Spiritual Restaurants..food Or Poison?

[pinetree]

What part of america are you in? This country is so infested with sin and it has very little if anything to do with legalism.

Half of the people don't believe, don't care, and think we are strange for believing.
The other half believe but most of them don't go to church or do anything, and they don't care, and they think we are strange.
The ones that do goto church, most of them habitually sin, and they don't care.

I'm sure their are people running around this country saying "Oh dear, I've just lost my salvation, that's the 3rd time today."
But I've never seen any.

Welcome to america, the land of the selfish and self centered.
You can't have a mindset of legalism when you're selfish.
Here we have doctors, plenty of food, plenty of work, plenty of entertainment, not much to call on God for when you're talking about the flesh.

Shouldn't you be preaching this stuff to the catholic sections?
I don't see anyone here being legalistic.

Good morning lucky 7...

I am not talking about the world.

Perhaps a definition from you,about what you think legalism is would be helpful.

This way we have a foundation for our discussion.

Thanks...

 

[nephilimiyr]

I believe it is so important to know who we are in Him. I was set free by that knowledge (thank you Lord!)

But some people seem to think that when others talk about who they are in Christ, they are being arrogant, or they think we think we can just do whatever we want. NOT TRUE!

When you know who you are in Christ, you see and understand that it is all about Him and it gives you a confidence. Confidence that my righteousness is not up to me. Thank God it's not! I am free to boldy proclaim that I am the righteousness of God THROUGH CHRIST JESUS! I would be nothing without Him. So I don't have to 'try' to be good. The burden is lifted off of me.

Bless you map4 because you nailed it!

It's not that we are arrogant but that we are confident, and not in ourselves but confident in him who has the power to change us from the inside out. Alot of us have strived to do this ourselves but have failed miserably. I lived a life of guilt because of this failure, but what I could not do the Holy Spirit did. Those of us with this understanding who have seen victory over certain sins do not glory in the fact that we have overcome, that because of ourselves we have seen victory, no. We are not arrogant to give any of the credit to ourselves but we give the Holy Spirit all of the glory, which is to say all of the credit, because we know that when we tried we failed. It was only when we allowed the Holy Spirit to work and do the changing that we actually saw results.

I mean yeah, there are ways for us to stop sin in our lives. If your left hand causes you to sin, cut it off; if your eyes causes you to sin, cut them out. But sin does not come from the outside. If you cut those things out you still have the problem inside you because what makes a person unclean comes from within, that is deep within your soul. You have to remove that from you. That does take some effort because it requires trust in the Holy Spirit that he will then take over. My problem, and sometimes still is is that I didn't place my trust in him. I kept wanting to do it all because I never felt comfortable letting anyone, even the Holy Spirit, take control.

I could ramble on and on and on because there is just so much to say about this. Suffice it to say, we are his workmanship. The job is not ours. Actually the job we have, which is at first very hard to do, is to simply let go, surrender yourself to him and He will do the work. It's a simple message but not easy to do. People usually find just how big there ego and pride is and those things can be very hard to get rid of.

I wanted to answer to your whole post map4 but ended up rambling on. I do want you to know that I agree with you totally and am glad you said it!

 

[Seeking Him]

I have attended the same church for many years. So I don't have first hand knowledge of what is taught by other pastors. Other than what I read or hear on the radio, tv, etc. (which I don't really listen to much). But, judging by friends and family who attend other churches, it seems that there is not enough teaching on who we are in Christ.
I believe it is so important to know who we are in Him. I was set free by that knowledge (thank you Lord!)

But some people seem to think that when others talk about who they are in Christ, they are being arrogant, or they think we think we can just do whatever we want. NOT TRUE!

When you know who you are in Christ, you see and understand that it is all about Him and it gives you a confidence. Confidence that my righteousness is not up to me. Thank God it's not! I am free to boldy proclaim that I am the righteousness of God THROUGH CHRIST JESUS! I would be nothing without Him. So I don't have to 'try' to be good. The burden is lifted off of me.

Now, does that mean that I can live any old way? NO! Sin is still sin and we should do what we know to do or not do. It is our motive behind doing the right thing or not doing the wrong thing that matters. It is because I want to please my Father! Just like I always wanted to please my earthly father.
The difference is, now, when I do sin, I don't condemn myself like I used to. Sure, I'm sorry that I did 'whatever'. But I don't condemn myself because it is not my righteousness that makes me who I am, it is His righteousness. And when I do sin, the Holy Spirit convicts me of righteousness. He reminds me that my salvation does not hinder on whether I sin or not. Because my sins are forgiven. They are under the blood of Jesus. There is such freedom in that.
I'm not saying that one should just go on sinning or continue in sin just because 'we can'. Not at all. But there are things we all struggle with. Our flesh is at war with our spirit.
Paul said in Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing god dewlls; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.
Then he goes on in Rom. 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus has mde me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom. 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh SET THEIR MINDS on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
Where is your mind? Do you dwell on your flesh, in which nothing good dwells, or is your mind on things above?
Rom 8:10-11 And if Christ is in you, THE BODY IS DEAD BECAUSE OF SIN, BUT THE SPIRIT IS LIFE BECAUSE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. 11. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead WILL ALSO GIVE LIFE TO YOUR MORTAL BODIES THROUGH HIS SPIRIT WHO DWELLS IN YOU.

Sin does not have dominion over us. We are children of the most High God.
Let your spirit man rise up and take dominion over your flesh. Set your mind on things above and don't dwell on what you do wrong. DON'T CONDEMN YOURSELVES! Let the Holy Spirit pick you up and set you back on the right course. Let Him 'convict you of righteousness in Christ Jesus'.

As long as we are in these fleshy bodies, there is a war. I don't mind if a preacher teaches about sin. Sometimes it is needed. AS LONG AS he goes on to tell the WHOLE truth. Don't stop at the sin in our lives, we know when we sin...tell the truth of how to overcome it. Don't beat people up for something God knows we struggle with. Tell them they are overcomers through Christ Jesus.

One more point...do we have to suffer consequences for sin? I think sometimes we will. Even though our sins are forgiven, there may be consequences we have to deal with. That is no different than we are with our own children. When they do wrong, we forgive them. Sometimes we show mercy. But sometimes they have to 'suffer the consequences' of their actions.
I don't mean we have to 'pay for what we did' because Jesus paid the penalty of our sins. But sometimes what we do cause things to be set in motion. Especially when others are involved.
So don't think I have a 'flippant' attitude about sin. I just know that I am redeemed from the wages of it.

I think you spoke thr crux of the matter. When we hear about sin, we need to hear the answer to it. Like you said, we need to hear the whole truth! The ministry of the Spirit flowing from teachers, ministering grace to us. What is that scripture, stewards of the grace of God. If the sermons focused on the victory won by Christ and how to attain it by God's power, rather than talking about sin for an hour, I think more people would be set free.

 

[KleinerApfel]

I remember going through an extended period of personal unworthiness, so much so that I left “full-time” ministry and went into business for thirteen years (it takes some people longer to heal than others, I suppose). What I did not do (and, looking back on it, I am glad I didn’t), is become a church drop-out. I was so bitter in spirit that for the entire duration of my slow healing, I continually took note of the wounds in fellow church-members. It was my way, I think, of redirecting attention away from my wounds. But among all the imagined “hypocrites”, I found some true-blue friends who helped me through the rough places and bore with my bad attitude to the point I (at least, I hope I have) found healing.

Had I attempted this on my own, without the church I was a member of (flawed though it may have been), I do not think I would have ever found the healing I needed.

And, yes, the teaching of the church was often “toxic” at times but I discovered God’s immune system in me did not allow me to be poisoned. For it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure (Phil 2.13).

Thank you for sharing, Jim.

 

[nephilimiyr]

What part of america are you in? This country is so infested with sin and it has very little if anything to do with legalism.

Half of the people don't believe, don't care, and think we are strange for believing.
The other half believe but most of them don't go to church or do anything, and they don't care, and they think we are strange.
The ones that do goto church, most of them habitually sin, and they don't care.

I'm sure their are people running around this country saying "Oh dear, I've just lost my salvation, that's the 3rd time today."
But I've never seen any.

Welcome to america, the land of the selfish and self centered.
You can't have a mindset of legalism when you're selfish.
Here we have doctors, plenty of food, plenty of work, plenty of entertainment, not much to call on God for when you're talking about the flesh.

Shouldn't you be preaching this stuff to the catholic sections?
I don't see anyone here being legalistic.

I think that "legalistic" may have been a poor choice of words as it brings too many things into focus. I think we need to be more specific.

Galatians 3:25, now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

I like the way Paul puts it, "supervision of the law". What pinetree, myself, and map4 is talking about is that we see alot of supervision of the law when we are not supposed to be under it's supervision anymore.

Please believe that I see the same things you do, my eyes are not covered, I see alot of sin out there and alot of people not caring about it, but placing people under the law to get them to stop it or to even care about it is not the answer.

I submit that the reason we see so much sin and apathy towards it is because of this supervision of the law.

 

[Seeking Him]

I am wondering if/how it's possible to attend church at all at the moment.

Maybe when enough consciousness of my righteousness in Christ soaks through me I'll be able to let the sin-consciousness of others roll of me like water off a duck's back?
I'm assuming a few of you have reached that point, and can walk in grace among those who haven't, no longer shaken up or wounded by their erroneous teachings.
Did it take you a long time to get that free?

Until the day I can do that, I daren't risk going into those places at all. It's been pretty toxic at times - the very places a distressed and broken person might hope to find the healing of Jesus often turn out instead to be a mental torture chamber, forcing the sufferer to examine and re-examine themselves and get bogged down more and more into the dead old self they're so desperate to leave behind.

Yes, I think it takes awhile for the truth of our standing in righteousness to get through. I heard a minister once say that it takes the power of the Holy Spirit to convince us we have been made righteous. I never heard about it for years. Now that I am hearing it, it's starting to become real.

What you said about the old self is true. These teachings resurrect the old, while the words of the Spirit make us new in Christ !

 

[Seeking Him]

I think that "legalistic" may have been a poor choice of words as it brings too many things into focus. I think we need to be more specific.

Galatians 3:25, now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

I like the way Paul puts it, "supervision of the law". What pinetree, myself, and map4 is talking about is that we see alot of supervision of the law when we are not supposed to be under it's supervision anymore.

Please believe that I see the same things you do, my eyes are not covered, I see alot of sin out there and alot of people not caring about it, but placing people under the law to get them to stop it or to even care about it is not the answer.

I submit that the reason we see so much sin and apathy towards it is because of this supervision of the law.

Amen! the letter kills, the Spirit gives life.

 

[Cassidy]

I think that "legalistic" may have been a poor choice of words as it brings too many things into focus. I think we need to be more specific.

Galatians 3:25, now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

I like the way Paul puts it, "supervision of the law". What pinetree, myself, and map4 is talking about is that we see alot of supervision of the law when we are not supposed to be under it's supervision anymore.

Please believe that I see the same things you do, my eyes are not covered, I see alot of sin out there and alot of people not caring about it, but placing people under the law to get them to stop it or to even care about it is not the answer.

I submit that the reason we see so much sin and apathy towards it is because of this supervision of the law.

Very well put!

 

[pinetree]

I think that "legalistic" may have been a poor choice of words as it brings too many things into focus. I think we need to be more specific.

Galatians 3:25, now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

I like the way Paul puts it, "supervision of the law". What pinetree, myself, and map4 is talking about is that we see alot of supervision of the law when we are not supposed to be under it's supervision anymore.

Please believe that I see the same things you do, my eyes are not covered, I see alot of sin out there and alot of people not caring about it, but placing people under the law to get them to stop it or to even care about it is not the answer.

I submit that the reason we see so much sin and apathy towards it is because of this supervision of the law.

yup,we dont need these..