Sanhedrin plans to put Pope on trial

[Rhamiel]

all who reject Jesus cooperate with the antichrist spirit

how can you be the Chosen People Of God
AND
antichrist
at the same time

1 John 2:22
Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist--denying the Father and the Son.

 

[Rhamiel]

In Jewish views once the Temple was rebuilt, the world would have been shown that Jews are right and all other views were wrong. It wouldn't be a mockery at that point since the last sentence you said would be a view shown wrong.

(Not arguing against your sentence, mind you, but when Judaism views are discussed I would like people to have the most information about those views in the discussion. There's way, way too many misconceptions out there about my faith)

oh I understand the desire to rebuild the Temple
mockery was probably the wrong word to use

you do understand where I am coming from on this though?
Jesus on the cross replaced the need for animal sacrifice

 

[Rhamiel]

I completely understand. What I'm saying is that in our view, if a week from now our Messiah comes and everything takes place, you would recognize that there was never a replacement and that you were wrong. I've read pretty similar views from Christians regarding the second coming of Jesus in that all non-Christians will recognize that they were wrong. "Every knee will bend" right?

oh you are talking about the Messiah building a New Temple
sorry, I think that kind of got lost in the conversation, I must not be fully awake tonight

 

[Open Heart]

You can't possibly think that sacrificing animals is what God wants.

I think that before Christ, the sacrifice of animals looked forward to Christ's atonement. After his death, the sacrifices of animals (which continued another 40 years) looked back in remembrance on his atonement, including those sacrificed made by the Messianics in Jerusalem under James. If the third temple is built, just look at it that way, just as the eucharist remembers Christ's sacrifice.

 

[Open Heart]

Judaism is an antichrist religion, that denies Jesus as Messiah.

If all non-Christian religions are "anti-Christ", it kind of makes the word anti-Christ a rather boring word. It's like, YEAH, we know Jews aren't Christians. What next.

 

[Open Heart]

The antichrist will use his influence to have the third Temple rebuilt, by confirming a covenant with many [the Sanhedrin] for 7 years, in the middle of that 7 years he will put an end to sacrifice and offering, and proclaim himself as the Messiah.

What are you going to do if the temple is rebuilt and more than seven years goes by and Christ hasn't returned?

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

you need to read more of the Church Fathers to gain deeper understanding on this topic

the things of the Old Testament foreshadow the a greater fulfillment in the New Testament

the People of God have been given an even greater gift
through the Holy Spirit, His people can be united with Him like never before
through the Eucharist and Baptism, we join in to the Body of Christ
this is for all people who follow Him
Jew and Gentile
all of the People of God have this open to them


the place would be an abattoir
millions of doves and lambs killed
a mockery of the perfect sacrifice we have through Jesus the spotless Lamb of God

This brings to mind an old Lenten hymn that we still sing:

Not All the blood of Beasts
By: Isaac Watts

Not all the blood of beasts
On Jewish altars slain
Could give the guilty conscience peace
Or wash away the stain.

But Christ, the heavenly Lamb,
Takes all our sins away;
A sacrifice of nobler name
And richer blood than they.

My faith would lay its hand
On that dear head divine
As penitently here I stand,
Confessing guilt is mine.

My soul looks back to see
The burden you did bear
When hanging on the cursed tree;
I know my guilt was there.

Believing, we rejoice
To see the curse remove;
We bless the Lamb with cheerful voice
And sing his bleeding love.

Notes:
Hymn # 156 from The Lutheran Hymnal
Author: William Daman
Tune: Southwell
1st Published in: 1709

 

[Open Heart]

I do not know if the Palestinians are circumcised descendants of Abraham or not but that would be what would determine the matter.

When you read later in Genesis, God explains that the covenant goes through Isaac and not through Ishmael. Jacob buys the birthright from Esau, etc. Ultimately we get a covenant that comes through Israel, not the Arabs.

 

[James Is Back]

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[David4223]

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[RileyG]

it is my understanding that the promise of land in the Old Testament was always conditional?
you keep my commandments, you can have this land
when the Jewish people did not follow God, they would be invaded or exiled?

Yes that is my understanding.

This also reminds me The Davidic covenant was in addition to the Mosaic covenant; meaning, the Jewish people (at that time) still had to follow the law and God still promised the messiah promised to rule in the house of David etc.

 

[Open Heart]

it is my understanding that the promise of land in the Old Testament was always conditional?
you keep my commandments, you can have this land
when the Jewish people did not follow God, they would be invaded or exiled?

Right. God would remove us from the Land. But the Land would still belong to us.

 

[Jan001]

Right. God would remove us from the Land. But the Land would still belong to us.

It seems to me that the land of Canaan belongs to the people who are currently obedient to God's New Covenant. The land covenant is conditional and the condition which must be met to receive the inheritance of the land is obedience to God's commandments . So, at the time of the early church, it seems to me that the land belonged to the people who converted to the New Covenant/Christianity. Also, under the New Covenant, we know that there is no distinction between Jew or Gentile so the land promise is not restricted to only those Christians of Jewish ancestry. So obedient Christians today, regardless of nationality, have more God-given right to the land of Israel than anyone else. After the destruction of Jerusalem and its inhabitants in 70 A.D., God dispersed from the land of Israel the remaining Jews who refused to believe in His Son Jesus.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. NKJV

 

[Rhamiel]

It seems to me that the land of Canaan belongs to the people who are currently obedient to God's New Covenant. The land covenant is conditional and the condition which must be met to receive the inheritance of the land is obedience to God's commandments . So, at the time of the early church, it seems to me that the land belonged to the people who converted to the New Covenant/Christianity. Also, under the New Covenant, we know that there is no distinction between Jew or Gentile so the land promise is not restricted to only those Christians of Jewish ancestry. So obedient Christians today, regardless of nationality, have more God-given right to the land of Israel than anyone else. After the destruction of Jerusalem and its inhabitants in 70 A.D., God dispersed from the land of Israel the remaining Jews who refused to believe in His Son Jesus.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. NKJV

or even if we say it belongs to people who are ethnically Jews
it would be the ethnic Jews who have followed the commands of God and have accepted Christ as Messiah and Lord

 

[Open Heart]

Also, under the New Covenant, we know that there is no distinction between Jew or Gentile so the land promise is not restricted to only those Christians of Jewish ancestry.

There is no distinction when we stand before God and are judged (or not). That is the new Covenant. As far as the Old Covenant goes, which is perpetual, the land still belongs to the Jews.

 

[thecolorsblend]

It's amusing to me that people say "God will not be mocked" in defense of a city and country where YouTube videos aplenty show (and people I know have witnessed or experienced) Catholic priests being harassed, spit on and even beaten up by crazed Israeli mobs. Proselytizing there may be legal but it's sure as you-know-what contrary to their government's policy. I sincerely don't understand how people can't see the disconnect there.

By the way, the Holy Father was right to recognize Palestine.

 

[MikeK]

It's amusing to me that people say "God will not be mocked" in defense of a city and country where YouTube videos aplenty show (and people I know have witnessed or experienced) Catholic priests being harassed, spit on and even beaten up by crazed Israeli mobs. Proselytizing there may be legal but it's sure as you-know-what contrary to their government's policy. I sincerely don't understand how people can't see the disconnect there.

By the way, the Holy Father was right to recognize Palestine.

A) Obviously the Holy Father was right to recognize Palestine, the only people I've seen opine otherwise were hyperpartisan blowhards who worship politics above Christ.

B) When they are majorities in power, both Jews and Muslims often persecute Catholics. Israeli and Palestinian Catholics are persecuted by Israel and often Catholics are persecuted in Muslim countries. Good men will stand against this behavior in all cases, regardless of their political preferences.

 

[LoAmmi]

B) When they are majorities in power, both Jews and Muslims often persecute Catholics. Israeli and Palestinian Catholics are persecuted by Israel and often Catholics are persecuted in Muslim countries. Good men will stand against this behavior in all cases, regardless of their political preferences.

Sadly, it seems like regardless of religious or political affiliation, majorities tend to persecute minorities. It's a very, very sad part of human history and I'm not sure any group can claim to be exempt from it.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Sadly, it seems like regardless of religious or political affiliation, majorities tend to persecute minorities. It's a very, very sad part of human history and I'm not sure any group can claim to be exempt from it.

That would be a worthwhile point except we're not talking about all people everywhere regardless of political affiliation or religious faith; we're talking specifically about how Israelis persecute Catholics.

No offense to you but I'll never understand why people succumb to the bizarre temptation to take a narrowly defined argument (ie, Israelis persecute Catholics) and try to broaden it out (ie, something something human history) to the point where it's completely trite and meaningless.

 

[MikeK]

That would be a worthwhile point except we're not talking about all people everywhere regardless of political affiliation or religious faith; we're talking specifically about how Israelis persecute Catholics.

No offense to you but I'll never understand why people succumb to the bizarre temptation to take a narrowly defined argument (ie, Israelis persecute Catholics) and try to broaden it out (ie, something something human history) to the point where it's completely trite and meaningless.

The topic of how Israelis persecute Catholics is an important one, but it is far from the only topic worth considering. Muslims and Atheists and others also do and we need to stand against these persecutions vocally as well, it is not and either/or. Similarily, Catholic groups have persecuted Jews and Muslims and atheists and so on - we must show that we are different than our ancestors and ammend for their actions.