it is ok to lie when...

[JimB]

When people ask me to hide the truth (just for fun) they put me in the awkward position of having to violate my conscience for their entertainment. I just tell them to keep it a secret from me, too. And if I know of a surprise party for you and you ask me if it is so I will have to say, “How about them Astros.” And change the subject.

But I will not tell a lie just for people’s fun.

Sorry.

~ Hugh D’Mann

Contentment is not found in having what you want, but in wanting what you have​

But can you lie to incriminate innocent people and if you do not like what they believe? You know lying is not justified because you think you have some grand calling to rid the world of all who disagree with you. Lying is still lying. God hates liars, and all liars will be cast into the lake of fire. Lying is bad Jim. It is one of the big 10 "thou shalt not bear false witness...".
Jesus said people lie because they are the children of the devil and they are just doing what their father does. That is not a good crowd to be with.
Every witch hunt, persecution, and inquisition used this same wicked tool to vilify and convict the innocent. Another bad crowd to be associated with. It was people like this who lied against Jesus and helped murder him. That is the worst crowd to be with.
The Holy Spirit hates lies so much that He kills people for doing it.... even Christians.
Liars need to repent and be cleansed of this unrighteousness.

Sheesh, Dids, didn’t I just say as much? Did you misread something?

On the other hand, are you making some sort of accusation—you know, “bearing false witness” in a public forum?

~Justin Thyme

Contentment is not found in having what you want, but in wanting what you have​

 

[JimB]

Yes, I agree, his nature will not change, but that doesn't mean he doesn't ever make changes.

*****

Thank you. This is pretty enlightening to me. God’s nature never changes, He is who He is in every generation, but His ways of dealing with people change depending on the culture in which they live. That makes sense. God, as church growth experts say, “contextualizes”.

~Justin Thyme

Contentment is not found in having what you want, but in wanting what you have​

 

[nephilimiyr]

Thank you. This is pretty enlightening to me. God’s nature never changes, He is who He is in every generation, but His ways of dealing with people change depending on the culture in which they live. That makes sense. God, as church growth experts say, “contextualizes”.

~Justin Thyme

Contentment is not found in having what you want, but in wanting what you have​

And if people take notice, the wiles of the devil and his minions also changes with the cultures and generations. "Contextualize" is a great word to use to discribe what God and the devil do. God is currently speaking to the younger generation of today in ways different from my generation, and He spoke to my generation in ways He didn't speak to your generation.

 

[NaLuvena]

He does not deal with sin though. God dealt with sin 2000 years ago, the job was done, finished. God no longer sends angels out to slaughter hundreds of thousands. God no longer is counting mens sins against them, in the OT He did count mens sins against them but in the NT all of that changed.

True.

God dealt with sin 2000 years ago. This was a once and for all time sacrifice that covered everyone's sins.

You must remember too, that this also included all sin from the beginning, from Adam and Eve. For all sin, there is only one sacrifice, that covers it, Jesus. This applies whether you lived in the OT or the NT.

Hebrews 10

11Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God.

Even in OT times, God revealed that the sacrifices they were making then was not sufficient.

David realized this when he wrote the 51st psalm. If you read it, you'd think he was talking about us today. He asks God not to remove His Spirit from him, he says that God does not delight in our sacrifices but He requires a broken spirit, and a contrite heart.

Again, his nature hasn't changed, He's still a holy God, merciful and longsuffering. Yet He no longer counts mens sins against them.

Not true.

If anyone does not accept Jesus, their sins will be counted against them. This has always been the way from the beginning. The sins of those who have accepted Christ as their Savior will not be counted against them, because they have the sacrifice for it, in Christ.

For those who do not accept Christ, they will have to pay the penalty for their sins. They will die. There is a death required for our sins, we can either accept the death of Christ as the payment of our sins, or die ourselves, if we reject Christ.

Nope, sorry.

Hmmm, by saying that you are also saying that therefore there is no war even with Satan and his angles and demons. After all, if all God has to say is No and they will stop their sinning and rebellion then why doesn't God just say no to them? Seems to me that would be the way to end the war. Or are you now saying that God enjoys keeping this war going because He likes it when they sin? Seems to me you have painted youself in a corner now.

Whoa neph...

Back up there.....

Firstly, it's an assumption that the angel that lied is an evil one. The Bible is silent on whether the spirit was part of Satan's army or not. We don't know what sort of spirit it was, It could have been one of God's own. The Bible says that when this discussions was taking place in Heaven, God was surrounded by the Host of Heaven, which I believe (but still have to find definite proof for, so I qualify this by putting this in brackets) are the angels who are still on God's side.

All we know is what it planned to do, and God approving of it's suggestion.

1 Kings 22:22

" 'By what means?' the LORD asked.
" 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said.
" 'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD. 'Go and do it.'

There is still a war going on with Satan, and his angels, and his human followers. God does not like it when anyone sins. This war is going on, because God allows it, but it is not because He enjoys it, He has already ordained the outcome, and that is victory for God.

 

[NaLuvena]

Yes, I agree, his nature will not change, but that doesn't mean he doesn't ever make changes.

How do you explain the story of Jonah and the city of Ninevah? Jonah was to go to the city and tell them that God was going to destroy the city because of their sins. By the way, God doesn't do that anymore, just another one of those things he changed in the way he interacts with people.

But the people repented from their sins and what did God do? The story says that God repented and told Jonah to tell them that He will not destroy the city because of their repentence. How can a God that never changes anything repent?

Sorry, if I knew where the story was I would quote it for you.

Maybe the Book of Jonah would be a good place to start?

You're still mistaken, Neph.

It's always been in God's nature to repent, to have compassion. This did not develop 2000 years ago, it was always there.

When God flooded the earth, He promised never to do it again, and placed His rainbow in the sky as evidence of His promise.

God has always been willing to relent, if we repent, because Mercy has always been part of His nature. God has always been like this. . God is Unchanging, the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.