Michael stands up - Daniel 12:1, Revelation 12:7-9

[Timtofly]

You say you didn't say last word

Then sll your quotes say last word.

I said the Gospel was the last word, singular. You keep claiming I was talking about Jesus' last words, plural.

 

[dwb001]

I said the Gospel was the last word, singular. You keep claiming I was talking about Jesus' last words, plural.

So maybe you should have clarified the matter earlier.

 

[Timtofly]

I agree with what you’re saying here and Romans 10:18 declares that the end point of the gospel being preached in all the world can be reached through creation, and that there is no difference between Jew and Greek (Romans 10:12). This also shows how the gospel can be preached in all the world without literally every single person being literally preached to by another person.

You say Matthew 24:14 got to the end point but you seem to be saying that the end point comes when the last human gets born.

Unless you think no babies are born in the millennium, the end being referred to in Matthew 24:14 would have to take place at the end of the millennium if this is true, not prior to the millennium.

There is no need for the Gospel in the Millennium. No one is born in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. They would be humans in Adam's incorruptible permanent body, he had prior to being in a state of death.

You know the one where everyone already has all the knowledge of God at conception in the womb? Hebrews 8:10-12

"For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more."

 

[Timtofly]

If that is so, then are you planning on asking the question of how long dost thou not judge? And what answer do you think you will get?

We get the idea that they want to know. Until the end of the this time of trouble from the first Trumpet to the last Trumpet, including the 7 Thunders.

Don't you think John gave us the answer in the next few chapters? Do they literally ask? Do they literally wait? Have they not been waiting since the Cross?

The answer would be a little longer as given. The Gospel is there until at least until the last 3.5 days the two witnesses lay dead in Jerusalem.

 

[grafted branch]

There is no need for the Gospel in the Millennium. No one is born in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. They would be humans in Adam's incorruptible permanent body, he had prior to being in a state of death.

You know the one where everyone already has all the knowledge of God at conception in the womb? Hebrews 8:10-12

"For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more."

In Revelation 20:6 those that have part in the first resurrection shall be priests of God. In Deuteronomy 31:9-12 the priests are commanded at the end of every seven years, in the feast of tabernacles, thou shalt read this law before all Israel in their hearing, that they may learn. In Zechariah 14:18-19 the feast of tabernacles is being observed in the millennium, and people are punished if they don’t keep the feast of tabernacles.

Clearly the word of God or at least the law, is going to be read to the people in the millennium for learning purposes.

 

[grafted branch]

We get the idea that they want to know. Until the end of the this time of trouble from the first Trumpet to the last Trumpet, including the 7 Thunders.

Don't you think John gave us the answer in the next few chapters? Do they literally ask? Do they literally wait? Have they not been waiting since the Cross?

The answer would be a little longer as given. The Gospel is there until at least until the last 3.5 days the two witnesses lay dead in Jerusalem.

That doesn’t really answer my question, all of us who have read Revelation 6 know what the answer is, why would someone “want to know” when we have the answer.

 

[Timtofly]

In Revelation 20:6 those that have part in the first resurrection shall be priests of God. In Deuteronomy 31:9-12 the priests are commanded at the end of every seven years, in the feast of tabernacles, thou shalt read this law before all Israel in their hearing, that they may learn. In Zechariah 14:18-19 the feast of tabernacles is being observed in the millennium, and people are punished if they don’t keep the feast of tabernacles.

Clearly the word of God or at least the law, is going to be read to the people in the millennium for learning purposes.

This is not the Old Covenant. Do you have a copy of the Millennium Covenant?

Obviously there will be laws. God is a God of laws, no? God is a God of order, not chaos, where everything in creation does at it pleases. Paul mentioned the law of sin 3 times. Even sin is a law set in place by God. Once that law is gone, so is Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

Disobedience is instant death per Isaiah 65:20

"for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed."

Similar to the law of a disobedient child, but not exactly. People will die because of disobedience. It seems to point out that a person is still considered a child at 100. But death also happens before 100. One has quite some time to hide their tendency to disobedience. But disobedience has always meant death. If the wage of sin is death, then disobedience results in death. Not like Adam who allowed sin into the world. The norm is eternal life and righteousness. Being abnormal or accursed is one who feels the need to disobey.

Zechariah 14:16 states a nation is punished if they do not send a representative to Israel for the feast of tabernacles. That is disobedience on a national level.

"And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles."

That is why Satan when loosed goes to the nations on the edge of the map, the newest and youngest. Instead of sending a delegation of peace, it will be delegations of war.

 

[Timtofly]

That doesn’t really answer my question, all of us who have read Revelation 6 know what the answer is, why would someone “want to know” when we have the answer.

Why did John state the question if the answer was going to be given? The point is the waiting, not the lack of knowledge.

Could they not have been asking that all along, since the first century? Have you never asked God how much longer? Obviously at the Second Coming, we will have that answer.

 

[AYM]

I think some good arguments can be made by looking at history, and this may be one of them but I tend to put more weight on the scripture. And yes, I know 70AD events are mostly known from history not necessarily scripture.


It looks like you have been following along with my conversation with @Spiritual Jew and as you point out the distinction between Jew and Gentile in regards to Jerusalem being trodden under foot has nothing to do with salvation, to which I agree.

I agree with the Revelation 11:2 holy city tread under foot for 42 months being equated with Luke 21:24.

In Revelation 11:1-2 the temple of God, the altar, and the people that worship therein are measured, and the court without is not measured it is given to the Gentiles. There is clearly a difference for the Gentiles here regarding worshipping, as there was in the old covenant, the outer court was called the Court of the Gentiles.

So we have a problem if this takes place in the new covenant as there is no Jew/Gentile difference in the new covenant. If we follow @Spiritual Jew line of thinking and say since there is a Jew/Gentile difference here it takes place outside of the church (no difference in the church) then you have the temple of God and the people worshipping therein and the court of the Gentiles all happening outside of the church. That doesn’t make sense either.

Solution, this takes place while the old covenant is still being observed, meaning it takes place prior to the old covenant vanishing.

Question, do you think the old covenant has vanished yet?

Replying a few days later:

The new covenant fulfilled the Old Covenant.

Matthew 5:17

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

However, there is still a clear distinction between Jews and Gentiles:

Phil 3:5

circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

While Paul goes on to say that it is counted for loss in Christ, he does not say that he's stopped being Jewish somehow.

So this is why there is meaning behind Luke 21:24 when it defines "the times of the Gentiles".

 

[grafted branch]

This is not the Old Covenant. Do you have a copy of the Millennium Covenant?

No, this is the first time I’ve ever heard of a millennium covenant. Where in the scriptures are you seeing a millennium covenant? Does the new covenant end or does it stay in force along side of the millennium covenant?

Why did John state the question if the answer was going to be given? The point is the waiting, not the lack of knowledge.

Could they not have been asking that all along, since the first century? Have you never asked God how much longer? Obviously at the Second Coming, we will have that answer.

Because the question asked in Revelation 6:10 was asked prior to the writing of Revelation. Trying to place this in the future is a problem because that would mean we believers have the foreknowledge of the answer given, thus no necessity to ask the question in the first place.

 

[grafted branch]

So this is why there is meaning behind Luke 21:24 when it defines "the times of the Gentiles".

Ok, we agree Luke 21:24 is not referring to salvation and we see there remained a difference between Jew and Gentile during the times of the Gentiles.

I personally think Jerusalem being trodden resulted in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD and the old covenant vanishing.

What is your view on Jerusalem being trodden? What purpose does this serve if it’s not related to salvation for Jews or Gentiles or the old covenant vanishing?

 

[Timtofly]

No, this is the first time I’ve ever heard of a millennium covenant. Where in the scriptures are you seeing a millennium covenant? Does the new covenant end or does it stay in force along side of the millennium covenant?


Because the question asked in Revelation 6:10 was asked prior to the writing of Revelation. Trying to place this in the future is a problem because that would mean we believers have the foreknowledge of the answer given, thus no necessity to ask the question in the first place.

Well the Covenant that was mentioned in Hebrews 8 is still future.

When you say prior, do you mean John saw them asking and then wrote that they did ask?

The question was asked at the point they were given robes of white.

"And when he had opened the fifth seal.... And they cried with a loud voice, saying"

The symbolism is about the events of the 5th Seal. The question is not about time.


The point of the 5th Seal is putting on robes of white. It is not about dying, asking questions, nor even waiting.


So saying the question has already been asked is missing the point of the 5th Seal.

Are you saying we don't have the foreknowledge a Second Coming will happen? We have the foreknowledge that Satan will be defeated and bound in a pit in a yet future 1,000 year sentence. We have the foreknowledge that this reality will end some day. We have the foreknowledge that there will be a new and totally different reality in the future. That is what prophecy entails; a foreknowledge of the future.

Knowing about a question and an answer is not that out of the ordinary for a witness of a future event. It does not matter we know the answer. Until prophecy is actually fulfilled will the full effect be realized. God has not even given us the exact foreknowledge. God did not disclose the actual decision that will be made in regards to even waiting. A little while is still vague, not an exact amount.

 

[grafted branch]

When you say prior, do you mean John saw them asking and then wrote that they did ask?

Yes, I believe those who came out of Sheol after the cross are the ones asking how long till their blood is avenged. In Matthew 23:35 it says that upon you(Jerusalem) comes all the righteous blood shed. They are asking how long till that event.

Are you saying we don't have the foreknowledge a Second Coming will happen? We have the foreknowledge that Satan will be defeated and bound in a pit in a yet future 1,000 year sentence. We have the foreknowledge that this reality will end some day. We have the foreknowledge that there will be a new and totally different reality in the future. That is what prophecy entails; a foreknowledge of the future.

Sure we have foreknowledge, we know Christ will return someday in the future. I don’t personally believe in a future millennium but if there is one, nobody’s going to ask how long the millennium is. Everyone already knows just as sure as everyone knows the answer to the question of how long in Revelation 6:10.

 

[CoreyD]

Well the Covenant that was mentioned in Hebrews 8 is still future.

When you say prior, do you mean John saw them asking and then wrote that they did ask?

The question was asked at the point they were given robes of white.

"And when he had opened the fifth seal.... And they cried with a loud voice, saying"

The symbolism is about the events of the 5th Seal. The question is not about time.


The point of the 5th Seal is putting on robes of white. It is not about dying, asking questions, nor even waiting.


So saying the question has already been asked is missing the point of the 5th Seal.

Are you saying we don't have the foreknowledge a Second Coming will happen? We have the foreknowledge that Satan will be defeated and bound in a pit in a yet future 1,000 year sentence. We have the foreknowledge that this reality will end some day. We have the foreknowledge that there will be a new and totally different reality in the future. That is what prophecy entails; a foreknowledge of the future.

Knowing about a question and an answer is not that out of the ordinary for a witness of a future event. It does not matter we know the answer. Until prophecy is actually fulfilled will the full effect be realized. God has not even given us the exact foreknowledge. God did not disclose the actual decision that will be made in regards to even waiting. A little while is still vague, not an exact amount.

@grafted branch is having a fight between his ideas and the scriptures.
Once we put in our mind that all these prophecies are already fulfilled, we are lost to what the scriptures say are in store.
I didn't highlight what is written in Revelation 1:1, because grafted has his mind made, and I don't believe that's about to change.

That's a good question you asked.
When you say prior, do you mean John saw them asking and then wrote that they did ask?
John is recording a vision that he saw - A vision that was given him, of :
“Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.” Revelation 4:1

 

[AYM]

Ok, we agree Luke 21:24 is not referring to salvation and we see there remained a difference between Jew and Gentile during the times of the Gentiles.

I personally think Jerusalem being trodden resulted in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD and the old covenant vanishing.

What is your view on Jerusalem being trodden? What purpose does this serve if it’s not related to salvation for Jews or Gentiles or the old covenant vanishing?

The whole point IMO of the Olivet Discourse is for Christ to answer the questions his disciples had by giving a rough prophetic summary, if you will, of the church age.

Matthew 24 and Luke 13 focus on the tribulation, while Luke 21 focuses on the times of the Gentiles (which - as I'm typing this, I realize is interesting because Luke was a Gentile).

Christ tells them (and us) throughout time of the events which would take place before his coming. A huge event to check off the divine checklist would be Jerusalem no longer being trodden by the Gentiles, and that was fulfilled in 1967.

Just as there were prophecies given to let people know of Christ's first coming, we have prophecies like this to let us know of the 2nd.

Finally - the church fathers documented that no Christians died when Jerusalem was sacked in 70AD - because they read Luke 21 and when they saw Jerusalem surrounded by Vespasian's armies, they fled the city.

 

[grafted branch]

The whole point IMO of the Olivet Discourse is for Christ to answer the questions his disciples had by giving a rough prophetic summary, if you will, of the church age.

Matthew 24 and Luke 13 focus on the tribulation, while Luke 21 focuses on the times of the Gentiles (which - as I'm typing this, I realize is interesting because Luke was a Gentile).

Christ tells them (and us) throughout time of the events which would take place before his coming. A huge event to check off the divine checklist would be Jerusalem no longer being trodden by the Gentiles, and that was fulfilled in 1967.

Just as there were prophecies given to let people know of Christ's first coming, we have prophecies like this to let us know of the 2nd.

Finally - the church fathers documented that no Christians died when Jerusalem was sacked in 70AD - because they read Luke 21 and when they saw Jerusalem surrounded by Vespasian's armies, they fled the city.

Thanks for your explanation on how you view this. If the times of the Gentiles ended in 1967, do you think we are currently in the times of the Jews or is it an unnamed time or something else?

 

[AYM]

Thanks for your explanation on how you view this. If the times of the Gentiles ended in 1967, do you think we are currently in the times of the Jews or is it an unnamed time or something else?

I'm still researching this, thus my forum title - and I definitely may change my views as I'm presented with better understanding on this topic - the more we know, the more we know we don't know.

That being said, currently I believe we're close to the end - waiting for the sun to not shine, moon to not give her light, etc. (Unless those are symbolic, in which case we're even closer to the end of everything). From the perspective of Matthew 24 and Mark 13, we may or may not still be in the Tribulation.

I believe a lot of what I used to believe as a former dispensationalist has actually already happened throughout the 2500 years or so since the book of Daniel was written.

Note: for many, what I said about the Tribulation is a pretty radical statement to say, but let me give some scriptural and historic reasons why I say this:

The word tribulation in the Greek is thlipsis. It's a word that we see throughout the New Testament, including in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 (but not in Luke at all). It means tribulation but also affliction.

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

But look at Romans 12:12 and Revelation 1:9.

Romans 12:12
rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer

Revelation 1:9
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

In the Greek, though it's not translated in the KJV, the definite article τῇ appears before thlipsis. The Tribulation. Note John is saying he's a companion in the tribulation.

Also - while so much has been inferred about what happens in the Tribulation, take a look at what is directly said about this time:

Mark 13:19-22
For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. 20And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days. 21And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: 22for false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

(Remember, affliction in the Greek is thlipsis, or tribulation - the same event)

These are things that demonstrably happened from the Pentecost, through the execution of Stephen all the way until this very day. Christians throughout time have been afflicted, persecuted and have been martyred for the cause of Christ. I can spare the details of the Roman persecutions, Islamic Jihad, and other horrors recorded in Foxe's Book of Martyrs, all the way to the present day in countries like Iran and China. We are abundantly blessed in the USA to be able to type on a forum and discuss the coming of our Lord, but for many Christians throughout history, they worshiped and continue to worship the Lord at the cost of their lives.

EDIT: Full disclosure, I'm not a linguist. I have Google

 

[grafted branch]

I'm still researching this, thus my forum title - and I definitely may change my views as I'm presented with better understanding on this topic - the more we know, the more we know we don't know.

I too am still studying these things, when I first started on this forum I was Amil because that’s what I first learned from a radio program some years ago. I’m now preterist after looking at the different views, thinking about it, and asking questions. I know some of the folks on this forum have been in church all their lives, are pastors, and/or have written books, so there is a lot of wisdom here. I’m sure they chuckle sometimes at how I work through some of these things but I personally think the preterist view has the least problems.

The word tribulation in the Greek is thlipsis. It's a word that we see throughout the New Testament, including in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 (but not in Luke at all). It means tribulation but also affliction.

I certainly agree that Christians have endured tribulation through out the world but I’m personally not so sure that’s what’s being referred to in Matthew 24:21 and Mark 13:19. Someone could argue that great tribulation happened in the Noah flood and greater tribulation than that has to occur to qualify as “such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be”.

I’ve seen an argument made for the great tribulation meaning the spiritual blindness in part that happened to Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in (Romans 11:25). The argument being that no greater tribulation can occur than spiritual blindness, physical tribulation may result in death but spiritual blindness results eternal damnation, the greatest tribulation of all.

From what I’ve seen so far, I think the great tribulation being spiritual blindness seems to be the best fit, although I’m not 100% sure. As for Revelation 1:9 and John being a companion in the tribulation, I would say it’s not entirely clear if he’s referring to great tribulation or if he’s just equating his time at Patmos to the tribulation that was happening to the seven churches in chapters 2-3 at that time.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I don't understand that.
You tell me, you can't read my mind, and I need to try to be more specific.
I express that I was being specific, and asked you to help me out, in showing me how to be more specific, and you say "Whatever. Let's move on from that."
Is that how Christians help others?

Okay, let's move on then, but just remember that I tried. You didn't help.

LOL. I could see that you were just not going to get it, so I decided it's not worth the time going on and on trying to help you get it. Isn't it up to me to decide what I think is worth my time or not? You don't need to take offense if I feel that spending a lot more time on that with no guarantee that you'd ever get it was not worth it. Sometimes, it's better to just move on when things are going nowhere. I'm not sure why you can't understand that simple concept.

What do you mean by being "mysterious about it"?
Would you like me to write out a list of what I believe, for you?
I was not aware of that being the purpose and requirements of these forum.
Do you normally ask others to do this?

No, because others aren't afraid to use labels to describe what they believe. As of now I have no idea if you believe that Jesus will return before the thousand years or after. And I have no idea of what your understanding of the thousand years is exactly. But, maybe you address that later in your post. We'll see.

Revelation 20, continues from Revelation 19, which describes Armageddon - God's war, against the nations, by means of the King of kings and Lord of lords, along with his army.

Revelation 20
2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.
3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison

The 1,000 year rule of Christ, during the time the Devil is bound, is specific, in contrast to the undefined short period of time, when the Devil will be loosed.
This is similar to Revelation 7:1-9, which gives a specific number (144,000), in contrast to an undefined amount (a great multitude that no one could count).
Thus, I see the specified number and period as literal.

So, do you see the thousand years as a literal one thousand years occurring after Jesus returns in the future then? Which is what premillennialists believe.

There is something wrong with this statement. It not consistent with facts.
A person posting scriptures on various topics, on various threads, is not trying to hide what they believe.

I meant that in the sense of you not wanting to apply any label to your overall beliefs. Of course you have stated a few things that you believe, but I had no idea of what your overall eschatological beliefs are before. I'm getting a little better understanding after reading this post, but it's still not entirely clear to me.

According to Daniel 7:13, 14, the Messiah "was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away, And His kingdom the one Which shall not be destroyed."

This scripture specifically refers to Christ receiving Kingdom power in the everlasting kingdom.
Daniel does nor place this event in the first century. Read Daniel 7:7-14

Ephesians 1:19-23 refers to God giving Christ authority - "He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church.... the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power, which [God] worked in Christ."

Receiving authority, as prince, is different to receiving a kingdom.
For example, even before his ascension, Jesus said, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth." Matthew 28:18

Of him, we read:
Philippians 2:
8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

I disagree. It's clear to me that Daniel 7:13-14 describes the same thing as Ephesians 1:19-23. They both describe Jesus being in heaven at the right hand of the Father and having received Kingdom power at that point. So, they are talking about the time when He was resurrected from the dead and a little later ascended to heaven at the right hand of the Father. It's talking about the spiritual Kingdom of which He is the King right now and of which those who belong to Him are part of right now.

Colossians 1:12 and giving joyful thanks to the Father, who has qualified you[f] to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light. 13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

I agree.
I am not the one saying the Gentile times ended before 70 A.D.
It's the persons who believe the Messiah is enthroned as king of God's kingdom on his ascension.

Wrong. I believe He was "enthroned as king of God's kingdom on his ascension", but do not believe that the times of the Gentiles ended before 70 AD or in 70 AD. The times of the Gentiles refer to times when Gentiles trample on Jerusalem and those times haven't ended yet.

It is true the Gentile times end on the enthronement of the Messiah.

He was enthroned long ago when He ascended to heaven, as scripture makes clear, so that is not true.

The scriptures undeniably state that fact.

Please don't call your opinions facts. It's not a good look.

Since Jesus was enthroned as king, long after 70 A.D., and not before, the Gentile times ended long after the destruction of Jerusalem.

I disagree. I don't know how you can read passages like Matthew 28:16-18 and Ephesians 1:19-23 and conclude that he has not yet been enthroned as king.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I too am still studying these things, when I first started on this forum I was Amil because that’s what I first learned from a radio program some years ago. I’m now preterist after looking at the different views, thinking about it, and asking questions. I know some of the folks on this forum have been in church all their lives, are pastors, and/or have written books, so there is a lot of wisdom here. I’m sure they chuckle sometimes at how I work through some of these things but I personally think the preterist view has the least problems.

You are a partial preterist, right? You can be a partial preterist and be an Amil at the same time. Most partial preterists are Amils. So, are you really meaning to say that you are Postmil rather than Amil now?