Pastor supporting Trayvon Martin defends church sign calling Zimmerman jury racist

[YoungJoonKim]

What thug culture we have more black men in college then ever, black women are doing well.......what are you talking about.

Oh you mean the american culture of violence that promotes mass murders, the highest rates of depression and mental illness in the world, poorly educated and uncreative citizens.

The black community is doing good for the most part. Our HBCU's are growing and improving, we are starting to build our own professional communities.........what are you talking about?

You know what I am talking about. I am talking about Detroit. I am talking about pre-1970 crime statistics and after. I am talking about uneven number of crimes committed by blacks. I am talking about incredible number of absent fathers in black communities who are serving time in jail. Sesame Street even has a doll dedicated for these issues. Yes, there are more blacks in colleges. And on average, there are more people in colleges than ever. And it is bankrupting them anyhow. Anyways, You think American culture promotes violence? What culture are you talking about?

 

[Hetta]

Good heavens, someone exercising both freedom of religion and freedom of speech at the same time? How can this be allowed?!?

Exactly!! This is what Christians should be doing. Making a protest - speaking out - campaigning. Good grief. Instead of sitting around complaining about how hard it is to be a Christian and how we have our rights taken away from us. Yes. In the first world, this is our complaint.

 

[Lollerskates]

I don't see what that has to do with anything do you stats are very flawed.

Statistics are categorically misleading, and actuary science exploits this. It sounds much better to say "this product worked 90% of the time" when the sample space/number of trials is 10, rather than to say "this product worked 60% of the time," when the sample space is 1000 trials. Now, in reality the latter product worked better in terms of raw "numbers of success," but the former statistic misleads one into thinking its product is very successful (even though the number of trials performed were 100x less than the other product.)

Likewise, saying that black men are statistically committing more crime is highly misleading, since there are roughly 18,000,000 black males in the States, compared to about 150,000,000 white males. So, saying for example "60% of black males are in jail for violent crimes compared to 15% white males" actually translates to 10,800,000 black males as opposed to 22,500,000 white males - literally more than double the amount of black males. But, just saying "60% of black males..." sounds so much better for the sake of argument.

 

[OathKeeper99]

[/indent]
What the ..? How creepy is that? You laugh at her description of any abusive husband? What is wrong with you?

I dunno, what is wrong with you?

Actually, I do need to be careful with my responses because a lot can be missed in words of an internet social chat.

Did you just take her word that there was an abusive husband? Or were there pictures of the abuse?

Perhaps a bloody nose?

Black eyes?

Gashes on the back of the head?

I don't have any of that.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I know exactly why Zimmerman chose to follow Trayvon. He said it on the tape. He said that he was following him because he was sick of these guys getting away with it. Trayvon was already a criminal in Zimmerman's sick, vigilante mind.

Because Trayvon was acting suspicious.

I've lived in an area where burglaries happened everyday. My own house was robbed several times. We knew what type of behavior to look for in terms of what was suspicious.

What you did isn't what everyone would do. She had more than one kid, and why should SHE leave? He was in HER space.

They were estranged...he was living in the house, she was living with her mother.

Why wasn't SHE allowed to stand her ground? She had recently had a baby so, right, under threat form her abusive estranged husband she was to calmly go around and get this child and that child, and get her baby, and then just walk right on out to go .. wherever you go with two little kids and a baby in your arms. And he was going to let her do that. Right.

SHE LEFT AND GOT A GUN AND CAME BACK. You think that she couldn't have left with the kids? She was living at her mom's house. The minute she got to that house and discovered he was there, she should've left immediately if she was so in fear of this guy.

And it's somewhat telling that the jury came back with a verdict in 15 minutes. And I suppose you're going to claim that they were racist too...

 

[Hetta]

So much for the 8th commandment, where we are to put the best construction on situations. This pastor is no different than Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. They LOVE to stir the pot. They cultivate racism, but only when it suits them.

And I guess that you said that to allllllllllll the Conservatives who, since the murder of Martin occurred, have defiled and slurred that boy's name. Did you come on those threads and tell them to stop insisting that he was using skittles and iced tea to make some sinister drug? (No, it was never for a moment an accusation against Martin, other than in their minds.) Did you tell them to stop inferring that he deserved to be murdered? Did any one of them put "the best construction on" Martin? But you expect this pastor to be better than everyone else .. because the majority white population showed him the way to do that ..? Right?

 

[Avniel]

Tell that pastor I said, go home pastor, you're drunk.

By the way, we all know that if Zimmerman was black, no one would care. Since Trayvon was killed, there's been thousands black guys killed by other black guys. Where is Al Sharpton whwn those men are killed? You want to talk about racism? Then talk about all the racism in the "black community".

By the way, remember all the white people who rioted after OJ Simpson's trial?....... Ya, me neither. Which group is really the racist one here? This pastor really needs to re read Exodus 22.

If Zimmerman was black he would be in jail.

Right AL Sharpton never did anything in the windy city? He didn't try nor does he have any movements in Chicago is what you are trying to tell me?

Don't use arguments you hear other people use.

 

[Lollerskates]

Oh, yes. But ...

Joseph denied his master's wife. There were false allegations and punishment for sure.

Ok, you are warming up to my point, but not quite. My point was not that deep.

All I was saying is that rape occurs with women as the aggressor, as in the case with Joseph. Now, remember what happened? Potiphar's wife threatened to tell Potiphar that Joseph indecently tried to come on to her if he didn't have sex with her. If Joseph was a weaker person (in faith,) he may have had sex with her for fear of his life. That is still rape - rape doesn't have to be violent or rough. But, since Joseph trusted Potiphar, and God primarily, he didn't go through with it. That is why I said attempted rape in that example. But, the main point was the commentary on how rape has been, and continues to be gender unbiased in all permutations.

 

[Avniel]

Because Trayvon was acting suspicious.

I've lived in an area where burglaries happened everyday. My own house was robbed several times. We knew what type of behavior to look for in terms of what was suspicious.



They were estranged...he was living in the house, she was living with her mother.



SHE LEFT AND GOT A GUN AND CAME BACK. You think that she couldn't have left with the kids? She was living at her mom's house. The minute she got to that house and discovered he was there, she should've left immediately if she was so in fear of this guy.

And it's somewhat telling that the jury came back with a verdict in 15 minutes. And I suppose you're going to claim that they were racist too...

How was Trayvon acting strange? He was walking slow and looking around at night time in area that had crime?????? Very strange.

 

[Avniel]

And I guess that you said that to allllllllllll the Conservatives who, since the murder of Martin occurred, have defiled and slurred that boy's name. Did you come on those threads and tell them to stop insisting that he was using skittles and iced tea to make some sinister drug? (No, it was never for a moment an accusation against Martin, other than in their minds.) Did you tell them to stop inferring that he deserved to be murdered? Did any one of them put "the best construction on" Martin? But you expect this pastor to be better than everyone else .. because the majority white population showed him the way to do that ..? Right?

Why would they he was black.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

And I guess that you said that to allllllllllll the Conservatives who, since the murder of Martin occurred, have defiled and slurred that boy's name. Did you come on those threads and tell them to stop insisting that he was using skittles and iced tea to make some sinister drug? (No, it was never for a moment an accusation against Martin, other than in their minds.) Did you tell them to stop inferring that he deserved to be murdered? Did any one of them put "the best construction on" Martin? But you expect this pastor to be better than everyone else .. because the majority white population showed him the way to do that ..? Right?

I've gotten on a good number of people who have been saying stuff about Trayvon. I've even lost a good number of "friends" over this issue. And currently, this thread has to do with the pastor, not the "conservatives" you're railing against.

I expect a pastor to be better because he's a pastor, just like people expect my husband to be better. I expect a pastor to not incite hate. I expect a pastor to not play the race game. It's sad, really. Avniel thinks people like me are the reason black men are leaving the church, but perhaps it's people like this pastor that are causing the exodus.

 

[Hetta]

Because Trayvon was acting suspicious.

I've lived in an area where burglaries happened everyday. My own house was robbed several times. We knew what type of behavior to look for in terms of what was suspicious.

They were estranged...he was living in the house, she was living with her mother.

SHE LEFT AND GOT A GUN AND CAME BACK. You think that she couldn't have left with the kids? She was living at her mom's house. The minute she got to that house and discovered he was there, she should've left immediately if she was so in fear of this guy.

And it's somewhat telling that the jury came back with a verdict in 15 minutes. And I suppose you're going to claim that they were racist too...

Trayvon was walking. That's not suspicious unless you're a young black man walking. You must have seen evidence that didn't show up in court because nowhere did anyone aver that he was acting suspiciously, only that he was a "suspicious character" i.e. black.

I know that Alexander was estranged from her husband - I stated that myself in my post - but even though it wasn't her home, it was her space. It was the home she went to to get away from her husband, so he was the intruder.

I guess you must be superwoman, because scooping up two little kids and a baby and running out the door while an abuser chases you - that might be difficult for most woman. I don't believe he would have let her go. I believe she did the right thing to stand her ground and let him know that she would use deadly force if required. I would do the same thing in her place, except I wouldn't fire any warning shots, it would go straight through his heart.

 

[I Eat Pie]

If Zimmerman was black he would be in jail.

Right AL Sharpton never did anything in the windy city? He didn't try nor does he have any movements in Chicago is what you are trying to tell me?

Don't use arguments you hear other people use.

There's only so many arguments in the world that can be used for this subject. If black leaders really cared about black people, they would tackle the problem of violence as a whole, or at least come out and say "Hey. We have to stop killing each other and have to start working together". What it sounds like is "It's ok for one of us to kill each other, but if whitey does it, then let's gab the torches and pitchforks".

That's one problem I have with some black people I've met. They only address problems that happen to blacks. They isolate themselves, and it just seems like they don't like anyone else.

But on topic, I'm glad he had a gun to defend himself. It's unfortunate that a young man(a young man, not a young BLACK man) lost his life, but hopefully, this violence will go down some day.

 

[Hetta]

I dunno, what is wrong with you?

Actually, I do need to be careful with my responses because a lot can be missed in words of an internet social chat.

Did you just take her word that there was an abusive husband? Or were there pictures of the abuse?

Perhaps a bloody nose?

Black eyes?

Gashes on the back of the head?

I don't have any of that.

I'm talking about the Preacher's Wife right here that just said she was abused by her ex husband and who you responded to and asked her - with another of those oh so funny laughing icons - why she divorced that husband. Do you not believe her? Preacher's wife, this guy needs photos of your abuse? Oh, and he thinks it's funny that you divorced your abusive husband.

 

[OathKeeper99]

I've gotten on a good number of people who have been saying stuff about Trayvon. I've even lost a good number of "friends" over this issue. And currently, this thread has to do with the pastor, not the "conservatives" you're railing against.

I expect a pastor to be better because he's a pastor, just like people expect my husband to be better. I expect a pastor to not incite hate. I expect a pastor to not play the race game. It's sad, really. Avniel thinks people like me are the reason black men are leaving the church, but perhaps it's people like this pastor that are causing the exodus.

I sure hope you take the time to see pastor mannings message to sabrina Fulton that I posted after the OP.

I think this is a little golden insight to all.

 

[Avniel]

Trayvon was walking. That's not suspicious unless you're a young black man walking. You must have seen evidence that didn't show up in court because nowhere did anyone aver that he was acting suspiciously, only that he was a "suspicious character" i.e. black.

I know that Alexander was estranged from her husband - I stated that myself in my post - but even though it wasn't her home, it was her space. It was the home she went to to get away from her husband, so he was the intruder.

I guess you must be superwoman, because scooping up two little kids and a baby and running out the door while an abuser chases you - that might be difficult for most woman. I don't believe he would have let her go. I believe she did the right thing to stand her ground and let him know that she would use deadly force if required. I would do the same thing in her place, except I wouldn't fire any warning shots, it would go straight through his heart.

As a father I think firing a warning shot and not aiming at someone capable of hurting babies is really being a superwoman.

 

[Hetta]

As a father I think firing a warning shot and not aiming at someone capable of hurting babies is really being a superwoman.

 

[Avniel]

There's only so many arguments in the world that can be used for this subject. If black leaders really cared about black people, they would tackle the problem of violence as a whole, or at least come out and say "Hey. We have to stop killing each other and have to start working together". What it sounds like is "It's ok for one of us to kill each other, but if whitey does it, then let's gab the torches and pitchforks".

That's one problem I have with some black people I've met. They only address problems that happen to blacks. They isolate themselves, and it just seems like they don't like anyone else.

But on topic, I'm glad he had a gun to defend himself. It's unfortunate that a young man(a young man, not a young BLACK man) lost his life, but hopefully, this violence will go down some day.

So what you are saying is black leaders do not try to tackle these problems? You are saying that black leaders do not say "hey let's stop killing each other and work together?"

Why do you feel like this and why do you say that?

http://landing.newsinc.com/shared/video.html?freewheel=91046&sitesection=wgn_localnews&VID=24918220
Just like Dr. MLK, we went to the same college ,


http://landing.newsinc.com/shared/video.html?freewheel=91046&sitesection=wgn_localnews&VID=24946006
Same way the supported Trayvon's parents in a march????


THey don't do anything right?????????????

We as a community are fighting violence right now, what are you talking about?

 

[OathKeeper99]

As a father I think firing a warning shot and not aiming at someone capable of hurting babies is really being a superwoman.

Superwoman shooting guns at her husband? Really? Really?

I will give both of you the benefit of the doubt that you both really dont know the real story because both of you are on the wrong side of the facts fron the Zimmerman case and can't be bothered with facts.

Ta-ta...

 

[Lollerskates]

See, the real reason why there will never be a serious "American conversation about race" is because people to whom racism does not affect are ignorant if the depth of it in the first place. Some are downright dismissive of it. I suppose that is natural that they would be ignorant of something like racism if it doesn't affect them because it is painful to see and experience. However, it is psychologically lazy, and highlights the privilege of not being affected by racism - true racism. For the people that are forced to live it every day in all of its facets, and then experience the ignorance and dismissal of what they go through do not even bother hoping for a better future on race relations.

When I was in the states, I respected Southern racism much more than the Northeastern racism because at least some southerners were blunt: you know what you are getting. Passive aggressive racism, and ignorance are the worst because there is no two-way acknowledgment of the problem. I am grateful there are some people in the world (and on this forum) that literally leap out of their comfort zones, and observe racism and prejudice for what it is anywhere in the world. But, those types of people are few and far in between. It takes a lot of mental fortitude to drop all of your previous prejudices and ignorance in exchange for open-mindedness, sociological vigilance, and empathy.