Questions about Noah's Ark & the flood?

[Munising]

There were two sources of water for the flood.

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.
(Genesis 7:11 ESV)
​

There was rain which lasted for 40 days but also there was a geological upheaval which caused underground water to be released. This wasn't simply a flood but a complete change in the earth's topography. The water covering the earth was only one part of this.

The fact that the water covered the entire earth and even the tallest mountains shows that before the flood the earth was much flatter that it is today and none of the mountains was very high. The process that began the flood also ended it by causing part of the land to rise up and form the continents and mountains that exist today.

You covered it with the deep as with a garment;
the waters stood above the mountains.
At your rebuke they fled;
at the sound of your thunder they took to flight.
The mountains rose, the valleys sank down
to the place that you appointed for them.
You set a boundary that they may not pass,
so that they might not again cover the earth.
(Psalm 104:6-9 ESV)
​

You can find out a lot more information about the flood here:

Answers Magazine, Volume 2, Number 2 - Answers in Genesis

In what year(s) did Noah live?

Upon what basis do you believe the topography of the earth could change so much in what is considered such a short period of time?

 

[Munising]

Probably irrelevant since the flood story in Genesis isn't literal history.

-CryptoLutheran

I didn't think it was. Nor do I think any of the Bible is literal history. But why can't we all come to a mutual understanding of this?

 

[Munising]

Jesus referenced the story, because it was a story everyone knew. Referencing it doesn't show that it was literal history one way or the other.

I regard most of the pre-Abrahamic narratives in Genesis to be a formative mythology. These are stories answering questions like "why are there so many languages?" It's mythology, sacred, divinely inspired mythology, but mythology. As such the early Genesis stories aren't really intended to answer stories such as "how did Noah fit so many animals?"; the stories are intended to answer questions about theology, morality. They address the fundamental problems of sin and pain.

-CryptoLutheran

If this is true, then why:
1) isn't there a disclaimer in the Bible stating that it isn't meant to be taken as literal history?
2) does the Christian church teach that the Bible is literal history?

 

[Munising]

Jesus asked Nicodemus a question that applies to this discussion:

If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
(John 3:12 ESV)
​

If you don't believe the account of the flood is historically accurate how can you be sure that what it teaches about theology and morality is accurate?

What is the story of Noah's ark meant to teach about theology and morality?

 

[Munising]

Would this have been more recently than approximately 4,000 BC (or 6,000 years ago)?
I have no idea about that question.


How did they measure a year back then?
Are there any fossil records showing that men lived several hundred years back in that era? If so, where are the records?
The Bible is our proof men lived back then ^.^

What about the Bible makes it proof that men lived back then?

Did the flood cover the mountains in a small geographic region or the mountains world wide?
Wolrdwide. The flood itself was worldwide.

Is there anything in the story of Noah's ark to indicate Mt. Everest was not covered with water?
I don't think so. Mt. Everest was probably covered too.

So the elevation of the flood water was over 29,000 feet. How then did Noah, his family and the animals survive in such thin air without supplemental oxygen?

Where in modern day geography was this?
Like I said, the flood was worldwide. I don't know where Noah was.

What method did God use to measure the size of the ark?
Himself. He is the Almighty God!

Is God a measuring scale?

Approximately how many different species of animals were taken aboard the ark? 10? 100? 1000? 10,000?
All of the species on earth.

More than 10,000 species?
Less than 5,000 species?
"All of the species" doesn't provide a numerical value.

Did Noah hire helping hands to round up the animals?
How did the humans control any animals that may have been reluctant to board the ark?
His wife, sons, and sons's wives probably helped him. I don't think any animals were reluctant to board the ark .

I take this to mean that all currently living humans are direct descendants of Noah, his sons, his wife and his sons wives. Correct?
Yes, probably.

How then can you explain the very dark black people of Africa and the very light complexioned people of Scandanavia?

What ethnicity were Noah and the others on the ark?
I don't know.....

What did Noah do for food for his extended family and the animals during the flood?
He probably stored alot, or God provided it. Good question though.

How would God have provided it? What processes would have been involved for God to provide food to Noah?

Did God communicate this to him audibly?
Yes; he spoke to him.

If an audio recording of God speaking audibly were made and played back to a non-theist, would the non-theist hear precisely the same thing as a theist would hear?

Does that mean it rained very hard for an extensive period of time?
Yes; forty days and forty nights.

Were days & nights measured the same then as they are now?
Was a day then 24 hours long?
Were there 365 days in a year back then?

I take that to mean the excess water was blown off the earth. Correct?
The water receded from the earth very slowly. The wind was probably to command it to drain out.

Thanks for the answers.

 

[ViaCrucis]

If this is true, then why:
1) isn't there a disclaimer in the Bible stating that it isn't meant to be taken as literal history?

Get some money together and find a publisher to throw that in a heading. Though I think that's a waste of money.

2) does the Christian church teach that the Bible is literal history?

"The Bible" isn't a monolithic tome. It's a collection of texts compiled together.

If you walked into a library, would you ask the librarian if "the books here are literal history". Because in that library you're going to find a bit of everything: fantasy fiction, autobiographies, books of collected poetry, etc. What you would ask is "where can I find the fantasy fiction" or "where can I find the reference section?"

The word "Bible" itself means "books". Plural. The Bible contains books that are historically literal and true, and it contains books of poetry and song. It contains wisdom literature, such as the Proverbs or Job. It contains epistles, gospels, apocalypses.

As such the way you're going to approach the Bible is by recognizing the literary context of any given book found within small library.

Asking "is the Bible literal" is like asking if your local library is "literal". Some is and some isn't, and we find that through critical analysis of the text and finding out what the author(s) was/were trying to convey within the time frame that they wrote it (and noting for whom it was written). I'm going to read a psalm differently than I'm going to read an epistle--they are very different sorts of literature.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Stormwave]

I always wonder what happened to all the water. I mean, it had to have come from somewhere and gone somewhere.

Of course, back then they didn't understand the water cycle, but we do now. Water cannot just magically appear in vast quantities and then disappear.

 

[ChristianT]

I always wonder what happened to all the water. I mean, it had to have come from somewhere and gone somewhere.

Of course, back then they didn't understand the water cycle, but we do now. Water cannot just magically appear in vast quantities and then disappear.

Actually it can. Tsunamis, Rogue Waves, etc. massive amounts of storm surge too, would cause increased flooding, or perhaps reservoirs in higher places over time would spill out. Of course I'm in the same understanding as Cryptolutheran.

 

[Stormwave]

Actually it can. Tsunamis, Rogue Waves, etc. massive amounts of storm surge too, would cause increased flooding, or perhaps reservoirs in higher places over time would spill out. Of course I'm in the same understanding as Cryptolutheran.

Tsunamis and rogue waves are the cause of displacement of water, not additional water. To flood the entire earth, it would require a lot more water than we currently have on earth.

 

[theophilus40]

Why say "Springs of the great deep" when more people will understand if you say "from the ground"?

Why say "The floodgates of Heaven" when more people will understand if you say "from the sky"?

It seems to me that people don't have any problem understanding the terms used in the Bible.

Upon what basis do you believe the topography of the earth could change so much in what is considered such a short period of time?

Psalm 104:6-9 clearly says that it did.

Is there anything in the story of Noah's ark to indicate Mt. Everest was not covered with water?
I don't think so. Mt. Everest was probably covered too.

So the elevation of the flood water was over 29,000 feet. How then did Noah, his family and the animals survive in such thin air without supplemental oxygen?

It is more likely that Mt. Everest was formed as part of the geological upheaval that ended the flood.

More than 10,000 species?
Less than 5,000 species?
"All of the species" doesn't provide a numerical value.

The Bible doesn't say Noah had every species but every kind. God created only a few kinds of life and overtimes their descendants formed different species as a result of natural selection. You can learn more details about that here:

Zonkeys, Ligers, and Wolphins, Oh My! - Answers in Genesis

“Species” and “Kind” - Answers in Genesis

How then can you explain the very dark black people of Africa and the very light complexioned people of Scandanavia?

People adapted to their environment by the process of natural selection.

Were days & nights measured the same then as they are now?
Was a day then 24 hours long?
Were there 365 days in a year back then?

That could have been the case but it is possible that the catastrophic events that caused the flood could have affected the speed of the earths rotation. If the days were 21 minutes longer before the flood there would have only been 360 days in a year. This will explain what I mean:

http://www.christianforums.com/blogs/u318632-e80590/

 

[theophilus40]

I always wonder what happened to all the water. I mean, it had to have come from somewhere and gone somewhere.
[/quote
I have an entry in my blog that answers that question:

http://www.christianforums.com/blogs/u318632-e80570/

 

[Stormwave]

I always wonder what happened to all the water. I mean, it had to have come from somewhere and gone somewhere.
[/quote
I have an entry in my blog that answers that question:

http://www.christianforums.com/blogs/u318632-e80570/

Unfortunately land doesn't just "rise up". Land is also displaced, normally via tectonic plates colliding. This doesn't explain anything, and still doesn't explain where all the water came from. Rain has to come from somewhere.

 

[ChristianT]

I tend to believe that the earlier accounts of Genesis tend to answer theological questions and set up the mindset passed down to them, through "inspired mythology" in Via Crucis' terms.

I'll answer your questions with the idea that the flood actually happened, but was local to a people in a shallow area below sea level.

Approximately what year(s) did the flood occur in?

Perhaps 4000 B.C.

How long did the flood last?

roughly a year ("source:" How Long Did the Flood Last? | Noah's Ark: Beyond Flannelgraph)

How deep was the water?

Considering the area must have been perhaps 20 feet below sea level (as the waters covered the nearest "hills" for 20 feet)

Were any areas of land accessible during the flood?

Yes; assuming that the area was in the Mediterranean sea area (and the flood occurred due to the strait of Gibraltar opening up, as one theory has it). The thing is, for where Noah may have been, to walk there would have been futile/fatal.

Where did Noah build the ark?

On land most likely near where his house/tent/abode was.

How large was the ark?

" The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits."
A cubit may range from 18 to 21 inches, some fix it at 18.
With the curvature of contemporary nautical craft, and in standard vector notation (length, width, height),
it may range from (450, 75, 45)ft to (525, 87.5, 52.5)ft.

How many different species of animals were taken aboard the ark?

An indefinite number of pairs of "two of all kinds on the earth."

How were the animals gathered up?

From Noah's flocks and herds that he tended, along with any other animals he may have wanted to salvage.

How many humans were on the ark with Noah?

I believe 8 people, Noah, his wife, his three sons, and their wives. The actual amount may vary depending on if he had more sons, if the sons could have more than one wife, and if he had daughters who were also taken aboard but not mentioned. So 8 people were revealed at the least.

Did any humans other than those on the ark survive the flood?

Those who weren't in that geographic location.

What modern day geographic region did Noah sail in the ark?

I believe it'd be somewhere in the Mediterranean or somewhere in the ancient Asia Minor. The actual location is never really mentioned, hence its mythological nature.

How long was Noah stranded in the ark with the animals?

Probably the whole year unless the ark made it to land before then.

How far in advance of the flood did Noah begin the construction of the ark?

For as long as it took Noah to construct the ark, perhaps the best case for its mythological nature.

What prompted Noah to construct an ark?

God's informing Noah of clearing the area out and salvaging him.

Was the ark constructed on land or in water?

On land.

If the ark was constructed on land, how was it moved to the water?

The water came to it, such as a large surge of tsunamic water or geographic such as the Strait of Gibraltar opening up.

Where did the water of the flood come from?

If in the Mediterranean, then the Atlantic Ocean; if in Asia Minor, then due to an unusually large flooding of the major rivers or a large tsunamic surge.

How did the water of the flood recede?

relative to the ark landing far or a great distance from its beginning location, I don't know. Relative to the cease of the large river output (perhaps due to the melting waters of the end of the last ice age, so pushing the time further back), I don't know.

 

[GrayAngel]

Were days & nights measured the same then as they are now?
Was a day then 24 hours long?
Were there 365 days in a year back then?

Don't know about the years, but days used to measured a little differently. They were counted by how many times they've seen sunlight. From now (afternoon) to tomorrow would be two days. The day ends at sundown.

 

[ebia]

If this is true, then why:
1) isn't there a disclaimer in the Bible stating that it isn't meant to be taken as literal history?

Why isn't there a disclaimer stating that it isn't meant to be taken as a recipe for cheesecake?

2) does the Christian church teach that the Bible is literal history?

No. The biggest parts of the Christian church, the RCC, the Eastern Orthodox and the Anglican Communion all teach that some of it is not literal history.

The obsession with thinking it should be all literal history is largely confined to modern, North American Protestantism.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Perhaps one of the best videos on Youtube on the subject. Featuring John Polkinhorne, N.T. Wright, Alister McGrath, etc.

Science and Genesis - N.T. Wright, John Polkinghorne, Allister McGrath - YouTube

-CryptoLutheran

 

[SkyBlade]

What about the Bible makes it proof that men lived back then? It says people lived back then, Noah being one of them.


So the elevation of the flood water was over 29,000 feet. How then did Noah, his family and the animals survive in such thin air without supplemental oxygen? God probably allowed them somehow to be able to survive


Is God a measuring scale? No, but he knows everything.


More than 10,000 species?
Less than 5,000 species?
"All of the species" doesn't provide a numerical value. I don't know how many there were back then.


How then can you explain the very dark black people of Africa and the very light complexioned people of Scandanavia? They adapted to their surroundings.


How would God have provided it? What processes would have been involved for God to provide food to Noah? I was just making an assumption when I answered that question.


If an audio recording of God speaking audibly were made and played back to a non-theist, would the non-theist hear precisely the same thing as a theist would hear? I don't know.


Were days & nights measured the same then as they are now?
Was a day then 24 hours long?
Were there 365 days in a year back then? I guess so.


Thanks for the answers. You're welcome, even though I guessed with most of them. I am no Bible expert. If you are really curious for answers more accurate than mine you can try posting in the Ask a Chaplain forum.

 

[theophilus40]

Some of the posters have said the story of the flood isn't literal history. Luke 3:23-37 gives us the genealogy of Jesus. Here is part of it.

the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech,
(Luke 3:36 ESV)
​

A real person can't be a descendant of an imaginary one. If the story of Noah and the flood isn't literal history then how can the story of Jesus be literal history?

 

[ebia]

Some of the posters have said the story of the flood isn't literal history. Luke 3:23-37 gives us the genealogy of Jesus. Here is part of it.the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech,
(Luke 3:36 ESV)
A real person can't be a descendant of an imaginary one. If the story of Noah and the flood isn't literal history then how can the story of Jesus be literal history?

A real person and a mythical person can be connected by an ancient genealogy. Genealogies are about inheritance and connection, not genetics.

 

[theophilus40]

A real person and a mythical person can be connected by an ancient genealogy. Genealogies are about inheritance and connection, not genetics.

How can a real person be related to or inherit something from a mythical person?