Media/Magic: What's a proper stance on Harry Potter/stories in Ancient Christendom?

Gxg (G²)

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Was writing this due to how I was talking at one point to another sister in the Lord on where she stood on the issue of fantasy - specifically on some books I've seen little children gobble up quickly and have seen many Christian parents defend. Specifically, she noted how she used to be a defender of series such as Harry Potter because of the thought that it was simple imagination and a good plot - and yet in seeking the Lord, she came to realize how far she had to be willing to bend in order to justify many of the outright occultic/dark magic aspects in the text and ignore the ways kids sought to walk out what they saw.

I was intrigued by what she said in light of how there were times I'd hear others say that the early church took paganism very seriously and did not wish to tolerate it - and yet they'd also argue how folks like Harry Potter were great rolemodels ....but then say of others reading things like StarWars or Startrek that they were just supporting corrupt pagan ideals.

Personally, I Cannot stand Harry Potter, as the man is corrupt on a myriad of levels and I'm always amazed whenever believers on my side of the street try to justify reading the series despite the rebellion/wickedness he does consistently and the Occult that's present throughout the series. THere was an excellent series on the issue that really helped me out years ago when it came to seeing some of the things that were scattered all throughout the series:



I thought it was an excellent documentary on the issue that broke things down on the intention behind the book and the impact it's having - with many believers enabling others to go with the system. Do any Orthodox present feel that Potter is something to be avoided at all costs and that it has opened the door for a lot of problems? Or do you feel that there are to be considered as concerns? Do you feel that all books with reference to magical elements are a danger to children? I ask because I know there are many who say that once you say something like Potter is bad, you have to get rid of all films from Disney like "Alladin" or "Little Mermaid", "Beauty and the Beast" and others. And you'd not be allowed to study the genere of fantasy. So that is something to be considered. There are others, actually, who have gone even that far in order to avoid any type of compromise (as they see it). I am not at that point currently - and to be truthful, I enjoy stories/legends and have been open to a number of things having existed since many legends have a hint of truth in them many time. As said before in discussion on comics/stories, I happen to be a Disney's "Gargoyles" fan where that was a big focus - #139 #146, #152. But even I had times where I was not really comfortable when going back/seeing what was said in the series and the ways they seemed to send subtle messages that seemed to impact one's worldview.​

And with the media we see daily in everyday life, it is interesting to see how much we often don't realize that people see the Occult daily and often have no idea it's what they're encountering...especially as it concerns T.V. and the media. Researching on the matter, I've been amazed at how many movie stars and musicians have openly noted - whether that be rap music or pop or rock and many others - to be involved in the occult for achieving financial success and inspiration. It's not even hidden but the reality is that people don't read.​

For a good documentary on the issue:


All of that goes back to the issue of understanding where the boundary lines are in media - and seeing what is or isn't proper. At what point does it become an issue? If one can watch a film on magic, what is the problem with reading a book dedicated to it? If children can read books like Harry Potter for inspirational themes (as many parents claim), why would not be allowed to study books on the Occult on their own for any type of universal lessons they can apply to their own lives? Wrestling through it​
 
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ArmyMatt

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the occult will always gravitate toward anything, good or bad, to support their pick and choose kinda theology, which in my opinion, is the real danger of all of this. I don't think we can solely single out any one series. the reason is that I was in a bookstore one time and I saw a chart that compared Tolkien's Valar with other pagan gods and how to venerate and worship them, and a magazine article on the Church of Jediism, and how they were suing because someone denied them their right to wear brown robes......yeah......

it's being done with Harry Potter, more I think because televangelists make a stink about it than anything.

Fr Seraphim Rose states that to have an Orthodox world view, we need to be able to look at something and discern the good from the bad, because very few things are all bad or all good.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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the occult will always gravitate toward anything, good or bad, to support their pick and choose kinda theology, which in my opinion, is the real danger of all of this.
From what I've studied, those involved in the Occult do tend to have a systematic way of thinking on things - even though there is variation. Paganism and Wicca are in the same category as well.

But indeed, they always gravatite toward anything.

I don't think we can solely single out any one series. the reason is that I was in a bookstore one time and I saw a chart that compared Tolkien's Valar with other pagan gods and how to venerate and worship them, and a magazine article on the Church of Jediism
I remember coming across the Church of Jediism back in 2008 when keeping up with other ministries seeking to address the issue- and indeed, it was outright trippy to see others go that far with Starwars (more shared here and here/here/here).

Do you actually have the chart name so that I could investigate it myself? I've seen other accounts of the ways Tolkien's ideology was compared to pagan/demon gods - some things already being present in the cultures he wrote from - but the chart sounds interesting...like something you'd see in LifeWay Christian bookstore. I definately think you can't single out series randomly - and yet on the same token, I do think there has to be honesty in not ignoring things found in some which one may favor because others went wild with other series.

In example, just because someone goes crazy making a religion out of going to the Supermarket doesn't mean Supermarkets are bad - and yet someone using that same argument can make a world of problems when saying there's nothing wrong with Buffy the Vampire Slayer or Japanese Animes based in Shintoism/demonology and saying that just because others went crazy doesn't mean the material is objectionable. Similar to others who see drivers who are reckless destroying cars and having others say that people harm others rather than cars - only to have others cheer it on and try to drive illegally or drive cars that are not safe.

they were suing because someone denied them their right to wear brown robes......yeah......
From what I remember, back in 09, an incident occurred where the founder of the Jedi religion was thrown out of a Tesco supermarket for wearing his distinctive brown hood....specifically being told the hood flouted store rules and was ordered to remove it or leave the supermarket. He claimed it was discrimination against his beliefs...

Hadn't kept up since, but interesting that there were law suits to wear their brown robes. Bananas...


it's being done with Harry Potter, more I think because televangelists make a stink about it than anything.
I don't think Harry Potter was simply isolated because of televangelists - as many noted the same things long before it became popular - and others outside of Evangelical culture have long refused to even support it. Many within Eastern Christianity especially.

I appreciated some of the things shared by H.G. Bishop Youssef, Bishop, Coptic Orthodox Diocese of the Southern United States.As said best elsewhere, from a Coptic Orthodox perspective:

The Holy Bible condemns such practices, considering them an abomination; "or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For all who do these things are an abomination to the LORD, and because of these abominations the LORD your God drives them out from before you" (Deut 18:11-12) and those who practice them will not inherit the kingdom of God (Gal 5:20-21).

The devil can give people the power to perform many things. We read at the time of Moses and the plagues that Pharaoh's sorcerers and magicians were capable of imitating Aaron in changing their rods into serpents (Exo 7:10-12) and to duplicate one of the plagues (Exo 8:6-7) but not the others (Exo 8:18; 9:11).

Harry Potter is a fictional story. Although it makes a distinction between good wizards and bad wizards, reading it might dangerously desensitize the readers, making acceptable to them the idea of good wizards and witches.While the Holy Bible teaches that no one should read or keep such books, Harry Potter goes to school to learn magic and wizardry. "Also, many of those who had practiced magic brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all" (Acts 19:19).



Of course, there've been several debates on the issue I've tried to keep up with within the world of Orthodoxy.
 
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Mary of Bethany

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I am personally a big fan of Harry Potter, and I know several Orthodox priests who are also fans, and have read the books to/with their children. I also know at least one Orthodox priest who comes down on the other side of the issue.

This is not a black & white issue in Orthodoxy.

Mary
 
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MariaRegina

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Gxg (G²);62281558 said:
From what I've studied, those involved in the Occult do tend to have a systematic way of thinking on things - even though there is variation. Paganism and Wicca are in the same category as well.

But indeed, they always gravatite toward anything.

I remember coming across the Church of Jediism back in 2008 when keeping up with other ministries seeking to address the issue- and indeed, it was outright trippy to see others go that far with Starwars (more shared here and here/here/here).

Do you actually have the chart name so that I could investigate it myself? I've seen other accounts of the ways Tolkien's ideology was compared to pagan/demon gods - some things already being present in the cultures he wrote from - but the chart sounds interesting...like something you'd see in LifeWay Christian bookstore. I definately think you can't single out series randomly - and yet on the same token, I do think there has to be honesty in not ignoring things found in some which one may favor because others went wild with other series.

In example, just because someone goes crazy making a religion out of going to the Supermarket doesn't mean Supermarkets are bad - and yet someone using that same argument can make a world of problems when saying there's nothing wrong with Buffy the Vampire Slayer or Japanese Animes based in Shintoism/demonology and saying that just because others went crazy doesn't mean the material is objectionable. Similar to others who see drivers who are reckless destroying cars and having others say that people harm others rather than cars - only to have others cheer it on and try to drive illegally or drive cars that are not safe.

From what I remember, back in 09, an incident occurred where the founder of the Jedi religion was thrown out of a Tesco supermarket for wearing his distinctive brown hood....specifically being told the hood flouted store rules and was ordered to remove it or leave the supermarket. He claimed it was discrimination against his beliefs...

Hadn't kept up since, but interesting that there were law suits to wear their brown robes. Bananas...


I don't think Harry Potter was simply isolated because of televangelists - as many noted the same things long before it became popular - and others outside of Evangelical culture have long refused to even support it. Many within Eastern Christianity especially.

As said best elsewhere, from a Coptic Orthodox perspective:

The Holy Bible condemns such practices, considering them an abomination; "or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For all who do these things are an abomination to the LORD, and because of these abominations the LORD your God drives them out from before you" (Deut 18:11-12) and those who practice them will not inherit the kingdom of God (Gal 5:20-21).

The devil can give people the power to perform many things. We read at the time of Moses and the plagues that Pharaoh's sorcerers and magicians were capable of imitating Aaron in changing their rods into serpents (Exo 7:10-12) and to duplicate one of the plagues (Exo 8:6-7) but not the others (Exo 8:18; 9:11).

Harry Potter is a fictional story. Although it makes a distinction between good wizards and bad wizards, reading it might dangerously desensitize the readers, making acceptable to them the idea of good wizards and witches.While the Holy Bible teaches that no one should read or keep such books, Harry Potter goes to school to learn magic and wizardry. "Also, many of those who had practiced magic brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all" (Acts 19:19).


Of course, there've been several debates on the issue I've tried to keep up with within the world of Orthodoxy.

The Greek Orthodox Priest in charge of Ancient Faith Radio did a program supporting the Harry Potter series back in 2003 or 2004. Many went along with him. I did not. Some theological fantasies are okay and indirectly lead the inquirer to Christ, such as C.S. Lewis did in his Chronicles of Narnia, but the Harry Potter series failed in that regard.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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I am personally a big fan of Harry Potter, and I know several Orthodox priests who are also fans, and have read the books to/with their children. I also know at least one Orthodox priest who comes down on the other side of the issue.

This is not a black & white issue in Orthodoxy.

Mary
From what I've seen, there've been many Orthodox priests arguing in favor of it zealously - while others are a middle of the road mindset in saying "So long as kids don't love it more than the Bible or begin to treat it as real".

Likewise, there are just as many who say the issue should not have been tolerated just as certain forms of rock/satanic music should never have been promoted by believers ( some of that being so blantant it is not even easily hidden - if aware of the documentary entitled They Sold Their Souls for Rock and Roll - part 1 and part 4 here/here).

Indeed, there is a lot of camps developed on the issue which differ with each other just as it is in Evangelical culture. Would be curious as to the reasons your own priest gave in support of it - in addition to what the priest said against it that you're aware of.

Some of the things done with the series have been astounding to me - as it seems others have gotten even bolder with it after seeing some of the acceptance by others. There was recently a Harry Potter icon made that offended MANY Orthodox believers - and it was not accidential as if they didn't know what icons symbolized ..more discussed here and here. It was since removed, to my knowledge - but the fact that it was even attempted seemed to speak volumes.


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harry-cover-480.jpg
 
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Gxg (G²)

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The Greek Orthodox Priest in charge of Ancient Faith Radio did a program supporting the Harry Potter series back in 2003 or 2004..
I think I may've missed that one....but will need to go back/review.

Many went along with him. I did not. Some theological fantasies are okay and indirectly lead the inquirer to Christ, such as C.S. Lewis did in his Chronicles of Narnia, but the Harry Potter series failed in that regard
Curious as to why you felt Potter failed in regards to pointing others to CHrist.

As it concerns Lewis, I do wonder on that one truthfully - as others in the time of Lewis warned him on the dangers of bringing in so much of Greek/Roman and Indian mythology - with their discomfort being how it opens the door for others to not be pointed to CHrist. As said before, many note that they have serious issue with people continually digesting Chronicles of Narnia due to many of the concepts within it that are found in pagan cultures (i.e. Centaurs, Minotaurs, Satyr and other creatures). The series borrows characters and ideas from Greek, Turkish and Roman mythology, as well as from traditional British and Irish fairy tales.. and granted, many understand that those creatures are used to teach on Biblical principles. And as C.S Lewis himself noted in "The Weight of Glory":
The truth is that the resemblances tell nothing either for or against the truth of Christian Theology. If you start from the assumption that the Theology is false, the resemblances are quite consistent with that assumption. One would expect creatures of the same sort, faced with the same universe, to make the same false guess more than once. But if you start with the assumption that the Theology is true, the resemblances fit in equally well. Theology, while saying that a special illumination has been vouchsafed to Christians and (earlier) to Jews, also says that there is some divine illumination vouchsafed to all men . . . We should, therefore, expect to find in the imagination of great Pagan teachers and myth makers some glimpse of that theme which we believe to be the very plot of the whole cosmic story -- the theme of the incarnation, death, and re-birth. And the difference between the Pagan Christs (Balder, Osiris, etc.) and the Christ Himself is much what we should expect to find. The Pagan stories are all about someone dying and rising, either every year, or else nobody knows where and nobody knows when. The Christian story is about a historical personage, whose execution can be dated pretty accurately, under a named Roman magistrate, and with whom the society that He founded is in a continuous relation down to the present day. It is not the difference between falsehood and truth. It is the difference between a real event on the one hand and dim dreams or premonitions of that same event on the other.
-(The Weight of Glory, New York: Macmillan / Collier Books, revised and expanded edition, 1980, edited by Walter Hooper, New York: 83-84, from "Is Theology Poetry)
Nonetheless, even seeing how paganism can have many roadsigns pointing to truth (early windows into the glory of Christ previewed) can be dangeorus ground...and for many, it's an issue of how those things led into opening the door for fascination in studying mythology.

And for the many who actually went into paganism/never saw C.S Lewis's works as a Christian work on symbolism or applied it as such, it does make for interesting times. Something's very wrong, IMHO, when the books of Lewis have appeared in neo-pagan reading lists and parents say "Oh, it's just like reading Harry Potter - good reading!" (already a big problem since Potter is full of the occult and kids reading it have started to practice spells). For reference on some of what was mentioned in the aforementioned commentary:

Although I am a fan of Lewis's work, I'd be lying if I said I never had some level of discomfort going through some of his works. When I went through Till We Have Faces: A Myth Retold (which is the 1956 novel by C. S. Lewis that's a retelling of the Greek myth of Cupid and Psyche, which had haunted Lewis all his life), I had times wondering why there was so much focus on Greek Mythology in a way that both condemned it - and yet glorified/accepted it as if it was simply how things were.

For example, in C.S. Lewis' 'Till We Have Faces', the Priest of Ungit confronts the King of Glome, demanding the sacrifice of his daughter. And the kings adviser, a Greek war prisoner made slave known as Fox, speaks up to pick apart the pronouncements of the priest of Ungit and reveal how contradictory they are. In regards to the priest response:
'We are hearing much Greek wisdom this morning, King,' said the Priest. 'And I have heard most of it before. I did not need a slave to teach it to me. It is very subtle. But it brings no rain and grows no corn; sacrifice does both. It does not even give them boldness to die. That Greek there is your slave because in some battle he threw down his arms and let them bind his hands and lead him away and sell him, rather than take a spear-thrust in his heart. Much less does it give them understanding of holy things. They demand to see such things clearly, as if the gods were no more than letters written in a book. I, King, have dealth with the gods for three generations of men, and I know that they dazzle our eyes and flow in and out of one another like the eddies of a river, and nothing that is said clearly can be said truly about them. Holy places are dark places. It is life and strength, not knowledge and words, that we get in them. Holy wisdom is not clear and thin like water, but thick and dark like blood.'
There've been many discussions on the aspects Lewis pointed out which many felt were a critique of the hollow nature of pagan culture in their views for sacrifice - and yes, there were aspects of it that were Biblical with Psyche seeming similar in situation to what occurred in Judges 11:20-40 with Jephthah's daughter being sacrificed/set apart for a life of isolation - for that as a big theme in Greek culture and something Lewis highlighted in other settings.

Nonetheless, for the most part, it seemed like some things never seemed necessary and many who read the work ended up having a greater love/appreciation for pagan culture.

It was always a trip to me seeing how J. R. R. Tolkien - already a close friend of Lewis - was instrumental in Lewis' own conversion to Christianity and yet Tolkien was not enthusiastic about the Narnia stories at all. One of the reasons for his dissaproval being due to the eclectic elements of the mythology and what he felt was haphazard incorporation, in part because he disapproved of stories involving travel between real and imaginary worlds. More was shared in the book entitled "C.S Lewis: The Man Behind Narnia" . As a Catholic himself, it was the belief of Tolkien that fantasy should incorporate Christian values without resorting to the allegory Lewis employed.

Lewis was an expert on the subject of allegory and the author of The Allegory of Love - maintaing that the books were not allegory, and preferred to call the Christian aspects of them "suppositional". This indicates Lewis' view of Narnia as a fictional parallel universe. As Lewis wrote in a letter to a Mrs Hook in December 1958:
If Aslan represented the immaterial Deity in the same way in which Giant Despair [a character in The Pilgrim's Progress] represents despair, he would be an allegorical figure. In reality, however, he is an invention giving an imaginary answer to the question, 'What might Christ become like if there really were a world like Narnia, and He chose to be incarnate and die and rise again in that world as He actually has done in ours?' This is not allegory at all.

I do think it's worth taking seriously how Lewis (just like Tolkien) has received criticism from some Christians and Christian organizations who feel that The Chronicles of Narnia promotes "soft-sell paganism and occultism. I can understand the concept of how Lewis felt things in pagan culture could be used as preparation for discussing Christ. Colin Duriez, author of three books on Lewis, suggests that Lewis believed that to reach a post-Christian culture one needed to employ pre-Christian ideas - as discussed best in C.S. Lewis, the Sneaky Pagan | Christianity Today. And yet even Lewis was hesitant to say his stories were Christian Allegories....and it cannot be overlooked that there are some things others will not be able to handle well at any point. For parents not favoring their kids or adults reading Chronicles of Naria/other books by Lewis, I can't blame them - nor do I think it a good thing to wholesale endorse all aspects of what Lewis wrote simply because it was Lewis writing it.

Although Lewis disliked modernism which he regarded as mechanized and sterile, it is interesting to see how he had nearly no reservations about pre-Christian pagan culture - with Christian critics pointing out that Lewis disdained the non-religious agnostic character of modernity, but not the polytheistic character of pagan religion. One can see more in the essay by Lewis entitled God in the Dock: Essays on Theology and Ethics - Page 172 - Google


A lot of it is like people trying to reach out to others in the music industry and choosing to make beats/tunes for others in the hopes that they'll reach them - and yet in the process, they open the door for cross-polinization in a negative sense. Saw it often whenever you'd hear of Christian musicians saying they were gonna reach the world by having secular/unsaved artist on their songs so that the unsaved would hear - and yet all it led to was the unsaved thinking their lifestyle/views were validated and believers being used to give a platform for others to promote things.

Paul seemed to experience the same in Acts 16 with the demon-possessed girl following them around saying "These are the men of the Most High God!!!" - a true statement - and later shutting it down since he didn't want others to look to a demonic source for confirmation. For she was making money for her masters as a fortune teller - and if others saw her associated with the apostles/telling the truth and the apostles confirming it without resistance, others would think "Hey she told the truth - can you tell us something else?"......and even the believers may've thought "Well, she's good since she's with Paul" and thus they would end up tolerating other aspects of where she was at. The issue of using others as enablers to get people into the market you're selling at.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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That was my local paper (Dallas Morning News) that printed the icon story. They received a lot of flack for it - rightfully so.

Mary
What was your reaction to it when you found out? Did you see any other Orthodox who said that they were not bothered by it just as they weren't by the series or others seeing (in their view) CHristian themes involved?
 
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ArmyMatt

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can't give you the chart, it was in some book or magazine that caught my eye, but it basically compared and contrasted, for instance, Manwe with Zeus or Odin, and what would be the proper way to add Manwe to the pantheon of gods that pagans worship.

and I know that Orthodox have come out against it (Elder Ephraim's monasteries have a pamphlet against the Harry Potter series), but what I mean is that it seems that it's the televangelists are the ones that harp so much against it, that they drive folks to it.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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can't give you the chart, it was in some book or magazine that caught my eye, but it basically compared and contrasted, for instance, Manwe with Zeus or Odin, and what would be the proper way to add Manwe to the pantheon of gods that pagans worship.
Interesting.

Will hopefully come across it myself at some point as it sounds intriguing.


and I know that Orthodox have come out against it (Elder Ephraim's monasteries have a pamphlet against the Harry Potter series)
Those pamphlet's are pretty strong .....
, but what I mean is that it seems that it's the televangelists are the ones that harp so much against it, that they drive folks to it.
I wonder on that honestly since it doesn't seem to be televangelists who are the main ones driving others to it. Are they the ones you'd see predominately on the T.V? Of course - but I've only seen them share a couple of times in over 8yrs on Potter - and yet in many books/articles, be it from Evangelical or Orthodox circles, you see equal discussion of it as an issue.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Gxg (G²);62282767 said:
Interesting.

Will hopefully come across it myself at some point as it sounds intriguing.


Those pamphlet's are pretty strong .....
I wonder on that honestly since it doesn't seem to be televangelists who are the main ones driving others to it. Are they the ones you'd see predominately on the T.V? Of course - but I've only seen them share a couple of times in over 8yrs on Potter - and yet in many books/articles, be it from Evangelical or Orthodox circles, you see equal discussion of it as an issue.

I dunno, when I would glance by TBN, it would be every televangelist and their mother talking about some reason why not to read the Harry Potter series, much like when the Da Vinci Code came out.
 
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beardedone

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I don't think the Harry Potter stuff is necessarily good or evil. The real question that needs to be asked is how do we as Christians relate to the culture around us. When you look at some of the Fathers like Justin Martyr, the Cappadocians, Augustine, etc. you can see where they were able to use things from the culture around them to better articulate the faith. Then you have someone like Origen (who I actually do admire for a great deal) who allowed the culture around him to influence his faith. When it comes to things like Harry Potter, I don't think there is a black and white answer to it. Yes, it can be used to get people into the occult but it can also be a good way of pointing people to themes that are in line with Christianity. It depends on how we relate to it and use it in articulating our faith.
 
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Lirenel

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I was never troubled by Harry Potter. It has decent themes of good versus evil, and how doing the right thing is a choice, and a hard one sometimes, and how evil can drag one down into an abyss. I do think that it's important that a reader be mature enough spiritually not to be bothered by the witchcraft aspect, but that's up to individual parents (and priests). Someone solid in the faith can simply read them as good stories.

As for the Valar being equated with pagan mythology, I laugh at that. Specifically, because that was the exact thing Tolkien was alluding to - that the belief in good, spiritual beings (I liken the Ainur to types of angels) who were servants and messengers of Eru (God) was corrupted by Men in later Ages into a belief in capricious, pagan deities. Tolkien was a proponent of the idea of the True Myth, where little hints of light could be found in the corruption of ancient mythologies, that ultimately point towards the Truth of Christ. A bit like beardedone said, about the early Church Fathers relating to the culture around them to talk about the True Faith.

Which then goes back into the reason I don't have issues with Harry Potter. No, witchcraft and wizardry isn't Christian. But there are little hints of light, and a knowledgeable parent reading the book with their kid can use those hints of light to expand on the Truth of Christ.
 
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tapi

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Personally, I enjoy the books, and I think the themes in them are quite compatible with Christianity. Kindness and goodness and above all, love, are the main themes that are evident thrughout the narrative of the long series. I don't find them any more occultish or unChristian than, say, The Cronicles of Narnia or The Lord of The Rings.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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I dunno, when I would glance by TBN, it would be every televangelist and their mother talking about some reason why not to read the Harry Potter series, much like when the Da Vinci Code came out.
Personally, from what I remember seeing all over Christendom in the bookstores and other places, a lot of people flipped out over the Da Vinci code way more than most other subjects. TBN seems to vary alot in seasons.
 
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I don't think the Harry Potter stuff is necessarily good or evil. The real question that needs to be asked is how do we as Christians relate to the culture around us. When you look at some of the Fathers like Justin Martyr, the Cappadocians, Augustine, etc. you can see where they were able to use things from the culture around them to better articulate the faith. Then you have someone like Origen (who I actually do admire for a great deal) who allowed the culture around him to influence his faith. When it comes to things like Harry Potter, I don't think there is a black and white answer to it. Yes, it can be used to get people into the occult but it can also be a good way of pointing people to themes that are in line with Christianity. It depends on how we relate to it and use it in articulating our faith.


I do wonder how far the Fathers would go since they didn't seem to endorse using everything/anything in the culture if it was pagan
 
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Gxg (G²)

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I don't think the Harry Potter stuff is necessarily good or evil. The real question that needs to be asked is how do we as Christians relate to the culture around us. When you look at some of the Fathers like Justin Martyr, the Cappadocians, Augustine, etc. you can see where they were able to use things from the culture around them to better articulate the faith. Then you have someone like Origen (who I actually do admire for a great deal) who allowed the culture around him to influence his faith. When it comes to things like Harry Potter, I don't think there is a black and white answer to it. Yes, it can be used to get people into the occult but it can also be a good way of pointing people to themes that are in line with Christianity. It depends on how we relate to it and use it in articulating our faith.
The writings of St. Justin Martyr have been very valuable to me over the years when it comes to interacting with culture - as he suggested a value in the achievements of Classical culture in his Apology (here ) --and later, influential letters by Basil of Caesarea and Gregory of Nyssa confirmed the commitment to using pre-Christian knowledge, particularly as it touched the material world.

But they did not seem to have a view of endorsing paganism itself wholesale or many other things.
 
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Gxg (G²);62284714 said:
But they did not seem to have a view of endorsing paganism itself wholesale or many other things.

No, they didn't endorse paganism wholesale. They adapted some of the good things from non-Christian sources to be able to better explain the faith to those outside of the Church. I'm not suggesting we just accept things like Harry Potter and magic as something we should teach our kids to emulate. But there is good within the Harry Potter stories that can be adapted to help people express certain aspects of their faith. The problem with so much of modern Christian thinking is so either/or with very little both/and. This has led to too many extremes. There is a balance in everything and we have to find that balance rather than sit on the extreme side of everything.
 
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