Mother's Regret Transitioning Children

[rjs330]

C. Dheine 2011 Long-term follow-up of transsexual persons undergoing sex reassignment surgery: cohort study in Sweden. This 11 year study found no statistical difference in the suicide rate between those who have transitioned and the general population.




Citations please

Citation?

No it doesn't. Here's the conclusion.

Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.

Long-term follow-up of transsexual persons undergoing sex reassignment surgery: cohort study in Sweden - PubMed

Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Ana the Ist]

If we are going to take this form of addressing each other, why are we obliged to hear every single individuals idea, no matter how outlandish it is?

What's this "we" stuff? I thought victimhood is how you ranked importance of opinions.

Why is everyone obliged to learn about flat earth be taught in schools? or phlogiston? or phrenology?

I don't know....

Why are you insisting upon the "flat earth" version of gender be taught to little children?

I'm not. I'm saying give it the attention the evidence purports it is due.

If thousands are going to find themselves in this situation, surely an hour can be spared to talk about how horrific it is?

 

[Ana the Ist]

and still no evidence ...

You have yet to explain what it is you want evidence of.

I made claims. None of them were about a hospital.

Anytime you want to explain what exactly you want evidence of....you go ahead and spit it out.

 

[FaithT]

A lesbian couple raised two boys following the gender neutral ideology with letting the boys decide if they were boys or girls. As the boys grew older one of them started demanding to know what he was and he was told he could decide if he was a boy or a girl. The boy then decided he wanted to be a girl. His decision affected his younger brother who then decided he wanted to be a girl. They then transitioned the boys including changing their names.

Eventually the mother's realized that what they did was harming the children and they informed the boys they were boys, not girls and de-transitioned them. The de-transition was a bit challenging, but the boys are now thriving and doing very well being the sex they were born as. This is part of what she said.
The boys, now eight and nine, are now "happy and thriving," she said. But Rose said she still lives with regrets about the harm she inflicted on them and may have continued to inflict, if she and her "partner" had not radically changed their approach to parenting.

"When I look back at this, it is almost too much to write about," she stated. "The grief and the shock of what we did is so deep, so wide, so sharp and penetrating. How could a mother do this to her child? To her children? I truly believed that what I was doing was pure, right and good, only to later realize with horror what it could have lead to for my child.

"This horror still shakes me to my core," she said.

Mother regrets socially transitioning 4-year-old son to a girl: 'Like leaving a cult' | Blaze Media

A self-described former "true believer" in gender ideology has publicly admitted that she regrets "leading" her son to transition into a girl when he was just four years old.A woman and mother, identified only as Rose, recently discussed her story on the podcast "TRIGGERnometry," hosted by...

www.theblaze.com

That’s crazy. I just read This Is How It Always Is, a book about a transgender boy who was raised as a girl. I think transgenderism is a mental illness.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Given that the suicide attempt rate is still pretty high (even after transitioning)

I think it's a stretch to say that 96% are perfectly fine and happy.

While the transition does reduce suicidal ideation by over 30% (which shouldn't be ignored), the baseline suicidal ideation rate is so high that I think it's unrealistic to say "everyone who doesn't detransition must be perfectly happy and content with their decision".


I also think some numbers get conflated here with regards to the conversations about children. With regards to children, the major concern isn't with detransition as much as it is with desistence rates.

While the desistence percentage is likely not as high as the earlier studies had it pegged at (90%) due to some methodology flaws. More current, refined studies (that corrected for many of those methodology flaws) still have that number being over 60%. Which is a high enough number to warrant some caution. Whereas, desistence rates for adults seems to be much much lower.

It would also seem that waiting may even be more prudent now given new surveys and research that's coming out.

UCSF gender clinician Erica Anderson, who is transgender herself, had some interesting findings as well. Of the 25,000 participants in a LGBT+ survey, one third of the participants who wanted to identify as the opposite sex/gender when younger, ended up landing on identifying as non-binary when they got a little older... which adds some considerations to the desistence conversation.

1) Non-binary identity isn't associated with the same usage of surgical and hormonal intervention. (and for the percentage of non-binary who do opt for it, they typically opt for "micro dosing" the hormones, and fewer than 1% of non-binary people seek any sort of surgery.

2) That means there's another desistence path apart from the one people tend to talk about and that maybe needs to be considered. If someone were to go "all in" on surgery and/or hormones at age 16-17 (when they're at a period of life where they're still "finding themselves"), and then realize 5 years later that maybe what they actually are is more in the non-binary realm, they're kind of "past the point of no return" as well if they've already had surgeries.

I'll be honest...the "non-binary" claim is just a fad imo. It doesn’t refer to an actual gender. In fact, I think it's nothing but a placeholder for people who fundamentally look inside and realize there is no "feels like a man/woman" feeling....because it either doesn't exist or isn't identifiable without feeling it's opposite.

Rather than upending the whole agenda...."non-binary" sidesteps the very inconvenient possibilities of transgenderism actually being nothing more than the desire to be the opposite sex....and gender being a false construct.

 

[FaithT]

I bet the kids are carrying baggage from the experience though. Also I'm not in favor of same sex couples raising kids. I think it's healthiest for kids to have a biological male father and a biological female mother. That's how God designed it to be.

Another bad family set up is the trans male who gives birth. So the kid ends up with this unnatural combination of having a masculine father, who's also his mother. And I suppose the female looking mother on the right is really a man. There's nothing natural or normal or healthy about this.

Remember the news about the “first pregnant man” who was actually a woman taking hormones?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Given that the suicide attempt rate is still pretty high (even after transitioning)

I think it's a stretch to say that 96% are perfectly fine and happy.

While the transition does reduce suicidal ideation by over 30% (which shouldn't be ignored), the baseline suicidal ideation rate is so high that I think it's unrealistic to say "everyone who doesn't detransition must be perfectly happy and content with their decision".


I also think some numbers get conflated here with regards to the conversations about children. With regards to children, the major concern isn't with detransition as much as it is with desistence rates.

While the desistence percentage is likely not as high as the earlier studies had it pegged at (90%) due to some methodology flaws. More current, refined studies (that corrected for many of those methodology flaws) still have that number being over 60%. Which is a high enough number to warrant some caution. Whereas, desistence rates for adults seems to be much much lower.

It would also seem that waiting may even be more prudent now given new surveys and research that's coming out.

UCSF gender clinician Erica Anderson, who is transgender herself, had some interesting findings as well. Of the 25,000 participants in a LGBT+ survey, one third of the participants who wanted to identify as the opposite sex/gender when younger, ended up landing on identifying as non-binary when they got a little older... which adds some considerations to the desistence conversation.

1) Non-binary identity isn't associated with the same usage of surgical and hormonal intervention. (and for the percentage of non-binary who do opt for it, they typically opt for "micro dosing" the hormones, and fewer than 1% of non-binary people seek any sort of surgery.

2) That means there's another desistence path apart from the one people tend to talk about and that maybe needs to be considered. If someone were to go "all in" on surgery and/or hormones at age 16-17 (when they're at a period of life where they're still "finding themselves"), and then realize 5 years later that maybe what they actually are is more in the non-binary realm, they're kind of "past the point of no return" as well if they've already had surgeries.

I'll be honest...the "non-binary" claim is just a fad imo. It doesn’t refer to an actual gender. In fact, I think it's nothing but a placeholder for people who fundamentally look inside and realize there is no "feels like a man/woman" feeling....because it either doesn't exist or isn't identifiable without feeling it's opposite.

Rather than unending the whole agenda...."non-binary" sidesteps the very inconvenient possibilities of transgenderism actually being nothing more than the desire to be the opposite sex....and gender being a false construct.

Can I have a citation from the APA?

The only things I can find from the APA concerning sterilization of transgender individuals are notes of concern about "irreversible forced surgery or sterilization of intersex and transgender individuals" in some countries and that "transgender individuals may be victims of forced sterilization or castration".

Since you asked so nicely @Gene2memE, I'll take a look. Unfortunately, I had read through so many guideline pdfs I'm not sure which one it is. Luckily, I did check the citation.

Fertility concerns of the transgender patient

Transgender individuals who undergo gender-affirming medical or surgical therapies are at risk for infertility. Suppression of puberty with gonadotropin-releasing hormone agonist analogs (GnRHa) in the pediatric transgender patient can pause the maturation ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I'll figure out if it was an APA guideline or something like wpath. I know that Republicans like to say "chemically castrated" but since that doesn't apply to women, I'll just say infertility/sterilization.

 

[SilverBear]

Yeah it is. That's what the drugs were for before we started giving the. To kids.

THE most common of the drugs used Goserelin was developed in the 1970's for the treatment of cancer.

 

[SilverBear]

No it doesn't. Here's the conclusion.

Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.

Long-term follow-up of transsexual persons undergoing sex reassignment surgery: cohort study in Sweden - PubMed

Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Let's take a look inside at the actual data. The total number of deaths by suicide among sex reassigned individuals from 1989 to 2003 was....wait for it...three. Yes 3. the number of deaths by suicide for the study's control group from 1989 to 2003 was...two. So we are talking about one suicide over the course of more than a decade.

 

[SilverBear]

You have yet to explain what it is you want evidence of.

I made claims. None of them were about a hospital.

Anytime you want to explain what exactly you want evidence of....you go ahead and spit it out.

Evidence to support the initial claim that this particular hospital is castrating and mutilating children. It really isn't a difficult concept to understand.

You made an unsupported claim about the APA concluding "What more evidence do you need?" Which isn't evidence that this hospital is doing anything.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Let's take a look inside at the actual data. The total number of deaths by suicide among sex reassigned individuals from 1989 to 2003 was....wait for it...three. Yes 3. the number of deaths by suicide for the study's control group from 1989 to 2003 was...two. So we are talking about one suicide over the course of more than a decade.

Wait wait wait....

3 suicides?


Isn't the whole reason why people claim this is necessary is because there's a virtual epidemic of suicides in the trans youth community?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Evidence to support the initial claim that this particular hospital is castrating and mutilating children. It really isn't a difficult concept to understand.

No....it's not difficult to understand.

I've got no idea what hospital you're talking about and I didn't make that claim.

You made an unsupported claim about the APA concluding "What more evidence do you need?" Which isn't evidence that this hospital is doing anything.

Right....honestly, I had no idea how many guidelines for this stuff they set out. As I had the study referenced, I can probably find the relevant apa guidelines by name searching it.

I'm just curious what you're trying to argue though....that the APA doesn't know these treatments they're handing out to children can lead to sterilization/infertility?

 

[SilverBear]

Wait wait wait....

3 suicides?


Isn't the whole reason why people claim this is necessary is because there's a virtual epidemic of suicides in the trans youth community?

and that is an epidemic brought on by hate and intolerance. Please not that the study involves adults who have fully transitioned.

 

[SilverBear]

No....it's not difficult to understand.

I've got no idea what hospital you're talking about and I didn't make that claim.

but you still managed to respond

I'm just curious what you're trying to argue though....that the APA doesn't know these treatments they're handing out to children can lead to sterilization/infertility?

Cite the APA

 

[rjs330]

Wait wait wait....

3 suicides?


Isn't the whole reason why people claim this is necessary is because there's a virtual epidemic of suicides in the trans youth community?

I think there is something wrong with your numbers. The conclusion was this.

Conclusion​

This study found substantially higher rates of overall mortality, death from cardiovascular disease and suicide, suicide attempts, and psychiatric hospitalisations in sex-reassigned transsexual individuals compared to a healthy control population. This highlights that post surgical transsexuals are a risk group that need long-term psychiatric and somatic follow-up. Even though surgery and hormonal therapy alleviates gender dysphoria, it is apparently not sufficient to remedy the high rates of morbidity and mortality found among transsexual persons. Improved care for the transsexual group after the sex reassignment should therefore be considered.


Are you saying the conclusions are wrong?

They had more to say and I can quote them if you wish. But if the authors of the study say 1 more is substantially higher then I have to really doubt this study. They are really off base with the study if you are correct. Much of what they had to say is completely wrong if you are right.

 

[Ana the Ist]

and that is an epidemic brought on by hate and intolerance.

Or a normal rate of suicide.

Please not that the study involves adults who have fully transitioned.

I saw that. The evidence that youths who haven't transitioned are in some danger of suicide is lacking.

 

[Ana the Ist]

but you still managed to respond

Yeah.

Cite the APA

And you want me to cite the APA because in your mind....they don't know these treatments sterilize children?

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

Wow a completely anonymous and unverifiable story presented on a podcat that has been censored many times by You tube for hate speech and inciting violence against minorities...well it MUST be 100% true.

Makes you wonder why a worldly platform has to censor it, because Youtube is known for censoring things it doesn't agree with, I mean "lies"

 

[rjs330]

No....it's not difficult to understand.

I've got no idea what hospital you're talking about and I didn't make that claim.





Right....honestly, I had no idea how many guidelines for this stuff they set out. As I had the study referenced, I can probably find the relevant apa guidelines by name searching it.

I'm just curious what you're trying to argue though....that the APA doesn't know these treatments they're handing out to children can lead to sterilization/infertility?

Everyone knows what those drugs do to kids. What I don't understand is why anyone would support it.

Fertility Considerations for Trans People​

And you add the hormones and testosterone treatments which can mak it is even worse. Why would you do this to children? Especially when 60-80% would desist?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Everyone knows what those drugs do to kids. What I don't understand is why anyone would support it.

Fertility Considerations for Trans People​

And you add the hormones and testosterone treatments which can mak it is even worse. Why would you do this to children? Especially when 60-80% would desist?

Some people lack any moral grounding and are easily swayed by activists promising them absolution from past bigotry.