Not a Debate

[OzSpen]

PrincetonGuy,

A woman having a nightmare in which her daughter defied God and became a pastor is not evidence that the daughter who subsequently sinned against God was called by God to commit that sin.

What on earth are you talking about? Are you trying to disparage this Baptist woman in ministry, Martha Stearns Marshall? If so, please provide the evidence to support your extremely negative claims.

'Who Was Martha Stearns Marshall?'

Oz

 

[mikedsjr]

Demonstration that she has the gift of teaching/preaching in a local church. However, most women won't even get an opportunity to determine this in many conservative local churches outside of certain denominations.

The Church of the Nazarene, the Salvation Army, the Quakers, Pentecostal and Charismatic groups, and some Baptist denominations in my country of Australia, encourage and support women in ministry. In most other denominations they won't be able to demonstrate the gift in a mixed audience.

That's like saying women didn't get the chance to say they could fulfill the priestly duties in the OT, because they were held down by the man. If churches are using Scripture for guidance, then there is a clear answer there. Why be offended by Churches just reading Scripture as it states, "....man of one wife....". it isn't like its a mystical belief that can't be discerned from Scripture conceptually.

I had no clue SA were a church. I don't support their founders theology, since they were willing to do away with sacraments altogether just to do church, but willing to have women pastors. '

Again, there is probably less than 5 women leaders today on radio, TV, podcasts, books that would properly handle God's word. Again, unless someone wants to show a sermon by Martha, I have no opinion on whether she is able to rightly handle God's word.

I can respectfully agree to disagree on the subject of woman pastors. Where I draw battle lines is at rightly handling God's word. I'm committed to the fact few women do this that are public figures. I know one woman who has in the pulpit better than her husband. But she still isn't a preacher, as a profession. But most public men figures are incapable too, including Rick Warren. In many cases, I'm sure the issue isn't whether they know the Gospel properly, because my previous pastor was great at giving the gospel. But like my previous pastor, when it came to preaching, most recognized preacher don't teach Scripture anymore. They teach 5 ways to a better marriage, a vision casting, or what the church is doing, when Scripture says nothing of this. The sermon should always be on Scripture and context, not misapplied subjective life applications for selfhelp.

 

[OzSpen]

That's like saying women didn't get the chance to say they could fulfill the priestly duties in the OT, because they were held down by the man. If churches are using Scripture for guidance, then there is a clear answer there. Why be offended by Churches just reading Scripture as it states, "....man of one wife....". it isn't like its a mystical belief that can't be discerned from Scripture conceptually.

That's a false analogy. If churches are using Scripture for guidance, they will go to Scripture for understanding and interpret Scripture and not pass on the anti-women tradition.

This is my attempt to deal with Scripture and reject the tradition that has closed down women in ministry:

• Must women never teach men in the church?
• Women in ministry: an overview of some biblical passages
• Women wrongly closed down in ministry

'Man of one wife' is 'husband of one wife' (ESV) as a translation of 1 Timothy 3:2; Titus 1:6, but this is the qualification of an elder, not that of a preacher. The NIV translates as, 'faithful to his wife'.

Again, there is probably less than 5 women leaders today on radio, TV, podcasts, books that would properly handle God's word. Again, unless someone wants to show a sermon by Martha, I have no opinion on whether she is able to rightly handle God's word.

With that kind of statement, you have committed a hasty generalization logical fallacy. When you practice this in discussion, we can't have a reasonable (logical) discussion.

I had no clue SA were a church. I don't support their founders theology, since they were willing to do away with sacraments altogether just to do church, but willing to have women pastors. '

It's time you got to know church history and the foundation and continuation of the Christian denomination, the Salvation Army. William and Catherine Booth, who founded the Salvos, were originally Methodists in the UK. Both of them were involved in ministry and the Salvation Army from its beginning in the UK has both men and women as 'officers' (ordained ministers). My wife was raised in this Christian denomination, the Salvation Army, in Australia. In the USA, you may only recognise the Salvos for their humanitarian work, but worldwide they have an effective evangelistic and discipleship ministry with both men and women in ministry.

I can respectfully agree to disagree on the subject of woman pastors. Where I draw battle lines is at rightly handling God's word. I'm committed to the fact few women do this that are public figures. I know one woman who has in the pulpit better than her husband. But she still isn't a preacher, as a profession. But most public men figures are incapable too, including Rick Warren. In many cases, I'm sure the issue isn't whether they know the Gospel properly, because my previous pastor was great at giving the gospel. But like my previous pastor, when it came to preaching, most recognized preacher don't teach Scripture anymore. They teach 5 ways to a better marriage, a vision casting, or what the church is doing, when Scripture says nothing of this. The sermon should always be on Scripture and context, not misapplied subjective life applications for selfhelp.

I also am committed to rightly handling the word of truth, but my interpretation of it is different to yours. You seem to have chosen to disagree with me, based on your own interpretation. There are divergent interpretations of these Scriptures on women in ministry. You have given me yours and for you, this is the ONLY interpretation and it makes mine (by inference) wrong. This is how you stated it,

If churches are using Scripture for guidance, then there is a clear answer there. Why be offended by Churches just reading Scripture as it states

There is NOT A CLEAR ANSWER as there are a number of interpretations of what you think is clear. Your interpretation is anything but clear to me as coming from Scripture. It is clear as a tradition, but I can't support it from Scripture.

Oz

 

[PrincetonGuy]

PrincetonGuy,

You wrote:


Is that according to your interpretation or mine regarding women in ministry (1 Cor 14; 1 Tim 2)?

You wrote:


According to your interpretation or mine?

It gets down to hermeneutics. In your response to me, you presented your anti-women in ministry hermeneutics. We've debated this in another thread. I disagree with your interpretations that close down God's gifted women in ministry to men and women.

Oz

No, it gets down to whether we believe the Bible, or we believe ourselves and what seems right to us in our modern world. Consequently we have homosexual deacons, elders, pastors, and even Bishops—all who were “called by God” to fulfill that role as evidenced by this or that. Similarly, we have female deacons, elders, pastors, and even Bishops—all who were “called by God” to fulfill that role as evidenced by this or that. It took about 1,800 years for women to deceive the men into believing that they were called into the pastoral ministry, and it has taken about a century longer for homosexuals to deceive congregations and denominations into believing that they were called into the pastoral ministry. Who and what kind of people are next?

 

[PrincetonGuy]

'Man of one wife' is 'husband of one wife' (ESV) as a translation of 1 Timothy 3:2; Titus 1:6, but this is the qualification of an elder, not that of a preacher.
Oz

Let us not confuse preachers and pastors. The job of a preacher is to preach; the job of a pastor is to exercise a position of leadership (προΐ́στημ&#953. The BDAG Lexicon (2000) gives us the following two meanings for the Greek word προΐ́στημι:

1. to exercise a position of leadership, rule, direct, be at the head (of)
2. to have an interest in, show concern for, care for, give aid

The italics are theirs, not mine.

This lexicon says that the meaning in 1 Tim. 5:12 is “certainly” meaning number one. Our translators agree.

1 Timothy 5:17. The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching. (NASB, 1995)

1 Timothy 5:17 Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching; (RSV)

1 Timothy 5:17 Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching. (ESV)

1 Timothy 5:17 Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, {Or [compensation]} especially those who labor in preaching and teaching; (NRSV)


Luke Timothy Johnson, Professor of New Testament at the Chandler School of Theology at Emory University in Atlanta Georgia, translates, “govern.” (The Anchor Yale Bible, Volume 35A, Yale University Press, 2001, p. 277)

Philip H. Towner, Dean of the Nida Institute for Biblical Scholarship at the American Bible Society, New York City, translates, “direct the affairs of.” (The Letters to Timothy and Titus, New International Commentary of the New Testament series, William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 2006, p. 360)

William D. Mounce, Professor of New Testament and Director of the Greek Language Program at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, translates, “have been serving.” (Pastoral Epistles, Word Biblical Commentary series, Thomas Nelson, Nashville, Tennessee, 2000, p. 303)

George W. Knight III, teacher at Matthews Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Matthews, North Carolina, and adjunct professor of New Testament at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary’s Charlotte extension, translates, “rule,” “lead,” or “care for.” (The Pastoral Epistles, a Commentary on the Greek Text, The New International Greek Testament Commentary series, William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1992, p. 321)

Raymond F. Collins, Professor of New Testament at The Catholic University of America, translates, “have charge.” (I & 2 Timothy and Titus, The New Testament Library commentary series, Westminster John Knox Press, Louisville, Kentucky, 2002, p. 144)

Walter Lock, the late Lady Margaret Professor of Divinity in the University of Oxford and Canon of Christ Church, paraphrases the verse using the word “presided.” A Critical and Exegetical Commentary on The Pastoral Epistles, The International Critical Commentary series,: T. & T. Clark, Edinburgh, 1924, p. 61.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

The New Testament Church was born in a Hellenistic world under the rule of Rome which had substantially quenched democratic thought and practices. One might have expected the New Testament Church to rebel against Roman rule and press for a democratic form of church government but I do not find any such thing in the New Testament itself. Most New Testament scholar today agree that by the middle of the first century of the Christian era James, the half brother of Jesus, was the Bishop of the Church in Jerusalem, and in the book of Acts Luke portrays even Paul and Peter yielding to the authority of James who served with the assistance of other elders (Acts 15:2, compare Acts 15:23, 16:4, 21:18). Luke does not, however, tell us how James came to be the Bishop of the Church in Jerusalem or how the other elders came to be elders. I doubt, however, that the Christians held an election and voted James and the other elders into office.

We know a little more about the churches that Paul pioneered. He pioneered the churches from scratch, sometime with the help of Barnabas, and served as their pastor, or co-pastor with Barnabas, appointing elders (Acts 14:23, compare Acts 20:17; 1 Tim. 4:14, 5:17, Tit. 1:5) who apparently succeeded him when he moved to pioneer another church in another city. In writing to Titus, Paul told him to “appoint elders in every city” (Tit.1:5). The Greek word translated “elders” in these verses is πρεσβυτερους (presbuterous, from which we get the English words ‘presbyter’ and ‘presbytery’) which is translated interchangeably in our English versions as “bishops,” elders,” and “presbyters.”

However, in Philippians 1:1 we find Paul and Timothy addressing “all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, including the overseers and deacons.” The Greek word translated “overseers” in this verse is επισκοποις (episkopois, from which we get the English word ‘episcopal’) and the Greek word in this verse translated “deacons” is διακονοις (diakonois, from which we get the English word ‘deacon’). Luke, in the book of Acts, helps us to understand what an “overseer” was in the first century church when we compare Acts 20:17 & 28,

17. From Miletus he sent to Ephesus and called to him the elders of the church.

28. "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

We see from these two verses that the overseers were the elders of the church, that is, the men who presided over the assembly of the believers.

We see the same thing in Titus 1:5-9,

5. For this reason I left you in Crete, that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you,
6. namely, if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion.
7. For the overseer must be above reproach as God's steward, not self-willed, not quick- tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain,
8. but hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, just, devout, self-controlled,
9. holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.

As for the deacons, we find the following

1 Tim. 3:8. Deacons likewise must be men of dignity, not double-tongued, or addicted to much wine or fond of sordid gain,
9. but holding to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience.
10. These men must also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons if they are beyond reproach.
11. Women must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things.
12. Deacons must be husbands of only one wife, and good managers of their children and their own households.
13. For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a high standing and great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.

Apparently the deacons were officers in the church who assisted the overseers with the administration of the church, and apparently they were appointed by the overseers (or ‘elders’ or ‘the presbytery’), who themselves were appointed by men who were already overseers (or ‘elders’ or ‘the presbytery’) (Tit. 1:5) and probably ordained by the laying on of hands by the overseers (or ‘elders’ or ‘the presbytery’) ordaining them. It is interesting to note that in the New Testament that when it speaks of overseers (or ‘elders’ or ‘the presbytery’), it speaks of them in the plural. The concept of a single pastor and a board of deacons is absent.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

The Scriptures are as clear in teaching that women are not qualified to serve as pastors or in any other position in the church in which it is necessary for them to teach men or exercise authority over men. The qualifications for pastors are expressly stated in the New Testament, and those qualifications explicitly exclude women. A woman can “feel” that the Scriptures are unclear on essential points of doctrine, but the mere fact that she does not understand them does not make them unclear.

What we choose to “believe” as individuals is irrelevant to the fact that the Scriptures explicitly forbid women to perform the tasks of a pastor and the fact that the qualifications for pastors are expressly stated in the New Testament and those qualifications explicitly exclude women.

Throughout the New Testament, God is always, without exception, portrayed in a masculine role of authority and Lordship; and the church is always, without exception, portrayed in a feminine role of submissiveness to her husband and his authority. Church elders and overseers (the pastors in the New Testament church) are always, without exception, portrayed in a masculine role as the representatives and types of Christ in the church. Husbands are always, without exception, portrayed in a masculine role as the representative and type of Christ in the home.

Nonetheless, we find today that these fundamental New Testament teachings are being relegated to a trash can and women are usurping authority over men in both the church and in the home. The masculinity of males and the femininity of females is being confused and homosexual relationships are becoming not only common place, but seen as normal and healthy.

 

[OzSpen]

PrincetonGuy,

No, it gets down to whether we believe the Bible, or we believe ourselves and what seems right to us in our modern world. Consequently we have homosexual deacons, elders, pastors, and even Bishops—all who were “called by God” to fulfill that role as evidenced by this or that. Similarly, we have female deacons, elders, pastors, and even Bishops—all who were “called by God” to fulfill that role as evidenced by this or that. It took about 1,800 years for women to deceive the men into believing that they were called into the pastoral ministry, and it has taken about a century longer for homosexuals to deceive congregations and denominations into believing that they were called into the pastoral ministry. Who and what kind of people are next?

You and I disagree with our interpretations of the ministry of women portions of Scripture. I believe the Bible and so do you. But all of the Bible has to be interpreted grammatically, historically, contextually and culturally. You and I disagree on these interpretations re women in ministry.

It is a false dichotomy to say that it is between 'we believe the Bible' vs 'we believe ourselves'.

The homosexual vs women issue is your straw man. We can't have a logical conversation when you use a logical fallacy. I will not endeavour to have this with you as it is impossible.

Oz

 

[PrincetonGuy]

PrincetonGuy,


You and I disagree with our interpretations of the ministry of women portions of Scripture. I believe the Bible and so do you. But all of the Bible has to be interpreted grammatically, historically, contextually and culturally. You and I disagree on these interpretations re women in ministry.

It is a false dichotomy to say that it is between 'we believe the Bible' vs 'we believe ourselves'.

The homosexual vs women issue is your straw man. We can't have a logical conversation when you use a logical fallacy. I will not endeavour to have this with you as it is impossible.

Oz

It is a logical fallacy for you to disagree with me.

 

[OzSpen]

It is a logical fallacy for you to disagree with me.

Since when? What is the name of the logical fallacy? Is this your 'Appeal to Personal Belief Fallacy' that you have invented. It is explained this way: 'It is fallacious for anyone to disagree with another's personal opinion as personal opinions are essential in determining the meaning of any action and that meaning may change from time to time'. Is that the kind of fallacy you are inventing?

Oz

 

[Bluelion]

People the title of this thread is not a debate. Do Not Debate Women in ministry or I will ask it to be closed.

I started this thread to encourage women not debate, if you do not agree do not post in the thread, leave. Not every thread on here is a debate.

It show a really problem when men can not even encourage women.

If compare a woman in ministry to abomination to God, (comparing them to gays), then you must also be calling me and other an offense to God, because I believe women can be called. If that is the statements being made then my friend there is two groups of us. One who are children of God, and One who are children of satan. God's children do not hate each other or call them offense to The Father. To make such a claim shows hate, and God said who ever says they love God but hate their christian brother or sister is a liar.

I am not calling anyone a child of satan, but I am saying those who make such claims against children of God are as God said lairs.

if you can not love your brother a sister you better respect them, because you will answer to God for every charge you make against them. At least have fear of God. DO you think you will not be made to account for your words? God says you will be made to account. You better fear that and keep that in mind. Its not even my warning but God's. Read your Bible.

Again not pointing any one out i making a statement before things get out of hand. We are either the of the same family or enemies, but we are commanded to love either way. love each other, for the Love of God, love each other.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

PrincetonGuy,


What on earth are you talking about? Are you trying to disparage this Baptist woman in ministry, Martha Stearns Marshall? If so, please provide the evidence to support your extremely negative claims.

'Who Was Martha Stearns Marshall?'

Oz

Defying God by doing that which we have been expressly forbidden to do is a sin, whether we are Baptists, women, or famous people in Baptist history. God did not give us the Bible so that we could waste His time and ours looking for loopholes in His instructions and rationalizing why His instructions do not apply to us even though we are the people to whom the instructions were given.

Insisting that all Christians, including all Christian women, submit to the instructions in the Bible regarding serving as elders in the Church is not an act of “closing down” women or supporting an “anti-women tradition.” Women have their rolls in the Church, and men have their’s. It is a sin for the women to covet the rolls of the men; and it is a sin for the men to covet the rolls of the women.

During my early days as a pastor, I had a personal counselor who knew me very well and greatly helped me through especially difficult times that seemed to me to be hopeless. This counselor was man my age who was very well grounded in the word of God and who knew well the difference between faith and presumption. When he moved away to continue his education, God, in accord with His sovereign will, blessed me with a new personal counselor—a woman who, although a few years younger than I, had been anointed by God with divine wisdom and spiritual insight. She sensed when I needed her help and she discreetly came to me at those times and helped me with issues that none of the men in the congregation knew anything about. I was the senior pastor with six associate and assistant pastors (all men), but her role in the church was no less important than mine, and I could not have done my job without her help,

During this latter time, there was another woman in the church that served an important roll. She was in charge of the dinners that we served to the congregation and their guests six days a week, and the wife of my associate pastor. Serving the congregation dinner six days a week was expensive, and this woman insisted that we serve very nutritious, well-balanced meals prepared from very high quality fresh ingredients. When I asked her to cut back a little, she refused. She knew that God wanted us to serve the excellent meals, and she knew that God had placed her in her position so that she could do so. She was very respectful of me as a man and as the senior pastor, but she stood her ground because it was not just her ground, but that of God. I had the authority to fire her, but God had the authority to not permit it—and the authority to use her to be sure that the excellent meals continued to be served. On the other hand, had she interfered with my spiritual responsibilities, or dared to serve in a pastoral role, I would have stopped her even if it meant firing her.

God has called each one of us to serve Him in the ministries of His choosing—regardless of our preferences and regardless of what may make sense to us. It is our responsibility to spend time in studying the Scriptures and in prayer so that we will know His voice and have the courage and fortitude to obey Him.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

It show a really problem when men can not even encourage women.

If compare a woman in ministry to abomination to God, (comparing them to gays), then you must also be calling me and other an offense to God, because I believe women can be called. If that is the statements being made then my friend there is two groups of us. One who are children of God, and One who are children of satan. God's children do not hate each other or call them offense to The Father. To make such a claim shows hate, and God said who ever says they love God but hate their christian brother or sister is a liar.

I am not calling anyone a child of satan, but I am saying those who make such claims against children of God are as God said lairs.

if you can not love your brother a sister you better respect them, because you will answer to God for every charge you make against them. At least have fear of God. DO you think you will not be made to account for your words? God says you will be made to account. You better fear that and keep that in mind. Its not even my warning but God's. Read your Bible.

Again not pointing any one out i making a statement before things get out of hand. We are either the of the same family or enemies, but we are commanded to love either way. love each other, for the Love of God, love each other.

Are these words intended to encourage women—or are they intended to challenge people with whom you disagree?

 

[OzSpen]

PrincetonGuy,

Defying God by doing that which we have been expressly forbidden to do is a sin, whether we are Baptists, women, or famous people in Baptist history.

That's your opinion.

Let both of us get back to the topic of the OP by Bluelion:

Not a Debate I just wanted to say how thankful I am for women in ministry. I have had a number of women preach very wise words to me, and I know God was speaking through them. They are not even pastors I don't think. But it is such a joy when women support Christian men, and Christian men support Christian women. That is the way it suppose to be.
__________________

 

[Bluelion]

PrincetonGuy,


That's your opinion.

Let both of us get back to the topic of the OP by Bluelion:

Like I said Oz it is a joy when Christian women support Christian men, and When Christian Men support Christian women.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Like I said Oz it is a joy when Christian women support Christian men, and When Christian Men support Christian women.

Should Christian men support Christian women who chose to defy God and “serve” Him in the pastoral ministry? No, they should not!

 

[Dkh587]

Okay I have a question:

When is the spiritual authority line crossed, in terms of women preaching?

For example, at my church(southern baptist), there are women ministers in the clergy, but our pastor is a man

I do respect and recognize that YAHWEH does not want women to have authority over men in the church, but I am wondering does that mean we should never listen to a woman speak from the pulpit, or if they're able to testify etc..

Any help is appreciated. I hope I make sense

 

[OzSpen]

Okay I have a question:

When is the spiritual authority line crossed, in terms of women preaching?

For example, at my church(southern baptist), there are women ministers in the clergy, but our pastor is a man

I do respect and recognize that YAHWEH does not want women to have authority over men in the church, but I am wondering does that mean we should never listen to a woman speak from the pulpit, or if they're able to testify etc..

Any help is appreciated. I hope I make sense

That's not the topic of the OP. Why don't you start another thread to address that kind of topic?

Oz

 

[now faith]

Princeton Guy,and Blue Lion have made a point that may have been looked past.

A faithful wise woman,is a blessing to any ministry.

God's word tells us about 3 women in the old testament.

Ruth,Esther and Rahab.

A woman that is a peacemaker,not a gossip ;she puts others needs at the forefront.

Three special Women in the new Testament as well,Mary,Mary Magdalene,and Priscilla shared in ministering to the Lord.

It's not a debate to understand the importance of Women and the fact that Paul taught they are equal to Men in Marriage.

For me I am changing or trying not to offend the beliefs of a congressional body such as this one.

God has called us to peace.

The Word is sharper than a two edged sword [paraphrase] we must be careful how this subject is taught.

We would not want to portray women as subservient to Men and cover their bodies from head to toe.

Today there are so many extremes in society,void of common sense,God did create Men and Women for different tasks.
The modern American family has both spouses working,I believe this has indeed caused a breakdown of the Family.

The other side of the Sword for Men is that if you do not want a Woman in authority then do not send your wife to work.

If a woman works in administration of a Church office then she must at sometime have Authority over a Man.

In other words the grounds keeper that is a Man will mow as the Woman Administrator beckons.

 

[now faith]

In looking at this topic a bit more,does anyone here realize that the passage in Timothy says nothing about Church?

The context is a generalisation :
1 Timothy: 2. 1. I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2. For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. 3. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4. Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6. Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. 7. Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity. 8. I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. 9. In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; 10. But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. 11. Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Where does this state the role of a woman not to teach is proprietary to the Church?

If this is the case then Men who allow wives to work in jobs such as school teachers or any place that men of lower stature work,then they are in violation of this principle.