Is there a Kundalini spirit in the charismatic church?

AGTG

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I wonder how they arranged the leash part in the video.. Eg. Did he put a leash around his own neck and say I'm a dog?

This stuff was going on and various people were regularly manifesting like different animals. John Wimber said that they weren't sure what was of God and what wasn't, so he suggested they should monitor the long term effects of such manifestations.

As Hank Hannagraaf put it, this basically turned these churches into a spiritual lab of sorts and the congregants were the guinea pigs.

We can see the long term fruits of this, though, with the growth of unbiblical, plainly heretical ministries such as Bethel and Ihop (both Mike Bickle and Bill Johnson attended the Toronto Blessing).
 
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rakovsky

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This stuff was going on and various people were regularly manifesting like different animals. John Wimber said that they weren't sure what was of God and what wasn't, so he suggested they should monitor the long term effects of such manifestations.
Agtg,
It's disconcerting. If they can't decide if walking a man on a leash is a supernatural healthy blessing from God himself, how can they decide more long term things and results? How can we successfully persuade them that babbling is not a supernatural miracle but self hypnosis like what happens at stage performances, or self induced mental deviation?

If the dog man bites another person while barking the next day at the grocery store, they could say that the barking for The Master was good on day 1, but on day 2 he abused this holy gift.
 
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ToBeLoved

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This stuff was going on and various people were regularly manifesting like different animals. John Wimber said that they weren't sure what was of God and what wasn't, so he suggested they should monitor the long term effects of such manifestations.

As Hank Hannagraaf put it, this basically turned these churches into a spiritual lab of sorts and the congregants were the guinea pigs.

We can see the long term fruits of this, though, with the growth of unbiblical, plainly heretical ministries such as Bethel and Ihop (both Mike Bickle and Bill Johnson attended the Toronto Blessing).
This is why Calvary Chapel and John Wimber (Vineyard founder) parted ways. John Wimber before he started Vineyard churches was part of Calvary Chapel.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Agtg,
It's disconcerting. If they can't decide if walking a man on a leash is a supernatural healthy blessing from God himself, how can they decide more long term things and results? How can we successfully persuade them that babbling is not a supernatural miracle but self hypnosis like what happens at stage performances, or self induced mental deviation?

If the dog man bites another person while barking the next day at the grocery store, they could say that the barking for The Master was good on day 1, but on day 2 he abused this holy gift.
Discernment is key. The entire creation of God speaks to a a God of order, IMHO
 
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rakovsky

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So here's a question, actually 2.

How often do these animalistic manifestations, or what ever they are, occur, and when were the examples you are talking about?
The clip of the man on the leash I think was from the Toronto blessing, a central event in the charismatic movement.
 
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ToBeLoved

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So here's a question, actually 2.

How often do these animalistic manifestations, or what ever they are, occur, and when were the examples you are talking about?

What is desired end result of the thread?
What do you think of the video of the dog and people walking people and barking manifestations? Do you think they are of the Holy Spirit? Maybe it's time for you to say what you think.
 
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jiminpa

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The clip of the man on the leash I think was from the Toronto blessing, a central event in the charismatic movement.
A central event? Really? The charismatic movement was happening well before that, and is going along without it. How long ago was it?
 
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rakovsky

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A central event? Really? The charismatic movement was happening well before that, and is going along without it. How long ago was it?
Well if you want to go back to the start of Pentecostalist mobdernity, it started at Topeka around 1900.
At that time they figured tongues were real languages and that they could mieaculously preach in Chinese and write it. Then they found out they couldnt.
 
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Biblicist

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The clip of the man on the leash I think was from the Toronto blessing, a central event in the charismatic movement.
Even though the Pentecostal and Charismatic Movements have always had their oddball fringe element, this would be no different to the various other denominations including the various EO denominations as well. During the period of the Charismatic Renewal of the 1960s and 70's, it was uncommon to come across "oddball" behaviour, which probably reflected the legacy of those from within the Pentecostal movement and with the more staid expectations of those from within the historical denominations who then embraced the Renewal.

As I was one of those who was blessed by being able to experience part of the incredible worldwide Charismatic Renewal from 1974 onwards, this has allowed me to use my experiences within the Renewal as a sort of gauge whereby I can assess the latter so-called "renewals".

What we've seen over the past few decades is that the term charismatic is often being applied to congregations that have had no prior historical legacy, where oddball behaviour is all that many of these people know. As for those eccentric individuals who are prepared to debase themselves by being walked around on a lead, these puppies should probably seek out some deliverance or at least obtain the services of those who can address their unstable emotional state; but I suspect that many such individuals will continue to to seek out the absurd where they are essentially unteachable where their carnal senses will tend to overide the leading of the Holy Spirit.
 
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rakovsky

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Even though the Pentecostal and Charismatic Movements have always had their oddball fringe element, this would be no different to the various other denominations including the various EO denominations as well.
What would you see as accepted in the EO church that is as oddball as holy barking, holy laughter, slain in spirit? The closes I can think of is that there was a fring following around a charismatic woman named IIRC Ryder who gave some EO'S slain in the spirit and had weird channelings, but the church officially rejected her movement.
 
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Biblicist

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What would you see as accepted in the EO church that is as oddball as holy barking, holy laughter, slain in spirit? The closes I can think of is that there was a fring following around a charismatic woman named IIRC Ryder who gave some EO'S slain in the spirit and had weird channelings, but the church officially rejected her movement.
That's a fair question. We could point to the veneration of icons and monks living in caves for years etc. We certainly come across a lot of odd behaviour by individual Roman Catholics, and with those who align themselves with "Catholic style" orders who are involved in behaviour which goes from being merely oddball to that of outright wickedness. A good example of this is with the Australian "quasi-Roman Catholic" known as the "little pebble" a few years back. Then we have another Australian (sadly!) by the name of Mel Gibson who also ran another "quasi-Roman Catholic" style order.

As I've mentioned before, as an Australian, when we encouter EO members, they tend to reflect more of a cultural religious affiliation so we rarely come across them within Christian conferences, this means that the various EO issues tend to remain off the radar and other than when they throw a cross into the sea (which is odd in itself), our various media organisations rarely if ever refer to the EO denominations here in Australia.

You would be well aware that when most Pentecostals, Evangelicals and Reformed believers refer to the church of the Dark Ages, it will usually be with reference to Rome as most Western Christians can more easily relate to their history than we can with the various EO denominations - where my own knowledge does not go much past the schism of 1054.

PS. I failed to mention the verneration (worship) of pieces of human anatomy such as bones and human hair by the EO denominations, which we could probably put near the top of the list of thoroughly odd behaviour.
 
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rakovsky

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PS. I failed to mention the verneration (worship) of pieces of human anatomy such as bones and human hair by the EO denominations, which we could probably put near the top of the list of thoroughly odd behaviour.
The human bone thing goes back to the Bible when Elisha bones resurrected someone. And preserving saints objects for prayer and healing goes back to Paul's clothes in Acts 19. But I know that since the 16th century western societys more scientific mentality doesn't understand this well.

By contrast, compulsive dog barking and probably forced laughter is not mentioned in the Bible.
 
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The human bone thing goes back to the Bible when Elisha bones resurrected someone. And preserving saints objects for prayer and healing goes back to Paul's clothes in Acts 19. But I know that since the 16th century western societys more scientific mentality doesn't understand this well.

By contrast, compulsive dog barking and probably forced laughter is not mentioned in the Bible.
As much as we know that Elisha stood out amongst the crowd so to speak, the account in 2 Kings 13:21 is certainly unusual but if we were to recognise this event was intended to be the norm or that it was a regularly repeatable occurrence then we would have expected that the Jews would have taken his bones and distributed them within the Temple and the various synagogues throughout Israel, but of course they did not.

Even though Pentecostals along with the Evangelicals and Reformed would deem this type of activity to be aligned with necromancy or even the occult, I need to say that there have been a number of word-of-faith and other celebrity practitioners who have been involved with grave-soaking, where they will go to the grave of some well-known deceased celebrity ministry and lay on the grave so that they can supposedly soak up what they believe to be some remaining “anointing” that is still in their bodies. This is far worse than dog barking, where if they do not repent after being counselled about their inappropriate behaviour then we should be excommunicating anyone who continues to undertake this type of activity.

When it comes to Rome, from my understanding, I gather that they frown on this type of activity but when it comes to Third World regions, they seem to turn a blind eye to the practice of worshipping bones as this type of practice is something that their members are often familiar with from within the various demonic religions that are supposed to have come out of.
 
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rakovsky

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As much as we know that Elisha stood out amongst the crowd so to speak, the account in 2 Kings 13:21 is certainly unusual but if we were to recognise this event was intended to be the norm or that it was a regularly repeatable occurrence then we would have expected that the Jews would have taken his bones and distributed them within the Temple and the various synagogues throughout Israel, but of course they did not.

Even though Pentecostals along with the Evangelicals and Reformed would deem this type of activity to be aligned with necromancy or even the occult, I need to say that there have been a number of word-of-faith and other celebrity practitioners who have been involved with grave-soaking, where they will go to the grave of some well-known deceased celebrity ministry and lay on the grave so that they can supposedly soak up what they believe to be some remaining “anointing” that is still in their bodies. This is far worse than dog barking, where if they do not repent after being counselled about their inappropriate behaviour then we should be excommunicating anyone who continues to undertake this type of activity.

When it comes to Rome, from my understanding, I gather that they frown on this type of activity but when it comes to Third World regions, they seem to turn a blind eye to the practice of worshipping bones as this type of practice is something that their members are often familiar with from within the various demonic religions that are supposed to have come out of.
Having holy peoples bones around like the early Christians did in the catacombs is kind of odd by modern western secular and protestant standards, but it's still not the same kind of mental state we see in the charismatic videos where they look hypnotized and their heads shake and bodies shake with weird laughter or barking and otherwise seeming possessed to some mainstream christians.
 
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ToBeLoved

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This stuff was going on and various people were regularly manifesting like different animals. John Wimber said that they weren't sure what was of God and what wasn't, so he suggested they should monitor the long term effects of such manifestations.

As Hank Hannagraaf put it, this basically turned these churches into a spiritual lab of sorts and the congregants were the guinea pigs.

We can see the long term fruits of this, though, with the growth of unbiblical, plainly heretical ministries such as Bethel and Ihop (both Mike Bickle and Bill Johnson attended the Toronto Blessing).
That was always John Wimber's mo. He taught at Fuller with Peter Wagner to test his theory on them. They practiced casting out demons and other spiritual things on each other, the students.
 
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AGTG

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That was always John Wimber's mo. He taught at Fuller with Peter Wagner to test his theory on them. They practiced casting out demons and other spiritual things on each other, the students.

Yes, and as prestigious and conservative as Fuller Theological Seminar sounds, it's been liberalized and apostate since at least the 70s. It was the gateway for tons of occult, newage practices to infiltrate the Charismatic movement, and now it's been gobbling up mainstream evangelicalism.
 
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