Masturbation and other sexual activities

[All4Christ]

One more quote from the above article:

In some Orthodox catechisms one finds lists of the “seven deadly sins.” While there can be no doubt that these sins are deadly—here deadly and “mortal” are synonymous, but “mortal” is not used in the same way as in the Roman Catholic “mortal” sin described above—they are not “worse” in the ultimate sense than sins that are not on the list.
[In the quote from Fr. Harakas’ book, the use of the word “mortal” should not be understood in the Roman Catholic definition of “mortal” outlined above. He clearly defines the term as meaning “unto death,” or “deadly.”]

 

[Wryetui]

So if I ask for forgiveness and mercy to God is it ok? Even if I fall?

 

[rusmeister]

So based on the Orthodox viewpoint- if masturbation is done in the context of leading towards making love between a husband and wife, is it still considered to be wrong? For example, say the spouse is doing that for / to the other, leading up to the ending of making love together. I'm definitely not saying using inappropriate contentography or even doing it individually thinking of the spouse.

Oy, this is a bit of an uncomfortable question for me, but I am curious.

I always thought it was considered wrong in the context of removing sexuality from the loving act of husband and wife together, and removing the final result of intercourse and the resulting ability to procreate. ::blushing here:: I'm so not an open person normally to discussing sexuality...lol.

I think that question is pretty much answered in the links I posted A4C.
The fast answer is that it is generally wrong. It is directed toward the self - self-pleasure, an opposite to the whole concept of communion, for intercourse IS a form and type of communion.

The functions are holistic; to seek to obtain the pleasure outside of that holisticity falls away from the intent and purpose; to direct it toward oneself utterly nullifies that purpose. I think we know that our Fallen-ness pulls us away from the true purposes of things, including appetites, in general.

As one who has myself failed, in many times and ways, some things I only understand in hindsight, and now live with regret, understanding that I could have had a better state, better relationship, etc.

 

[All4Christ]

So if I ask for forgiveness and mercy to God is it ok? Even if I fall?

I believe so. The key is intending to not do it in the future. The key of confession is turning your back to your sin. You may fall, slip, etc. (I fail in my efforts many times), but through confessing it, you pull yourself back up and ask God for the strength to not fall in the future. Just don't confess with the intention of continuing and just getting by through confessing it regularly.

I'm no one to talk though....I have sins I continually struggle with. I am trying though to stop them and with God's help, I believe that some day I will be able to conquer it...with God's help, since I don't have the strength on my own.

 

[All4Christ]

I think that question is pretty much answered in the links I posted A4C. The fast answer is that it is generally wrong. It is directed toward the self - self-pleasure, an opposite to the whole concept of communion, for intercourse IS a form and type of communion. The functions are holistic; to seek to obtain the pleasure outside of that holisticity falls away from the intent and purpose; to direct it toward oneself utterly nullifies that purpose. I think we know that our Fallen-ness pulls us away from the true purposes of things, including appetites, in general. As one who has myself failed, in many times and ways, some things I only understand in hindsight, and now live with regret, understanding that I could have had a better state, better relationship, etc.

I guess the specifics would be best to discuss with one's priest...but I see what you are saying. In the case I was discussing, it was doing that to each other and not to one's self, but I see your point. Thanks for the links.

 

[ArmyMatt]

So if I ask for forgiveness and mercy to God is it ok? Even if I fall?

absolutely

 

[ArmyMatt]

I think it might be one of those Orthodox myths that you need to accept a literal, 6 day creation account because a certain person said so somewhere...

which no one on here does......

 

[jckstraw72]

So if I ask for forgiveness and mercy to God is it ok? Even if I fall?

absolutely! mortal sin doesn't mean if you do it once you're necessarily damned. any sin, no matter how serious, can be repented of. but this is a serious matter -- absolutely focus on continuing repentance! here is what your own Elder Cleopa says about the fate of those with unconfessed mortal sins after death:

It is indeed possible for someone to be redeemed from perdition, but not through the purgatorial fire as the Roman Catholics contend (their offering of expiation presented for the living and the dead notwithstanding). The Lord, as ruler of the heavens, the earth and the infernal regions has the power to remove a soul from Hades, as Scripture testifies: ‘The Lord killeth and maketh alive; He bringeth down to the grave and bringeth up.’

The power and sacrifice of Christ, which is offered to whosoever seeks it, is unlimited and His goodness so great that only He is able to rescind the eternal anguish of man. We know that God asks that we love our fellow man and looks on this love with joy. We we are truly praying for others, there is nothing greater than love. God hears the prayer of the Church very clearly, especially when the prayers of Christians are united with the suppliant voices of angels in the heavens, and that of the Lady Theotokos. …
Between Hades and Paradise there does exist a great chasm indeed, as our Lord has told us. Yet, this chasm does not have the power to impede the mercy of our great God, Who hears our prayers for the reposed. We do not suppose, as do the Roman Catholics, that there exists a purgatorial fire, but we say that only for those who sinned very severely (or mortally) and did not confess their sin is the passage from Hades to Paradise impossible. For those who sinned more lightly this pathway is not definitely closed, given that in the future judgment each one’s place, either in heaven or in hell, will be decided definitively, inasmuch as after this judgment someone whose orientation was Hades can no longer pass over into Paradise. For those who sinned unto death, our prayers are completely futile: “There is a sin unto death. I do not say that he should pray about it” [1 Jn 5:16]. However, the situation for the other souls, for whom we pray, as it is our duty, is not exactly the same. … We do not pray for those who have committed sins against the Holy Spirit, for such sins will not be forgiven, neither in this life, nor in the one to come. Rather, we pray for those who committed lighter sins for which forgiveness–when we pray–is also possible in the other world, inasmuch as we love them to inherit eternal life. (The Truth of Our Faith pp. 127-129)

 

[Wryetui]

But I mean, not necessarily confessing it to my priest. Yes, I also confess it to my priest, but until then, I did postrations and I have read the Psalm 51 as my spiritual father said, so I repented to God and I feel very sorry and I asked for forgiveness, so it means that God can forgive me even if i'm not confessed right now?

 

[All4Christ]

absolutely! mortal sin doesn't mean if you do it once you're necessarily damned. any sin, no matter how serious, can be repented of. but this is a serious matter -- absolutely focus on continuing repentance! here is what your own Elder Cleopa says about the fate of those with unconfessed mortal sins after death:

It really seems like there are multiple different teachings in the Orthodox Church on what mortal sin means and its consequences as compared to other sins.

 

[jckstraw72]

But I mean, not necessarily confessing it to my priest. Yes, I also confess it to my priest, but until then, I did postrations and I have read the Psalm 51 as my spiritual father said, so I repented to God and I feel very sorry and I asked for forgiveness, so it means that God can forgive me even if i'm not confessed right now?

i think as long as you are doing what your priest has instructed you to do until the next time you can see him, you should be fine. it sounds to me like you have a repentant spirit.

 

[rusmeister]

which no one on here does......

 

[Dorothea]

So you were a jarhead, huh? I was a squid, though I served before your time.

Sorry to interrupt, but I couldn't help when reading this. Love those nicknames.

 

[Dorothea]

We don't think it so important exactly what one masturbates to; the whole thing is disordered; as I said, it's wrongful use of the sexual function, and the inappropriate contentography that often initiates it takes what ought to be a holy and intimate act between a married husband and wife, and make the participants and their actions an object of publc titillation.

and great explanation.

 

[Wryetui]

Thank you guys, you gave me some hope I just constantly have the feeling of being the worst sinner of them all even if I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't do drugs and I am merciful and friendly with everyone (even if saying this may sound like i'm proud and that's a sin) but since I came to God and to Orthodoxy again I constantly have the feeling of not being good enough, I go to church 5 times a week, I pray daily but God to me seems like an exigent father which I can never please with anything... And there is this sin, my only "mortal" sin, and I have the feeling of not doing anything good towards God and He sending me to the hell state after death, being in His presence making me suffer for my sins...

 

[Dorothea]

I guess the specifics would be best to discuss with one's priest...but I see what you are saying. In the case I was discussing, it was doing that to each other and not to one's self, but I see your point. Thanks for the links.

Don't mean to be too forward with my private life, but years ago, I asked my priest about this, and his answer was something like, "There will come a time when you (spouse and I) won't need to do that anymore." He didn't condemn us or say it outright, but I got the picture - it's best not to do it. So, that was that!

 

[All4Christ]

Don't mean to be too forward with my private life, but years ago, I asked my priest about this, and his answer was something like, "There will come a time when you (spouse and I) won't need to do that anymore." He didn't condemn us or say it outright, but I got the picture - it's best not to do it. So, that was that!

Thank you! I appreciate your insight from your experience! Good to hear what a priest said about it. This is a completely different stage of our lives now that we are married and we are still navigating our way through it - 6 months officially on Palm Sunday!

 

[ArmyMatt]

i think as long as you are doing what your priest has instructed you to do until the next time you can see him, you should be fine. it sounds to me like you have a repentant spirit.

indeed, you were forgiven on the Cross. repentance and confession help us tap into that forgiveness that God is always offering.

 

[Dorothea]

Thank you! I appreciate your insight from your experience! Good to hear what a priest said about it. This is a completely different stage of our lives now that we are married and we are still navigating our way through it - 6 months officially on Palm Sunday!

Happy six months of marriage!!

 

[RileyG]

It is a grave matter that should be confessed.

I'm curious, does that mean it must be confessed before one would receive the Eucharist? (IN the EO Church)