Spiritual Restaurants..food Or Poison?

[Cassidy]

No but see...to me...guilt makes me feel like I'm 'bad' or a 'bad person' that God is unhappy with me.

Conviction makes me feel like..."I think I shouldn't be doing this...I think I'll do that now"...no guilt or shame...just a pull to do according to the spirit and not the flesh.

One is of God and one isn't.

 

[lismore]

Now that is one of those "do not's" that is not said by God is sin.

I do not think we should "lecture anyone". However, we should teach what scripture says and then allow the Holy Spirit to convict in the area that HE see's needs to change. The ministers job is to teach the scripture. Adding on to that OR taking away from that is a serious issue with God.

Hi there

I agree, but I think the best way for someone to change their lifestyle is to have a real and terrifying encounter with God. Terrifying because in the presence of God sin is revealed and its consequences.

My uncle whilst a Christian was deep into stealing and gambling a few years ago, he stole £800 cash from a drawer and put it on a dog race. He had panic attacks and heart trouble and was taken into hospital. The first night he spent in hospital he had an encounter with God and repented from it all, went back to church and stuff soon after. Like Ebeneezer Scrooge in the Christmas Carol became a new man after the dream of Christmas Past, present and future.

Preached at my uncle for years, no change. Just preached back. One scary act of God, big and instant change. Intense. As Jesus said, if it causes you to sin throw it away, anything is better than being plunged into hell.

 

[pinetree]

That's true but it doesn't stop with their pastors. The menu is also handed down through members of the church, authors, christian celebrity pastors, evangelists, etc., etc. Suffice it to say, we hear this distorted message all around us because it is of the world.

In my case, and think for many, this comes mainly through ourselves. And with that I also do blame the spiritual evil forces that do work at shaping our thoughts. But the idea also comes from within that it's up to us, that the work is ours to do. We love to condemn ourselves when we fall. We love to blame ourseleves because we want to do it all, we want to solve the sin in our lives. That way we can show ourselves as appoved by God, but that is not the plan of God. Our job is to simply have faith and place all our trust in God, then He does the work. We are his workmanship!

so true neph..

The environment is set by the leaders..

And yes,totally agree that it becomes the collective mentalitiy of the group.

Reinforced every Sunday..

A do's and dont mentality,has a form of Godliness,but denies the power of the cross!

It is flesh runamuck!

handle not,touch not..

It does nothing but gratify the flesh,that somehow we can overcome in our own strength.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

No but see...to me...guilt makes me feel like I'm 'bad' or a 'bad person' that God is unhappy with me.

Conviction makes me feel like..."I think I shouldn't be doing this...I think I'll do that now"...no guilt or shame...just a pull to do according to the spirit and not the flesh.

One is of God and one isn't.

I believe I understand what you are saying. We seem to be just coming at the word "guilt" from a different perspective.

If I have been unloving to my neighbor, I am guilty of being unloving. However, being forgiven I can let that guilt go, 'cause I'm no longer under it...I'm under His blood. If the adversary tries to throw it up in my face telling me that I'm a bad person and that God is unhappy with me, I just tell him to go to hell and I move on.

LOL Actually, I totally ignore him (the adversary) and begin thanking God for all He's brought me from. That makes the adversary run away pretty fast.

 

[lismore]

How WE are going to go to hell if WE don't stop sinning TODAY.
!!!

Hey There

1 John 3:6 no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.

This passage is oft quoted.

Known him= it takes time to get to know someone. It takes time to change. Whoever has been forgiven much loves much.

Seen him= If you met God in your front room, you would pass out in terror. You would change overnight.

I think we need more encounters with God of the face to face scary kind. Whenever you meet someone who has had such an encounter, sin is not an issue with them. They're sold out for God.

too many people in church have heard of Jesus, but dont know him and havent yet met him.

 

[Cassidy]

Hi there

I agree, but I think the best way for someone to change their lifestyle is to have a real and terrifying encounter with God. Terrifying because in the presence of God sin is revealed and its consequences.

My uncle whilst a Christian was deep into stealing and gambling a few years ago, he stole £800 cash from a drawer and put it on a dog race. He had panic attacks and heart trouble and was taken into hospital. The first night he spent in hospital he had an encounter with God and repented from it all, went back to church and stuff soon after. Like Ebeneezer Scrooge in the Christmas Carol became a new man after the dream of Christmas Past, present and future.

Preached at my uncle for years, no change. Just preached back. One scary act of God, big and instant change. Intense. As Jesus said, if it causes you to sin throw it away, anything is better than being plunged into hell.

Jonah was swallowed by a whale! That would have been pretty shocking!

 

[Cassidy]

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=G6pwM4Tku04

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFwV6YubAxw&feature=related

 

[lismore]

Jonah was swallowed by a whale! That would have been pretty shocking!

Indeed. He went to straight Nineveh after his fishy experience. My point is that for some people, a terrifying encounter with God will be required to change them. Saul didnt persecute any Christians after his Damascus Road encounter!

Those pastors who bombard people with judgement and brimstone are missing the point. All they have to do is get the person to God. Reality will do the rest. A Holy God and a sinful person in the same place, one has to change.

 

[nephilimiyr]

so true neph..

The environment is set by the leaders..

And yes,totally agree that it becomes the collective mentalitiy of the group.

Reinforced every Sunday..

A do's and dont mentality,has a form of Godliness,but denies the power of the cross!

It is flesh runamuck!

handle not,touch not..

It does nothing but gratify the flesh,that somehow we can overcome in our own strength.

Yes, that's true. And the reason why God has the plan that He has is because He wants us to have to reply on him totally. I'm not saying we are to be lazy but that we have to learn how to surrender. And that becomes as hard or difficult as we make it to be. Children can find it easy to surrender, but adults have egos and pride.

 

[Seeking Him]

Jesus said "the Spirit of the Lord is upon me and has anointed me to set the captives free." That's the pastor's ministry too. Or it should be. The anointing of the Spirit is what sets people free.

God gave us the ministry of the New Covenant, of the Spirit, that gives life. It's also a ministry of righteousness. To impart the riches of our inheritance. He promised that the rivers of living water would flow out of our very beings. To bring grace, healing, and victory through the power of Christ's cross. I think that's the good news that pastors need a new revelation of.

 

[pinetree]

Ya know in light of what neph said about ego..he is right..

I think alot of people think that if you let go,you will somehow go running wild..and go crazy...

Now also to touch on the point that SUNSTONE said..

Sure,we need self control..

But in the end,one must ask..

What is the Goal of the high calling of Jesus Christ??

All religions offers control,or asceticism.But we have something better!

But look at what happened when Paul let go..

24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

He realized somehow,that when he hit bottom in Romans 7, that 8 was the answer....

He ,who was filled with coveting,did not go on a shopping spree at the mall,he then learned through the Spirit to rely on God in all his weakness.

Romans 8:2
because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.

 

[pinetree]

Yes, that's true. And the reason why God has the plan that He has is because He wants us to have to reply on him totally. I'm not saying we are to be lazy but that we have to learn how to surrender. And that becomes as hard or difficult as we make it to be. Children can find it easy to surrender, but adults have egos and pride.

yes,your right.
we must become as little children...

 

[map4]

Jesus said "the Spirit of the Lord is upon me and has anointed me to set the captives free." That's the pastor's ministry too. Or it should be. The anointing of the Spirit is what sets people free.

God gave us the ministry of the New Covenant, of the Spirit, that gives life. It's also a ministry of righteousness. To impart the riches of our inheritance. He promised that the rivers of living water would flow out of our very beings. To bring grace, healing, and victory through the power of Christ's cross. I think that's the good news that pastors need a new revelation of.

Amen!!

 

[lismore]

Romans 8:2
because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.

Thats what a lot of people dont get. 'Set me free' is past tense. It has already happened. They used to sing choruses in the charismatic movement like:

'Im so glad Jesus set me free'
'I saw the Light'
'I wont leave here as I came in Jesus name'

It was singing, believing and confessing these things.

I have been saved. I have been set free. I have been forgiven. I have been accepted.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Thats what a lot of people dont get. 'Set me free' is past tense. It has already happened. They used to sing choruses in the charismatic movement like:

'Im so glad Jesus set me free'
'I saw the Light'
'I wont leave here as I came in Jesus name'

It was singing, believing and confessing these things.

I have been saved. I have been set free. I have been forgiven. I have been accepted.

so what is it that people don't get?

I'm so glad Jesus set me free: sounds past to me

I saw the light: yup, Jesus set me free and I saw the light

I Won't Leave Here As I Came In Jesus Name: Not sure about that one but I know He's daily changing me so any time (which is all the time) spent with Him will make me better than I was.

Sorry that I don't understand your point. Please explain. Thank you.

 

[nephilimiyr]

so what is it that people don't get?

I'm so glad Jesus set me free: sounds past to me

I saw the light: yup, Jesus set me free and I saw the light

I Won't Leave Here As I Came In Jesus Name: Not sure about that one but I know He's daily changing me so any time (which is all the time) spent with Him will make me better than I was.

Sorry that I don't understand your point. Please explain. Thank you.

I think what lismore is trying to say is that the freedom that all born again christians are suppose to be experiencing is not being experienced by all. The reason for this isn't because God hasn't given them this freedom but because they don't realize that they can experience it. They don't allow themselves to experience it. They treat themselves like they are not truely the royal son and daughters of God, they treat themselves as if they are still slaves living in the slave quarters where they have to gravel and beg. Please read my signature, many christians need to read that and believe that!


Perhaps I was just quickened but this verse just came to mind.

Matthew 11:12, From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing, and forceful men lay hold of it.

This isn't just for people who want to spread the gospel to a dying world. This can also apply to ourselves individually. If we want to experience the kingdom of heaven in our lives we must grab a hold of it and live in it. You're not going to experience something that you wont allow yourself to experience. If you feel you are not worthy, guess what, you will not experience it. All the freedom that you will ever need or want lies within the kingdom of heaven, you must allow yourself to experience it. God does not force it upon you, He says, here it is, enjoy! He invites you in, He doesn't push or shove.

Many things are within the kingdom of heaven, including freedom. Unless you lay a hold of it and forcefully advance it in your life, you wont experience it fully. You will end up wallowing away in your miseries and guilt. But there is no guilt concerning us born again chrisitians because He has made us justified!

God wants us to step inside of the kingdom and roam around. Not take one step in and because you are reminded of a past sin or sins will then go no further. Some take a step inside and decide that they aren't worthy to even be there so they leave. That is truely sad! Where do they get these ideas of not being worthy? Hmmm, can I take a guess? It comes from exactly what pinetree and I were talking about, pastors, fellow church members, the world, ourselves, and our spiritual evil enemies. Basically, people and things that tell you that your performance is what gains you God's love and favor upon your life.

 

[lismore]

so what is it that people don't get?
.

Yes what Neph said.

Personally I have come out of some church meetings feeling like a worm with a long way to crawl.

Instead we should be focussing on what Jesus has already done for us.

 

[Cassidy]

Or people lie to them and tell them they are not really set free and need to be 'delivered' again and again and again.

 

[Seeking Him]

Thats what a lot of people dont get. 'Set me free' is past tense. It has already happened. They used to sing choruses in the charismatic movement like:

'Im so glad Jesus set me free'
'I saw the Light'
'I wont leave here as I came in Jesus name'

It was singing, believing and confessing these things.

I have been saved. I have been set free. I have been forgiven. I have been accepted.

I've been thinking about what you've said, and it's true. Past tense. It happened at the cross. All that Jesus accomplished at the cross for us and us alone. How great is He!

He was made sin and purged us of our sin. Our flesh was crucified with Him! He disarmed the principalities. Most amazingly, He took the wrath that was due us. And so much more.

Paul said there is such power in the cross. That power is there to flood us with the finished work , in victory, in our daily struggles.

I rarely heard about the power of the cross, in church. Now, as I come to experience it more and more, I can't help but rejoice in this great, good news.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Or people lie to them and tell them they are not really set free and need to be 'delivered' again and again and again.

Yes, I agree!