Spiritual Restaurants..food Or Poison?

[nephilimiyr]

I've been thinking about what you've said, and it's true. Past tense. It happened at the cross. All that Jesus accomplished at the cross for us and us alone. How great is He!

He was made sin and purged us of our sin. Our flesh was crucified with Him! He disarmed the principalities. Most amazingly, He took the wrath that was due us. And so much more.

Paul said there is such power in the cross. That power is there to flood us with the finished work , in victory, in our daily struggles.

I rarely heard about the power of the cross, in church. Now, as I come to experience it more and more, I can't help but rejoice in this great, good news.

It is great good news, yet people are constantly being told, or they're constantly telling themselves, that there is something that they need to be doing in order to experience what God has already given them. It may seemed a bit strange but sometimes people just don't like accepting something that is totally free. They either feel they are unworthy, or they don't trust it, as in, there's always a catch. In this world that is for the most part very true, but not in God's kingdom! That is what is called evil.

 

[lismore]

I've been thinking about what you've said, and it's true. Past tense. It happened at the cross. All that Jesus accomplished at the cross for us and us alone. How great is He!

He was made sin and purged us of our sin. Our flesh was crucified with Him! He disarmed the principalities. Most amazingly, He took the wrath that was due us. And so much more.

Paul said there is such power in the cross. That power is there to flood us with the finished work , in victory, in our daily struggles.

I rarely heard about the power of the cross, in church. Now, as I come to experience it more and more, I can't help but rejoice in this great, good news.

Yes amen

 

[pinetree]

Thats what a lot of people dont get. 'Set me free' is past tense. It has already happened. They used to sing choruses in the charismatic movement like:

'Im so glad Jesus set me free'
'I saw the Light'
'I wont leave here as I came in Jesus name'

It was singing, believing and confessing these things.

I have been saved. I have been set free. I have been forgiven. I have been accepted.

Good eternal stuff friend!

 

[pinetree]

I think what lismore is trying to say is that the freedom that all born again christians are suppose to be experiencing is not being experienced by all. The reason for this isn't because God hasn't given them this freedom but because they don't realize that they can experience it. They don't allow themselves to experience it. They treat themselves like they are not truely the royal son and daughters of God, they treat themselves as if they are still slaves living in the slave quarters where they have to gravel and beg. Please read my signature, many christians need to read that and believe that!


Perhaps I was just quickened but this verse just came to mind.

Matthew 11:12, From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing, and forceful men lay hold of it.

This isn't just for people who want to spread the gospel to a dying world. This can also apply to ourselves individually. If we want to experience the kingdom of heaven in our lives we must grab a hold of it and live in it. You're not going to experience something that you wont allow yourself to experience. If you feel you are not worthy, guess what, you will not experience it. All the freedom that you will ever need or want lies within the kingdom of heaven, you must allow yourself to experience it. God does not force it upon you, He says, here it is, enjoy! He invites you in, He doesn't push or shove.

Many things are within the kingdom of heaven, including freedom. Unless you lay a hold of it and forcefully advance it in your life, you wont experience it fully. You will end up wallowing away in your miseries and guilt. But there is no guilt concerning us born again chrisitians because He has made us justified!

God wants us to step inside of the kingdom and roam around. Not take one step in and because you are reminded of a past sin or sins will then go no further. Some take a step inside and decide that they aren't worthy to even be there so they leave. That is truely sad! Where do they get these ideas of not being worthy? Hmmm, can I take a guess? It comes from exactly what pinetree and I were talking about, pastors, fellow church members, the world, ourselves, and our spiritual evil enemies. Basically, people and things that tell you that your performance is what gains you God's love and favor upon your life.

Boy neph,you sure have a good way with words..

Your so right about knowing the kingdom..

Ephesians1:17
I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit[f] of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. 18I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, 19and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, 20which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms,

The problem I havs always seen,is teachings identify me,with my old man..

The pulpits say ,you this,you that,and on,and on..

The you in the teaching is my old man!

It should be focused on the new man..

The teachings should edify,and orientate with the new..we are new!

I dont want to leave church trying to redestroy the flesh,Jesus did that..

I want to walk in newness of life,not in oldness of letter,IE,,me trying to do the law in my own strength,which is a set up for failure every time.

I dont want romans 7..

Give me that glorious 8....8.....8..one more time! 8..

 

[nephilimiyr]

Ephesians1:17
I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit[f] of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. 18I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, 19and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, 20which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms,

The problem I havs always seen,is teachings identify me,with my old man..

The pulpits say ,you this,you that,and on,and on..

The you in the teaching is my old man!

It should be focused on the new man..

The teachings should edify,and orientate with the new..we are new!

I dont want to leave church trying to redestroy the flesh,Jesus did that..

I want to walk in newness of life,not in oldness of letter,IE,,me trying to do the law in my own strength,which is a set up for failure every time.

I dont want romans 7..

Give me that glorious 8....8.....8..one more time! 8..

LOL, yes, Romans 8 is very enpowering!

Here's a passage for you. I've posted it around here plenty of times but because so many people are so sin conscious it's always good to keep posting it.

2 Corinthians 5:16-17, So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!

People need to start incerting themselves in that scriture because Paul isn't just talking about how we look at others but ourselves as well, we are included!

 

[map4]

I have attended the same church for many years. So I don't have first hand knowledge of what is taught by other pastors. Other than what I read or hear on the radio, tv, etc. (which I don't really listen to much). But, judging by friends and family who attend other churches, it seems that there is not enough teaching on who we are in Christ.
I believe it is so important to know who we are in Him. I was set free by that knowledge (thank you Lord!)

But some people seem to think that when others talk about who they are in Christ, they are being arrogant, or they think we think we can just do whatever we want. NOT TRUE!

When you know who you are in Christ, you see and understand that it is all about Him and it gives you a confidence. Confidence that my righteousness is not up to me. Thank God it's not! I am free to boldy proclaim that I am the righteousness of God THROUGH CHRIST JESUS! I would be nothing without Him. So I don't have to 'try' to be good. The burden is lifted off of me.

Now, does that mean that I can live any old way? NO! Sin is still sin and we should do what we know to do or not do. It is our motive behind doing the right thing or not doing the wrong thing that matters. It is because I want to please my Father! Just like I always wanted to please my earthly father.
The difference is, now, when I do sin, I don't condemn myself like I used to. Sure, I'm sorry that I did 'whatever'. But I don't condemn myself because it is not my righteousness that makes me who I am, it is His righteousness. And when I do sin, the Holy Spirit convicts me of righteousness. He reminds me that my salvation does not hinder on whether I sin or not. Because my sins are forgiven. They are under the blood of Jesus. There is such freedom in that.
I'm not saying that one should just go on sinning or continue in sin just because 'we can'. Not at all. But there are things we all struggle with. Our flesh is at war with our spirit.
Paul said in Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing god dewlls; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.
Then he goes on in Rom. 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus has mde me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom. 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh SET THEIR MINDS on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
Where is your mind? Do you dwell on your flesh, in which nothing good dwells, or is your mind on things above?
Rom 8:10-11 And if Christ is in you, THE BODY IS DEAD BECAUSE OF SIN, BUT THE SPIRIT IS LIFE BECAUSE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. 11. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead WILL ALSO GIVE LIFE TO YOUR MORTAL BODIES THROUGH HIS SPIRIT WHO DWELLS IN YOU.

Sin does not have dominion over us. We are children of the most High God.
Let your spirit man rise up and take dominion over your flesh. Set your mind on things above and don't dwell on what you do wrong. DON'T CONDEMN YOURSELVES! Let the Holy Spirit pick you up and set you back on the right course. Let Him 'convict you of righteousness in Christ Jesus'.

As long as we are in these fleshy bodies, there is a war. I don't mind if a preacher teaches about sin. Sometimes it is needed. AS LONG AS he goes on to tell the WHOLE truth. Don't stop at the sin in our lives, we know when we sin...tell the truth of how to overcome it. Don't beat people up for something God knows we struggle with. Tell them they are overcomers through Christ Jesus.

One more point...do we have to suffer consequences for sin? I think sometimes we will. Even though our sins are forgiven, there may be consequences we have to deal with. That is no different than we are with our own children. When they do wrong, we forgive them. Sometimes we show mercy. But sometimes they have to 'suffer the consequences' of their actions.
I don't mean we have to 'pay for what we did' because Jesus paid the penalty of our sins. But sometimes what we do cause things to be set in motion. Especially when others are involved.
So don't think I have a 'flippant' attitude about sin. I just know that I am redeemed from the wages of it.

 

[pinetree]

LOL, yes, Romans 8 is very enpowering!

Here's a passage for you. I've posted it around here plenty of times but because so many people are so sin conscious it's always good to keep posting it.

2 Corinthians 5:16-17, So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!

People need to start incerting themselves in that scriture because Paul isn't just talking about how we look at others but ourselves as well, we are included!

hmmmm good one bro...

Colossians1:27
To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

Ya know,I often say ,and ask saints..

Where are you looking??

If I look at my old creation,that is all I see..

If I look at the new.....

That is why sin centered teachings are so bad..

They make one look at a dead person.:o

Ps,my northern friend..

What do you think of this verse??


Romans 5:13
for before thelaw was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.

 

[pinetree]

I have attended the same church for many years. So I don't have first hand knowledge of what is taught by other pastors. Other than what I read or hear on the radio, tv, etc. (which I don't really listen to much). But, judging by friends and family who attend other churches, it seems that there is not enough teaching on who we are in Christ.
I believe it is so important to know who we are in Him. I was set free by that knowledge (thank you Lord!)

But some people seem to think that when others talk about who they are in Christ, they are being arrogant, or they think we think we can just do whatever we want. NOT TRUE!

When you know who you are in Christ, you see and understand that it is all about Him and it gives you a confidence. Confidence that my righteousness is not up to me. Thank God it's not! I am free to boldy proclaim that I am the righteousness of God THROUGH CHRIST JESUS! I would be nothing without Him. So I don't have to 'try' to be good. The burden is lifted off of me.

Now, does that mean that I can live any old way? NO! Sin is still sin and we should do what we know to do or not do. It is our motive behind doing the right thing or not doing the wrong thing that matters. It is because I want to please my Father! Just like I always wanted to please my earthly father.
The difference is, now, when I do sin, I don't condemn myself like I used to. Sure, I'm sorry that I did 'whatever'. But I don't condemn myself because it is not my righteousness that makes me who I am, it is His righteousness. And when I do sin, the Holy Spirit convicts me of righteousness. He reminds me that my salvation does not hinder on whether I sin or not. Because my sins are forgiven. They are under the blood of Jesus. There is such freedom in that.
I'm not saying that one should just go on sinning or continue in sin just because 'we can'. Not at all. But there are things we all struggle with. Our flesh is at war with our spirit.
Paul said in Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing god dewlls; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.
Then he goes on in Rom. 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus has mde me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom. 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh SET THEIR MINDS on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
Where is your mind? Do you dwell on your flesh, in which nothing good dwells, or is your mind on things above?
Rom 8:10-11 And if Christ is in you, THE BODY IS DEAD BECAUSE OF SIN, BUT THE SPIRIT IS LIFE BECAUSE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. 11. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead WILL ALSO GIVE LIFE TO YOUR MORTAL BODIES THROUGH HIS SPIRIT WHO DWELLS IN YOU.

Sin does not have dominion over us. We are children of the most High God.
Let your spirit man rise up and take dominion over your flesh. Set your mind on things above and don't dwell on what you do wrong. DON'T CONDEMN YOURSELVES! Let the Holy Spirit pick you up and set you back on the right course. Let Him 'convict you of righteousness in Christ Jesus'.

As long as we are in these fleshy bodies, there is a war. I don't mind if a preacher teaches about sin. Sometimes it is needed. AS LONG AS he goes on to tell the WHOLE truth. Don't stop at the sin in our lives, we know when we sin...tell the truth of how to overcome it. Don't beat people up for something God knows we struggle with. Tell them they are overcomers through Christ Jesus.

One more point...do we have to suffer consequences for sin? I think sometimes we will. Even though our sins are forgiven, there may be consequences we have to deal with. That is no different than we are with our own children. When they do wrong, we forgive them. Sometimes we show mercy. But sometimes they have to 'suffer the consequences' of their actions.
I don't mean we have to 'pay for what we did' because Jesus paid the penalty of our sins. But sometimes what we do cause things to be set in motion. Especially when others are involved.
So don't think I have a 'flippant' attitude about sin. I just know that I am redeemed from the wages of it.

Good post sis!

Well thought out.It is is a good point you raised ,we are not flippant about sin.But If I can speak for you,I think you are saying why get all caught up with a sin centered existence,when it has been paid for.

grace is the power anyway,not our human effort.


Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.

 

[map4]

Good post sis!

Well thought out.It is is a good point you raised ,we are not flippant about sin.But If I can speak for you,I think you are saying why get all caught up with a sin centered existence,when it has been paid for.

grace is the power anyway,not our human effort.


Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.

Yes, don't focus on sin.
When you do, it has dominion over you.

Phil. 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy - meditate on these things.

that would not be sin.

 

[pinetree]

yup.

You could think on this verse for 50 years..

2 Corinthians 5:21
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

It sure seems to me,that we live in a realm of perfection now.

Hebrews 8:12
For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."

We are seated with Him,and holy in His sight...

We have been made perfect,again,in His eyes..

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

And we know we have an eternal high priest,who does this..

Hebrews10:22let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water.

BUT!

The problem comes once the law is dished out from the pulpits..

It does this..(not good!)

First starts in the sin consciousness..

Romans 3:20
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.


Then we get this...:o

Romans 4:15
because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.

What wrath means in the greek,notice the effects on the soul.

1) anger, the natural disposition, temper, character
2) movement or agitation of the soul, impulse, desire, any violent
emotion, but esp. anger
3) anger, wrath, indignation
4) anger exhibited in punishment, hence used for punishment itself
4a) of punishments inflicted by magistrates


Then it keeps us in worse shape,because the Romans 7 spiral has now been activated!

Because it does this..it makes things worse!

Romans 7:8
But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead.

But finally we do this..

Galatians 2:19
For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God.

And then this..

Romans 8:1
[ Life Through the Spirit ] Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

So my repetitive them..

(I know I repeat myself)

Maybe it would be best for teachers to just bypass 7.

And IMPART 8.

 

[KleinerApfel]

I am wondering if/how it's possible to attend church at all at the moment.

Maybe when enough consciousness of my righteousness in Christ soaks through me I'll be able to let the sin-consciousness of others roll of me like water off a duck's back?
I'm assuming a few of you have reached that point, and can walk in grace among those who haven't, no longer shaken up or wounded by their erroneous teachings.
Did it take you a long time to get that free?

Until the day I can do that, I daren't risk going into those places at all. It's been pretty toxic at times - the very places a distressed and broken person might hope to find the healing of Jesus often turn out instead to be a mental torture chamber, forcing the sufferer to examine and re-examine themselves and get bogged down more and more into the dead old self they're so desperate to leave behind.

 

[JimB]

I am wondering if/how it's possible to attend church at all at the moment.

Maybe when enough consciousness of my righteousness in Christ soaks through me I'll be able to let the sin-consciousness of others roll of me like water off a duck's back?
I'm assuming a few of you have reached that point, and can walk in grace among those who haven't, no longer shaken up or wounded by their erroneous teachings.
Did it take you a long time to get that free?

Until the day I can do that, I daren't risk going into those places at all. It's been pretty toxic at times - the very places a distressed and broken person might hope to find the healing of Jesus often turn out instead to be a mental torture chamber, forcing the sufferer to examine and re-examine themselves and get bogged down more and more into the dead old self they're so desperate to leave behind.

I remember going through an extended period of personal unworthiness, so much so that I left “full-time” ministry and went into business for thirteen years (it takes some people longer to heal than others, I suppose). What I did not do (and, looking back on it, I am glad I didn’t), is become a church drop-out. I was so bitter in spirit that for the entire duration of my slow healing, I continually took note of the wounds in fellow church-members. It was my way, I think, of redirecting attention away from my wounds. But among all the imagined “hypocrites”, I found some true-blue friends who helped me through the rough places and bore with my bad attitude to the point I (at least, I hope I have) found healing.

Had I attempted this on my own, without the church I was a member of (flawed though it may have been), I do not think I would have ever found the healing I needed.

And, yes, the teaching of the church was often “toxic” at times but I discovered God’s immune system in me did not allow me to be poisoned. For it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure (Phil 2.13).

~Jim

The Bible is so simple you have to have help to misunderstand it.​

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Yes, don't focus on sin.
When you do, it has dominion over you.

Phil. 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy - meditate on these things.

that would not be sin.

It would also be good if we could stop focusing on what others are or are not doing. By focusing I mean not looking and judging their salvation according to their actions. Some do extra things they like to do as an expression of their love and affection for the Father that others do not feel the need to do and are judged by those who do not feel the need to do as being legalistic. Vice versa, those who do particular things should not judge those who don't. It goes both ways.

We can evaluate our own salvation and our own heart but not the heart of others. We should not look at others and think much less say, "they are not a real believer 'cause they do or don't do this or that". Of course, we often do "think" such and should view this "thought" as a signal of what we still need to seek (not whip ourselves over) the Spirit on changing in us.

Their are nine visible attributes of a true believers life. Using the King James Version of Galatians 5:22-23, these attributes are:love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and temperance. We learn from scripture that these are not individual "fruits" from which we pick and choose. Rather, the fruit of the Spirit is one ninefold "fruit" that characterizes all who truly walk in the Holy Spirit. Collectively, this is the fruit that all believers in Yeshua Hamashia (Jesus Christ) should be producing in their new lives with Him. We cannot produce good fruit on our own. It is He who produces it as we spend time with Him. I would think that our inspection of this fruit in our own lives will take up all other time we might try and inspect it in the lives of others.

And, if you are really concerned about any association you may have with those you consider undesirable, then by all means leave the restaurant. They may not want you there just as much as you don't want to be there.

 

[pinetree]

My view is this..
The problem is,the sin mindset affects the environment,so it is not only the toxic teaching,the saints become.."intoxicated” lol..(bad environment)

I think it is perfectly healthy,to take the child and flee!

It is not a bad attitude,to lay hold of God,and not get burdened by the things that separate us from God..IE,sin centeredness which is not the way of the cross.

The violent are taking the kingdom by force,as neph said…

Alot of times,folks think that they are loving the bretheren by staying in the legalistic environment.But it comes with a price…pain!

I think,we should all be like Paul,and oppose Peter to his face,after all,that is the best way to love the bretheren.

Paul prayed that we would know the riches we have.

And I for one will not let modern day Pharisees bog me down,no way Jose!

So the question is,do we fear man,or God? God wants me to grow up in the fullness of Him..

Hebrews12:12
Therefore, strengthen your feeble arms and weak knees. 13"Make level paths for your feet," so that the lame may not be disabled, but rather healed.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

See, there bro pinetree goes again. Making himself Paul and everyone else who disagrees with him Peter.

 

[pinetree]

See, there bro pinetree goes again; making accusations about things that were not said. He's never met me yet has concluded that I'm the Peter to his Paul

I was not talking to you.Every post is not about you.
And when legalism is addressed,it is an objective conversation about the issue..not you!

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I was not talking to you.Every post is not about you.
And when legalism is addressed,it is an objective conversation about the issue..not you!

Maybe not specifically, however, your post about "modern day pharisees" and opposing them to their face seemed to fit other posts where you were directly talking about me.

If you "really" were not thinking of me and others who believe like me then I apologize. Thats probably why I need to step away from any of your posts, 'cause everything you say seems to attack the way I am and you call it something that I know it is not.

 

[pinetree]

Maybe not specifically, however, your post about "modern day pharisees" and opposing them to their face seemed to fit other posts where you were directly talking about me.

If you "really" were not thinking of me and others who believe like me then I apologize. Thats probably why I need to step away from any of your posts, 'cause everything you say seems to attack the way I am and you call it something that I know it is not.

ya know sis..

On another thread,you made a very rude comment to me,that was ugly..

Something about me dumbing down in school..

Then you edited it,then asked me to edit my quote,which had the rude words,You apologised.

So I edited it to cover your tracks,,

Now here you go again.

If you have personal issues with bro pine...

Maybe you should take it to the Lord.

There is some good ole law for you...

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

ya know sis..

On another thread,you made a very rude comment to me,that was ugly..

Something about me dumbing down in school..

Then you edited it,then asked me to edit my quote,which had the rude words,You apologised.

So I edited it to cover your tracks,,

Now here you go again.

If you have personal issues with bro pine...

Maybe you should take it to the Lord.

There is some good ole law for you...

I did not say anything about you dumbing down. You kept asking for a list, I gave you a list, then again you asked for a list, I clarified that was the list, then again you asked for the list, so I asked, "what grade level do I need to dumb it (the list) down to". And, if you'd read the last part of my post that you've responded to you would see that I do see there is an issue and that is probably why I need to step away from your posts 'cause I feel condemned by you when I read what you posts. I am being hypersensitive and I hate that it's there.

You said, you have no problem with calling things as YOU see it. That is all I'm doing here. Why do you feel the need to "poke"? See the last sentence of your post

There is some good ole law for you

...you are indeed poking at what you think I believe. I do not find it funny. I find it hurtful and mean.

 

[SUNSTONE]

Alot of times,folks think that they are loving the bretheren by staying in the legalistic environment

What part of america are you in? This country is so infested with sin and it has very little if anything to do with legalism.

Half of the people don't believe, don't care, and think we are strange for believing.
The other half believe but most of them don't go to church or do anything, and they don't care, and they think we are strange.
The ones that do goto church, most of them habitually sin, and they don't care.

I'm sure their are people running around this country saying "Oh dear, I've just lost my salvation, that's the 3rd time today."
But I've never seen any.

Welcome to america, the land of the selfish and self centered.
You can't have a mindset of legalism when you're selfish.
Here we have doctors, plenty of food, plenty of work, plenty of entertainment, not much to call on God for when you're talking about the flesh.

Shouldn't you be preaching this stuff to the catholic sections?
I don't see anyone here being legalistic.