the two advents but must represent the final and most severe test upon the house of God. Both the church eras of Sardis and Philadelphia anticipate this judgment that prepares the reader for what follows in the throne scene of chapters 4-5, the era of Laodicea.

There is more extraordinary evidence to maintain that the developmental guidelines do not pertain strictly to the throne scene but to what follows up to the last trumpet in chapter 11, Christ’s return. Only then, in chapter 12, is there a break in the linear narration to affirm recapitulation. The symbolism and narration of the judgment in Revelation 6-11 correspond to the last and highest manifestation of God’s judgment. It follows that the seven seals are phenomena contained in the era of the last church, the seven trumpets in the last seal, and the seven vials in the last trumpet.

All of the Prophets are as applicable to the second coming as they were for the first coming. You read a different story in Joel than me; Christ does not advocate for the slain, he avenges their blood. I have not heard of developmental guidelines.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

All of the Prophets are as applicable to the second coming as they were for the first coming. You read a different story in Joel than me; Christ does not advocate for the slain, he avenges their blood. I have not heard of developmental guidelines.

I garner a lot of subtleties in scripture that are overlooked by the typical traditional historicists. It’s what comes of dedicating one’s life to finding the truth and building on the shoulders of sound exegesis in the past, which is progressive revelation. Eschatology is not a hobby for me. I’m looking into publishing my second book, and several companies are vying to publish it. I give Yahweh the credit.

The traditionalist perception that the septets of the seals, trumpets, and vials fold over themselves is untenable when one gives the developmental guidelines their proper weight. The traditionalists agree the seven churches are seven eras of the Church. Still, they ignore the developmental guideline in Revelation 4:1 that we are shown “things which must be hereafter.” We are shown things hereafter what? Christ had just shown John the judgments of the seven churches, which progressive revelation has revealed are seven periods or eras in this age. When proper attention is placed on Christ’s guidance in 4:1, the things that must be hereafter would not be events at the first advent but events occurring during the last church era of Laodicea.

In crediting the guideline, the throne scene parallels the one in Daniel 7. It represents entering the time the sanctuary is cleansed, judgment heralded by the sound of a trumpet, Christ’s voice, and warnings in Sardis and Philadelphia. Recognizing the guidelines maintains the judgments in Revelation 6-11 represent the last and highest manifestation of God’s judgment. It follows that the seven seals are:

• Phenomena contained in the era of the last Church
• The seven trumpets in the last seal
• The seven vials in the last trumpet

Furthermore, historicists such as George McCready Price have built upon past and proper exegesis to develop the historicist renderings, listening to Yahweh for further revelation. It is men like Price that I researched to conclude that John’s perspective is from his future, our time, the Laodicean era, which informs us that the sixth king in chapter 17 reigns in our time. I cite other historicist authors in my work who substantiate that the throne scene in Revelation 4-5 does not depict Christ’s ascension but his entering the Most Holy to conduct the highest judgment, which is the antitype of the autumnal festivals in the Hebrew cultus.

As I said, eschatology is not a hobby with me. I use forums like this to challenge traditionalist renderings. My work is vindicated when I see that these challenges are ignored, and the only response is to reiterate past and untenable rendering. The futurists and preterists are even worse about it; their response is to ignore the challenges completely and spew their alternate versions of the truth.

 

[WilliamLhk]

Why be so slippery? It’s 1260 years in the historicist interpretation leading to the conclusion the beast in Revelation 13 represents he papacy. Historicists do not hold the beast in Revelation 13 is a person, but a system with authority in history. Historicists hold the Roman Church is represented in Revelation 13. If you don’t agree with that, you aren’t supposed to be posting here. Will you try and slip out of affirming you’re a historicist again?

Now is the beast in Revelation 13 the papacy?

" Debated features of the Reformation historicist interpretations were the identification of: the antichrist (1 and 2 John); the Beasts of Revelation 13; the Man of Sin (or Man of Lawlessness) in 2 Thessalonians 2; the "Little horn" of Daniel 7 and 8, and the harlot of Babylon (Revelation 17). " Historicism (Christianity) - Wikipedia

Historicist views have varied from one writer and denomination to another over the centuries. Even now, SDAs and JWs teach historicist views, which do not always agree with each other.

If you want to pre-title this topic "Huerta's Historicist Views only," then you have a complaint. But you didn't, so you don't honestly have a complaint, because your historicism is not the only one, not by a long shot. And it never was.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

" Debated features of the Reformation historicist interpretations were the identification of: the antichrist (1 and 2 John); the Beasts of Revelation 13; the Man of Sin (or Man of Lawlessness) in 2 Thessalonians 2; the "Little horn" of Daniel 7 and 8, and the harlot of Babylon (Revelation 17). " Historicism (Christianity) - Wikipedia

Historicist views have varied from one writer and denomination to another over the centuries. Even now, SDAs and JWs teach historicist views, which do not always agree with each other.

If you want to pre-title this topic "Huerta's Historicist Views only," then you have a complaint. But you didn't, so you don't honestly have a complaint, because your historicism is not the only one, not by a long shot. And it never was.

Again, this is a slippery response. If the different schools of eschatology couldn’t be defined, then the statements of purpose are pointless. You’re saying the forum owners don’t know there is no definition of historicism. That is not to say there aren’t disagreements over the subtleties. Still, there are disagreements over the subtleties of futurism and preterism also. I’m here to debate the subtleties with other historicists, not the foundations with futurists or preterists, so I expect your declaration of the foundations before we go any further.

Your post is nonsense and an attempt to flaunt the rules; you’re above the rules or have the contemporary woke mentality that rules can be redefined to suit ourselves. In the sentence above the citation from Wiki that you posted, it says:

Rather than expecting a single antichrist to rule the earth during a future Tribulation period, Luther, John Calvin and other Protestant reformers saw the antichrist as a present feature in the world of their time, fulfilled in the papacy. Historicism (Christianity) - Wikipedia​

Then, the article contradicts itself and says there is debate over the same issue. That’s confusion and what makes Wiki a worldly and unreliable source. The definition of the foundation of historicism is the day-for-a-year method of deciphering prophecy, which leads to the revelation the papacy is the antichrist or the little horn in Daniel.

When a proper investigation is pursued, a meaningful definition of historicism is attainable, which you're trying to circumvent. And if one couldn’t find a meaningful definition, the moderators couldn’t uphold the statement of purpose rules. Obviously, to those with eyes that see and ears that listen, the former is correct, and you are wrong.

Now again, is the beast in Revelation 13 the papacy in agreement with the day-for-year method of interpretation?

 

[WilliamLhk]

Again, this is a slippery response. If the different schools of eschatology couldn’t be defined, then the statements of purpose are pointless. You’re saying the forum owners don’t know there is no definition of historicism.

If the forum owners have provided a precise definition of historicism, I haven't found it, and I have looked. Please show me where it is. And we can pick it up from there.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

If the forum owners have provided a precise definition of historicism, I haven't found it, and I have looked. Please show me where it is. And we can pick it up from there.

The Mod already dealt with this on the very first page because of the rule being violated, and I quote:

Folks, this thread is tagged Historicist Only. That means that only those who hold to the Historicist view of Revelation should post in this thread. If you are unaware of what the Historicist view is, then you are likely not an Historicist. Here is a source: (emphasis mine) Historicist Only - The People of the Revelation​

She deleted the offenders’ posts and cited Wiki, which says in the second paragraph:

One of the most influential aspects of the early Protestant historicist paradigm was the assertion that scriptural identifiers of the Antichrist were matched only by the institution of the Papacy. Particular significance and concern were the Papal claims of authority over the Church through Apostolic Succession, and the State through the Divine Right of Kings. When the Papacy aspires to exercise authority beyond its religious realm into civil affairs, on account of the Papal claim to be the Vicar of Christ, then the institution was fulfilling the more perilous biblical indicators of the Antichrist. Martin Luther wrote this view into the Smalcald Articles of 1537; this view was not novel and had been leveled at various popes throughout the centuries, even by Roman Catholic saints. (emphasis mine) Historicist interpretations of the Book of Revelation - Wikipedia​

Maybe you should have read the thread before posting; it’s not long. And even if Wiki isn’t the best source, it’s sufficient. I have about 40 years of studying the subject, making me more of an authority on it than you are if you resort to Wiki. And it isn’t the forum's responsibility to educate you.

Now again, is the beast in Revelation 13 the papacy in agreement with the day-for-year method of interpretation?

 

[sparow]

I garner a lot of subtleties in scripture that are overlooked by the typical traditional historicists. It’s what comes of dedicating one’s life to finding the truth and building on the shoulders of sound exegesis in the past, which is progressive revelation. Eschatology is not a hobby for me. I’m looking into publishing my second book, and several companies are vying to publish it. I give Yahweh the credit.

The traditionalist perception that the septets of the seals, trumpets, and vials fold over themselves is untenable when one gives the developmental guidelines their proper weight. The traditionalists agree the seven churches are seven eras of the Church. Still, they ignore the developmental guideline in Revelation 4:1 that we are shown “things which must be hereafter.” We are shown things hereafter what? Christ had just shown John the judgments of the seven churches, which progressive revelation has revealed are seven periods or eras in this age. When proper attention is placed on Christ’s guidance in 4:1, the things that must be hereafter would not be events at the first advent but events occurring during the last church era of Laodicea.

In crediting the guideline, the throne scene parallels the one in Daniel 7. It represents entering the time the sanctuary is cleansed, judgment heralded by the sound of a trumpet, Christ’s voice, and warnings in Sardis and Philadelphia. Recognizing the guidelines maintains the judgments in Revelation 6-11 represent the last and highest manifestation of God’s judgment. It follows that the seven seals are:

• Phenomena contained in the era of the last Church
• The seven trumpets in the last seal
• The seven vials in the last trumpet

Furthermore, historicists such as George McCready Price have built upon past and proper exegesis to develop the historicist renderings, listening to Yahweh for further revelation. It is men like Price that I researched to conclude that John’s perspective is from his future, our time, the Laodicean era, which informs us that the sixth king in chapter 17 reigns in our time. I cite other historicist authors in my work who substantiate that the throne scene in Revelation 4-5 does not depict Christ’s ascension but his entering the Most Holy to conduct the highest judgment, which is the antitype of the autumnal festivals in the Hebrew cultus.

As I said, eschatology is not a hobby with me. I use forums like this to challenge traditionalist renderings. My work is vindicated when I see that these challenges are ignored, and the only response is to reiterate past and untenable rendering. The futurists and preterists are even worse about it; their response is to ignore the challenges completely and spew their alternate versions of the truth.

Traditionally, the Bible interprets itself, or if you like, God interprets it. I have noticed things in Rev 4 that I have not noticed before. The main thing about Revelation is its purpose; a specific interpretation by men, does not serve that purpose.

 

[Jerryhuerta]

Traditionally, the Bible interprets itself, or if you like, God interprets it. I have noticed things in Rev 4 that I have not noticed before. The main thing about Revelation is its purpose; a specific interpretation by men, does not serve that purpose.

Principles serve men in interpreting scripture, principles like the day-for-a-year found in God’s word or transcendence.

We are told the purpose of Revelation in Chapter 1, which isn’t different from any other part of the Bible.

Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. (Revelation 1:3)​

The purpose of Revelation is to bless those who “keep those things which are written therein.” How can we keep what is written in Revelation unless the admonition or warning against the pursuit of wealth and material goods pertains to us?

Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked. (Revelation 3:17)​

The preterist or futurists may pay lip service to the admonition, but they do not grasp that the only way that it pertains to us is from a historicist’s perception. The circumstance has its greatest fulfillment in a rich world, increased with goods, which history affirms as our modern era with the rise of the merchants.

And how did the merchants rise in modern times? It happened when apostate Protestantism held intercourse with the princes of the earth to cast off the yoke of the papacy and secularized society.

And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven… And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen… For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. (Revelation 18:1-3)​

According to history, apostate Protestantism fulfilled the harlot Babylon during the time of Sardis, which vindicates historicism and exposes the falsehood of futurism and preterism.

 

[sparow]

Principles serve men in interpreting scripture, principles like the day-for-a-year found in God’s word or transcendence.

We are told the purpose of Revelation in Chapter 1, which isn’t different from any other part of the Bible.

Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. (Revelation 1:3)​

The purpose of Revelation is to bless those who “keep those things which are written therein.” How can we keep what is written in Revelation unless the admonition or warning against the pursuit of wealth and material goods pertains to us?

Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked. (Revelation 3:17)​

The preterist or futurists may pay lip service to the admonition, but they do not grasp that the only way that it pertains to us is from a historicist’s perception. The circumstance has its greatest fulfillment in a rich world, increased with goods, which history affirms as our modern era with the rise of the merchants.

And how did the merchants rise in modern times? It happened when apostate Protestantism held intercourse with the princes of the earth to cast off the yoke of the papacy and secularized society.

And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven… And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen… For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. (Revelation 18:1-3)​

According to history, apostate Protestantism fulfilled the harlot Babylon during the time of Sardis, which vindicates historicism and exposes the falsehood of futurism and preterism.

All roads lead to Rome; today Rome should be considered globalism and the power behind that. One would need an expensive surgical kit to separate the Papacy from the beast, but the Papacy is Jezebel riding the beast, others keeping Sunday are daughters of Jezebel also riding the beast.

Futurism and Preterism deny Christ and the power thereof.