Not a Debate

[Bluelion]

I just wanted to say how thankful I am for women in ministry. I have had a number of women preach very wise words to me, and I know God was speaking through them. They are not even pastors I don't think. But it is such a joy when women support Christian men, and Christian men support Christian women. That is the way it suppose to be.

 

[mikedsjr]

Please refrain from deciding what is debatable. I'm already being prodded by your topic title.

Yes, I'm grateful for women like Kay Arthur. I don't go out of my way to hunt down women teachers. I look for Scripturally sound teachers, and I honestly find a smaller % of sound doctrinal women teachers on radio, youtube and podcasts than men, which I find sound doctrinal men teachers to be extremely sparse anyway. Quite honestly LCMS Lutherans seem to be the best choice for sound doctrine that looks even like what I know as Baptist thoeology. And I'm certainly staying away from charismatics

 

[98cwitr]

If a woman is Called to spread the Word, then who are we to stand in the way!

 

[Bluelion]

Please refrain from deciding what is debatable. I'm already being prodded by your topic title.

Yes, I'm grateful for women like Kay Arthur. I don't go out of my way to hunt down women teachers. I look for Scripturally sound teachers, and I honestly find a smaller % of sound doctrinal women teachers on radio, youtube and podcasts than men, which I find sound doctrinal men teachers to be extremely sparse anyway. Quite honestly LCMS Lutherans seem to be the best choice for sound doctrine that looks even like what I know as Baptist thoeology. And I'm certainly staying away from charismatics

Look pal. I speak for my self and when I say I will not debate something it is what I means in this thread.

 

[Bluelion]

If a woman is Called to spread the Word, then who are we to stand in the way!

ANd what a great offense any one who would stand in the way of a woman called by God, because they would be rebelling against God Himself.

 

[OzSpen]

If a woman is Called to spread the Word, then who are we to stand in the way!

What would be the criteria you would use to know that she is 'called to spread the Word'?

 

[Bluelion]

What would be the criteria you would use to know that she is 'called to spread the Word'?

What would it be for a man?

 

[mikedsjr]

If a woman is Called to spread the Word, then who are we to stand in the way!

I'm not sure there is going to be agreement on the term calling. How can anyone be recognized as called to ministry unless they are consistently exegeting Scripture and proclaiming the law and gospel.

Maybe some example women leaders should be discussed, in light of my statement and see where they match up.

 

[OzSpen]

What would it be for a man?

Demonstration that she has the gift of teaching/preaching in a local church. However, most women won't even get an opportunity to determine this in many conservative local churches outside of certain denominations.

The Church of the Nazarene, the Salvation Army, the Quakers, Pentecostal and Charismatic groups, and some Baptist denominations in my country of Australia, encourage and support women in ministry. In most other denominations they won't be able to demonstrate the gift in a mixed audience.

 

[Bluelion]

Demonstration that she has the gift of teaching/preaching in a local church. However, most women won't even get an opportunity to determine this in many conservative local churches outside of certain denominations.

The Church of the Nazarene, the Salvation Army, the Quakers, Pentecostal and Charismatic groups, and some Baptist denominations in my country of Australia, encourage and support women in ministry. In most other denominations they won't be able to demonstrate the gift in a mixed audience.

I think any body who God speaks through is qualified for ministry. That does not mean they don't need training. We all have different gifts, God uses us all even the lost.

 

[98cwitr]

What would be the criteria you would use to know that she is 'called to spread the Word'?

Other people's testimony regarding her Call. I know a female pastor, and talking with her mom about it, her mom had a dream/premonition that her daughter would become a pastor, and the very next day her daughter came in to tell her mom that she was changing her major in college to Divinity. The mom, being Southern Baptist herself, was very concerned and worried about how the church would accept her, or that they probably wouldn't. Years later the daughter was ordained. Totally beyond any coincidence imo.

 

[98cwitr]

I'm not sure there is going to be agreement on the term calling. How can anyone be recognized as called to ministry unless they are consistently exegeting Scripture and proclaiming the law and gospel.

Maybe some example women leaders should be discussed, in light of my statement and see where they match up.

Your thoughts on Martha Stearns Marshall and her role in proclaiming the Gospel?

 

[OzSpen]

I think any body who God speaks through is qualified for ministry. That does not mean they don't need training. We all have different gifts, God uses us all even the lost.

How do you determine that God is speaking through a preacher/teacher? I've heard some lousy male preachers in evangelical and Pentecostal churches down through the years. Was God speaking through them?

 

[OzSpen]

Other people's testimony regarding her Call. I know a female pastor, and talking with her mom about it, her mom had a dream/premonition that her daughter would become a pastor, and the very next day her daughter came in to tell her mom that she was changing her major in college to Divinity. The mom, being Southern Baptist herself, was very concerned and worried about how the church would accept her, or that they probably wouldn't. Years later the daughter was ordained. Totally beyond any coincidence imo.

That's really a very subjective criterion. It could be right or wrong. What about the impact of her preaching/teaching on others - male and female? The difficulty with conservative churches that don't allow for women to have an overt public preaching/teaching ministry is that they won't be given this opportunity to practise this gift in a congregation.

 

[Bluelion]

How do you determine that God is speaking through a preacher/teacher? I've heard some lousy male preachers in evangelical and Pentecostal churches down through the years. Was God speaking through them?

My sheep know my voice and obey, Jesus said, not word for word but. We should be able to hear Jesus in a person, but if not Their words should be dead on with God's Word, if your not sure question them. This is why it is so important for us to Know God's word.

evil will never speak truth, because there is no truth in evil. Now i ask you is that with The Word of God? do you know? what passage makes it so? that will tell you need to study more or not.

The answer is Jesus said satan is the father of lies and there is no truth in him. Now satan was the first to sin and started evil, for sin is evil, so evil comes from satan, i guess you could debate that, but evil follows satan and satan lies, evil will never speak the truth because it will not go against satan. Does that make sense?

 

[PrincetonGuy]

I just wanted to say how thankful I am for women in ministry. I have had a number of women preach very wise words to me, and I know God was speaking through them. They are not even pastors I don't think. But it is such a joy when women support Christian men, and Christian men support Christian women. That is the way it suppose to be.

There are several issues here which need to be separated from each other for these statements to make sense. I believe that we are all thankful for women in the ministry—provided that they were called to the ministry that they are performing.

If a woman is Called to spread the Word, then who are we to stand in the way!

Women may be called to “spread the word,” but when we see women defying God and doing that which they are expressly forbidden to do, they might as well be worshipping a golden calf in front of the congregation.

What would be the criteria you would use to know that she is 'called to spread the Word'?

When God calls a woman into a Christian ministry, that ministry will not place the woman in a role that she is forbidden by God from being in. Moreover, the call of God is NOT just a desire in the heart or a rationalization, but a message from God telling the woman that He wants her to serve Him in a specific kind of ministry.

Demonstration that she has the gift of teaching/preaching in a local church. However, most women won't even get an opportunity to determine this in many conservative local churches outside of certain denominations.

The Church of the Nazarene, the Salvation Army, the Quakers, Pentecostal and Charismatic groups, and some Baptist denominations in my country of Australia, encourage and support women in ministry. In most other denominations they won't be able to demonstrate the gift in a mixed audience.

No woman has been called by God to defy Him by usurping authority over men and presumptuously pastoring a church regardless of the gifts and talents that she may be endowed with.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Other people's testimony regarding her Call. I know a female pastor, and talking with her mom about it, her mom had a dream/premonition that her daughter would become a pastor, and the very next day her daughter came in to tell her mom that she was changing her major in college to Divinity. The mom, being Southern Baptist herself, was very concerned and worried about how the church would accept her, or that they probably wouldn't. Years later the daughter was ordained. Totally beyond any coincidence imo.

A woman having a nightmare in which her daughter defied God and became a pastor is not evidence that the daughter who subsequently sinned against God was called by God to commit that sin.

 

[mikedsjr]

Your thoughts on Martha Stearns Marshall and her role in proclaiming the Gospel?

You got me there. I've no clue who she is, and therefore what she taught.

 

[OzSpen]

PrincetonGuy,

You wrote:

When God calls a woman into a Christian ministry, that ministry will not place the woman in a role that she is forbidden by God from being in. Moreover, the call of God is NOT just a desire in the heart or a rationalization, but a message from God telling the woman that He wants her to serve Him in a specific kind of ministry.

Is that according to your interpretation or mine regarding women in ministry (1 Cor 14; 1 Tim 2)?

You wrote:

No woman has been called by God to defy Him by usurping authority over men and presumptuously pastoring a church regardless of the gifts and talents that she may be endowed with.

According to your interpretation or mine?

It gets down to hermeneutics. In your response to me, you presented your anti-women in ministry hermeneutics. We've debated this in another thread. I disagree with your interpretations that close down God's gifted women in ministry to men and women.

Oz

 

[Bluelion]

A woman having a nightmare in which her daughter defied God and became a pastor is not evidence that the daughter who subsequently sinned against God was called by God to commit that sin.

You need to watch what you say about God's children.