Question regarding divorce

[charligirl]

I don't believe that divorce is ever God's best for a couple, but sometimes it seems the only choice. However in your situation I don't thinkyou have biblical grounds for divorce.

We can never change our husbands, it's not our job to do that, all we can do is choose how we act towards them and change ourselves through prayer and time spent with God.

Prayer is the key, prayer is always the answer but in the case of marriage it is often either neglected or abused in the type of prayer prayed (eg; God make him/her stop doing that) The bible says that we are to win our husbands over by our gentle spirits and our conduct. I am assuming your husband is not saved from what you said about him not being religious - even more reason to pray and seek God for wisdom in how to act in your marriage situation.

'Power of a Praying Wife' is a great book which covers all aspects of praying for your husband, I have seen dramatic changes/answers to prayer/divine conversations arise since i started praying through it. i can't recommend it enough.

What you describe must be soul destroying for you, but I know that God can change it, I have seen it happen with many other marriages - but you have to be committed to praying through and hanging in there until you see God's victory in it.

Counselling is great, I agree it sounds like depression may be involved, but you also need to be praying and seeking God for yourself, to fill that place in you where your husband is failing. In fact we all have a place that only God can fill and all too often we often try and get our spouses to fill it- I know I look to my husband to satisfy me in certain areas when deep down I know he never can, that is God's job.

Commit to prayer for your marriage, with a trusted friend if possible who can encourage you and agree with you, seek out counselling/medical advice and spend time with God to heal and comfort you.

 

[Athene]

While we're on the subject of biblical grounds for divorce, technically there is only one reason for divorce according to the bible and that is adultery. There is no provision for domestic violance even though we know how catastrophic that is. I don't believe many of us would say to a woman who was regularly having the crap beaten out of her 'oh sorry dear, you don't have biblical grounds for a divorce, you're going to have to stay with your husband, have you thought about counselling and in the mean time here's the book 'Power of a Praying Wife'. Just consider that before you go on about 'biblical grounds for a divorce'.

Personally I think her husband needs the short sharp shock treatment, he needs to know that he has made her so unhappy that she is considering calling it quits on the whole situation. He needs to know that she's not going to tolerate this behaviour, this half a marriage.

 

[charligirl]

While we're on the subject of biblical grounds for divorce, technically there is only one reason for divorce according to the bible and that is adultery. There is no provision for domestic violance even though we know how catastrophic that is. I don't believe many of us would say to a woman who was regularly having the crap beaten out of her 'oh sorry dear, you don't have biblical grounds for a divorce, you're going to have to stay with your husband, have you thought about counselling and in the mean time here's the book 'Power of a Praying Wife'. Just consider that before you go on about 'biblical grounds for a divorce'.

I beg your pardon? I wasn't aware that I was going on about anything. This woman is not being phsically abused, if she was my advice would be totally different.

The OP asked for advice, this is a christian website, my advice is first and formost to pray. Implying that I am insensitive because I recommended a book to help her pray - or that I would condone a woman staying in a marriage whilst her husband was hitting her is completely out of order.

 

[BigNorsk]

First of all, based on what you have said, I would have to say that yes, your reasons basically sound selfish.

You say that you have tried to involve him in doing family things together. I would have to say that that sounds like you have tried to get him to do the things that you want to do, that it is you making the choice of what is and is not family activities.

Why don't you join him in what he considers to be the activities that he wants to do? Should I guess, because you don't enjoy them or aren't good at them.

Should we now guess why he doesn't join you in your activities? Could it be that he doesn't enjoy them or he isn't good at them?

See where I am going? I think you have set yourself up as the head of the household and in charge of deciding what you as a family should do. And, in no real surprise at all, he didn't jump onboard with you and so you have decided that that means he doesn't care and so on. Many men are really really sensitive to a dominating wife and honestly they will resist doing things, even things that they would otherwise do, in a power struggle against being told what to do.

The biblical wisdom to win over a husband by not saying a word is one of the great wisdoms in the bible and one of the absolutely most difficult things for women to do. You have chosen another route by telling him what he should be doing, and now you are experiencing the effects on your marriage.

I can hardly believe the solution to fixing the results of your nonbiblical behavior is by doing more unbiblical behavior and divorcing him. That won't fix anything, it's just a continuation of what's gotten you where you are today.

Why not, instead of condemning him, go and join him in whatever he is doing? You might just find that he isn't such a bad husband if you let him be a husband.

Marv

 

[AutumnDreamer]

While we're on the subject of biblical grounds for divorce, technically there is only one reason for divorce according to the bible and that is adultery. There is no provision for domestic violance even though we know how catastrophic that is. I don't believe many of us would say to a woman who was regularly having the crap beaten out of her 'oh sorry dear, you don't have biblical grounds for a divorce, you're going to have to stay with your husband, have you thought about counselling and in the mean time here's the book 'Power of a Praying Wife'. Just consider that before you go on about 'biblical grounds for a divorce'.

There are no biblical guidelines for divorce. According to scripture you need no reason to divorce your spouse. In any situation, provided you are planning to stay unmarried. However this woman is not just looking for a divorce, she is looking to divorce to find a new spouse, that has a guideline, in order to remarry you can only divorce on grounds of adultery, or if your non believing spouse leaves you.

 

[Momma2H]

What about the Bible passage that says if your spouse is unsaved you must live with them for as long as they'll live with you? Does the Bible not matter to anyone anymore? We can just toss it aside and make up our own rules to suit our own petty desires, or pick and choose which commands we want to obey? "I think God makes all kinds of exceptions to His laws"? What the heck is happening to Christianity if this is how Christians think??

Deuteronomy 24:1
When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.

BTW, there's no need for the hostility. I don't think caring for your safety is a very petty desire. (This is not regarding the OP.)

 

[Athene]

I beg your pardon? I wasn't aware that I was going on about anything. This woman is not being phsically abused, if she was my advice would be totally different.

The OP asked for advice, this is a christian website, my advice is first and formost to pray. Implying that I am insensitive because I recommended a book to help her pray - or that I would condone a woman staying in a marriage whilst her husband was hitting her is completely out of order.

I didn't mean to imply you are insensitive, I was merely nitpicking at the phrase 'biblical grounds for divorce' , domestic violance is not biblical grounds for divorce. These things need to be pointed out.

 

[Endless]

Deuteronomy 24:1
When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.

Since when do old testament laws supercede the law of Christ? Jesus himself says that law has changed. Matthew 19 7-9 is quite explicit.

Mat 19:7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
Mat 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
Mat 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except [it be] for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. Now of course 1 Corinthians 7 adds the one additional caveat.

1Cr 7:10 And unto the married I command, [yet] not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from [her] husband:
1Cr 7:11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to [her] husband: and let not the husband put away [his] wife.

This simply says ... if you divorce ... you may not remarry ...

1Cr 7:13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
1Cr 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
1Cr 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such [cases]: but God hath called us to peace.This is the answer to your delimma...

Phl 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Pray ... call upon our Lord to save your marriage. God gave us two commandments regarding marriage. Try them on.
Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Also recognize in the old testament a woman did not have the right to divorce her husband. So if we go by that verse then even in an abusive situation she would have to stay. Our Lord is Just and Merciful. He provides for our needs if we but trust Him and listen.

~M

 

[Momma2H]

Mat 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except [it be] for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. Now of course 1 Corinthians 7 adds the one additional caveat.

I'm sorry, but what does this (the red phrase) mean?

This is my original post regarding circumstances where divorce would be allowed...

Well, I think in some circumstances, divorce is necessary. Like in unequally yoked marriages where one spouse is saved and the other absolutely refuses to get saved and is abusive and has affairs, then that IMO, would be grounds for a divorce. In the OP's situation, I don't think divorce is the answer. There is just lack of communication and that can be fixed.

This is the reason for me psoting that Bible verse anyway, but since it's the Old Testament, I guess it doesn't count, but you've given me an even better verse, so thanks.

 

[ImaginaryVoyager]

There are two biblical grounds for divorce: One is adultery, as Jesus stated in Matthew 19:9--and abandonment of the marriage as Paul points out in 1 Cor. 7:15.

The 1 Cor 7:15 verse bears some further reflection. What does it mean 'to leave' a marriage? I don't think physical, emotional, or psychological separation is enough. I think the offending party must make conscious effort to destroy the marriage. Physical or sexual abuse certainly falls under that. A person who abuses their spouse in this way can be considered to be leaving the marriage, because, although they may be physically present, they are turning the relationship into something else entirely. Therefore, I think divorce is proper, with Biblical grounds, in cases of domestic violence.

Of course, this is all moot in this case, because it is obvious this situation presents no Biblical (or any other, really) grounds for divorce.

And kudos to BigNorsk for being the only poster yet with the guts to give the right answer to the OP's original question

 

[ahmunmun]

To the OP and others who are interested: Below is a biblically based article regarding marriage, divorce, and remarriage. If you find it helpful, good for you. If you don't like something that is said, please do not direct your comments at me. I am not the author, nor will I be responsible for defending the contents of this article.

From http://www.greatbiblestudy.com/marriage_divorce.php:

True Godly Marriage

There are so much confusion in the church today concerning marriage, divorce and remarriage. The Bible is clear that true marriage is something that God must put His stamp of approval upon, or else the couple are living in fornication or even adultery.
True marriage must be approved by God Himself
In God's Word, we learn that only God is able to truly join the two persons together in Holy matrimony:
Matthew 19:6, "Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."
This is not something we can do, our legal system can do, or anybody else here on earth... only God Himself can join two people together in true Holy matrimony.
Divorce? In the Bible?
That's right! Even though divorce was never meant to be from day one...
Matthew 19:7-8, "They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so."
...divorce was still acceptable when somebody married another person whom was out of God's will for them. In Ezra, we see an example of where the men of Israel went off and took up foreign wives which God hath not approved of for them, and they ended up sending back (divorcing) those foreign wives:
Ezra 10:10-11, "And Ezra the priest stood up, and said unto them, Ye have transgressed, and have taken strange wives, to increase the trespass of Israel. Now therefore make confession unto the LORD God of your fathers, and do his pleasure: and separate yourselves from the people of the land, and from the strange wives."
True marriage cannot be undone or broken
The Bible is clear that the tie between man and woman that God forms in Holy matrimony is not something that can be broken:
Matthew 19:6-9, "Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery."
Notice that because this tie is not broken, is it impossible to divorce a truly married couple (in God's eyes), and remarry them to somebody else. If we try it, they will end up committing adultery. Why? Because the true marriage tie God formed was never broken. You would still be married to that person that you divorced, thus any other attempts to marry somebody else would in vain, and if you have sexual relations with them, it is adultery in God's eyes:
Matthew 19:9, "And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery."
We cannot go before God and ask Him to break off a true marriage that was of Him. It will not work, and we will end up committing adultery, because the true bond that God formed will not be broken. There is only one exception where God will break up that which He hath joined together, and that is if a spouse is found being unfaithful, which I will explain below.
Mercy from an unfaithful spouse
God has allowed an exception for divorce because of fornication for the sheer sake of mercy:
Matthew 19:8-9, "He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery."
If a spouse is found to be unfaithful, then there is an option to opt out of the marriage, simply because God is merciful and does not expect us to stay married to an unfaithful spouse.
If a non-believing wife divorces a believing husband
The Bible also provides an exception in a case where a non-believer is married to a believer, and the non-believer divorces the believer. In such a case, the believer is not under bondage to the non-believer:
1 Corinthians 7:15, "But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace."
Can God form a marriage between unbelievers?
Absolutely! They will by no means experience God's best for their marriage until they come to Christ, but I wholeheartedly believe that God can put two people together even if they aren't Christians. My parents for example, are heading for their 50th wedding anniversary, and yet neither of them were committed believers when they were married. Even though my mother had an experience with the Lord as a child, she wasn't a committed believer at the time she married my father. My father makes it clear that he "knew that he knew" that my mother was the one that was meant for him. Later on in life, both of them gave their lives to Christ and served the Lord together. It has been an outstanding marriage, and yet it was set into motion long before either of them became committed believers. So yes, I believe God can join non-believers together.
Can a believer be married to a non-believer in the eyes of God?
Absolutely! The Bible even tells us that the unbelieving spouse is sanctified by the believing spouse, clearly showing us that the two can be married in the eyes of God:
1 Corinthians 7:14, "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy."
We are not to purposely marry a non-believer!
God's Word is also clear that we are not to purposely go out and marry a non-believer. If we are already married to one, that's one thing, but if we are planning to marry one, that's another story.
2 Corinthians 6:14, "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?"
A really good parable: "Who are you married to now?"
Let's say that you're a Christian woman who's been married twice. Your first marriage was to a guy who was in rebellion, which was clearly not a good choice. Your marriage with him lasted 2 years, and then ended in divorce. There was no fornication on either side of the fence, but it turned out a mess none the less. A few years later, you re-marry a wonderful man who dearly loves the Lord, and decide to have a family together. Ten years later, you have a beautiful Godly family, and a wonderful husband who cares for you and loves you deeply. The problem is, if you were truly married to the first husband, and since Godly marriages cannot be put asunder, you would be living in adultery with this man that is now your husband. Either that, or you were living in fornication back with your first husband (whom you weren't truly married to in God's eyes).
The big question is, which of your husbands did God join you to with a Holy tie that cannot be broken? If it were the first husband, then you would be living in adultery by living with your current husband, but if it were the man you are married to now, then you've committed fornication with the first 'husband'.
It's important to marry the right one
If God must approve of your marriage, and once united with somebody in true Holy matrimony you cannot be separated from them, then it is 100% vital that you make sure He's put His stamp of approval on your attempt to get married. If He has not approved of it, then you are going to live in fornication or even adultery with the other person!
A Godly spouse comes from the Lord
Proverbs 19:14, "House and riches are the inheritance of fathers: and a prudent wife is from the LORD."
Disclaimer: I did not write this teaching to cause couples to rush out and get a divorce, or for singles to hurry up and marry the first person they have a peace about. Please do not do that! It is quite possible for you to be married to the right one, and have the enemy trying to separate that which God hath joined together, as he is known to do such things. Wait upon the Lord, seek Him on the matter, and wait for His reply. Do not rush out and do something that you will later on regret! Many factors can be involved in any given situation... for example, maybe you have a less than perfect relationship with your wife, and are still attracted to somebody whom you've had sexual relations with years ago... it's quite possible that an unclean soul tie is drawing you back to the wrong one. That is why it is 100% vital that you hear from God before making a move. If you rush out and divorce the one that God has joined you to... it won't work, and you will be out of God's will. That person could then run off and marry Mr. Wrong, and end up committing adultery with them, while your stuck living single for many years... deeply regretting the choice you've made. Perhaps the best advise in marriage counseling, is for both the husband and wife to clean up anything their own lives that is not good (repent) and get their relationships with the Lord in order, then watch as God helps them repair their own relationships with each other. If your own life is not in order with God, then don't even think of making a move until it is!
​

 

[Carri20]

To the OP and others who are interested: Below is a biblically based article regarding marriage, divorce, and remarriage. If you find it helpful, good for you. If you don't like something that is said, please do not direct your comments at me. I am not the author, nor will I be responsible for defending the contents of this article.

From http://www.greatbiblestudy.com/marriage_divorce.php:

True Godly Marriage
There are so much confusion in the church today concerning marriage, divorce and remarriage. The Bible is clear that true marriage is something that God must put His stamp of approval upon, or else the couple are living in fornication or even adultery.
True marriage must be approved by God Himself
In God's Word, we learn that only God is able to truly join the two persons together in Holy matrimony:
Matthew 19:6, "Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."
This is not something we can do, our legal system can do, or anybody else here on earth... only God Himself can join two people together in true Holy matrimony.
Divorce? In the Bible?
That's right! Even though divorce was never meant to be from day one...
Matthew 19:7-8, "They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so."
...divorce was still acceptable when somebody married another person whom was out of God's will for them. In Ezra, we see an example of where the men of Israel went off and took up foreign wives which God hath not approved of for them, and they ended up sending back (divorcing) those foreign wives:
Ezra 10:10-11, "And Ezra the priest stood up, and said unto them, Ye have transgressed, and have taken strange wives, to increase the trespass of Israel. Now therefore make confession unto the LORD God of your fathers, and do his pleasure: and separate yourselves from the people of the land, and from the strange wives."
True marriage cannot be undone or broken
The Bible is clear that the tie between man and woman that God forms in Holy matrimony is not something that can be broken:
Matthew 19:6-9, "Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery."
Notice that because this tie is not broken, is it impossible to divorce a truly married couple (in God's eyes), and remarry them to somebody else. If we try it, they will end up committing adultery. Why? Because the true marriage tie God formed was never broken. You would still be married to that person that you divorced, thus any other attempts to marry somebody else would in vain, and if you have sexual relations with them, it is adultery in God's eyes:
Matthew 19:9, "And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery."
We cannot go before God and ask Him to break off a true marriage that was of Him. It will not work, and we will end up committing adultery, because the true bond that God formed will not be broken. There is only one exception where God will break up that which He hath joined together, and that is if a spouse is found being unfaithful, which I will explain below.
Mercy from an unfaithful spouse
God has allowed an exception for divorce because of fornication for the sheer sake of mercy:
Matthew 19:8-9, "He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery."
If a spouse is found to be unfaithful, then there is an option to opt out of the marriage, simply because God is merciful and does not expect us to stay married to an unfaithful spouse.
If a non-believing wife divorces a believing husband
The Bible also provides an exception in a case where a non-believer is married to a believer, and the non-believer divorces the believer. In such a case, the believer is not under bondage to the non-believer:
1 Corinthians 7:15, "But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace."
Can God form a marriage between unbelievers?
Absolutely! They will by no means experience God's best for their marriage until they come to Christ, but I wholeheartedly believe that God can put two people together even if they aren't Christians. My parents for example, are heading for their 50th wedding anniversary, and yet neither of them were committed believers when they were married. Even though my mother had an experience with the Lord as a child, she wasn't a committed believer at the time she married my father. My father makes it clear that he "knew that he knew" that my mother was the one that was meant for him. Later on in life, both of them gave their lives to Christ and served the Lord together. It has been an outstanding marriage, and yet it was set into motion long before either of them became committed believers. So yes, I believe God can join non-believers together.
Can a believer be married to a non-believer in the eyes of God?
Absolutely! The Bible even tells us that the unbelieving spouse is sanctified by the believing spouse, clearly showing us that the two can be married in the eyes of God:
1 Corinthians 7:14, "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy."
We are not to purposely marry a non-believer!
God's Word is also clear that we are not to purposely go out and marry a non-believer. If we are already married to one, that's one thing, but if we are planning to marry one, that's another story.
2 Corinthians 6:14, "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?"
A really good parable: "Who are you married to now?"
Let's say that you're a Christian woman who's been married twice. Your first marriage was to a guy who was in rebellion, which was clearly not a good choice. Your marriage with him lasted 2 years, and then ended in divorce. There was no fornication on either side of the fence, but it turned out a mess none the less. A few years later, you re-marry a wonderful man who dearly loves the Lord, and decide to have a family together. Ten years later, you have a beautiful Godly family, and a wonderful husband who cares for you and loves you deeply. The problem is, if you were truly married to the first husband, and since Godly marriages cannot be put asunder, you would be living in adultery with this man that is now your husband. Either that, or you were living in fornication back with your first husband (whom you weren't truly married to in God's eyes).
The big question is, which of your husbands did God join you to with a Holy tie that cannot be broken? If it were the first husband, then you would be living in adultery by living with your current husband, but if it were the man you are married to now, then you've committed fornication with the first 'husband'.
It's important to marry the right one
If God must approve of your marriage, and once united with somebody in true Holy matrimony you cannot be separated from them, then it is 100% vital that you make sure He's put His stamp of approval on your attempt to get married. If He has not approved of it, then you are going to live in fornication or even adultery with the other person!
A Godly spouse comes from the Lord
Proverbs 19:14, "House and riches are the inheritance of fathers: and a prudent wife is from the LORD."
Disclaimer: I did not write this teaching to cause couples to rush out and get a divorce, or for singles to hurry up and marry the first person they have a peace about. Please do not do that! It is quite possible for you to be married to the right one, and have the enemy trying to separate that which God hath joined together, as he is known to do such things. Wait upon the Lord, seek Him on the matter, and wait for His reply. Do not rush out and do something that you will later on regret! Many factors can be involved in any given situation... for example, maybe you have a less than perfect relationship with your wife, and are still attracted to somebody whom you've had sexual relations with years ago... it's quite possible that an unclean soul tie is drawing you back to the wrong one. That is why it is 100% vital that you hear from God before making a move. If you rush out and divorce the one that God has joined you to... it won't work, and you will be out of God's will. That person could then run off and marry Mr. Wrong, and end up committing adultery with them, while your stuck living single for many years... deeply regretting the choice you've made. Perhaps the best advise in marriage counseling, is for both the husband and wife to clean up anything their own lives that is not good (repent) and get their relationships with the Lord in order, then watch as God helps them repair their own relationships with each other. If your own life is not in order with God, then don't even think of making a move until it is!

Wow, thanks for sharing that. That's very helpful!

(I'm still not certain remarriage is ever ok though... Oh well.)

 

[TheDag]

You say that you have tried to involve him in doing family things together. I would have to say that that sounds like you have tried to get him to do the things that you want to do, that it is you making the choice of what is and is not family activities.

So in your opinion it is fine for a father to ignore his children and not go see the occasional play or concert at school? By doing this he is not loving his children. He could easily be causing problems for his children and most likely is judging by what has been said.

Why don't you join him in what he considers to be the activities that he wants to do? Should I guess, because you don't enjoy them or aren't good at them.

Depends on what those activities are. From the sounds of it they are activities that others can't join in. I've been in groups where they play video games and I felt really left out and ignored because there were no spare controllers for me to join in and am ignored simply because I'm not playing or they ignore me because they need to conentrate and don't like me talking and tell me to keep quiet. Have you stopped to check if that is the case? Or did you just presume she was able to join in or even was welcome to join him which she may not?

Should we now guess why he doesn't join you in your activities? Could it be that he doesn't enjoy them or he isn't good at them?

I do things i don't enjoy and aren't pleasant. Why? Because I love my wife. If you love your partner you will do things that you don't want to do. You will also do things that you don't think are neccesary but you do because it is important to your partner.

See where I am going? I think you have set yourself up as the head of the household and in charge of deciding what you as a family should do. And, in no real surprise at all, he didn't jump onboard with you and so you have decided that that means he doesn't care and so on. Many men are really really sensitive to a dominating wife and honestly they will resist doing things, even things that they would otherwise do, in a power struggle against being told what to do.

Have you asked if this is what she has done or are you presuming. I don't see anything in the OP that shows she has set herself up as the head of the household. She may be doing things that maybe her partner should be doing because he won't do them. Let's check first before making assumptions. If he refuses to do certain things that need to be done then someone needs to do them.

The biblical wisdom to win over a husband by not saying a word is one of the great wisdoms in the bible and one of the absolutely most difficult things for women to do. You have chosen another route by telling him what he should be doing, and now you are experiencing the effects on your marriage.

I think it is very difficult for any person to win someone over without words. Yet it is something we all should be trying to do. I would also ask what is the context of that biblical wisdom? Part of that context is that at the time it was acceptable for a husband to kill his wife or kids if he was unhappy with them. Lets be fair here. he has chosen to go against biblical wisdom as well. He has gone against the principle of being a good steward with what God has given them. He has gone against the principle that sex is part of any marriage and should not be withheld simply because he thinks he is past that stage in a marriage. This does not mean that sex should be provided on demand by the way I'm talking about continued withholding over long periods of time for no reason. He has gone against biblical wisdom on how he should treat his children by refusing to go to school plays or concerts. I could continue. If we are going to give advice then lets make sure it is balanced.

I can hardly believe the solution to fixing the results of your nonbiblical behavior is by doing more unbiblical behavior and divorcing him. That won't fix anything, it's just a continuation of what's gotten you where you are today.

Why not, instead of condemning him, go and join him in whatever he is doing? You might just find that he isn't such a bad husband if you let him be a husband.

She has allowed him to be a husband and father yet he refuses. Your saying simply because she may be doing something wrong doesn't excuse his actions. Marriage is not a contract where one party does something as long as the other party fulfills their side of the agreement. Rather you should keep your end of the bargain regardless because it is a covenant. So even if she was being behaving unbiblically it doesn't mean he has an excuse to mistreat her. He made a promise in his wedding vows. He needs to keep that promise.

 

[TheDag]

There are two biblical grounds for divorce: One is adultery, as Jesus stated in Matthew 19:9--and abandonment of the marriage as Paul points out in 1 Cor. 7:15.

The 1 Cor 7:15 verse bears some further reflection. What does it mean 'to leave' a marriage? I don't think physical, emotional, or psychological separation is enough. I think the offending party must make conscious effort to destroy the marriage. Physical or sexual abuse certainly falls under that. A person who abuses their spouse in this way can be considered to be leaving the marriage, because, although they may be physically present, they are turning the relationship into something else entirely. Therefore, I think divorce is proper, with Biblical grounds, in cases of domestic violence.

Continued neglect is abuse in Australian law and I certainly agree with that. Emotional or psychological abuse is just as bad as physical abuse in my opinion. One could argue it is worse because with physical abuse there are always groups who will help women out in these situations but when there are no physical scars people think it can't have done any harm and ignore them and think they don't need help. We were designed to be in relationship. Being denied that can be very harmful. Part of the problem with physical abuse is the emotional scars it leaves. The physical scars heal long , long before the emotional scars heal.

 

[TheDag]

If you don't like something that is said, please do not direct your comments at me. I am not the author, nor will I be responsible for defending the contents of this article.

From http://www.greatbiblestudy.com/marriage_divorce.php:

When I did a course on speaking something was said which I strongly agree with and I think is good advice.

If you preach it then you defend it.

So in future I think it would be best if you only posted articles you agree with and are happy to defend. if you don't agree with it why post it as advice. You may not be the author but by posting it you are making the statement that you believe it is biblical. I will look at the article but I will respect your wishes on this occasion and not direct any disagreement to you but in future if you post a link to an article I will assume you are happy to defend it.

 

[Carri20]

When I did a course on speaking something was said which I strongly agree with and I think is good advice.

If you preach it then you defend it.

So in future I think it would be best if you only posted articles you agree with and are happy to defend. if you don't agree with it why post it as advice. You may not be the author but by posting it you are making the statement that you believe it is biblical. I will look at the article but I will respect your wishes on this occasion and not direct any disagreement to you but in future if you post a link to an article I will assume you are happy to defend it.

Meh.. No big deal either way. If anyone has a problem with the article they can and should take it up with God, since at least most if not all of it is in perfect alignment with scripture. (I'm still not convinced it's ever ok to remarry after a divorce unless the former spouse is dead.)

 

[Endless]

I'm sorry, but what does this (the red phrase) mean?

This is my original post regarding circumstances where divorce would be allowed...

the original post is in fact NOT what I was replying to because your assessment was correct. but your statement regarding old testament law concerned me. that verse does in fact say that you are permitted to divorce ... and the divorce decree of the day included a statement permitting women to remarry. that law is dead and to use it for any reason save to exemplify the progression from legalism to grace serves no reason but to confuse the issue.

anyway ... glad we got that straightened out.

~M

 

[Endless]

Just my opinion but, I always find it a bit unsettling when a single person or a person who has been married less than a year or two claims they know all about life and marriage. They may know the rules, but they don't yet understand the complexities of human nature, nor the pain that some people endure. They want to shout the law instead of listening in love, but hopefully in time that will change.

In the newly married's defense, it's a sign of a wonderful future and hopefully they will always work together on their marriage. Just my opinions. I'm praying for the OP.

I will take the bait.

I personally am sharing the bible verses that tell the rules. Whether the OP chooses to divorce or not is ultimately her decision. As a "single person" I am still immersed in the word of God. the rules ARE there for a reason. the how to's and whyfor's i'm not offering advice on because NO i don't know how or why yet. but speaking strictly from the stand point of one who has spent the last 7 months studying God's word in regards to divorce and remarriage ... i do consider myself quite equipped to offer advice.

it is my responsibility to show my brothers and sisters in a non judgemental and loving way the path God would have us keep.

i do take that seriously and wouldn't do it if i didn't care.

~M

 

[Athene]

First of all, based on what you have said, I would have to say that yes, your reasons basically sound selfish.

You say that you have tried to involve him in doing family things together. I would have to say that that sounds like you have tried to get him to do the things that you want to do, that it is you making the choice of what is and is not family activities.

Why don't you join him in what he considers to be the activities that he wants to do? Should I guess, because you don't enjoy them or aren't good at them.

Should we now guess why he doesn't join you in your activities? Could it be that he doesn't enjoy them or he isn't good at them?

See where I am going? I think you have set yourself up as the head of the household and in charge of deciding what you as a family should do. And, in no real surprise at all, he didn't jump onboard with you and so you have decided that that means he doesn't care and so on. Many men are really really sensitive to a dominating wife and honestly they will resist doing things, even things that they would otherwise do, in a power struggle against being told what to do.

The biblical wisdom to win over a husband by not saying a word is one of the great wisdoms in the bible and one of the absolutely most difficult things for women to do. You have chosen another route by telling him what he should be doing, and now you are experiencing the effects on your marriage.

I can hardly believe the solution to fixing the results of your nonbiblical behavior is by doing more unbiblical behavior and divorcing him. That won't fix anything, it's just a continuation of what's gotten you where you are today.

Why not, instead of condemning him, go and join him in whatever he is doing? You might just find that he isn't such a bad husband if you let him be a husband.

Marv

You are making many many assumptions here, I dont see how you could possibly have got all that from the OP. I consider your post very sexist and a typical example of 'blame-the-wife-itis'. I see this in advice columns alot, the burden of making a marriage work is placed soley on the shoulders of the woman and if it fails it's her fault for not praying enough, not being submissive enough, being too demanding, all I have to say is bull, marriage is two people work.

 

[Endless]

Is the implication that I can't possibly be immersed in God's Word, or know what it says because I am married? If so, you don't know what you are talking about.

Not at all ... I was simply reflecting on my own capacity to offer encouragement and biblical guidance not yours.

...you'd have noticed that my reply to her was compassionate and kind.

i was not in any way saying that your posts were not genuine or compassionate or even motivated by God's Word. simply that i was offended by your statement that those of us with no marriage experience are not equipped to offer guidance.

Also, I think it a bit arrogant to assume no one else is able to lovingly help the OP or that you are the only one whose responsibility it is, because that is not true.

No it is NOT true and i never insinuated that no one else could offer valid and insighful counsel. my entire post was about the quality of the information that God has prepared ME as an individual to offer. YOU saying that because i didn't know the burdens and responsibilities of the married life prohibited me from being able to offer valid and loving guidance to a married woman was arrogant.

Finally, I was not baiting anyone, so please...that was just plain mean.

and i am sorry for the allegation that you were being accusatory. i have a wedding tomorrow and i AM a bit peevish and am taking things personally that perhaps i shouldn't. i shoudn't have taken offense at your comment and i am sincerely sorry if i took any amount of focus away from the OP.

that said ... any information that i have provided in my own posts is biblical and meant to guide and counsel thru the Word of God with kindness and loving compassion for my brothers and sisters in Christ.

~M