Whatever. Let's move on from that.
I don't understand that.
You tell me, you can't read my mind, and I need to try to be more specific.
I express that I was being specific, and asked you to help me out, in showing me how to be more specific, and you say "Whatever. Let's move on from that."
Is that how Christians help others?
Okay, let's move on then, but just remember that I tried. You didn't help.
Not necessarily, but it's helpful. As of now I don't really know what you believe, overall. Why be so mysterious about it?
What do you mean by being "mysterious about it"?
Would you like me to write out a list of what I believe, for you?
I was not aware of that being the purpose and requirements of these forum.
Do you normally ask others to do this?
A label isn't going to kill you.
It just might.
Jesus said, of the Pharisees :
5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.
8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted. Matthew 23:5-12
What was important to them was what people saw. Yes. That did kill them.
What is your understanding of the thousand years of Revelation 20? When do you believe it occurs? Do you believe it is a literal one thousand years?
Revelation 20, continues from Revelation 19, which describes Armageddon - God's war, against the nations, by means of the King of kings and Lord of lords, along with his army.
Revelation 20
2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for
a thousand years.
3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until
the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for
a short time.
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ
a thousand years.
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until
the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for
a thousand years.
7 When
the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison
The
1,000 year rule of Christ, during the time the Devil is bound, is specific, in contrast to the undefined
short period of time, when the Devil will be loosed.
This is similar to Revelation 7:1-9, which gives a specific number (144,000), in contrast to an undefined amount (a great multitude that no one could count).
Thus, I see the specified number and period as literal.
It seems like you don't really want people to know what you believe for some reason.
There is something wrong with this statement. It not consistent with facts.
A person posting scriptures on various topics, on various threads, is not trying to hide what they believe.
That's what I said I believe, didn't I? I know I've said it many times on this forum. So, yes, that is what I believe.
That's a strange question to ask me since I don't believe the phrase "the last days" is ever used in reference to the Jewish system.
That's what I said as well.
So, I'm saying what you said. Why did you say "I never said that."?
Hold on here. There is the earthly city of Jerusalem and then separately there is the heavenly Jerusalem which you are referring to. Why are you acting as if there is only one Jerusalem?
Where did you see me refer to heavenly Jerusalem?
Jerusalem in Israel is not Mount Zion?
What does the scriptures tell us?
13 For the Lord has chosen Zion; He has desired it for His dwelling place:
14 “This is My resting place forever; Here I will dwell, for I have desired it.
2 Beautiful in elevation, The joy of the whole earth, Is Mount Zion on the sides of the north, The city of the great King.
3 God is in her palaces; He is known as her refuge.
21 Blessed be the Lord out of Zion, Who dwells in Jerusalem!
68 But chose the tribe of Judah, Mount Zion which He loved.
Yes, it is.
The Jerusalem referenced in Luke 21:20-24 is the earthly city of Jerusalem that was destroyed by the Roman armies in 70 AD. Jesus said when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies you know its desolation is near. He was referring to the earthly city of Jerusalem and referring to when it and its temple buildings would be destroyed.
I haven't said otherwise.
I can accept that the times of the Gentiles began when you believe they did. Since you are saying that it ended "when the Messiah is enthroned as king of God's kingdom" that would mean you believe it ended upon Christ's resurrection (and/or ascension) since that is when He was enthroned as king of God's kingdom (see Daniel 7:13-14 and Ephesians 1:19-23).
According to Daniel 7:13, 14, the Messiah "was given
dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away, And His kingdom the one Which shall not be destroyed."
This scripture specifically refers to Christ receiving Kingdom power in the everlasting kingdom.
Daniel does nor place this event in the first century. Read Daniel 7:7-14
Ephesians 1:19-23 refers to God giving Christ authority - "
He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church.... the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power, which [God] worked in Christ."
Receiving authority, as prince, is different to receiving a kingdom.
For example, even before his ascension, Jesus said, "
All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth." Matthew 28:18
Of him, we read:
Philippians 2:
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9
Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and
that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ
is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
The kingdom of God, I've said this before, is an expression of God's sovereignty.
Hence, it has a specific function, and purpose. When it began to rule, those became evident.
The disciples asked Jesus what sign they should look for, when Jesus was in kingdom power. Matthew 24:3
But, but I disagree with your understanding of what the Gentiles trampling on Jerusalem entails.
What does it entail?
Again, the context of Luke 21:20-24 is in relation to what happened in 70 AD when the Romans armies surrounded the earthly city of Jerusalem before destroying it and make it desolate. So, the times of the Gentiles, in that context, couldn't have ended any time before that.
I agree.
I am not the one saying the Gentile times ended before 70 A.D.
It's the persons who believe the Messiah is enthroned as king of God's kingdom on his ascension.
It is true the Gentile times end on the enthronement of the Messiah. The scriptures undeniably state that fact.
Since Jesus was enthroned as king, long after 70 A.D., and not before, the Gentile times ended long after the destruction of Jerusalem.