Questions Wanted RE: Tattoos, Piercings, etc.

[rjs330]

You are defending tattoo's as a way to witness whereas the bible says differently as I pointed out to you.

Well you said I wasn't being truthful. I just wanted to,know what I was not being truthful on. I fully agree that the law forbade tattoos. So that's being honest. I also said we as believers in Jesus are not bound to the Law and I was being truthful on that. So I guess I am still confused as to where I was being untruthful.

To accuse someone of that is pretty serious. It would have to mean that I knew the truth and was deliberately being dishonest.

I have given scriptures to prove that we are not under the law as believers. That's hardly being dishonest.

You my friend,do believe we are under the law. I don't think your dishonest about that. I believe that is what you believe. I don't believe that and scripture backs that up. But if you want to live under the law that is fine. I have no issue with that. Just don't require that everyone must do the same. As you have no statements by Jesus or the apostles requiring us to live by the law, which means following all the tenents of the law including women not being able to attend church for 33 days after giving birth to a boy.

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[BornAgainChristian1]

Well you said I wasn't being truthful. I just wanted to,know what I was not being truthful on. I fully agree that the law forbade tattoos. So that's being honest. I also said we as believers in Jesus are not bound to the Law and I was being truthful on that. So I guess I am still confused as to where I was being untruthful

Yes I agree you still not being truthful because we are still to OBEY the law
To accuse someone of that is pretty serious. It would have to mean that I knew the truth and was deliberately being dishonest. Just a few verses to prove your error

Galatians 3:
10.For as many as are of the works of the Law, are under the curse: For it is written, Cursed is every man that continueth not in all things, which are written in the book of the Law, to do them.

Mark 10:
18 Jesus said to him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, even God.
19 Thou knowest the commandments, Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not bear false witness. Thou shalt hurt no man. Honor thy father and mother

Romans 7:25
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Then I myself in my mind serve the Law of God, but in my flesh the law of sin.

Romans 2:
12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.
13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

I have given scriptures to prove that we are not under the law as believers. That's hardly being dishonest.

That is your untruthfulness, just because you continue to repeat something I never said only shows you being deceptive.

You my friend,do believe we are under the law.

Please quote where I said this?

I don't think your dishonest about that.

Yes you are being dishonest here.

I believe that is what you believe. I don't believe that and scripture backs that up.

Again you are making things up because you've yet to quote where I made this claim.

But if you want to live under the law that is fine. I have no issue with that. Just don't require that everyone must do the same. As you have no statements by Jesus or the apostles requiring us to live by the law, which means following all the tenents of the law including women not being able to attend church for 33 days after giving birth to a boy.

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You seem to have reading comprehension skills because you continue to repeat things I never said.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Well it would be helpful if you pointed out where I wasn't being truthful. Perhaps I could then clarify for you So you wouldn't think I was being dishonest.

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Sorry, I wasn't referring to anything you said!

My bad! I was making a general statement about how things sometimes are.

I actually agree with your earlier statement that nowhere do the Lord Jesus or the Apostles discuss tattoos.

 

[faroukfarouk]

... How can I when Jesus has set me free, indeed? So, if I wanted to get a tattoo, I would. It's good to know I can IF I ever wanted to.

Motive counts for something; and some Christians find that faith based tattoo designs are effective in witness conversations.

 

[tickingclocker]

Motive counts for something; and some Christians find that faith based tattoo designs are effective in witness conversations.

Then, by all means, let them testify of God's wondrous glories, however they find a way to! As long as God accepts the motive of their heart (as only He can determine), glory to God!

 

[Jason Sanders]

I believe that, if a person wishes to get a tattoo, it is not inherently a sin- there is a wonderful set of verse in 1st Corinthians 8 about a subject similar to this that states that "...food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do." It speaks of eating meat sacrificed to idols ,which is absolutely against the law, yet Paul says that, if you know that the Lord is sovereign over all the Earth and that these idols are nothing more than bits of wood/stone, then you have nothing to fear from this meat as God is greater than any idol. However, the chapter goes on to talk about how, if you with your knowledge might lead one who is weak in his faith to do something that he believes to be a sin, then regardless of your knowledge it IS a sin, for you have sinned against a brother and, therefore, against Christ.

I said all of that to say this: Tattoo's are not inherently a sin, just as eating meat sacrificed to an idol is not inherently a sin, but be cautious when exercising your rights, lest you cause someone else to stumble and fall in their walk.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I believe that, if a person wishes to get a tattoo, it is not inherently a sin- there is a wonderful set of verse in 1st Corinthians 8 about a subject similar to this that states that "...food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do." It speaks of eating meat sacrificed to idols ,which is absolutely against the law, yet Paul says that, if you know that the Lord is sovereign over all the Earth and that these idols are nothing more than bits of wood/stone, then you have nothing to fear from this meat as God is greater than any idol. However, the chapter goes on to talk about how, if you with your knowledge might lead one who is weak in his faith to do something that he believes to be a sin, then regardless of your knowledge it IS a sin, for you have sinned against a brother and, therefore, against Christ.

I said all of that to say this: Tattoo's are not inherently a sin, just as eating meat sacrificed to an idol is not inherently a sin, but be cautious when exercising your rights, lest you cause someone else to stumble and fall in their walk.

Hi there! My wife and I talked to a young lady with the whole of John 3.16 inked on her wrist area; it was her favorite verse and mine also; and I'm sure other conversations have arisen as a result of her willingness to have it done.

Maybe you know other young Christians (or older ones, too) who have something similarly like this done? (e.g., Christian fish sign <><, etc.)

 

[Jason Sanders]

Hi there! My wife and I talked to a young lady with the whole of John 3.16 inked on her wrist area; it was her favorite verse and mine also; and I'm sure other conversations have arisen as a result of her willingness to have it done.

Maybe you know other young Christians (or older ones, too) who have something similarly like this done? (e.g., Christian fish sign <><, etc.)

Several actually!

Many of the worship leaders in my church have tattoos, as well as a good portion of our members, so I have affair bit of experience with the topic, though I don't have any tattoo's myself (keep those needles AWAY from me, thank you very much!). It's a common thing, and an easy conversation starter for people who wouldn't normally be approachable/receptive to Christianity.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Several actually!

Many of the worship leaders in my church have tattoos, as well as a good portion of our members, so I have affair bit of experience with the topic, though I don't have any tattoo's myself (keep those needles AWAY from me, thank you very much!). It's a common thing, and an easy conversation starter for people who wouldn't normally be approachable/receptive to Christianity.

Yes, it's a proven conversation starter. (I saw a quote in fact about people in churches in the Bible Belt, in relation to the proportion of women that have them.)

I guess nowadays it's not unlike getting earrings. Like, 30-35 years ago (maybe you wouldn't remember; and irrespective of whether you wear them) getting an extra pair of studs put in might have been regarded as being slightly edgy, fashion-wise, but now it's kind of almost standard for women; and a single pair for men is very widespread. So I guess by extension, if a tattoo is now a really mainstream way of expression, it's not surprising that so many Christians have it done as a well proven means of witness, as well as self-expression, right?

 

[rjs330]

Yes I agree you still not being truthful because we are still to OBEY the law
To accuse someone of that is pretty serious. It would have to mean that I knew the truth and was deliberately being dishonest. Just a few verses to prove your error

Galatians 3:
10.For as many as are of the works of the Law, are under the curse: For it is written, Cursed is every man that continueth not in all things, which are written in the book of the Law, to do them.

Mark 10:
18 Jesus said to him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, even God.
19 Thou knowest the commandments, Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not bear false witness. Thou shalt hurt no man. Honor thy father and mother

Romans 7:25
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Then I myself in my mind serve the Law of God, but in my flesh the law of sin.

Romans 2:
12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.
13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.


That is your untruthfulness, just because you continue to repeat something I never said only shows you being deceptive.


Please quote where I said this?


Yes you are being dishonest here.


Again you are making things up because you've yet to quote where I made this claim.


You seem to have reading comprehension skills because you continue to repeat things I never said.

I'm sorry I guess I made an assumption. Its my mistake, but an honest one. My assumption was based on the fact that the law forbade tattoos you were basing your belief in that. Requiring believers to follow something contained within the law but not in the New Covenant. So my mistake.

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[faroukfarouk]

...I have affair bit of experience with the topic...

PS: This is the quote I referred to, FYI:

Around here (Bible Belt), it is common, especially among evangelical Christians, for the girls under about 40 to have religious tattoos. More do than don't, especially when you get to the under 30 crowd. I hardly know any female at church that is under 30 that does not have a tattoo.

forums dot thewelltrainedmind dot

Whether or not this quote also rings true in your experience, it has become widely regarded as a benign and effective way of expressing a faith message (often combined with family and patriotic elements, also).

 

[Jason Sanders]

PS: This is the quote I referred to, FYI:




forums dot thewelltrainedmind dot

Whether or not this quote also rings true in your experience, it has become widely regarded as a benign and effective way of expressing a faith message (often combined with family and patriotic elements, also).

Well, I live in NJ, but its pretty common here too. Like, really common.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Well, I live in NJ, but its pretty common here too. Like, really common.

I think for your generation - if not for mine in my day - having it done at 18 is almost a kind of a rite of passage now for so many ppl; and apparently also 59%-70% of parlor clients in North America are female; years ago it used to be a man thing. However, now women get tattoos confidently and men pierce their ears; and it's not unusual that Christians use this means as a proven testimony means, or for that matter it's not unusual for Christian young men to pierce their ears, either.

I think getting tattoos and/or piercing their ears is something that, if they want to, both Christian men and women can today do with quiet confidence, right?

 

[faroukfarouk]

If I havent missed it, I would be interested in knowing How different colours "take" or hold up.. Ie are there colours to avoid or plan to get re-inked in the future, due to issues with fading? Colours that hold there tone best?.

Sounds like the one you're planning might now not be your last; or else it's a realization that after a few years a trip back to the parlor might in many cases be advisable.

 

[BornAgainChristian1]

I'm sorry I guess I made an assumption. Its my mistake, but an honest one. My assumption was based on the fact that the law forbade tattoos you were basing your belief in that. Requiring believers to follow something contained within the law but not in the New Covenant. So my mistake.

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Not a problem when the argument of the law comes up most misunderstand about the law is still in effect and we are to obey God's law but being a born again Christian we are no longer under the condemnation of the law. But on the other side of the coin those that are not saved are under the law and in fact condemned by the law. The truth about this whole mess is I did a study on those that are saved and it is very disturbing that very few will actually be saved and the majority of the human race will by there own choice spend eternity in hell. It bothers me greatly.

Matthew 7:13-14
¶ Enter in at the strait gate: for it is the wide gate, and broad way that leadeth to destruction: and many there be which go in thereat. Because the gate is strait, and the way narrow that leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Matthew 20:16
So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many are called, but few chosen

Matthew 7:13-14
¶ Enter in at the strait gate: for it is the wide gate, and broad way that leadeth to destruction: and many there be which go in thereat. Because the gate is strait, and the way narrow that leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few chosen.

Luke 13: 23-28
23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that shall be saved? And he said unto them,
24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
25 When the good man of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye began to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us, and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are,
26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are: depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the Prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out at doors.

Romans 9:27-28
Also Isaiah crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel were as the sand of the sea, yet shall but a remnant be saved.
28 For he will make his account, and gather it into a short sum with righteousness: for the Lord will make a short count in the earth.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Well, I live in NJ, but its pretty common here too. Like, really common.

So I guess that in your area, then, it would not be regarded as even remotely unusual for either young men or young women from church to get inked with faith based designs (it used to be a man thing, but not any more) or, for that matter, young men to pierce their ears?

 

[RETS]

Not a problem when the argument of the law comes up most misunderstand about the law is still in effect and we are to obey God's law but being a born again Christian we are no longer under the condemnation of the law. But on the other side of the coin those that are not saved are under the law and in fact condemned by the law. The truth about this whole mess is I did a study on those that are saved and it is very disturbing that very few will actually be saved and the majority of the human race will by there own choice spend eternity in hell. It bothers me greatly.

Matthew 7:13-14
¶ Enter in at the strait gate: for it is the wide gate, and broad way that leadeth to destruction: and many there be which go in thereat. Because the gate is strait, and the way narrow that leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Matthew 20:16
So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many are called, but few chosen

Matthew 7:13-14
¶ Enter in at the strait gate: for it is the wide gate, and broad way that leadeth to destruction: and many there be which go in thereat. Because the gate is strait, and the way narrow that leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few chosen.

Luke 13: 23-28
23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that shall be saved? And he said unto them,
24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
25 When the good man of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye began to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us, and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are,
26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are: depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the Prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out at doors.

Romans 9:27-28
Also Isaiah crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel were as the sand of the sea, yet shall but a remnant be saved.
28 For he will make his account, and gather it into a short sum with righteousness: for the Lord will make a short count in the earth.

I agree to a point, Brother. I will have more to say a little later, as my tablet is behaving badly. Until then, may God bless you.

 

[98cwitr]

Do you see a female of any age with ear rings as the same as a tat?

Social norms don't constitute righteous behavior.

--

I got tattoos as an atheist, now I am indifferent to them. One still has meaning, but that meaning doesn't, in my mind, need to be inked on my body to still be real.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Social norms don't constitute righteous behavior.

--

I got tattoos as an atheist, now I am indifferent to them. One still has meaning, but that meaning doesn't, in my mind, need to be inked on my body to still be real.

A general comment I would make is that, regarding faith based tattoo designs, the reality of what is affirmed has nothing to do with the fact that it is expressed in ink. Where there is a widespread perception among Christians that faith based designs are very effective in witness conversations, the fact that they are done is often not because they are somehow necessary or inherently a blessing, but rather that they may be perceived as a very useful witness means, from a pragmatic perspective.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Then, by all means, let them testify of God's wondrous glories, however they find a way to! As long as God accepts the motive of their heart (as only He can determine), glory to God!

Well, a lot of Christians find faith based designs to be effective in witness situations - maybe in your area, also.