MJ Only Pope Francis and the Jews

[seekingsolace]

During his first official meeting with Jewish leaders represented by a delegation of the International Jewish Committee for Interreligious Consultations (IJCIC) last July, Francis said, “Because of our common roots, a true Christian cannot be anti-Semitic.”

Well on that we agree.

 

[visionary]

Leon Dehon, whose beatification was delayed in 2005 following the death of Pope John Paul II, founded the Priests of the Sacred Heart order. http://www.jpost.com/Christian-News...back-sainthood-for-anti-Semitic-priest-405170

 

[Iscah]

I don't care who it matters to. It's still irrational.

This is a historically proven (and reoccurring) occultic system of rituals. Occultists wouldn't continually employ these same numbers and symbols if they didn't accomplish anything.

 

[Iscah]

I did read it. I just disagree. I'll wait for vis to clarify.

For me, such nonsense is not worth mentioning. It belongs in the category of reptilian shapeshifters and alien abductions. It's fun as fiction. I enjoyed the X-Files.

One should never dismiss anything offhandedly without considering the evidence, and there is evidence for all of these things. Whether the evidence proves anything is another matter entirely.

If one is confronted with something that seems implausible and merely scoffs and looks no further, then they've already won. Those who refuse to see have already lost.

 

[Iscah]

So Lulav, are you saying that you thing there is something significant about the commonality of those numbers?

We know God utilizes specific numbers (7, 12, 49, etc.) If God has numbers that are significant to Him, why wouldn't the enemy have numbers that are significant to him? Is it possible that numbers have other meanings that we aren't aware of?

 

[Open Heart]

This is a historically proven (and reoccurring) occultic system of rituals. Occultists wouldn't continually employ these same numbers and symbols if they didn't accomplish anything.

Humans are tenaciously superstitious. Mankind is not necessarily rational. Rationality has to be honed. And it does seem that some people are just naturally more superstitious than others -- it must be inborn. It does NOT accomplish a darn thing. People think that magic alters reality, but if it actually did, Las Vegas would be broke. All this stuff is a load of hooey.

 

[Open Heart]

We know God utilizes specific numbers (7, 12, 49, etc.) If God has numbers that are significant to Him, why wouldn't the enemy have numbers that are significant to him? Is it possible that numbers have other meanings that we aren't aware of?

They are traditional symbolic numbers, metaphors, that are sometimes used in literature. They have no magical ability, and they have no meaning when they come up coincidentally.

 

[visionary]

They are traditional symbolic numbers, metaphors, that are sometimes used in literature. They have no magical ability, and they have no meaning when they come up coincidentally.

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Grammar/Unit_One/Numeric_Values/numeric_values.html

 

[Open Heart]

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Grammar/Unit_One/Numeric_Values/numeric_values.html

This does not refute what I said. Unless deliberately placed as metaphors, numerical values are random and have no significance or magical power.

 

[Iscah]

Humans are tenaciously superstitious. Mankind is not necessarily rational. Rationality has to be honed. And it does seem that some people are just naturally more superstitious than others -- it must be inborn. It does NOT accomplish a darn thing. People think that magic alters reality, but if it actually did, Las Vegas would be broke. All this stuff is a load of hooey.

That's besides the point. This isn't some David Blaine, Criss Angel illusionist trick. These are rituals, rites and invocations of demons, fallen principalities and fallen angelic beings. If they accomplished nothing, those in power would not waste valuable resources, time, and energy invoking them. And not only once but several times. If you research into some of the greatest events in human history, you will invariably come across occultism of some kind. Why? Because it works. They know that demons can accomplish things on this plane and once they figure out what needs to be done, they can utilize their demonic power to accomplish their goals. If it was merely superstitious mumbo jumbo none of the elites who are currently in power would be so heavily intertwined with these occultic systems. As it stands now, involvement in these rituals seems to be a prerequisite for obtaining any power in this world. In other words, Jesus' words were true all along, HaSatan is the ruler of this world.

If this was merely some superstitious nonsense, then why did the angel tell Daniel that the Father responded to His prayers immediately but the Prince of Persia stopped the messenger angel and would have detained him indefinitely were it not for the assistance of the other angels?

 

[Open Heart]

These are rituals, rites and invocations of demons, fallen principalities and fallen angelic beings. If they accomplished nothing, those in power would not waste valuable resources, time, and energy invoking them.

I think you and I have a serious disagreement here. I think that a lot of what goes on in non-Christian religions is just nothingness. For example, idols aren't necessarily demons, they are simply stone, clay, and metal. Magic is empty words and stupid rituals that accomplishes nothing. I DO believe in demons, but I think most of non-christian religion is just so much balogne. It's like the story of Daniel and the idol Bel--Daniel proves through his brilliant detective work that Bel is not eating the sacrifices, but it is the wicked priests that are coming in through a secret door who eat the food at night: Bel is NOTHING but a fraud. http://www.usccb.org/bible/daniel/14

But their idols are silver and gold, made by human hands. Psalm 115:4

The idols of the nations are silver and gold, made by human hands. Psalm 135:15

 

[visionary]

I think you and I have a serious disagreement here. I think that a lot of what goes on in non-Christian religions is just nothingness. For example, idols aren't necessarily demons, they are simply stone, clay, and metal. Magic is empty words and stupid rituals that accomplishes nothing. I DO believe in demons, but I think most of non-christian religion is just so much balogne. It's like the story of Daniel and the idol Bel--Daniel proves through his brilliant detective work that Bel is not eating the sacrifices, but it is the wicked priests that are coming in through a secret door who eat the food at night: Bel is NOTHING but a fraud. http://www.usccb.org/bible/daniel/14

But their idols are silver and gold, made by human hands. Psalm 115:4

The idols of the nations are silver and gold, made by human hands. Psalm 135:15

I know another ritual... turning wine into His blood and wafers that are turned into His flesh.. Swallowed hook, line, and sinker.

 

[Iscah]

I think you and I have a serious disagreement here. I think that a lot of what goes on in non-Christian religions is just nothingness. For example, idols aren't necessarily demons, they are simply stone, clay, and metal. Magic is empty words and stupid rituals that accomplishes nothing. I DO believe in demons, but I think most of non-christian religion is just so much balogne. It's like the story of Daniel and the idol Bel--Daniel proves through his brilliant detective work that Bel is not eating the sacrifices, but it is the wicked priests that are coming in through a secret door who eat the food at night: Bel is NOTHING but a fraud. http://www.usccb.org/bible/daniel/14

But their idols are silver and gold, made by human hands. Psalm 115:4

The idols of the nations are silver and gold, made by human hands. Psalm 135:15

I never mentioned idols. But even with idols, it is obvious that the people that constructed them are worshipping demonic entities. The idols do nothing, I agree with you there, but the "gods" they worship certainly do exist and do accomplish things in the material world. That is why the priest of the Pharoah could mimic what Moses was doing, that is why the ancients could claim that their "gods" were doing things for them. That is without dispute. It is seen in the Bible and outside of it. All magic is the invocation of demons in one form or another. The magic and rituals are simply the same forms of human suffering and spiritual adultery that they've always demanded as the cost for their servitude. It's the same reason why the ancients performed child and human sacrifices. Obviously God is the supreme authority but this world is under the authority of the evil one. Rituals are demonic invocations and that is the reason for their effectiveness, if it were merely dumb idols of silver and gold, they could do nothing.

 

[Open Heart]

I never mentioned idols. But even with idols, it is obvious that they are worshipping demonic entities. The idols do nothing, I agree with you there, but the "gods" they worship certainly do exist and do accomplish things in the material world. That is without dispute. It is seen in the Bible and outside of it. All magic is is the invocation of demons in one form or another. The magic and rituals are simply the same forms of human suffering and spiritual adultery that they've always demanded as the cost for their servitude. It's same reason why the ancients performed child and human sacrifices. Obviously God is the supreme authority but this world is under the authority of the evil one. Rituals are demonic invocations and that is the reason for their effectiveness, if it were merely dumb idols of silver and gold, they could do nothing.

Weeeell I'll go so far as to admit I don't know where the line is. I do agree that there are demons, and certainly human sacrifice is absolutely demonic. I'm glad you agree that idols do nothing.

Satan may be the "prince" of this world, but he is not the King of this world nor the God of this world. I think that demonic rituals accomplish nothing in most cases, though not all-- they can lead to demonic oppression and possession.

But demonic rituals certainly don't accomplish what they say they do. For example, a demonic ritual to win a battle is completely fruitless with regards to the battle. Battles are won due to strength and strategy unless God steps in.

Satan is only able to do what God directly allows him, as we see in the book of Job. Mostly Satan is allowed by God to tempt, in order to build our strength and faith. I'm afraid that much of the time we make Satan into a kind of god which he is not.

 

[Iscah]

Weeeell I'll go so far as to admit I don't know where the line is. I do agree that there are demons, and certainly human sacrifice is absolutely demonic. I'm glad you agree that idols do nothing.

Satan may be the "prince" of this world, but he is not the King of this world nor the God of this world. I think that demonic rituals accomplish nothing in most cases, though not all-- they can lead to demonic oppression and possession.

But demonic rituals certainly don't accomplish what they say they do. For example, a demonic ritual to win a battle is completely fruitless with regards to the battle. Battles are won due to strength and strategy unless God steps in. Satan is only able to do what God directly allows him, as we see in the book of Job.

The Bible and history seem to disagree with you. Why could the Pharoah's priest perfectly imitate what Moses was doing? Why were the Egyptian people so accustomed to displays like that? Why do we find so many records both in the Bible and in history of demonic "miracles" and happenings? Why was Satan able to give Jesus dominion over all the world? Jesus would have immediately known if Satan was lying so Satan wouldn't have tried that, so that means that it was true, that he does have power over all the world. The evidence of that truth is obvious in everything, from the reoccurring glorification of evil over good, from politics and the world system which oppresses and supresses goodness, the poor, and anything that comes from God, to society and people themselves. The lack of God in this world is evident, what is miraculous is that there still manages to be so much good. Yes, God is sovereign, but He can remain sovereign without micromanaging the world and without controlling every little thing and everyone in the world. Therefore the idea of Satan ruling the world while God remaining sovereign is compatible.

 

[Open Heart]

why could the Pharoah's priest perfectly imitate what Moses was doing? Why were the Egyptian people so accustomed to displays like that?

Illlusion, a la David Copperfield.

Why was Satan able to give Jesus dominion over all the world? Jesus would have immediately known if Satan was lying so Satan wouldn't have tried that, so that means that it was true, that he does have power over all the world.

Satan is the Father of lies. When Satan tempts us, he lies too. For Satan to have given Jesus dominion over the world, he would have had to have had God's express permission to do so. Perhaps he did, but we'll never know.

 

[Iscah]

Illlusion, a la David Copperfield. Satan is the Father of lies. When Satan tempts us, he lies too.

They were no more illusions than God's miracles are illusions, if they were then why does it say in Revelations that the antichrist will come performing signs and miracles? It doesn't say he'll come performing false signs and illusions. This means that the evil ones can perform "miracles" as well.

Satan is the Father of Lies, but God can see through them. He has the truth. That's the point. Jesus was not deceived, He is the truth. Therefore the truth must be that Satan does, in fact, controls this world. If this were not true, then why does any attempt to live out God's truth end in death, persecution, and failure?

 

[Open Heart]

They were no more illusions than God's miracles are illusions, if they were then why does it say in Revelations that the antichrist will come performing signs and miracles? It doesn't say he'll come performing false signs and illusions. This means that the evil ones can perform "miracles" as well.

Satan is the Father of Lies, but God can see through them. He has the truth. That's the point. Jesus was not deceived, He is the truth. Therefore the truth must be that Satan does, in fact, controls this world. If this were not true, then why does any attempt to live out God's truth end in death, persecution, and failure?

I believe that Pharoah's dudes were merely illusionists. You of course can have your own opinions. I am a preterist, so I believe the Anti-Christ already came and was Nero. I think that Jesus gave up much of his omniscience when he became incarnate as a man, just as he gave up his omnipresence.

It may seem like we have many differences, but really there is just one. You tend to have a miraculous world view, where supernatural beings do supernatural things quite often. Me? Although I allow for supernatural beings and happenings, I think they are few and far between, and that the world is by and large governed by the natural laws that God created it with.

 

[visionary]

I believe that Pharoah's dudes were merely illusionists. You of course can have your own opinions. I am a preterist, so I believe the Anti-Christ already came and was Nero. I think that Jesus gave up much of his omniscience when he became incarnate as a man, just as he gave up his omnipresence.

It may seem like we have many differences, but really there is just one. You tend to have a miraculous world view, where supernatural beings do supernatural things quite often. Me? Although I allow for supernatural beings and happenings, I think they are few and far between, and that the world is by and large governed by the natural laws that God created it with.

CERN is about to open up that door between the two dimensions this Sept 23rd.

 

[Open Heart]

CERN is about to open up that door between the two dimensions this Sept 23rd.

How so? And what two dimensions? I only know of four.