NIV is not the best translation. The ASB is the most literal and the KJV.
The sin is speaking against The Holy Spirit. like the Pharisees did calling Good evil
Had you read my initial description of this issue? It is in post #6 of this thread.You make a valid point. devil worshipers might read it and do it out of anger and rebellion but later on wish to be saved but it would be to late. Also it could be used as acceptance in such circles. There is a reason it is not plainly written.
Had you read my initial description of this issue? It is in post #6 of this thread.
One passage you quoted for that point is, if possible, more explicit in describing this sin.No I am not Those are the words of Christ not mine.
Not excepting Christ is not an unforgivable sin because at any time a person can repent and be saved. However if The Holy Spirit is speaking through a person and you say it is satan as the Pharisees did, you are damn to hell from that point on whether you repent or not, in fact you can not repent at that point it is impossible you become a son of perdition.
It sounds like that is what is really meant, and we can see the utter hopelessness of the people who would do this. However, unless you could show me this mark, and show how it is to be taken, I would venture that it is not even available or accessible to us. If ever it did become available, acceptance of it would be an irreconcilable error to take it to oneself.One more point there is another unforgivable sin we have not addressed, that being the mark of the beast.
One passage you quoted for that point is, if possible, more explicit in describing this sin.Mark 3We can do no better than take the LORD at His word, and believe him. As we do, we draw closer continually to the Strait Gate. The Narrow way, described by our LORD, is not a way for the timid, nor for those who would pay lip service to the religion of the world.
28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.
It sounds like that is what is really meant, and we can see the utter hopelessness of the people who would do this. However, unless you could show me this mark, and show how it is to be taken, I would venture that it is not even available or accessible to us. If ever it did become available, acceptance of it would be an irreconcilable error to take it to oneself.
The subject here, though, is something that is possible in the most general terms, as it is a sinful act produced by the mouth, and "out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh." Here is the danger. The heart is destitute, and the mouth proclaims it so. The heart despises the LORDSHIP of Christ, has so stated, but will not be pleased till all the Godhead is demeaned and maligned. What experience anyone might have with devils, it is THAT horrendous image that is projected on the very best that this world has ever seen or known.
The truth is that God the Father has been maligned for millennia by people of the world. As our LORD was prophesied, and as He was brought into this world, to save us, all the forces of darkness were assembled against Him. All forms of hatred have been directed at the Son of God, and He endured all of it for the eternal good of His creation.
There is no cause whatsoever for anyone to direct this vitriol toward the Holy Spirit of God. The Holy Ghost never seeks that praise or credit be offered anywhere, but to the LORD Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ always gave the Glory of his victory over Death, Hell and the grave to His Father in Heaven. Thus, there is no excuse for anyone to so mistreat the precious Holy Spirit of God. There is no area where He should be slighted or demeaned. There is nothing of Himself to which attention should be drawn. Thus, it is inexcusable and unforgivable to malign God's Holy Spirit in any manner the human tongue could manage.
As you state here, it is what the scriptures say it is, but none of us can go to it, and show it for being what it is, nor could we take it till it is there and offered.I agree. I am not sure if we will be taken out of the world be fore the mark gets here or not. It is his name or the number of his name which is a great offense to God. The Greek word which describes it literally means mark. God also Seals His people.
As you state here, it is what the scriptures say it is, but none of us can go to it, and show it for being what it is, nor could we take it till it is there and offered.
There are a number of things people have shown that are or could be a precursor. There are a number of aspects of this that have shown up in things we might see or some people have seen. However, since you would not be able to give me a location of it, and instruct me in the mechanism for acquiring it, we must say that it is something to seen in the future.
The point still remains, that from the description in scripture, we have the mechanism for generating this particular act. We know it is committed using the person's own voice, mouth and tongue. In the first instance that was described in the scriptures wqe have quoted, it had been done purposely and more than once before sentence was passed upon it.
You may misunderstand. Look at your hand, or go to a mirror, and look at your forehead. It is not there! It has not come on the scene as yet. You cannot receive it, as it is not yet offered to you.well i can give you a location God said it would be the right hand or forehead.
You may misunderstand. Look at your hand, or go to a mirror, and look at your forehead. It is not there! It has not come on the scene as yet. You cannot receive it, as it is not yet offered to you.
I mean where is the place we could now go to receive this thing. What does it look like? What is its material construction? We know there is a spiritual aspect. The best info I have seen indicates there is a genetic alteration that would be associated with that. (Let me know if you are interested in studying that.)
The conclusion is that it is a thing that is not yet available, and it has not been available for any of these last 1900 years since we had the prophesy that described it. However, the sin described by Jesus is something we know, we know the mechanism for doing that, and it has been reported over the years to have been committed knowingly by people here on Earth, who walk and breathe in this life.
One more point there is another unforgivable sin we have not addressed, that being the mark of the beast.
That's about as literal as when Jesus said to pluck out an eye or cut off a hand. It simply means those who have given themselves to Satan.
We see otherwise in the Gospels. The LORD Jesus Christ had the Holy Spirit of God from the time John had Baptized Him.When Jesus was on earth in the flesh, and in His Glorified Body, He didn't have the Holy Spirit with Him, nor was He advised, or aided by the Holy Spirit.
The is a verse or two where Jesus told His disciples that the comforter would not come until He ascended to the Father, and then the Father would sent Him to them.
The statement is clear as to what our Lord was telling his accusers.
But.. this is one sin that shall not be forgiven,are there any more?
Romans: 1. 20. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23. And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27. And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29. Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30. Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31. Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32. Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
In this passage it is not one particular sin that causes God to walk away.
It is the knowing full well God is,and acting in defiance with purpose.
Satan has a reprobate mind and he will be cast into a lake of fire, and so does those who seek to corrupt Christ and deny his divinity.
John: 8. 34. Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. 37. I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. 38. I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. 39. They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 40. But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. 41. Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. 46. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? 47. He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God. 48. Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil? 49. Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me. 50. And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth. 51. Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
There seems to be a mixing of terms. Also, there may be some minor confusion about something in particular. The LORD Jesus Christ made it plain that there are all manner of sins and blasphemies that can be forgiven. It does not say these can ALWAYS be for given, nor that they necessarily will be forgiven, nor that forgiveness would be given absent repentance.The statement is clear as to what our Lord was telling his accusers.
But.. this is one sin that shall not be forgiven,are there any more?
Romans: 1. 20-32...
--- etc.---
In this passage it is not one particular sin that causes God to walk away.
It is the knowing full well God is,and acting in defiance with purpose.
Satan has a reprobate mind and he will be cast into a lake of fire, and so does those who seek to corrupt Christ and deny his divinity...
John: 8. 34-51...
We see otherwise in the Gospels. The LORD Jesus Christ had the Holy Spirit of God from the time John had Baptized Him.
Matthew 3May God bless the truth of His word to our humble hearts.
13 ¶ Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Matthew 4
1 ¶ Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
Mark 1
9 ¶ And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.
10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
12 And immediately the Spirit driveth him into the wilderness.
Luke 3
21 ¶ Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,
22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
Luke 4
1 ¶ And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,