Mass sexual assault reported at Germany music festival

nightflight

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I said there is a greater correlation between poverty and rape than there is between culture and rape. I did say it was causal. Obviously most poor people don't rape. Neither do most Muslims and most Hispanics,

On Law and Order its the rich white kid in prep school that commits rape. Point is, the people being imported carry cultural baggage, including attitudes and beliefs about women, Jews, Christians and homosexuals. There will be trouble. I don't have to convince you here with words, all I have to do is say, watch.
 
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Sketcher

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I said there is a greater correlation between poverty and rape than there is between culture and rape. I did say it was causal. Obviously most poor people don't rape. Neither do most Muslims and most Hispanics,
Then there are those rich people who rape . . .
 
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smaneck

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And the rape laws in Muslim regions? Europe isn't importing hundreds of thousands of Peruvians.

Nope. There were a lot of Peruvians working in construction in this country until the recession hit. Most went home, partly because there were no jobs, partly because enforcement of immigration laws became stiffer under the Obama administration (believe it or not) and because the increase in the price of precious metals during this period proved to an economic boon for silver-rich countries like Peru and Bolivia which in turn led to a construction boom.

As for rape laws in the Islamic world, it depends on whether rape is treated a violent crime (hiraba) or a sexual crime (zina.) Treating it as zina has led to some grave injustices because according to the shariah you need four eyewitnesses to convict someone of fornication. This was intended to protect women accused of adultery by making it an unprovable crime, but it has been used to protect rapists instead.
The problem, IMO, is not with the shariah but with the men who are interpreting it to the detriment of women. Most Muslims countries, however, do treat it as hiraba, a crime of violence and this leads to much greater justice for women.
 
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smaneck

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On Law and Order its the rich white kid in prep school that commits rape.

He is just the guy more likely to get away with it.

Point is, the people being imported carry cultural baggage, including attitudes and beliefs about women, Jews, Christians and homosexuals. There will be trouble. I don't have to convince you here with words, all I have to do is say, watch.

I don't know that Muslims as a whole are more antagonistic towards gays than Fundamentalist Christians, nor have I ever heard of Muslims attacking gays here or in Europe. It was American Evangelicals, after all, that were egging on Uganda to pass laws against gays that carried the death penalty. Antagonism towards Jews has more to do with the rise of Zionism than anything else, and Arab Christians share that attitude. As for attitudes towards Christians, I see more antagonism going the other direction: Christians towards Muslims. As for women, that is an adjustment nearly all immigrant groups have to make, Muslim or not.
 
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SAM ASRY

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Or maybe the consequences of committing rape in this country are so severe they serve as a deterrent. In countries like Peru, a woman can be gang raped but if even one of the perpetrators offers to marry her, none will be charged. Their rationale for this ludicrous law? Deut: 22:28-29.
Really...It's unbelievable! WOW!!

"Under the old reasoning, a woman raped was a woman tarnished. Marrying the attacker, families felt, was the only way to remove the stain on the woman and her family, especially given that her odds of marrying afterward were small.

"It's all about cultural values, and a woman feeling a husband is the most important thing to have in life, economically as well as socially," said Gina Yanez, a lawyer with Manuela Ramos, Lima's leading women's organization.

Under the law, a victim is not required to accept a rapist's proposal. In most cases, however, even today, "there's a lot of pressure on the girls to marry," particularly if they find they are pregnant as a result of the rape, she said. Abortion in Peru is illegal.

"When a young girl is raped the family wants to cleanse her, and the way to do that is to push her into marriage," said Jorge Avendano, a member of Peru's congressional justice committee. "It isn't really her free choice. She does it because she knows it will make everyone happy."

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1997-03-20/news/9703200141_1_marrying-peruvian-law-rapist
 
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Nithavela

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Really...It's unbelievable! WOW!!

"Under the old reasoning, a woman raped was a woman tarnished. Marrying the attacker, families felt, was the only way to remove the stain on the woman and her family, especially given that her odds of marrying afterward were small.

"It's all about cultural values, and a woman feeling a husband is the most important thing to have in life, economically as well as socially," said Gina Yanez, a lawyer with Manuela Ramos, Lima's leading women's organization.

Under the law, a victim is not required to accept a rapist's proposal. In most cases, however, even today, "there's a lot of pressure on the girls to marry," particularly if they find they are pregnant as a result of the rape, she said. Abortion in Peru is illegal.

"When a young girl is raped the family wants to cleanse her, and the way to do that is to push her into marriage," said Jorge Avendano, a member of Peru's congressional justice committee. "It isn't really her free choice. She does it because she knows it will make everyone happy."

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1997-03-20/news/9703200141_1_marrying-peruvian-law-rapist
Maybe read the rest of the article, talking about some good reasons for the law?

I think the main thing that has to change here are cultural views of rape survivors, not the law.
 
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Nithavela

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Peru is a Christian country, why is there such a law? It is an inhuman act.
I see that you have not done as I suggested. Here, let me quote the relevant passage for you:

But the little-known law is rarely used, said Virgilio Landazuri, a retired president of Lima's superior court and a supporter of the rape law. In his 11 years on the bench, he said, he saw only a handful of cases, most involving young men convicted of statutory rape for impregnating girls under 14.

"I've never in my whole career seen an adult woman that was violently raped marry her attacker," he said, and argues strongly for keeping what he calls a "good and wise law."

Because of the Andean rural tradition of servinacuy, in which very young highland Indians form temporary tryout marriages, thousands of children are born each year from what are technically statutory rapes, he said.

"If you change the law, half of Peru is going to jail," he argued. "I'm upset that congressmen are spending so much time and money trying to change this very insignificant law."

Another thing: Why would you believe that just because of a country being "Christian", they should have good laws?
 
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smaneck

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Maybe read the rest of the article, talking about some good reasons for the law?

I think the main thing that has to change here are cultural views of rape survivors, not the law.

Seriously? None of the reasons mentioned struck me as good! You must be male to not understand what it means to have to marry your rapist!
 
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smaneck

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I see that you have not done as I suggested. Here, let me quote the relevant passage for you:

I didn't see that quote when I went to the website, but this law had nothing to do with respecting the customs of indigenous people. It is biblical, based on Deut. 22 as I indicated before, which places family honor above women's sentiments.
 
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TheBear

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Wait a minute! It wasn't refugees who are suspected in these rapes, it was Pakistanis. Pakistanis are not refugees.

From the article -
"The three men who have been arrested are asylum seekers from Pakistan."
 
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Oafman

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From the article -
"The three men who have been arrested are asylum seekers from Pakistan."
There's a slight difference between refugees and asylum seekers.

If their request for asylum is going to be accepted (or for them to even make it in the first place), I think they would either have to be Christian, Shia Muslim, or gay. These are the groups who are being persecuted in Pakistan, and if you're not from one of those communities, I struggle to see how you might hope to make an asylum claim.

If we assume the arrested men are guilty, then we can probably assume they're not gay. Which means they are almost certainly either Christian or Shia.
 
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TheBear

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There's a slight difference between refugees and asylum seekers.

If their request for asylum is going to be accepted (or for them to even make it in the first place), I think they would either have to be Christian, Shia Muslim, or gay. These are the groups who are being persecuted in Pakistan, and if you're not from one of those communities, I struggle to see how you might hope to make an asylum claim.

If we assume the arrested men are guilty, then we can probably assume they're not gay. Which means they are almost certainly either Christian or Shia.

Amazing.....
 
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Oafman

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Indeed. Your ability to split hairs and compartmentalize in order to justify a particular view, is astounding.
Could you be more explicit please. Exactly what particular view do you think I'm seeking to justify?
 
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Oafman

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Point is, the people being imported carry cultural baggage, including attitudes and beliefs about women, Jews, Christians and homosexuals. There will be trouble.
Some of the people being 'imported' carry such baggage. This is undeniable. Some of the cultures they come from have a very different attitude towards these minority groups than we do in the liberal West.

But is that a good reason to deny help to all of the others, fleeing war, torture, murder, famine etc etc? Is it even a good reason to deny help to those who harbour serious prejudices against these minorities but do not act on them?

My view on people who might act on these prejudices, is they must either refrain from doing so, or face prison and possible deportation.
 
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