Joel Osteen: My Man

[GodsMan82]

I'm going to start listening to Charles Stanley from now on since he seems to be good. And I'll stay away from Joel from now on, since he goes against everything the bible teaches. Is that satisfactory to you all?

 

[New Legacy]

It seems like Joel Osteen is a child of the devil to some of you because he teaches what has been deemed just for him, prosperity gospel. I don't know anymore. You guys are really making me think whether or not I should stick watching his broadcasts.

Here is what is appealing- he looks young, healthy, positive, speaks positively, he belongs to a group that has an absence of a theology of suffering.

I once listened to a 'minister' talk about his perfect life before going on to his talk (it was a minister's conference). I asked someone who was more familiar with that side of Christianity - is this guy a total narcissist? I found out that for many Christians, it is all about appearances. The better your life is, the more God has blessed you, the more righteous you must be living, the more credible what your saying is.

To me, this is all a fairytale. Life can be easy for bad people and hard for good people. Jesus was born into poverty. The OT focuses heavily on poverty. The problem with Joel's approach is that he has nothing to offer people who are suffering. Can you imagine if he was like other pastors that visited the sick, or went to prisons? What would he tell a person that was dying, or the family of a dying child? You just go to believe and everything is going to be okay, that blessings are on the way? Now, let me tell you a story about my uncle bob?

It is not that Joel or people like him are evil. I cannot judge his heart. He would only be doing evil if he knew what he was teaching was wrong and only for his benefit. More than likely, he believes what he is teaching - but that does not make it right.

Christ told us that we would be persecuted and hated, not pampered and blessed. Most Christians have experienced nothing but a life of oppression and suffering. Many still do. That suffering is what made them more faithful, better people. The lack of blessing was the blessing.

Should I love God because he gives me everything I want? What if we love God for who He is - and accept suffering because of it. Isn't that a more authentic love?

 

[seeingeyes]

It seems like Joel Osteen is a child of the devil to some of you because he teaches what has been deemed just for him, prosperity gospel. I don't know anymore. You guys are really making me think whether or not I should stick watching his broadcasts.

You should certainly examine what you believe. That's always a good thing. (whether others end up agreeing with you or not!) You will know a tree by its fruits, brother.

I believe that there is an audience for folks like Mr. Osteen, not because people want "happy fluff" (as some say), but because so many Christians are just so freakin' miserable. But misery loves company...

I know that Joyce Meyer (who is similar, from what I understand) has been very helpful to a friend of mine who battles with anxiety stemming from a horrendous childhood. She has been "praying on it" for years and years, but it took a heads up (from a woman pastor no less! ...she is very conservative) to encourage her to examine her own habits and see how to work on her troubles.

Personally, I have theological differences with a lot of people. (Most people, really ), but Jesus gave us a criteria by which to know who is following him: "By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

So look for the fruit, it's the most important part!

God bless

 

[GodsMan82]

I don't believe the "prosperity gospel." I heard the beginning of Stanley's sermon for today and he said something about "The Lord is my Shepard." And that people that are Christians and believe believe Jesus is their Shepard. Anyway, I'm gone from Joel Osteen after much thinking. Charles Stanley's my preacher now. And of course Jesus Christ is my main preacher.

 

[FerventDisciple]

I hear him a lot as I have family members who listen to him. I can honestly say I have never heard him preach the gospel. It seems to be a purely American cultural message. You can't take his message to Africa, it simply wouldn't work.

I've also noted that he uses very little scripture is his sermons and when he does reference a verse it seems like he's just incorporating it into the sermon rather than the sermon being based on the word.

 

[BryanW92]

Joel is my church cause he has a live broadcast @8:30AM. I know it's good to have a real church to fellowship with. But, please don't judge that I don't go to church.

I can't judge you. I don't have the power or authority to do so. I can, however, edify or admonish. The Holy Spirit within YOU can convict you. But, only God can judge you.

Most people do not use the word "judge" correctly today. They believe that any correction or criticism is "judgement". They're wrong.

But, it isn't just good to have a real church to fellowship with. It is essential. The people you fellowship with ARE the church. The preacher is not the church. The building is not the church. The website or TV is not the church.

 

[BryanW92]

Why would the cross be offensive?

Because it forces each of us to admit our failure before it can do anything to help us. The cross is meaningless to anyone who hasn't come to understand that they are a sinner, and nothing but trash to God (i.e. dirty rags, chaff, goats, etc). The cross does not wash you clean by giving you a "Get Out Of Hell Free" card. We don't like to hear that we're helpless, so the cross offends. We like to hear that we're basically good and we can dig ourselves out of the hole that we've dug ourselves into (hint: when you're in a hole that you can't climb out of, stop digging!). So, when you preach about the cross and the power of the cross, you offend because people say, "Don't be judging me" and "I'm not that bad."

Joel Osteen does not even preach about the cross, except to portray it as a fountain of wealth and happiness. It is neither.

Go on YouTube and watch some old Billy Graham sermons. They're all good, and even though they are 30-50 years old, they are as relevant today as they were then. In many of them, it is amazing that he is preaching about problems in America and the world that exist today.

 

[GodsMan82]

I don't know why I started this thread, but as I've said, I'm through with Joel. I'm onto someone who teaches the gospel. Charles Stanley. He sounds good from what I've heard. I'm coming to the realization that Joel can be good for people that want positivity in their life. But Stanley is good for everyone. Not just the positive.

 

[RBPerry]

I don't know why I started this thread,

I wonder if you are sensing something lacking in your Christian walk. I love Charles Stanley, and his preaching is good in my opinion. However you need a church home, a body of believers you can interact with. Many churches have small groups that meet for Bible studies and you can gain so much by being involved in those groups.

Why is it that you don't want to be involved in a local church?

 

[GodsMan82]

Why is it that you don't want to be involved in a local church?

I really don't know. I've been to church before, but it's just not for me. I know that's a stupid answer, but that's the way it goes. I know you're not judging me about not going.

 

[BryanW92]

I really don't know. I've been to church before, but it's just not for me. I know that's a stupid answer, but that's the way it goes. I know you're not judging me about not going.

What part isn't for you? The other people? The church is people. No one is "judging" you (please read post #46 to understand that) but we are telling you that being a Christian without a church is not only wrong, but it is dangerous for your soul.

Those other people act as trainers, they've got your back when you need it, and they provide you with easy and safe people to practice your Christian love on. Without the church, you can fall into the trap that many "internet churched" people fall into: that you have discovered secret knowledge that is really just your own pride speaking.

Being intimately involved with the lives of new people is hard for many of us. I was 45 when I started going to a church. One of my rules before I started was, "I'm not going to get involved with any groups. I'm just there for the sermons and then I'm gone." I didn't want to get hugged or shake too many hands. You get over that and then you begin to enjoy the fellowship. Then, you realize that those people are all Christ and you can touch them and talk to them.

I've taken communion to some of our shut-ins who can't attend church anymore. You can barely get your hands free from theirs to serve the elements because the human contact with their church is what they really want and when you show up with the communion kit, you are their whole church. They don't want to see a video of the sermon or hear the choir. Those people teach you what church really is.

 

[RBPerry]

I really don't know. I've been to church before, but it's just not for me. I know that's a stupid answer, but that's the way it goes. I know you're not judging me about not going.

That is not a stupid answer, it is how you feel. What I have found with someone new to the church is it takes time to get to know people, and for some that can be rather difficult, and leave one feeling like an outsider. Many churches fail to followup and connect with people visiting their churches. It takes time to get to know the leadership of the church for many reasons that I won't go into now.

We are not meant to stand alone in this world, and the body of Christ needs to be united . Since you are a Christian you are part of the body of Christ, you really do need to get connected or eventually you will get led astray.

 

[GodsMan82]

I am not going to go to church at this time. I'm part of His church, and I'm happy for now. And this was a discussion about Joel Osteen, not church. I use now Charles Stanley and I'm happy with that for now. Anyway...

 

[BryanW92]

I am not going to go to church at this time. I'm part of His church, and I'm happy for now. And this was a discussion about Joel Osteen, not church. I use now Charles Stanley and I'm happy with that for now. Anyway...

His church is "wherever two or three are gathered in my name." The church is not "a beautiful sunset" or found in a mountain stream or in any of God's works of creation. Those existed before the church. It is not peace and contentment or prayerful meditation. The church is a specific thing. It is derived from the word ekklesia, which is the name of "an assembly of citizens".

You may be happy with your assembly of One, but remember that Jesus did not die on the cross for your (or my or anyone else's) happiness.

 

[Norah63]

And be ye kind one to another, speaking words of faith and love.
Some christians may be house bound for varius reasons, for a time.
We cannot know how another is finding their worship in spirit and in truth.
As many are getting fed from the television preaching, I rejoyce in the gospel being preached!
Jesus came that we might have life, and that more fully; that includes happiness. Imo.

 

[achristian2]

I've taken communion to some of our shut-ins who can't attend church anymore. You can barely get your hands free from theirs to serve the elements because the human contact with their church is what they really want and when you show up with the communion kit, you are their whole church. They don't want to see a video of the sermon or hear the choir. Those people teach you what church really is.

Beautiful and so true.

 

[achristian2]

Godsman82,

I want to share with you something in the hopes that it will help you. Both from scriptures and my own experience.

After I was saved, there was a period of a few years that I didn't go to church at all. After all, one could see all the good sermons on youtube etc (BTW, Charles Stanley is good and you will be safe with him . I see his sermons too in addition to attending church).

But the thing is while we may feel comfortable with that, its not what God really wants. The devil loves to isolate us so that its easier for him to attack us and when we fall, there is no Christian brother/sister to help us back up or when we start to stray from God, there is no Christian brother to help warn us or remind us not to do so. I'm going to back this up with scriptures.

Proverbs 18:1
Whoever isolates himself seeks his own desire; he breaks out against all sound judgment.

Ecclesiastes 4:9-10
Two are better than one, because they have a good return for their labor. If either of them falls down, one can help the other up. But pity anyone who falls and has no one to help them up.

Imagine a rope. If there's only 1 strand, its easy to break it. Now intertwine 2 strands together--it becomes harder to break. What about 3 strands together--even harder. And that's 1 reason why its so important to fellowship, get involve with small groups and so on. When we drift, the small groups become our anchor and can check with you and help you and keep you accountable.

Yeah, I understand we may not get along with everyone and we may feel more comfortable alone and I can't say I like to be accountable to others--yeah, my flesh is speaking here on the accountability part (but I know God would want that for us), but like porcupines/hedgehodges who hurt each other with their prickly quills, they have to huddle together in the cold for them to survive (the combined body heat of many porcupines together allow them to survive), and so they learn to accept each other. And thus, when we fellowship, be in small groups, there will be people that we don't quite get along with, but by dying to ourselves and learning to get along with others in order to still be able to fellowship, God conform us to the image of Christ (Romans 8:29) and thus get us to exhibit the fruit of the spirit (Galatians 5:22). And even in the midst of the un-comfortableness, these people will help you when you are in trouble (yeah, there will be some that will hurt you also).

As I said I didn't go to church for a few years and started 'straying' from God because of all the difficulties that the devil threw at me When I finally decided to come back to God, I went into very bad spiritual warfare and the devil would and still does attack me with extreme loneliness. But God used the terrible spiritual loneliness to make me go back to church pronto. Despite all the abuses that I had encountered from people, yet God felt it important that I attend church then even though I had difficulty walking at that time. [Isaiah 54:16, 17--Behold, I Myself have created the smith who blows the fire of coals. And brings out a weapon for its work; And I have created the destroyer to ruin. “No weapon that is formed against you will prosper...]

I do not know whether you are ready to join a church or not or the real reason why you are not attending one. But I just want you to at least know why its good to attend church. Do pray to God for His guidance and will.

 

[BryanW92]

And be ye kind one to another, speaking words of faith and love.
Some christians may be house bound for varius reasons, for a time.
We cannot know how another is finding their worship in spirit and in truth.
As many are getting fed from the television preaching, I rejoyce in the gospel being preached!
Jesus came that we might have life, and that more fully; that includes happiness. Imo.

Oh, I didn't see the part where Godsman82 said that he's home-bound. Sorry about that. The churching he gets from the TV and internet is better than nothing.

But, I take issue with your admonition about speaking words of faith and love. Allowing a brother or sister to wallow in sin or in error because that is what makes them happy is not "speaking words of faith and love". It is the exact opposite. It is a sweet-tasting poison. It is the very thing that is destroying the church in western civilization. We worry more about people's earthly feelings than their eternal salvation and sanctification.

 

[achristian2]

Oh, I didn't see the part where Godsman82 said that he's home-bound. Sorry about that. The churching he gets from the TV and internet is better than nothing.

But, I take issue with your admonition about speaking words of faith and love. Allowing a brother or sister to wallow in sin or in error because that is what makes them happy is not "speaking words of faith and love". It is the exact opposite. It is a sweet-tasting poison. It is the very thing that is destroying the church in western civilization. We worry more about people's earthly feelings than their eternal salvation and sanctification.

I don't think he's housebound? I think Norah was just giving various possible reasons on why someone in general do not attend church.

 

[GodsMan82]

Guys, I'm low vision. I CAN get out, but choose not to. This is a problem I need to figure out myself.