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Pope, Orthodox Patriarch look to new council at Nicea

Discussion in 'The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox' started by Michie, May 30, 2014.

  1. Anhelyna

    Anhelyna Ukrainian Greek CATHOLIC CF Ambassador

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    Err - some of us do use leavened bread :D
     
  2. Columba7

    Columba7 Newbie

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    Poor logic. Just because the mass media misinterpreted what he said and he didin't correct them does not de facto mean he endorses their interpretation. Read it in context, not how you want to, but I recommend looking up the article "Does Pope Francis support gay civil unions? No, no, no" on the very secular and liberal "Slate" where they discuss how badly the media has taken his comments out of context. Pope Francis supports Catholic teaching on marriage and even today came out in defense of it.

    Anti- what kind of capitalism? There are a lot of different types. Further, there have been a lot of Orthodox elders who have criticized capitalism as well.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 3, 2014
  3. gurneyhalleck1

    gurneyhalleck1 The Orthodox Dark Knight Rises!

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    Are you flaming me?
     
  4. gurneyhalleck1

    gurneyhalleck1 The Orthodox Dark Knight Rises!

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    It was a bad idea then, and is a bad idea now! :p And the East had serious theological problems with it pre-schism, too!

     
  5. Jesus4Madrid

    Jesus4Madrid Orthodox Christian (Moscow Patriarchate)

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    Sorry it took so long for me to respond, but this was noteworthy and very funny.

    There is no need for me to even think about posting here when you are always 5 steps ahead of me in writing what I would have ultimately written.
     
  6. Jesus4Madrid

    Jesus4Madrid Orthodox Christian (Moscow Patriarchate)

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    What seems bizarre to me when I read the Early Church is that the modern Pope of Rome is so determinant and could have such influence on the direccion of the Church. Are Roman Catholics comfortable that the immutable faith passed on to the Apostles is so easily reshaped based on who occupies the Roman See?
     
  7. E.C.

    E.C. Well-Known Member

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    At the defense of the EP, he's trying to placate the European and international community in order to use some leverage on Turkey. The problem is that 1) it is simply not the case and +Bartholomew knows it and 2) the EU could actually recognize him as a "pope of the east" out of sheer ignorance.

    Bad.
     
  8. Michie

    Michie Manipulation Resistance Team Supporter CF Ambassador

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  9. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member

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    some seem to be. Popes make changes and a lot of Catholics treat it like it's old hat, like Rome always really, truly thought that way. like when the Creed without the filioque was deemed permissable because it was the more ancient Creed (so still correct, just not as specific), and then friends of mine in college acted like that is how Rome always viewed the filioque.
     
  10. Columba7

    Columba7 Newbie

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    I don't know what flaming is, but the moderators said I was. I will remember that in the future that you can say "this argument displays invincible ignorance" but you can't say "this author displays invincible ignorance."
     
  11. gurneyhalleck1

    gurneyhalleck1 The Orthodox Dark Knight Rises!

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    Calling me ignorant is flaming. Keep in mind that I would NEVER call you ignorant or imply that you're so ignorant and foolish that you're invincibly ignorant...that would NEVER happen in a disagreement with me, Columba. It's unfortunate that you needed to resort to that when we could just continue the discussion and not make things personal. It's especially odd for an Orthodox Christian to say such a thing to another Orthodox. I would never do that....period.

     
  12. Columba7

    Columba7 Newbie

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    Feel free to call me whatever you want. I would find it no more offensive than some of the non-flaming things people say in this forum.

    As for my part, forgive me. I will make sure to only criticize the arguments of individuals in the future.

    Continuing the discussion, my other criticisms still stand. I think you are being unfair to Pope Francis. I don't think everything you have said is wrong, but I especially take issue with your claim that he endorses the LGBT community. Many of our own clergy and elders speak in an irenic matter regarding the LGBT community even though they see homosexuality as sinful. It might be better to say he hasn't spoken out against homosexuality as strongly as you would like?
     
  13. gurneyhalleck1

    gurneyhalleck1 The Orthodox Dark Knight Rises!

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    I won't call you names, and the fact that you're ok with that gives me pause. We shouldn't ever want to receive or give insults. I won't be doing that.

    In my opinion, the Pope is very sympathetic to the gay cause. If you're against something, you make it very clear. When he got on that "who am I to judge" line of speech, the gay community quickly came out with their angle that he endorses their agenda. He said nothing to the contrary. He was endorsed again, nothing. There were Yahoo and MSN stories right and left labeling him the pro-gay pope and he just kept silent. I thought that was insane. So, yes, I will agree with you that he hasn't made an official ex cathedra pronouncement that the Catholic Church is not officially into gaydom, but you must admit that a challenge that goes without response and being addressed gives the air of acceptance. If you also throw in his pathetic ambiguity regarding homosexual civil unions in his home country, he has a history of pandering to the LGBT agenda.

    The Catholic Church, like our Church, needs clarity. This is a dark time for Christendom in the world. You either proclaim loudly the moral imperatives that we Christians must live by, or you stay quiet and let the bullies of the LGBT army continue to make inroads. And make no mistake, they are gaining ground not only on seculars, but also on Christians! There are plenty of Catholics who are ok with the LGBT rubrics of morality now. When a Pope throws out ambiguity and allows gays to put him on a magazine as their champion, that speaks volumes.

    Now here I am a mere 39-year-old sixth grade teacher. I'm no patriarch, no theological master, no Pope, but here's what I would've said.

    "I want to make it clear as Pope that my statements about being judgmental toward homosexuals is not an endorsement of the lifestyle or a condoning of it in any way. My aim was to make clear the fact that we must not single out people with same-sex attraction as targets nor should we cheapen their dignity as human beings. While I fervently teach as Pope that active homosexual intercourse and relationships are sinful, I know that this is a legitimate struggle that many of our brothers and sisters undergo in this fallen world that we live in. We must support the dignity of our brothers and sisters struggling with this sin, but we must also keep in mind our own sins that include lust, divorce, greed, avarice, gluttony, refusal to forgive, warmongering, murder, adultery, and so much more. Let us not single these folks out, but rather encourage them to approach the Divine Physician, Jesus Christ. We must maintain our love and prayers for people struggling with same-sex attraction.

    But I want to make it clear that I am not a champion of the homosexual lobby, nor do I claim the titles that many gay magazines have attributed to my words putting my picture on their issues. I am not endorsing nor will I endorse same-sex marriage or same-sex attraction as a healthy state of life. God bless you all."

    Now if I can be lucid enough to know how to respond, and I'm a nobody, why can't the supposed descendent of St. Peter step up?

     
  14. Michie

    Michie Manipulation Resistance Team Supporter CF Ambassador

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    Vatican: no formal confirmation of plan for 2025 ecumenical gathering in Nicea




    Vatican: Too early to confirm 2025 Orthodox-Catholic summit (RNS)

    Prayer for Peace on June 8th: Bartholomew will be there too (Vatican Insider)

    Pope, Orthodox Patriarch look to new meeting at Nicea (CWN, 5/30)
     
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