Media/Magic: What's a proper stance on Harry Potter/stories in Ancient Christendom?

[Gxg (G²)]

yeah, it was because, as stated earlier, that it was an atheist repsonse to Narnia. the problem is that the book actually has God in it. He is weak and inept in the books, but He is there. kinda a weak way at defending atheism.

and the movie was just awful. I saw it for free and I wish I could get those two years of my life back.

As God was in the book series but essentially feeble/absent, wouldn't that be more of a way of defending Deism rather than atheism?

On the movie, can't blame ya for wanting to go back and not invest in it - although I was taken off guard by the getting back 2 yrs of your life. How was it the case that the movie cost you 2 yrs, if I'm understanding you?

 

[ArmyMatt]

As God was in the book series but essentially feeble/absent, wouldn't that be more of a way of defending Deism rather than atheism?

On the movie, can't blame ya for wanting to go back and not invest in it - although I was taken off guard by the getting back 2 yrs of your life. How was it the case that the movie cost you 2 yrs, if I'm understanding you?

first point yeah, it would seem

second point, hahahaha, I meant hours

 

[MKJ]

You know, i think I would actually rather have my kids read The Golden Compass than Harry Potter.

Harry Potter is not, to my mind, evil or going to drive kids to the dark side. But it is essentially fluff. Rather poorly written fluff. It isnt really Christian or non-Christian, it is pretty much in line with popular culture on the subjects it treats, where popular culture is fairly reasonable.

The Golden Compass is actually a well written book, with much more serious and subtle themes. It does engage directly with a Christian worldview, and it isnt a Christian book, but it takes the questions it treats very seriously, as if they are important and deserve intelligent consideration. And there is a kind of consistency in the imaginary world that it presents that brings out some very interesting ideas about God, about the Fall, and about the nature of good and evil.

One of the main themes it explores is the idea that in the Fall, we became as Gods, knowing good and evil, treating it through a coming of age story that spans the three novels. It is hard to imagine HP even attempting to treat something that sophisticated, and I think if it tried it would fail because the imaginary world has no internal metaphysical consistency.


As far as general attacks on fantasy - I think one problem people who whig out about that stuff have is that they think that all magic in stories is the same sort of thing, and it is all witchcraft. But that isnt the case, often it stands in for something quite different, and even witchcraft in a story may have little or no resemblance to the sort of thing Christians ought to worry about.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

The Golden Compass? Ucckkkk....forget it!

How about skipping Harry and the Compass?! I'm sticking with Choose Your Own Adventures!

You know, i think I would actually rather have my kids read The Golden Compass than Harry Potter.

Harry Potter is not, to my mind, evil or going to drive kids to the dark side. But it is essentially fluff. Rather poorly written fluff. It isnt really Christian or non-Christian, it is pretty much in line with popular culture on the subjects it treats, where popular culture is fairly reasonable.

The Golden Compass is actually a well written book, with much more serious and subtle themes. It does engage directly with a Christian worldview, and it isnt a Christian book, but it takes the questions it treats very seriously, as if they are important and deserve intelligent consideration. And there is a kind of consistency in the imaginary world that it presents that brings out some very interesting ideas about God, about the Fall, and about the nature of good and evil.

One of the main themes it explores is the idea that in the Fall, we became as Gods, knowing good and evil, treating it through a coming of age story that spans the three novels. It is hard to imagine HP even attempting to treat something that sophisticated, and I think if it tried it would fail because the imaginary world has no internal metaphysical consistency.


As far as general attacks on fantasy - I think one problem people who whig out about that stuff have is that they think that all magic in stories is the same sort of thing, and it is all witchcraft. But that isnt the case, often it stands in for something quite different, and even witchcraft in a story may have little or no resemblance to the sort of thing Christians ought to worry about.

 

[gracefullamb]

.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Actually THEY DO! lol...bought some for my eldest a while back...they make 'em for smaller kids and upper grades. I bought a huuuuge grip of those choose your own adventure books from the 1980's in a giant lot on Ebay about 8 years ago for when I'd have kids someday. Very cool! I'll put 'em with the Nancy Drew, Hardy Boys, LOTR, and host of other books I adored as a kid for them.

My kids already have like 500 plus books in this house. I'm a teacher, so they had no choice but have the kids' library of Alexandria!

Yeah, I was a nerdy kid. And to prove my point, I loved and STILL love the Lone Wolf/Greystar the Wizard choose your own adventure books!

Do they even write those anymore?

 

[Gxg (G²)]

first point yeah, it would seem

second point, hahahaha, I meant hours

Cool - as I was really about to say "Wow...that deep, huh" when it came to the book impacting on seemingily year dynamic.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

As far as general attacks on fantasy - I think one problem people who whig out about that stuff have is that they think that all magic in stories is the same sort of thing, and it is all witchcraft. But that isnt the case, often it stands in for something quite different, and even witchcraft in a story may have little or no resemblance to the sort of thing Christians ought to worry about.

Good point. I remember one family I was close to saying they'd not allow their kids to watch "Mulan" (one of my favorite Disney films - probably my favorite second to "Beauty and the Beast")...and their reasons for forbidding Mulan was that it promoted ancestor worship. I saw the film but thought "You can't tell a tale from that culture without actually representing aspects of what the people really thought/felt" - and as my siblings never walked away worshipping the dead, I thought it was a bit overboard.

Some folks do the same with saying you can't watch Little Mermaid - due to the witchcraft done by Ursula - and although I respect their choices, it is odd when you see how extensive their Disney Collection is on other vidoes with a host of worldviews that are counter to CHristianity...be it Simba talking to Mufasa after he died/the "Circle of Life" concept that other believers said was Pantheistic (like one of my Bible teachers said in highschool)...or Pocahantas talking to Mother Willow (a tree) in the animism/Earth worship others said was advocated.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

The Golden Compass? Ucckkkk....forget it!

How about skipping Harry and the Compass?! I'm sticking with Choose Your Own Adventures!

Old School...

 

[ArmyMatt]

Good point. I remember one family I was close to saying they'd not allow their kids to watch "Mulan" (one of my favorite Disney films - probably my favorite second to "Beauty and the Beast")...and their reasons for forbidding Mulan was that it promoted ancestor worship. I saw the film but thought "You can't tell a tale from that culture without actually representing aspects of what the people really thought/felt" - and as my siblings never walked away worshipping the dead, I thought it was a bit overboard.

Some folks do the same with saying you can't watch Little Mermaid - due to the witchcraft done by Ursula - and although I respect their choices, it is odd when you see how extensive their Disney Collection is on other vidoes with a host of worldviews that are counter to CHristianity...be it Simba talking to Mufasa after he died/the "Circle of Life" concept that other believers said was Pantheistic (like one of my Bible teachers said in highschool)...or Pocahantas talking to Mother Willow (a tree) in the animism/Earth worship others said was advocated.

I heard folks say the same about A Christmas Carol, because it promotes paganism with the three spirits and Jacob Marley's Ghost, and they neglect that the focus of the story is the repentence and salvation of Scrooge.

 

[Dorothea]

I think the problem with that is it was written by an atheist as a direct "answer" to the Narnia books.

I won't be reading those books or watching those films.

Mary

Ah, ok. I didn't have enough interest, and neither did the kids, to really go see it or bother learning more about the outcry.

 

[Dorothea]

Angela Lansberry in one of the best films ever - as it was a wonderful musical and a classic. Mary Poppins would be another to add to that

We love Mary Poppins.

 

[Dorothea]

yeah, it was because, as stated earlier, that it was an atheist repsonse to Narnia. the problem is that the book actually has God in it. He is weak and inept in the books, but He is there. kinda a weak way at defending atheism.

and the movie was just awful. I saw it for free and I wish I could get those two years of my life back.

Yeah, sounds like we didn't miss out on much.

 

[Dorothea]

The Golden Compass? Ucckkkk....forget it!

How about skipping Harry and the Compass?! I'm sticking with Choose Your Own Adventures!

I'm wondering if the bolded are these books I read (a few of them) in junior high school I think it was. Where you read the beginning chapter(s) and then you have to select which direction you want to go in the story, and then skip to whatever page that story continues on, and you end up ok or dead. Is that what you're talking about, or am I off on something totally different?

Incidentally, I bought one of those books for my son, and he liked it. The only thing was that he said they were too short.

 

[Dorothea]

Actually THEY DO! lol...bought some for my eldest a while back...they make 'em for smaller kids and upper grades. I bought a huuuuge grip of those choose your own adventure books from the 1980's in a giant lot on Ebay about 8 years ago for when I'd have kids someday. Very cool! I'll put 'em with the Nancy Drew, Hardy Boys, LOTR, and host of other books I adored as a kid for them.

My kids already have like 500 plus books in this house. I'm a teacher, so they had no choice but have the kids' library of Alexandria!

Yeah, I was a nerdy kid. And to prove my point, I loved and STILL love the Lone Wolf/Greystar the Wizard choose your own adventure books!

I suggested The Hardy Boys for some fun mystery for my older son. I think he'd probably like them.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Yeah, sounds like we didn't miss out on much.

the Polar bear fight was about all that I liked it that movie, just cause armored bears beating each other up is pretty cool. but aside from that, a total waste. I shoulda waited for the youtube clip.

 

[Adaephon]

I read the first two books of the series. Golden Compass and Subtle Knife. Never read the last, Amber Spyglass. I heard the series really flopped at the end with the author turning a pretty cool story into a total Terry Goodkind, Sword of Truth series level of obnoxious soapboxing. Even nonchristians say that.

Also heard the movie adaptation was pretty mediocre at best.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

We love Mary Poppins.

It was truly one of the most beautiful films ever. Was singing the songs to it a few weeks ago and thought "Dang - that film is very memorable "

 

[Dorothea]

It was truly one of the most beautiful films ever. Was singing the songs to it a few weeks ago and thought "Dang - that film is very memorable "

Yep. One of the best movies ever. Great messages.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Yep. One of the best movies ever. Great messages.

Dick Van Dyke is enough reason to watch the film, but I'd be good watching it if Julie Andrews was playing a lead role in the film.

Still wonder what exactly she was. Obviously she had a lot of magical things present - but I never knew if she was some sort of enchantress or a witch or something else entitely..and some of the debates on the issue (be it thoughts from those into Paganism/Wicca or those who are believers or those who are atheists) have been interesting:

• Mary Poppins - Disney, Wicca and Witchcraft
• Mary Poppins - Good Witch, Bad Witch
• From Mouse to Mermaid: The Politics of Film, Gender, and Culture -

Always makes for good discussion.

Apart from that, at times she did seem pretty vain - paticularly when she'd claim no flaws in herself. "Practically perfect in every way" my foot