Question on CS Lewis

[Open Heart]

Timohthy was referring to myths of course they would be the myths jewish people may have read but I dont think Paul was being inclusive of that. He just meant myths in general.

I think that is just your bias against mythology talking. You are reading the text through grey tinted glasses.

 

[Open Heart]

Christian mythology is an oxymoron. Its not that I dont grasp it, but its unnecessary. Essentially making sense of God through myths was what cs lewis seems to be trying to do.

The very existence of Christian mythology proves you wrong.

 

[Open Heart]

He seems like a very complex man.
I did learn philosophy at university and cs lewis seems like the type who was so into reasoning and logic that he had to literally dig himself out of it. He seemed to swing between extremes and thus created elaborate metaphors. For when confronted with God, sometimes all mans wisdom and reasoning is chaff to the wind.

I know of an atheist who did the exact same thing. He was into fairy tales like tolkien and treated them as his bible.

When you have an extremely brilliant person, although they still have a preference for certain functions (thinking in the case of Lewis) even those functions that are not preferred (such as feeling) are developed to a high degree.

Your atheist aquaintance could have had a much worse choice of "Bibles" than the LOTR. At least the LOTR will give him a Christian world view (such as God being in control even in bad times, or the irony of salvation of the meek), and teach him Christian values and morality.

 

[dms1972]

He seemed to swing between extremes and thus created elaborate metaphors. For when confronted with God, sometimes all mans wisdom and reasoning is chaff to the wind.

Sometimes?



There is a sort of rationalism before conversion that is in the service of sin and away from God. When one becomes converted things happen - for Lewis his imagination was 'baptised' first, his intellect followed. Others following Kierkegarrd have a less intellectual journey, its existential and the will is central for them. But for Lewis that all came together, and he didn't become super-spiritual, or irrational, because conversion makes one truly human, not human in separation from God, but human in communion with God through Christ. What was his rationality became through conversion the good of reason that is a handmaid to the life of faith. The ability to reason well and to the glory of God is a gift. Thats not putting him on a pedestal to say he exercised the gift God had given him.

Mind and Heart were far more in balance in CS Lewis (after his return to Christianity), and in GK Chesterton, and Tolkien, to name a few than in most other writers (even theologians) in their generation.

Some people are bible believing, like Billy Graham, it comes down to "The Bible says..." and that is fine. Lewis was Bible believing too - even the difficult verses on topics such as hell he believed, because they were dominical - the Lord Jesus own words.

Can we get a clear picture of what you have actually read of CS Lewis. Forgetting films - just his books. How much have you read of any of those you have mentioned?

 

[dms1972]

Not saying dont tell them, but dont take fairy tales as gospel either and make more of them than necessary because they are myths. Fables. Not true. And narnia just comes under that category.

Thats pretty much the point those appreciative of Lewis in this thread have been making. Its not a Gospel.



Anyway I am for Narnia even if there isn't a Narnia!!!

(and thats a Marsh-wiggle - not a thingummy ;-)

 

[dms1972]

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[dms1972]

Also remember people read them When they are children, so of course they are going to have immature minds. In fact, if anyone is reading childrens stories still as an adult, I just would think they dont have anything better to do. Its like enlglish lit grads analysing alice in wonderland. It was horrible the first time you had these grown ups analysing a childrens story to death.

My dear Goodbook. Fairy-tales were originally written for adults - then they relegated them to the children's playroom when they mistakenly thought they had come of age during the time of the Enlightenment. But I absolutely agree they are analysed far too much when they should simply be read, by both children and grown-ups.

 

[Open Heart]

Can we get a clear picture of what you have actually read of CS Lewis. Forgetting films - just his books. How much have you read of any of those you have mentioned?

I was wondering that as well. Have you ever actually read the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe cover to cover? Or are you getting your information second hand?

 

[Open Heart]

Goodbook:
Not saying dont tell them, but dont take fairy tales as gospel either and make more of them than necessary because they are myths. Fables. Not true. And narnia just comes under that category.

Just spotted this. I have highlighted your error. Don't confuse historical with true. Myths are not historical, but they are true. They convey to us the deepest truths of the universe.

 

[MournfulWatcher]

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[dms1972]

Just spotted this. I have highlighted your error. Don't confuse historical with true. Myths are not historical, but they are true. They convey to us the deepest truths of the universe.

I take your general point. Its more that they may reflect truth and reality. Lewis thoughts about myth would be difficult to summarise in a forum post.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

From Myth became Fact, an essay by CS Lewis published in God in the Dock.

"The heart of Christianity is a myth which is also a fact. The old myth of the Dying God, without ceasing to be myth, comes down from the heaven of legend and imagination to the earth of history. It happens — at a particular date, in a particular place, followed by definable historical consequences. We pass from a Balder or an Osiris, dying nobody knows when or where, to a historical Person crucified (it is all in order) under Pontius Pilate. By becoming fact it does not cease to be myth: that is the miracle"

Myth was something which presented almost imperceptible truths while being stories, which ultimately points man toward the True Myth of the Incarnation in Lewis' view. Another good place to read about his views of myth outside of the above Essay would be Lewis' essay On Orpheus, which explains it nicely solely in terms of a 'myth about myths'.

 

[Open Heart]

"The heart of Christianity is a myth which is also a fact. The old myth of the Dying God, without ceasing to be myth, comes down from the heaven of legend and imagination to the earth of history. It happens — at a particular date, in a particular place, followed by definable historical consequences. We pass from a Balder or an Osiris, dying nobody knows when or where, to a historical Person crucified (it is all in order) under Pontius Pilate. By becoming fact it does not cease to be myth: that is the miracle"

JOY!

As Tolkien wrote, all myths point us to the one historical, incarnational myth, that of Christ.

 

[Goodbook]

Myths are incomplete in that they, like Paul was saying to the athenians often point to an unknown God.

But myths can also just be stories of false gods. I dont think there is much edifying about learning about them if you know the truth already. They would be scramblings in the dark. For example, in chinese culture theres all these myths about the monkey king.
But they do have a story about creation, except in their version, it is the snake that creates men and women. In chinese myths about different dieties, they are concerned with things like immortality. But not knowing the truth, they worship creation more than the Creator.

 

[Goodbook]

I think cs lewis was getting mixed up with myths, and stories like parables.

I am reading a biography about him and really there are certain things he grasps but other things he misses or he does it in such a roundabout way that his point is lost. This is probably as a product of his oxford education at the time?

Anyway what struck me is he was very popular as an apologist but he wasnt of course a theolgian and church people didnt like that. His mere christianity, was deliberately non biased toward any denom although me reading it in this age it does strike me that be cant keep from being anglican. Like he would refer to things and words that only anglican people would use. But I think the appeal was that he was trying to get to a personal and intellectual faith rather than a faith that is lived out in a church community, which is how it generally works in real life!

 

[Goodbook]

Hmm just thinking of this atheist guy I used to know, and how obssessed he was with LOTR. Maybe I should have told him that Tolkien professed christianity, Or given him Narnia to read. Narnia is often seen as THE christian fantasy story, but what about LOTR. Apparently, it was Tolkien who told Lewis the gospel and that made him change his atheist mindset.


Both stories though, i think while appealing, I would have issue with because they do in a way, glorify witchcraft. Fairy stories do the same thing. There is always a witch or a wizard in these stories and a heroine or hero often has to use some kind of counter witchcraft to break the spell. But none of them use what is most effective in casting out demons...the name of Jesus.

 

[Goodbook]

I have read mere christianity and screwtape letters and the sequel, and also read lion witch and the wardrobe as a child.

I havent read any of the others. There was a short one i read think it was called a grief observed about his wife death? Of course I wouldnt be saying anything if I hadnt actually read some of his work!!! That would be silly. But I havent read ALL of his writings so please forgive me I dont have the time or inclination to, i was really put off by screwtape letters and didnt get much out of mere christianity, although it was for the audience of his day, not today.

 

[Goodbook]

Surprised by Joy ..was that about his courtship with his wife. i cant remember if I had read it or it was quoted so much by other people that I had just read it in snippets anyway.
It was a loong time since I read Narnia as a child but I didnt go on to read the rest of the series. Even when it came out as film i thought, hmm maybe I ought to read it again but just didnt get round to it.

I do remember it having an impact on me as a child, mostly in terms of the wardrobe being a portal to another world in my imagination, but the story about aslan it didnt strike me as a christian story, it was just like one of those aesop fables where the lion is helped by the mouse. Of course good triumphs over evil, but it didnt lead me to think about God or anything.

 

[Goodbook]

In fact, the movie Frozen seemed to take elements of Narnias story and that was from an earlier tradtional tale called the Snow Queen, which is basically about a witch.

 

[Open Heart]

Myths are incomplete in that they, like Paul was saying to the athenians often point to an unknown God.

But myths can also just be stories of false gods. I dont think there is much edifying about learning about them if you know the truth already. They would be scramblings in the dark. For example, in chinese culture theres all these myths about the monkey king.
But they do have a story about creation, except in their version, it is the snake that creates men and women. In chinese myths about different dieties, they are concerned with things like immortality. But not knowing the truth, they worship creation more than the Creator.

Oh, I love the monkey king!!!! Chinese mythology would be so dry without him.

Myths are never "just stories of false gods." They always teach deep truths. And they alway point to the one Myth that is indeed incarnate.

While Chinese traditional religion does tend to worship nature, this sort of religion always inevitably evolves into something quite different. In China, the idea of Tao came into being. CS Lewis would say that Tao was Logos. From Tao Te Ching #25:

Something mysteriously formed,
Born before heaven and earth.
In the silence and the void,
Standing alone and unchanging,
Ever present and in motion.
Perhaps it is the mother of ten thousand things.
I do not know its name.
Call it Tao.
For lack of a better word, I call it great.