I wonder how they arranged the leash part in the video.. Eg. Did he put a leash around his own neck and say I'm a dog?
Agtg,This stuff was going on and various people were regularly manifesting like different animals. John Wimber said that they weren't sure what was of God and what wasn't, so he suggested they should monitor the long term effects of such manifestations.
This is why Calvary Chapel and John Wimber (Vineyard founder) parted ways. John Wimber before he started Vineyard churches was part of Calvary Chapel.This stuff was going on and various people were regularly manifesting like different animals. John Wimber said that they weren't sure what was of God and what wasn't, so he suggested they should monitor the long term effects of such manifestations.
As Hank Hannagraaf put it, this basically turned these churches into a spiritual lab of sorts and the congregants were the guinea pigs.
We can see the long term fruits of this, though, with the growth of unbiblical, plainly heretical ministries such as Bethel and Ihop (both Mike Bickle and Bill Johnson attended the Toronto Blessing).
Discernment is key. The entire creation of God speaks to a a God of order, IMHOAgtg,
It's disconcerting. If they can't decide if walking a man on a leash is a supernatural healthy blessing from God himself, how can they decide more long term things and results? How can we successfully persuade them that babbling is not a supernatural miracle but self hypnosis like what happens at stage performances, or self induced mental deviation?
If the dog man bites another person while barking the next day at the grocery store, they could say that the barking for The Master was good on day 1, but on day 2 he abused this holy gift.
This is why Calvary Chapel and John Wimber (Vineyard founder) parted ways. John Wimber before he started Vineyard churches was part of Calvary Chapel.
The clip of the man on the leash I think was from the Toronto blessing, a central event in the charismatic movement.So here's a question, actually 2.
How often do these animalistic manifestations, or what ever they are, occur, and when were the examples you are talking about?
What do you think of the video of the dog and people walking people and barking manifestations? Do you think they are of the Holy Spirit? Maybe it's time for you to say what you think.So here's a question, actually 2.
How often do these animalistic manifestations, or what ever they are, occur, and when were the examples you are talking about?
What is desired end result of the thread?
A central event? Really? The charismatic movement was happening well before that, and is going along without it. How long ago was it?The clip of the man on the leash I think was from the Toronto blessing, a central event in the charismatic movement.
Well if you want to go back to the start of Pentecostalist mobdernity, it started at Topeka around 1900.A central event? Really? The charismatic movement was happening well before that, and is going along without it. How long ago was it?
Even though the Pentecostal and Charismatic Movements have always had their oddball fringe element, this would be no different to the various other denominations including the various EO denominations as well. During the period of the Charismatic Renewal of the 1960s and 70's, it was uncommon to come across "oddball" behaviour, which probably reflected the legacy of those from within the Pentecostal movement and with the more staid expectations of those from within the historical denominations who then embraced the Renewal.The clip of the man on the leash I think was from the Toronto blessing, a central event in the charismatic movement.
What would you see as accepted in the EO church that is as oddball as holy barking, holy laughter, slain in spirit? The closes I can think of is that there was a fring following around a charismatic woman named IIRC Ryder who gave some EO'S slain in the spirit and had weird channelings, but the church officially rejected her movement.Even though the Pentecostal and Charismatic Movements have always had their oddball fringe element, this would be no different to the various other denominations including the various EO denominations as well.
That's a fair question. We could point to the veneration of icons and monks living in caves for years etc. We certainly come across a lot of odd behaviour by individual Roman Catholics, and with those who align themselves with "Catholic style" orders who are involved in behaviour which goes from being merely oddball to that of outright wickedness. A good example of this is with the Australian "quasi-Roman Catholic" known as the "little pebble" a few years back. Then we have another Australian (sadly!) by the name of Mel Gibson who also ran another "quasi-Roman Catholic" style order.What would you see as accepted in the EO church that is as oddball as holy barking, holy laughter, slain in spirit? The closes I can think of is that there was a fring following around a charismatic woman named IIRC Ryder who gave some EO'S slain in the spirit and had weird channelings, but the church officially rejected her movement.
The human bone thing goes back to the Bible when Elisha bones resurrected someone. And preserving saints objects for prayer and healing goes back to Paul's clothes in Acts 19. But I know that since the 16th century western societys more scientific mentality doesn't understand this well.PS. I failed to mention the verneration (worship) of pieces of human anatomy such as bones and human hair by the EO denominations, which we could probably put near the top of the list of thoroughly odd behaviour.
As much as we know that Elisha stood out amongst the crowd so to speak, the account in 2 Kings 13:21 is certainly unusual but if we were to recognise this event was intended to be the norm or that it was a regularly repeatable occurrence then we would have expected that the Jews would have taken his bones and distributed them within the Temple and the various synagogues throughout Israel, but of course they did not.The human bone thing goes back to the Bible when Elisha bones resurrected someone. And preserving saints objects for prayer and healing goes back to Paul's clothes in Acts 19. But I know that since the 16th century western societys more scientific mentality doesn't understand this well.
By contrast, compulsive dog barking and probably forced laughter is not mentioned in the Bible.
Having holy peoples bones around like the early Christians did in the catacombs is kind of odd by modern western secular and protestant standards, but it's still not the same kind of mental state we see in the charismatic videos where they look hypnotized and their heads shake and bodies shake with weird laughter or barking and otherwise seeming possessed to some mainstream christians.As much as we know that Elisha stood out amongst the crowd so to speak, the account in 2 Kings 13:21 is certainly unusual but if we were to recognise this event was intended to be the norm or that it was a regularly repeatable occurrence then we would have expected that the Jews would have taken his bones and distributed them within the Temple and the various synagogues throughout Israel, but of course they did not.
Even though Pentecostals along with the Evangelicals and Reformed would deem this type of activity to be aligned with necromancy or even the occult, I need to say that there have been a number of word-of-faith and other celebrity practitioners who have been involved with grave-soaking, where they will go to the grave of some well-known deceased celebrity ministry and lay on the grave so that they can supposedly soak up what they believe to be some remaining “anointing” that is still in their bodies. This is far worse than dog barking, where if they do not repent after being counselled about their inappropriate behaviour then we should be excommunicating anyone who continues to undertake this type of activity.
When it comes to Rome, from my understanding, I gather that they frown on this type of activity but when it comes to Third World regions, they seem to turn a blind eye to the practice of worshipping bones as this type of practice is something that their members are often familiar with from within the various demonic religions that are supposed to have come out of.
That was always John Wimber's mo. He taught at Fuller with Peter Wagner to test his theory on them. They practiced casting out demons and other spiritual things on each other, the students.This stuff was going on and various people were regularly manifesting like different animals. John Wimber said that they weren't sure what was of God and what wasn't, so he suggested they should monitor the long term effects of such manifestations.
As Hank Hannagraaf put it, this basically turned these churches into a spiritual lab of sorts and the congregants were the guinea pigs.
We can see the long term fruits of this, though, with the growth of unbiblical, plainly heretical ministries such as Bethel and Ihop (both Mike Bickle and Bill Johnson attended the Toronto Blessing).
That was always John Wimber's mo. He taught at Fuller with Peter Wagner to test his theory on them. They practiced casting out demons and other spiritual things on each other, the students.