Revelation Revelation Revelation

[HisdaughterJen]

So we understand that the 7th seal is the 7 trumpets and the 7th trumpet is the 7 bowls.

1. Seal - great trib
2. Seal - great trib
3. Seal - great trib
4. Seal - great trib
5. Seal - given white robes
6. Seal - day of wrath begins (sun, moon, stars, earthquake)
7. Seal - trumpet, trumpet, trumpet, trumpet, trumpet, trumpet, trumpet-(bowl, bowl, bowl, bowl, bowl,bowl, bowl)

So, basically the seventh seal contains the trumpets and bowls.

What is interesting is that the sixth seal is sun ,moon, stars, earthquake and unrepentant people hiding and actually saying the Day of Wrath has come.

So the sixth seal is beginning of Day of wrath and seventh seal is the trumpets and bowls...i.e..wrath.

The fifth seal has people being given white robes.

Before the 7th seal is opened (which is the trumpets and bowls), 144,000 are sealed on earth and there's a multitude in heaven standing before Jesus. hmmm...

Jesus doesn't physically return to the earth until the 7th seal is complete (which contains the bowls and trumpets).

The 6th seal begins wrath. Rev 6 literally says this. So we have been resurrected and have entered those rooms prepared for us before 6th seal since we are to be there until wrath passes by. (Isaiah 26:19-21)

Then there is a resurrection at Jesus' physical return of those who did not take the mark of the beast.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[HisdaughterJen]

How about your Isaiah 26 verse is for those of Israel left when the vials of God's wrath get poured out?


It will happen when God comes out to punish...


The 7th trumpet is the earliest part where God can begin to destroy.

Rev. 11:18

So you're saying that a resurrection and hiding in rooms of Isaiah 26 is Israel?

What about the promises to the believers that we are not appointed to suffer wrath?

 

[HisdaughterJen]

There is a 42 month trampling of Jerusalem by Gentiles. (Rev 11)
There is a 42 month time of prophesying by Two Witnesses. (Rev 11)
There is a 42 month reign of beast.

The two witnesses are killed by the beast that rises from the abyss which happens in the 5th trumpet (Rev 9).

The two witnesses are also given power to strike the earth with plagues and turn water to blood which happens to also be mentioned in the first 3 or 4 trumpets.

So, it looks like the two witnesses and the beast are during the 7th seal.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

You put sooo much emphasis as to the wrath of God starts in the 6th seal because the bible has it there....


Great!!!

But why not care as much that it is also found in the time of the 7th trumpet?

Rev. 11:18

The time of the 7th trumpet is when the bowls of wrath are poured out on the earth.

 

[Zadok7000]

Just to repeat from the other thread:
I believe the Seals are the Seal of God in the forehead. They are the advanced knowdelge of the Trumpets. IE the same events. The Seals are not the events per se. Only the Trumpets are. And the Vials of Wrath are poured out upon His Return as the Elect are gathered to meet Him and His Army on Mt. Zion.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Just to repeat from the other thread:
I believe the Seals are the Seal of God in the forehead. They are the advanced knowdelge of the Trumpets. IE the same events. The Seals are not the events per se. Only the Trumpets are. And the Vials of Wrath are poured out upon His Return as the Elect are gathered to meet Him and His Army on Mt. Zion.

Well, don't you find it interesting that the seals of Rev are the same things the Jesus mentioned in Matt 24?

Wars, famines, plagues, pestilences, persecution/martyrdom...

Jesus said these are the beginnings of birth pains...birth pains (increasing frequency and intensity)...and have been going on since Christ left in the way He said they would.

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days (Seals 1-5), then (Seal #6-->) shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[Zadok7000]

Well, don't you find it interesting that the seals of Rev are the same things the Jesus mentioned in Matt 24?

Wars, famines, plagues, pestilences, persecution/martyrdom...

Jesus said these are the beginnings of birth pains...birth pains (increasing frequency and intensity)...and have been going on since Christ left in the way He said they would.

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days (Seals 1-5), then (Seal #6-->) shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

There are only 7 events. He told us before - that is the definition of a Seal. The Seals (In Matt. 24 or Revelation) are advanced knowledge of the Trumpets.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[garry2]

The bible doesn't say that the church is not appointed to any wrath.

It is clear that the church is not appointed to wrath that follows after salvation time comes.

Don't just take 1 Thessalonians 1:10 and draw your conclusions - add in what else the bible tells us.

For instance:
staying even right in 1 Thessalonians
5:9
"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.'

not wrath - but salvation

So the church must be here till salvation.

We are saved when we believe - have faith in Christ.

Okay, now builidng on the added fact that the church is here till salvation...
Consider Revelation 19:1-2 - it shows the great harlot is judged that corrupts the earth and then comes salvation.

Luke 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
Luke 18:42
And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

The bible doesn't say that the church is not appointed to any wrath.

It is clear that the church is not appointed to wrath that follows after salvation time comes.

Don't just take 1 Thessalonians 1:10 and draw your conclusions - add in what else the bible tells us.

For instance:
staying even right in 1 Thessalonians
5:9
"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.'

not wrath - but salvation

So the church must be here till salvation.

Okay, now builidng on the added fact that the church is here till salvation...
Consider Revelation 19:1-2 - it shows the great harlot is judged that corrupts the earth and then comes salvation.

But Vin, we are saved. We only await the Lord.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi jen

Your opening premis can not be true.

the seals do not contain the great tribulation.

Well the great tribulation comes between the fifth seal and the the sixth.

let us deal with one single point to start.

Would you agree that this verse

29: Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


and this verse refer to the same events

12: And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13: And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14: And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15: And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Hi jen

Your opening premis can not be true.

the seals do not contain the great tribulation.

Well the great tribulation comes between the fifth seal and the the sixth.

let us deal with one single point to start.

Would you agree that this verse

29: Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


and this verse refer to the same events

12: And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13: And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14: And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15: And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

Yes, as well as this verse:

Joe 2:31 The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.

 

[Just The Facts]

[FONT=&quot]Hi jen

Ok we agree on that....it is always good to start from a common point of agreement.

So now your premise implies that the whole chapter is taking place in a relatively short period of Time................Am I understanding this correctly .....[/FONT]

 

[HisdaughterJen]

[FONT=&quot]Hi jen

Ok we agree on that....it is always good to start from a common point of agreement.

So now your premise implies that the whole chapter is taking place in a relatively short period of Time................Am I understanding this correctly .....[/FONT]

No...Rev 6 appears to be desciptive of the final 2000 years, leading into the morning of the millenium and compares to Matt 24.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Have you ever noticed that at the end of each 'seven' there is an earthquake?

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Have you ever noticed that at the end of each 'seven' there is an earthquake?

Well, at the end of the seven trumpets, there's one. At the end of the seven bowls, there's one but it is the sixth seal that begins the day of wrath with an earthquake before the trumpets/bowls have begun.