Moving Forward with Catholic/Orthodox Relationship

[LectioDivina]

Hello. I am hoping to get some perspectives on a mixed relationship. I am a devout Roman Catholic and I have been dating a Russian Orthodox man for about 7 months now. We have a lot of fun together and he is very smart, handsome and funny.

We've started talking about marriage, but neither one of us is willing to convert. He talks about how he wouldn't pressure me to convert, but that would be ideal, and I quickly responded that it would be ideal for me if he were to convert, as well.

I took a comparative religion class in college and I have been very fortunate to be very well-versed in my Catholic faith. I know the differences between the two faiths and remain steadfast in my devotion to the Catholicism. He is not as educated in Orthodoxy as I am in Catholicism, and he doesn't know as much about Catholicism as I do about Orthodoxy, as just a shred of background information.

I'm primarily concerned about what happens when you bring kids into the picture (although knowing that we would have to get married in an Orthodox Church and forgo a Catholic Mass is already enough to break my heart). We would both take a vow to raise children as our respected religions. Not "I vow to raise children kind of ____." And that's the issue I have.

We both practice what we believe to be the truth. The thing about the truth is that it's uncompromising. That's what makes it truth. But it seems that no matter what, there is compromise to be made...

He says we wouldn't be the first to do this and promises that we will make it work. But I don't want my marriage and children's faith lives to be "something that works" I want these things to flourish and be sources of joy. I want to stay home and raise my kids and take them to daily Mass with me and celebrate Easter and teach them about saints that have influenced my life. How could I not?

He said that we could both find good people of our own religions to be with, but he would like us to be together. But I don't see how. He has talked about going to each other's services on Sunday, but I don't see the use. Neither of us has expressed any interest or openness to conversion. And I can't imagine how hard it would be on kids to watch their parents practice separate religions. That seems like it adds a ton of difficulty on the faith formation process.

I am planning on taking your insights seriously and passing them along to him, too. I don't have a strict request for your responses. Just anything that you would like to share or weigh in on with either/both of us would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

You're in a tough spot, LD. I would point out that just because you are more knowledgeable about your faith than he is regarding his doesn't really mean you have the Truth. There are some very uneducated Catholics dating VERY educated Mormons out there who know their religion/cult inside and out, but obviously the Catholic is closer to the Truth than the Mormon in that nutty spirituality!

If you are not willing to budge and neither is he, this marriage just might not happen. At this point in my life, my wife and I are 100% dedicated to being Orthodox. We are former Catholics. I can't imagine marrying a Catholic now if I were single, knowing what I know about the ancient faith.

I really don't know what to tell you. This relationship just might not work out.

Hello. I am hoping to get some perspectives on a mixed relationship. I am a devout Roman Catholic and I have been dating a Russian Orthodox man for about 7 months now. We have a lot of fun together and he is very smart, handsome and funny.

We've started talking about marriage, but neither one of us is willing to convert. He talks about how he wouldn't pressure me to convert, but that would be ideal, and I quickly responded that it would be ideal for me if he were to convert, as well.

I took a comparative religion class in college and I have been very fortunate to be very well-versed in my Catholic faith. I know the differences between the two faiths and remain steadfast in my devotion to the Catholicism. He is not as educated in Orthodoxy as I am in Catholicism, and he doesn't know as much about Catholicism as I do about Orthodoxy, as just a shred of background information.

I'm primarily concerned about what happens when you bring kids into the picture (although knowing that we would have to get married in an Orthodox Church and forgo a Catholic Mass is already enough to break my heart). We would both take a vow to raise children as our respected religions. Not "I vow to raise children kind of ____." And that's the issue I have.

We both practice what we believe to be the truth. The thing about the truth is that it's uncompromising. That's what makes it truth. But it seems that no matter what, there is compromise to be made...

He says we wouldn't be the first to do this and promises that we will make it work. But I don't want my marriage and children's faith lives to be "something that works" I want these things to flourish and be sources of joy. I want to stay home and raise my kids and take them to daily Mass with me and celebrate Easter and teach them about saints that have influenced my life. How could I not?

He said that we could both find good people of our own religions to be with, but he would like us to be together. But I don't see how. He has talked about going to each other's services on Sunday, but I don't see the use. Neither of us has expressed any interest or openness to conversion. And I can't imagine how hard it would be on kids to watch their parents practice separate religions. That seems like it adds a ton of difficulty on the faith formation process.

I am planning on taking your insights seriously and passing them along to him, too. I don't have a strict request for your responses. Just anything that you would like to share or weigh in on with either/both of us would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[LectioDivina]

I'm not saying that knowledge of your religion makes it the Truth, but he has argued that the father should be the spiritual leader. Which I don't disagree with, but that makes things even more difficult. Not only would by my family be led away from my faith, but by a leader who isn't fully knowledgeable. He's been a proponent of us living together, and I won't go there. I know that isn't an action supported by either faith...

I recognize that marriage might not be possible, and I appreciate your honest insight.

 

[InnerPhyre]

None of us can tell you what to do, but I will offer prayers for the both of you. I can't imagine being married to someone who is not Orthodox and the idea of having a religiously divided family is definitely less than ideal. Some people make it work. Some don't.

 

[Shane R]

Perhaps you both could study Eastern Catholicism. It might bridge the divide in your faiths and possibly even lead you to a consensus one way or another. I suspect this whole issue may be more serious for you than for him.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

That IS a problem! You're both right that a dad/father should be the spiritual leader of the family. You're also dead-on right that he should know his faith (at least the nuts and bolts bare minimum!) do properly lead, and you're also quite correct that cohabitation is NOT an option for either faith! Right on all counts. You're in quite a pickle.....

Maybe this marriage talk needs to be off the table for a while and some serious prayer and religious counseling is needed. Tough situation, LD. I'm sorry!

I'm not saying that knowledge of your religion makes it the Truth, but he has argued that the father should be the spiritual leader. Which I don't disagree with, but that makes things even more difficult. Not only would by my family be led away from my faith, but by a leader who isn't fully knowledgeable. He's been a proponent of us living together, and I won't go there. I know that isn't an action supported by either faith...

I recognize that marriage might not be possible, and I appreciate your honest insight.

 

[WisdomTree]

Correct me if I am wrong, but in a marriage between a Catholic and an Orthodox, I believe it is the faith of the father of the children which takes perogative when it comes to raising them in faith (at least under Catholic Canon Law)?

 

[ArmyMatt]

well, for one, Lord have mercy!

as far as being Orthodox goes, usually when an Orthodox Christian marries someone who is not Orthodox, the wedding is Orthodox and the kids are to be raised Orthodox (and I am pretty sure that RC says the same thing). the best think I think, would be to talk to his local Orthodox priest.

 

[WisdomTree]

well, for one, Lord have mercy!

as far as being Orthodox goes, usually when an Orthodox Christian marries someone who is not Orthodox, the wedding is Orthodox and the kids are to be raised Orthodox (and I am pretty sure that RC says the same thing). the best think I think, would be to talk to his local Orthodox priest.

Yes, that is correct from a Catholic point of view also unless the father is of a faith recognised by the See of Rome as having valid Apostolic faith (Orthodox, Miaphysite, Nestorian, et cetera) in which case they take precedence. I think, I'm not a hundred percent sure on this.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Yes, that is correct from a Catholic point of view also unless the father is of a faith recognised by the See of Rome as having valid Apostolic faith (Orthodox, Miaphysite, Nestorian, et cetera) in which case they take precedence. I think, I'm not a hundred percent sure on this.

thanks for that. it does present an issue though with the kids not being able to commune with a parent.

 

[WisdomTree]

thanks for that. it does present an issue though with the kids not being able to commune with a parent.

Hence why there is always a reservation and hesitancy on part of a priest to allow such a union to happen in the first place.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Hence why there is always a reservation and hesitancy on part of a priest to allow such a union to happen in the first place.

indeed, we should not be unevenly yoked. but then I do know of many where one parent is Orthodox, the other is not, and sometimes slowly but surely the other parent joins the Faith.

 

[WisdomTree]

indeed, we should not be unevenly yoked. but then I do know of many where one parent is Orthodox, the other is not, and sometimes slowly but surely the other parent joins the Faith.

I think it really does depend on the seriousness one takes the faith as well as whether one was of that faith before or after marriage. There is nothing in Scripture nor Tradition which actively forbids entering such union, but it does say for good reasons why it may not be very wise.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I think it really does depend on the seriousness one takes the faith as well as whether one was of that faith before or after marriage. There is nothing in Scripture nor Tradition which actively forbids entering such union, but it does say for good reasons why it may not be very wise.

yeah, my first girlfriend after I became Orthodox was Catholic, and we had to end it because neither of us wanted to convert.

 

[InnerPhyre]

well, for one, Lord have mercy!

as far as being Orthodox goes, usually when an Orthodox Christian marries someone who is not Orthodox, the wedding is Orthodox and the kids are to be raised Orthodox (and I am pretty sure that RC says the same thing). the best think I think, would be to talk to his local Orthodox priest.

This is correct. We cannot be married in other churches because Matrimony is a sacrament and we cannot receive sacraments from churches that we are not in communion with. I believe the OP mentioned that they wouldn't be able to be married in a Catholic church.

 

[Dorothea]

Hi, LD. I would echo what others have said here. Personally, I don't see how the relationship can flourish and go further via marriage and children when both of you are dedicated to your respective faiths/churches. I admire your loyalty to your church, as I admire your boyfriend's. I don't think it would be fair for either one of you to try to compromise on your faiths because it's who you two are. I will pray for you and your boyfriend.

 

[seekingfreedom]

I mentioned this a while ago. My mother was Orthodox and my father, God rest his soul, was Catholic. I was raised Catholic, but would visit my Orthodox grandmother's church. My father was fine with it. My mother had to convert to Catholicism if she wanted to marry my father. It was an ethnic catholic parish and they wouldn't allow my mother's parents to enter the church for their wedding. It was a long time ago. She is now in her upper eighties. She never really took up the Catholic faith. She would make me go to church, but she didn't go most times. My father was very religious. It wasn't until my father died that she started speaking about this.

I still enjoy the Orthodox Liturgy and I have been studying the theology and am drawn to it. I can't make the plunge. Maybe I am just lazy. It is so much easier for me to go around the corner and have my pick of various Catholic churches and lots of masses at different times. I was a faithful catholic for over 40 years of my life. And I don't mean just the externals. It was real…then. It just isn't there anymore. I've lived through too many changes and too many things I was taught are no longer teachings. It's just that it is embedded in me. I don't know how to let go. That's my personality. I hang on even when (maybe) I shouldn't?

I guess today is my day for rants. That's what happens when I have vacation day.

Anyway, back to the OP. Just a story...maybe it says something, maybe it doesn't.

But I do know if you are going to make a go of it, you are both going to have to make a decision on how you are going to raise your kids…before you marry. Whoever gives up and gives in, is going to have to let it go and not hold a grudge.

 

[katherine2001]

Perhaps you both could study Eastern Catholicism. It might bridge the divide in your faiths and possibly even lead you to a consensus one way or another. I suspect this whole issue may be more serious for you than for him.

That is not acceptable for an Orthodox Christian. If he becomes Eastern Catholic, then he has apostacized from the Church, and that is an extremely dangerous thing to do.

 

[WisdomTree]

That is not acceptable for an Orthodox Christian. If he becomes Eastern Catholic, then he has apostacized from the Church, and that is an extremely dangerous thing to do.

I don't think that is what he meant, but rather that she study it herself so that they can have some kind of common grounds. It would be silly to say that becoming Eastern Catholic warrants one to partake in both Catholic and Orthodox communion. Catholic is Catholic, end of story.

 

[Knee V]

I have some blanket advice for this type of issue. Of course, I'm just a dude on the interwebs who really doesn't know you or your fella. That said, my advice is this: don't.

Just the fact that marriage is two separate wills trying to live together makes marriage difficult enough. Adding more things into that mix that you know ahead of time will cause more conflict is more trouble than it's worth. Additionally, you want to raise your kids Catholic, and he wants to raise his kids Orthodox. That right there, imho, is an irreconcilable difference. That will cause more conflict than you can begin to imagine.

Once the smell of the roses fades away, marriage smells a lot like real life, which doesn't always smell all that nice. When that happens, all the things that you were willing to overlook begin to creep onto the scene and rear their heads and demand attention from both of you. Deal with that now while you can and marry a good and pious Catholic man.

Or... you could always just become Orthodox.