[MOVED from Married Couples]I feel racist toward black men now after my husband

[RDKirk]

Forgiveness comes only with repentance.

Not "only." If the situation is a necessity of continued fellowship, yes. But forgiveness has a necessary reflexive benefit regardless of whether the other person repents.

 

[Avniel]

I think racism is more extreme racism is something like police profiling. My working definition of slavery has to involve some sort of power. Unless you are a state representative, a banker, judge or some sort of position of influence your views would definitely be considered racist.

Despite it being incredible ignorant and some what sophomoric to group a people together based on your limited contact with them(1) you label us while you take no personal responsibility. Even in the slum of all slums you can still find educated, well read and community oriented black men. You made the personal choice not to look for that and instead of looking inside yourself and fix what's wrong you type cast black men and 9 times out of 10 will enter into a relationship with a white man and feel the same type of thing. The reality is black, white, yellow, brown and green men are all different as individuals you made the choice not to be with those type of men.

My father is Jamaican my grandmother's family was into politics, my grandfather had a humble up coming he was an accountant for wray and nephews rum company. My mother's family was filled with black teachers and professors. My father has his doctorate my mother has a BA and before I was born worked on Wall Street. My wife's late father had a doctorate and her mother is a CPA. I have a BA double and a minor(law school), my brother has BA(in med school), my sister has a BA(in grad school specializing in special needs education). My wife has a masters in IO psychology, her brother has a masters in business(investment banker/professor working on doctorate, sister in law an attorney, aunts uncles and cousins all educated. So where do I fit in?

Also most of my wife and I's family and friends all went to HBCU's I have a ton of friends that you could never call ghetto. I know black men and women that unless your name has gravy or a degree behind it they will not look twice at you. My mother is an elitist she was upset that I bought myself some clothes from target. I have gone to nothing but the best privates schools my wife graduated from one of the top private schools in her area. Academy's that tuition costs equal if not more than many colleges.

Not to mention my Jamaican family stayed in England for years as far as etiquette most people in general do not know. Most people are uncultured, under-read, unrefined in my eyes.

Also what is being ghetto? A ghetto name is any name that doesn't have an origin or has been accepted by the founding majority populace. Any behavior not accepted by this group is labeled as ghetto or a lower level due to the person's ranking of the black culture. The term ghetto often times is a product of systematic racism. What is wrong with the name Shymeka if that's what the parents? We have been programmed to think less of trends that are not European in origin. There is no such thing as being ghetto it's a racist term when used to describe a race you associate with poverty. It's meant to be oppressive.

(1) The reality is when you speak of black men you speak of several 100 nationalities and ethnicities. You couldn't possibly think we all share the same cultural identity and community issues is absurd.


So no you are not racist because you don't have the power to effect the black community. However you are a bigot by working definition which just means you have racist views but it doesn't matter to the black community because you have noooo power so your opinion doesn't matter. The white women that are attracted to successful black men that are educated will still find them, the white women that want thugs will still be abused and mistreated. This is the same with black women that are attracted to black men.

 

[Avniel]

Forgiveness comes only with repentance.

So an entire people must apologize for the actions of another person that they have 0 benefit from.

 

[seeingeyes]

Not "only." If the situation is a necessity of continued fellowship, yes. But forgiveness has a necessary reflexive benefit regardless of whether the other person repents.

Correct. Forgiveness does not equal reconciliation.

 

[mkgal1]

So an entire people must apologize for the actions of another person that they have 0 benefit from.

Not very reasonable, is it?Also....how can people repent from something (change of mind is what repentance means) if they aren't participating?

 

[LinkH]

I think it all depends on the scope of what you're talking about.

For example - I was married to an Asian when I was younger. I know LinkH will disagree with me here (lol - we've discussed aspects of it before) - but after my divorce with her and the experience I had with her family - I swore never to date an Asian again. There simply are too many cultural differences that IMHO can become problematic in certain types of situations (mainly - I found the family to be far too intrusive in our business when I had made the decision to divorce - and it went BADLY.)

So - yeah - I said I would never date an Asian again. Is that racist? IMHO no - if I've only confined it to the dating context. Who really cares or is hurt by the fact I wouldn't ever look at an Asian as a suitable partner again? That doesn't mean I don't enjoy their company, enjoy friendships with them, etc. It just means that an Asian woman was no longer a viable marital partner in my eyes.

I remember your telling about the crazy stuff your ex was into. It's the kind of stuff that Asians typically would be less likely to be into than whites, IMO. You probably picked a statistical outlier.

But it doesn't bother me one bit if you didn't want to date an Asian after that. After the experience, Asians might have seemed less attractive to you, and may have reminded you of bad experiences. That may be the say with the OP and black men.

And like you say, if it's just in a dating context and you don't carry it into other social situations, I'd say that's fine. I know a Japanese American man who wants to marry a Japanese woman. Some of his friends think that's racist. I don't see a problem with it at all. What's the difference between wanting to date only redheads or women only wanting to date tall men? It's not racism. It's attraction. Some white men aren't attracted to black women. I don't see that as a problem of racism as long as they don't behave in a racist manner in other contexts. Attraction is a personal thing.

My wife's family is probably not as close knit as yours, probably because she lived with uncles and aunts in the big city when she was young and her folks lived far away from me. I just saw them during visits. If they'd have lived next door, that might have been stressful. I could see how an individualist going into a collectivist culture with the whole extended family set up could be very stressful.

But if any godly young men ask me about finding an Indonesian wife, I'm very positive about the idea. Your ex wasn't pribumi though. I don't know if that really makes a lot of difference culturally. I think marrying a rich girl might be harder, though.

 

[ananda]

I know many people feel that way. For me? I choose to forgive despite repentance. Lack of forgiveness is like a poison, and it only hurts me. It certain circumstances it does take a while to let go, and allow God to do what he must. Yet, at that point? I don't even need to know what he did. I've moved on, and found peace.

lol now if you want to say TRUST may return with contrite repentance? I would whole heartily agree with you.

I agree that one should "let go" of a matter in one's heart ... but "letting go" (affecting me) does not equal "forgiveness" (affecting the other party).

I can "let go" of a matter in my heart and no longer be attached to it, but the other party still has a debt which has yet to be satisfied. If the other party pays the debt, or repents and asks for my forgiveness of the debt, then I am able to forgive.

As a matter of fact, I would say that it is immoral and unethical to forgive someone of a debt without repentance. It harms the one who is owed the debt, it harms the debtor, and it perpetuates the cycle without resolving anything.

 

[Avniel]

Not very reasonable, is it?Also....how can people repent from something (change of mind is what repentance means) if they aren't participating?

You can not. We all do it to some extent an example is I don't give my seat to women unless they are black or hispanic. When I see a black or Hispanic woman pregnant or with small child I always get up and offer. I never get up for other women because it's my belief that they have prejudged me based on my skin color. In response I ignorantly automatically assume I know their position on race relations. It took a white woman to call me when I did it on the train. I don't do that anymore because bigotry is a sin of pride.

 

[ananda]

Not "only." If the situation is a necessity of continued fellowship, yes. But forgiveness has a necessary reflexive benefit regardless of whether the other person repents.

I stand by my statement ... forgiveness (of a debt) requires repentance.

As I pointed out to HannahT, I can let go of a situation until it no longer concerns me. But that is not the same as forgiveness.

IMO mainstream Christianity often throws around the word "forgiveness" without truly understanding what it really means ("release from a debt", not "detachment from a situation")

 

[ananda]

So an entire people must apologize for the actions of another person that they have 0 benefit from.

My statement was not a commentary on racism, but a reply to iLove's post ... my apologies for the confusion.

 

[DZoolander]

I remember your telling about the crazy stuff your ex was into. It's the kind of stuff that Asians typically would be less likely to be into than whites, IMO. You probably picked a statistical outlier.

But it doesn't bother me one bit if you didn't want to date an Asian after that. After the experience, Asians might have seemed less attractive to you, and may have reminded you of bad experiences. That may be the say with the OP and black men.

Sorry for the sidetrack - but I find this conversation interesting...lol

Actually, I totally agree that I picked a statistical anomaly. My decision not to ever date an Asian again really had nothing to do with my ex-wife (because she was an aberration like you said) - but rather because of her family and how her family handled the situation.

This is probably crudely put - and could use a bit of refinement - but it's late and I'm not going to try and perfect it (it'll be close enough... ). The thing that bothered me most about the FAMILY and what precipitated my decision not to ever date an Asian again had to do with the difference between respecting your elders, and the expectation to almost have to obey your elders.

As an American - I'm accustomed to taking the stand that my parents/elders are people whose input I value and will listen to - but at the end of the day they back off and the decision is mine alone. When I divorced my ex-wife - her family REALLY didn't want it to happen. They were sweet as pie and conciliatory for quite some time while trying to reconcile us back together (without knowing what she was up to - because I didn't see it as my place to tell them something as bad as that being that my time with them was temporary).

Once they figured out that I was determined to stay the course of divorce - the picture changed completely. Suddenly, to anyone who would listen, I was a horrible person, I was disrespectful, I was rude, I was a thief (lonnnng story there...basically after I kicked out my ex wife they gave her money to clear up her credit cards - and when the divorce happened and they came to me for repayment - I told them I wasn't responsible for obligations made by their daughter after we were split/outside of my presence), etc etc etc.

I do believe that there's a fundamental difference between Western cultures and Eastern cultures when it comes to roles between Parent/Child, Elder/Younger Person, etc...and as I am not disposed to relinquishing my perceived right to self-determination - I saw that as a real potential conflict if I ever chose to date another Asian. If things were going swimmingly - they were exceedingly nice. But once I made it clear that I (as the younger person) intended to ignore their council - it became chaos.

That's what made me decide not to ever date another one. Not the bondage stuff. Those were just the actions of an individual kook. lol

 

[DZoolander]

My father is Jamaican my grandmother's family was into politics, my grandfather had a humble up coming he was an accountant for wray and nephews rum company. My mother's family was filled with black teachers and professors. My father has his doctorate my mother has a BA and before I was born worked on Wall Street. My wife's late father had a doctorate and her mother is a CPA. I have a BA double and a minor(law school), my brother has BA(in med school), my sister has a BA(in grad school specializing in special needs education). My wife has a masters in IO psychology, her brother has a masters in business(investment banker/professor working on doctorate, sister in law an attorney, aunts uncles and cousins all educated. So where do I fit in?

I'm curious about the last part of your question...about "Where do I fit in?"

Let's say you were of school age, with your background, and were suddenly transferred into a predominantly black urban school. How do you think you would fit in, speaking as you do, etc? Do you think you could continue to do so and be overwhelmingly accepted - or do you think you would have to make allowances to "fit in"?

When I was in HS back in the 1980's...they had a busing system going where they'd bring kids from "bad areas" (basically urban black kids from Compton/Watts out in Southern California) out to our school. My black friends that grew up near me were treated like lepers and pariahs by those kids - for "speaking the white man's English", "selling out" and "not being black enough"...etc.

Do you think that type of feeling is not part of American Black culture?

 

[RDKirk]

White people are trying to narrowly define racism as "believing your race is superior to others," thus excusing their own racism by saying "I don't believe white is better, I just like white more." Bah.

Black people are trying to narrowly define racism by saying, "It requires having social power," thus excusing their own racism by saying, "Black people don't have social power. Bah on that, too.

Racism is bigotry from a standpoint of race. If you prejudge another person's morality or character based on his race rather than what you know about the individual, that is racism, period. It's a form of bigotry, all of which involving making judgments of another person's character based on a group external characteristic rather than his actual individual character.

When Paul declared, "Neither Jew nor Gentile," he was declaring that there is to be no bigotry among Christians, regardless of the type, whether racial or ethnic or national.

To be a Christian is to be of a culture that eschews all the dividing lines of worldly cultures. If someone claims to be a Christian but still clings worldly divisions, he needs to get into prayer.

 

[Avniel]

I'm curious about the last part of your question...about "Where do I fit in?"

Let's say you were of school age, with your background, and were suddenly transferred into a predominantly black urban school. How do you think you would fit in, speaking as you do, etc? Do you think you could continue to do so and be overwhelmingly accepted - or do you think you would have to make allowances to "fit in"?

When I was in HS back in the 1980's...they had a busing system going where they'd bring kids from "bad areas" (basically urban black kids from Compton/Watts out in Southern California) out to our school. My black friends that grew up near me were treated like lepers and pariahs by those kids - for "speaking the white man's English", "selling out" and "not being black enough"...etc.

Do you think that type of feeling is not part of American Black culture?

No I have never not fit in with my people. The only time I honestly feel like I don't fit in has been in law school. Honestly when I was in High school all the girls I dated were from my neighborhood and didn't go to the best school and they are from a shady part of the Bronx. I found that speaking "well" and having goals and as well as being super cool laid back actually made a lot of the girls I knew peruse me. Guys typically didn't care as long as you were good at sports or just a cool person. So I can't say I have experienced that.


I think it is part of the black American experience. When black men incorporate to much eurocentricisms that black man is seen as an outsider. However at the same time that person will never assimilate into American culture. I never went through his because I have always promoted my people. I think I didn't go through that because I have a genuine love for black people and the black community.

Some people speak "well" and some do not however that has nothing to do with being accepted. There are other aspects that should be included. Was he cool?

 

[sdmsanjose]

By Sunnydaize

I feel racist toward black men now after my husband

I feel racist toward any black men now after years of being in an abusive, controlling, relationship with my black husband.

I am white and have always had a preference towards black men until now.

I feel resentful that whenever i was with a black male- he was often abusive or controlling or violent or a cheater.

am I wrong for now being racist toward black men?

I do not like black men at all now and feel disgusted when I hear and see the typical behaviors come out of most of the black men I have ever known.

am I considered a full blown racist now that I no longer am attracted to black men and now that I see most black males as "ghetto" and abusive?

Sunnydaize
You are very hurt and have adopted a conclusion that many others do also. Your experience with a black man was horrible so you have judged all black men. If you keep concluding that all black men are abusive, controlling, violent, and a cheater then you are a racist.

Instead of concluding that all black men are ghetto and abusive how about you consider this. Consider getting whatever help you can and start healing from your trauma. You have been deeply hurt and you need compassion and understanding. When you get better then consider evaluating all people with the standard that is described in the Bible.

Abraham was esteemed by God because he was faithful and would prove it with his attempted sacrifice of his son. Jacob was blessed by God and Jacob valued the right things, he valued God’s blessings over the temporary pleasure of soup. Job was an honorable man that God bragged on because Job would suffer and not turn against God. Joseph was a great man because he ran from sin and forgave because he had the spirit of God in him. In other words evaluate a man by HIS FRUITS. Make sure that you ask God for wisdom and then watch the man for YEARS!! Do not allow words and flattery to rule your emotions and override the wisdom in the Bible.


Weather you divorce your husband, reconcile, remarriage, or stay single you would be wise to drop the grouping of men based upon race and your very limited experience with a black man and to pay keen attention as to what God looks for in a man or a woman. His standards you can trust in so use His standards to evaluate people.

My rule is this. If a man or woman will not seek to conform himself/her self towards God then they will not conform themselves to a marriage to make for a long term successful marriage.

God has given one very good book that contains great wisdom so do not put your emotional experiences with one man as the standard to judge a whole race; instead use God’s words and His wisdom. It is interesting to note that neither God nor Jesus ever mentioned the black race or the white race as either all good or all bad. In fact If it was of great importance to mankind to judge one race He would have went into enough detail to instruct us.

There are two types of people, those that seek to please and follow God and conform to His ways and those that do not. For me that is the most important evaluation of people that I can utilize

Sunnydaize, it is horrible that you have been hurt so badly. You need compassion and healing then use God’s wisdom to do your evaluations.

 

[Blessedj01]

I'm a white British guy and I'm ghetto. I have a three page criminal record.

So it might be better to just take people as they come.

We're all sinners.

 

[Avniel]

I'm a white British guy and I'm ghetto. I have a three page criminal record.

So it might be better to just take people as they come.

We're all sinners.

That's why when I went to the UK I felt like they were more morally advanced. I would rather be judged based on the coin in pocket vs the color of my skin. I've got white cousins in England I think it's a total difference. I feel more accepted there than the US

 

[Avniel]

White people are trying to narrowly define racism as "believing your race is superior to others," thus excusing their own racism by saying "I don't believe white is better, I just like white more." Bah.

Black people are trying to narrowly define racism by saying, "It requires having social power," thus excusing their own racism by saying, "Black people don't have social power. Bah on that, too.

Racism is bigotry from a standpoint of race. If you prejudge another person's morality or character based on his race rather than what you know about the individual, that is racism, period. It's a form of bigotry, all of which involving making judgments of another person's character based on a group external characteristic rather than his actual individual character.

When Paul declared, "Neither Jew nor Gentile," he was declaring that there is to be no bigotry among Christians, regardless of the type, whether racial or ethnic or national.

To be a Christian is to be of a culture that eschews all the dividing lines of worldly cultures. If someone claims to be a Christian but still clings worldly divisions, he needs to get into prayer.

I don't think I or black people attempt to narrow down a term. The reality is I a person with a BA in political science define racism with my understanding of my field. My wife a masters holder in psychology will most likely define racism in a way that reflects her field.

The U.N. Defines racism as:


the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.[25]

There has to be an effect. People often times use the term racism incorrectly. The dictionary gives a sophomoric definition of racism. Most people define racism at a high school level however the term's definition has been argued and the definition typically differs based on an individual's studies and their professional field.

 

[RDKirk]

I don't think I or black people attempt to narrow down a term. The reality is I a person with a BA in political science define racism with my understanding of my field. My wife a masters holder in psychology will most likely define racism in a way that reflects her field.

Yeah, I have that poli sci degree, too. Minored in moral philosophy.

The U.N. Defines racism as:

Actually, that was the UN definition of "racial discrimination," not racism. There is a distinction-- "discrimination" is racism in action, and the UN is only concerned about the action impelled by racism.

But it goes deeper for Christians:

“You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment.

Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell. -- Matthew 5

 

[Inkachu]

Nevermind.