The 10 Horns of Revelation 17:12-14

[Davy]

Did you miss the part earlier where I said direct revelation also likely happened, or are you purposefully leaving that part out like you cut off summerville's post? Either way, it seems kind of scummy.

instead of playing the bleeding harp for summerville in his defense, you might want to consider exactly what he said in that post, in the first paragraph. You can't imply a negative in one paragraph, and then claim the next paragraph erases that negative.

 

[summerville]

instead of playing the bleeding harp for summerville in his defense, you might want to consider exactly what he said in that post, in the first paragraph. You can't imply a negative in one paragraph, and then claim the next paragraph erases that negative.

i'm a grandmother NOT a "he".

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

What? There are no new... prophets chosen by God today, and I certainly do not claim to be one of them. So why don't you quit allowing the devil to speak through you in trying to tempt me?

I said

Do modern pastors not teach on behalf of their own 'observations' of God's word, without supernatural intervention? If not, maybe you'd like to take a crack at explaining why the church is shattered into so many little pieces what with the different doctrines and even different biblical canons. I'm sure you could even make it onto the national news if you can tell us which one is really the 'true' church :^D

To which you replied

No, modern pastors that say God told them where to buy a car, and or what soap to use, are NOT speaking by inspiration via The Holy Spirit.

Not only did you make a sweeping generalization about all modern-day pastors, you created a very sticky situation for yourself; Modern pastors are our modern spiritual 'leaders' in a sense. They study theology, spread the gospel and act almost like biblical elders and deacons for churches. They are spiritual authorities. If they are not dependable, as you claim they are not speaking via inspiration of the Holy spirit...you are either purposefully or indirectly inferring that unless one is speaking via The Holy Spirit, they are apparently not spiritual authority. Don't know if this was intentional, but that's how you're coming across.

My point was this; if Holy Inspiration(as I'll call it)is necessary to give God-ordained truth, you need to demonstrate to me that you are speaking via the Holy Spirit and that you yourself are not a false prophet. Which you just admitted you can't do...so I have no reason to believe you're more right over uncle billy down the road.

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

instead of playing the bleeding harp for summerville in his defense, you might want to consider exactly what he said in that post, in the first paragraph. You can't imply a negative in one paragraph, and then claim the next paragraph erases that negative.

I did. All you've done so far is cherry-pick out of context, twist words and misquote people to push a narrative. Oh yeah, and you also accused me of allowing the devil to speak through me because I exercise critical thinking.

 

[summerville]

I am out of this thread (ball game) as it is my opinion you are playing in left field

The Torah didn't take a final shape until 200 BC.

 

[Davy]

I said


To which you replied


Not only did you make a sweeping generalization about all modern-day pastors, you created a very sticky situation for yourself; Modern pastors are our modern spiritual 'leaders' in a sense. They study theology, spread the gospel and act almost like biblical elders and deacons for churches. They are spiritual authorities. If they are not dependable, as you claim they are not speaking via inspiration of the Holy spirit...you are either purposefully or indirectly inferring that unless one is speaking via The Holy Spirit, they are apparently not spiritual authority. Don't know if this was intentional, but that's how you're coming across.

My point was this; if Holy Inspiration(as I'll call it)is necessary to give God-ordained truth, you need to demonstrate to me that you are speaking via the Holy Spirit and that you yourself are not a false prophet. Which you just admitted you can't do...so I have no reason to believe you're more right over uncle billy down the road.

You are the one that made the 'sweeping generalization', which was ignorant, so I gave you an answer that best fit such an ignorant question:

you said to me:

So...can you please prophesize something to prove that the Holy Spirit is speaking through you right now and that you know better than the rest of us? That would REALLY make you a modern-day wonder(even though the Pentecostals and charismatic movement kind of beat you to the punch)

 

[Davy]

I did. All you've done so far is cherry-pick out of context, twist words and misquote people to push a narrative. Oh yeah, and you also accused me of allowing the devil to speak through me because I exercise critical thinking.

All you've done is show disrespect and support an undefensible cause.

 

[Davy]

i'm a grandmother NOT a "he".

I tend to see everyone here that doesn't have a picture, or doesn't declare either way as a male. Your avatar gives not clue, your fault, not mine, so don't expect an apology.

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

You are the one that made the 'sweeping generalization', which was ignorant, so I gave you an answer that best fit such an ignorant question:

you said to me:

Generalization where?

Prophesizing, healing and speaking in tongues are so common in Pentecostal beliefs, I'd almost call it a core aspect of their denomination. It was a sarcastic remark since you're not the first person to insinuate one needs some kind of direct revelation from God to speak truths.

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

All you've done is show disrespect and support an undefensible cause.

Says the one who started the whole thing by being obnoxious, stubborn and disrespectful.

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

I tend to see everyone here that doesn't have a picture, or doesn't declare either way as a male. Your avatar gives not clue, your fault, not mine, so don't expect an apology.

They/them exist.

 

[summerville]

All you've done is show disrespect and support an undefensible cause.

What cause is undefensible?

 

[summerville]

I tend to see everyone here that doesn't have a picture, or doesn't declare either way as a male. Your avatar gives not clue, your fault, not mine, so don't expect an apology.

My avatar is female in a skirt.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Friendly reminder that;

1) The bible's contents are infallible and God-breathed; the interpretations, compilations and translations may not always be thanks to VERY fallible mankind.

2) Men have and will continue to try and get away with as much as possible to suit their narrative, as the Gospel has been perverted into a tool used for power(organized religion)rather than Faith many times...and will continue to do so. Need I remind you all that the KJV was written with a political bias, Martin Luther almost removed several beloved books in the Bible that disagreed with his view(God bless him for not following through) and the Catholic church once executed a man(William Tyndale)for translation the bible so people could read the scripture themselves. That's not even including the gnostic gospels or the Christians who believe Paul(of all people)is a false apostle.

3) Not all denominations even share the same biblical canon. We, the Protestant group, are actually missing quite a few books that are included in Orthodox and Catholic Scripture.

4) If the bible clashes with history, something is off. Either our interpretations are wrong, our translations are wrong--something is wrong because God is not the author of confusion. Y'all sometimes act like anything outside of the bible(even if it's historical) is 'secular'. Do you not think God owns every part of our history and our very being? He created our reality; it is one of the best measuring tools, as it is unchanging and cannot be influenced by man.

5) If you know God, you don't need confusion OT prophecies and a literal reading of parts of scripture to believe in his Sovereignty. His handiwork and influence are visible everywhere, and there are many things science and optimistic nihilism will never be able to explain.

6) Adding to the previous point, it is my personal opinion that even when you feel like you could be wrong and nothing makes any logical sense, having Faith in God still is a true show of faith. It's easy to be a believer when everyone is agreeing with you and you believe you've got God and religion all figured out...but the life of a Christian is a balancing act; the constant struggle and 'running the race' as Paul said.

Not trying to be disagreeable to what you said. But what I said is fact. There is no evidence as far as the science surrounding ancient manuscripts and archeology that what he said is true. The raw data that exists says the opposite. His statement just ignorant political talk. It’s why the left got the Bible and surrounding subjects removed from the public schools 50 years ago. So people can make ignorant statements like that and not be looked upon by the culture as stupid and wicked.

 

[summerville]

Not trying to be disagreeable to what you said. But what I said is fact. There is no evidence as far as the science surrounding ancient manuscripts and archeology that what he said is true. The raw data that exists says the opposite. His statement just ignorant political talk. It’s why the left got the Bible and surrounding subjects removed from the public schools 50 years ago. So people can make ignorant statements like that and not be looked upon by the culture as stupid and wicked.

Bible was an elective course in my school 60 years ago. It wasn't preaching.. It was treated as literature. Where did you go to school/

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

Not trying to be disagreeable to what you said. But what I said is fact. There is no evidence as far as the science surrounding ancient manuscripts and archeology that what he said is true. The raw data that exists says the opposite. His statement just ignorant political talk. It’s why the left got the Bible and surrounding subjects removed from the public schools 50 years ago. So people can make ignorant statements like that and not be looked upon by the culture as stupid and wicked.

Citations needed.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Bible was an elective course in my school 60 years ago. It wasn't preaching.. It was treated as literature. Where did you go to school/

Not even an elective course in any public school I attended.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Citations needed.

Where are yours?

 

[summerville]

Not even an elective course in any public school I attended.

Did you have access to a Church and Sunday school?

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

Where are yours?

I asked first, thanks. Your exact words were "The raw data that exists says the opposite"; I'm asking to see this 'raw data'. Because the last time I checked, we can't even historically confirm the existence of Moses--or the Jews he rescued from Egypt, let alone accurate, specific prophecies. The only ones we have remotely any proof for are the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

In any case, I feel as though I have more grounds to be asking about this than you do. I for one have been privy to how often Christians will manipulate the truth to make it seem like they have 'facts', and I am very leery and distrustful of supposed 'evidence' either historical or scientific unless I'm given citations from sources I can look over myself.

A common belief (faith) amoung secularists. No historical data to verify it though.

Easiest way to figure out who the ten emperors of the Roman Empire were. Start at the end of the Roman Empire. 1453 ad. Lop of 1280 years. That is the number given in Daniel regarding the beginning of the reign of that 11th emperor and given 5 more time in Revelation in relationship to the empire. That brings you to 193 ad. The first year of the reign of Septimious Severes. Then check out if he precisely fulfilled the prophecy about that 11th emperor. Not just in a sort of could apply to anyone way. If he PRECISELY FULFILLED that prophecy. If so. Then the ten before him are the ten emperors.

Not trying to be disagreeable to what you said. But what I said is fact. There is no evidence as far as the science surrounding ancient manuscripts and archeology that what he said is true. The raw data that exists says the opposite. His statement just ignorant political talk. It’s why the left got the Bible and surrounding subjects removed from the public schools 50 years ago. So people can make ignorant statements like that and not be looked upon by the culture as stupid and wicked.

So far, you've given us some weird revelations math with no detailed explanation of why/how it works, ad hominem about 'secularism' and making claims about historical data(that you can't even provide yourself)and injecting politics to try and push the argument in your favor.

It's funny that people are so comfortable pointing the finger at 'the nAsTy LibErALs' and secularism, thinking that they're so much worse than we are yet they refuse to take a look at what a mess the church has become. We're a totally divided kingdom--people who ask the 'wrong' questions are scrutinized and have their faith questioned, people in the past and even now use the bible in order to control others and do terrible things and get away with it, many of us act kind and sweet until someone disagrees with us and don't even get me started on the snobbish elitism that takes place in and out of the churches. Last time I checked, forcing someone to abide by Christian values and believe in God 'or else' is not a very biblical or loving concept. Most will only show love to someone that is already 'Christian-like', and just turn everything else into an 'us vs them' scenario.

Oh yeah, and then we've got the Christians that think they're too education on the bible to be wrong about anything and feel totally fine playing mini-God passing judgment onto others and claiming what their intentions are for them.

Yeah, it's not too surprising satan has such a great grasp on people these days. We already do half of his job for him by being such arrogant hypocrites; he infiltrated the church long ago, some people were just too prideful to acknowledge it when he slipped in through the back door.