Is Jesus Jewish? I think not

yeshuasavedme

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Hi AlexDTX,
Your reasons are valid but do study it a bit...
Melchi Zedek/Tzedek means king of righteousness, and that is the Patriarchal office our first father and the first, firstborn son of God of the human being kind was created to serve in, as the Priest/King/Father of earth, who would ever make intercession for his own seed, before the Glory. The Kinsman/Redeemer has now ransomed back that office and is the everlasting Father of the New Man creation human being flesh, which all His adopted sons will be clothed in at the resurrection or change of them.
In Adam we are orphans, but in Christ, we are sons of God, but we do not yet have our incorruptible flesh bodies to wear, but that is our "Hope".

The office was always going to be ransomed back by the Kinsman/Redeemer, the Last Man and Firstborn son of God of earth, and the office was held by the patriarchs, who died, and it passed on, to another.
Enoch held that office, and made intercession for his descendants. Noah received it from Methuselah, passed it to Shem, who was the one who passed it to Abraham, for indeed, the Jewish writings/histories, tell us Shem was the king of righteousness who met Abraham when he returned from defeating Nimrod and the kings with him. Shem was not named by Moses because in Torah, he was morphosed into the type of the Son of God, on purpose, as Hebrews 7 states, but the histories knew he was Shem.
Jacob received it from Isaac, and Levi was given it as Jacob's tithe to God, and Aaron was baptized into that office of high priest, a type of Messiah, by Moses, and his sons were to hold it until Messiah/The Anointed One, would come and be the never dying, Everlasting Father and High Priest of earth, and the intercessor for all his sons, in heaven above.

John the Baptist was in line to be in that office, but it was totally sold into corruption in the era of the Maccabees, but John baptized the Messiah into that office of High Priest, which office Moses, acting as king and high priest, baptized Aaron into, but only the office of the Messiah/Anointed One/High Priest, and John baptizing Jesus into that office was to fulfill all righteousness: and the Holy Spirit of the Anointing came upon Jesus, to seal it, at the baptism of John.

He ascended on the first, first day after Passover, as High Priest of earth, and His first duty in heaven's temple was the Wave Offering of the First of Firstfruits of earth's "harvested" sons, to fulfill that living Oracle.

He is not yet crowned as High King, but sits to be crowned as High King of earth, which is shown to us in Revelation, when He receives the Crown and then takes His great power unto Himself and reigns.

So the office Adam lost by sin and his sons all died in, which was given to Shem and then to Abraham and down to the tribe of Levi, where it was separated into the two offices, is now in the Firstborn Son of God who is High Priest of earth, which Aaron held to rehearse once yearly, in the Atonement; and though He has purchased the earth by His sprinkled blood upon it -which came out of His side as the spear was thrust in- yet He has not yet taken His power unto Himself and reigned on earth as High King....but He will.


Nimrod is called Amraphael, in Genesis, for in him [el/mighty one], they/the people [am] fell [rapha], at the tower.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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I don't suppose that you'll try and back that statement up with Scripture. And I mean actual Scripture. Not "Jasher", not Enoch; but actual Scripture.

-CryptoLutheran
John 7:39
The Holy Spirit of power and glory was given after Jesus was glorified, and not til then. When Jesus breathed on the disciples after His resurrection, He breathed into them the second birth, but told them to wait for the Holy Spirit [of power], and not til Pentecost did He send it, having received it from the Father.
 
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ViaCrucis

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John 7:39
The Holy Spirit of power and glory was given after Jesus was glorified, and not til then. When Jesus breathed on the disciples after His resurrection, He breathed into them the second birth, but told them to wait for the Holy Spirit [of power], and not til Pentecost did He send it, having received it from the Father.

Curious:

Are we talking about Christ returning and entering into the glory of the Father sitting at the Father's right hand, or are we talking about Christ's transformed body?

I've been talking about Christ's body. That the resurrection is the transformation of the body, and Christ's "glorious body" as St. Paul calls it in Philippians 3:21 is as we shall have when we are raised up on the last day.

That's a lot different than the glory you seem to be talking about here, the glory the Son has at the right hand of the Father as Lord and King of all things.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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I have always understood that Christ ascended twice. First, right after the resurrection to present his blood to the holy of holies in heaven, then 10 days before Pentecost when he left the Mt. of Olives.

What gave you that idea? Just curious. That's not something I'd ever heard until rather recently, and I'm not sure how anyone would get such an idea. Scripture clearly doesn't say it or suggest it, it's not something one will find in the teaching of any mainstream Christian church.

So where does the idea of Christ ascending twice come from?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Sundown

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John 7:39
The Holy Spirit of power and glory was given after Jesus was glorified, and not til then. When Jesus breathed on the disciples after His resurrection, He breathed into them the second birth, but told them to wait for the Holy Spirit [of power], and not til Pentecost did He send it, having received it from the Father.


If you read John 20:22, Yeshua breathed on them, and saith unto them, receive ye the Holy Spirit, which means that they received the Holy Spirit right before Yeshua left. What took place on Pentecost the Holy Spirit filled the room, it does not say God gave them the Holy Spirit, it says that there came a sound from heaven like a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit. The moment one receives Christ as Savior the Holy Spirit comes in.

Some may say that it was "probably just" for their spiritual quickening in preparation for their full endowment with the Spirit in power at Pentecost, but if this was the case it would state that. Also note, any commentaries that say "probably just" indicates it is not conclusive. What is conclusive is that it says Yeshua breathed on them, and saith receive ye the Holy Spirit.

What took place on Pentecost day (which is 50 days from Passover up to the feast of Shavuot) was something unique that God and allowed the eleven disciple to partake of, this was why they were told to wait.

What John 20:22 states one cannot give it another interpretation.

I will put my view on the table, it is not stated to argue.
 
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AlexDTX

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What gave you that idea? Just curious. That's not something I'd ever heard until rather recently, and I'm not sure how anyone would get such an idea. Scripture clearly doesn't say it or suggest it, it's not something one will find in the teaching of any mainstream Christian church.

So where does the idea of Christ ascending twice come from?

-CryptoLutheran
John 20:17. Mary meets Jesus outside the tomb, and Jesus says to Mary:

"Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brothers, and say to them, I ascend to my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

Jesus told Mary that he was about to ascend to his Father. Later on he reveals himself to the disciples and they are allowed to touch him, specifically Thomas so he would not doubt (John 20:27). Forty days after his resurrection appearance he ascends to heaven from the Mt. of Olives. When Jesus spoke to Mary he spoke in in the present tense. He did not say "I will ascend".
 
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ViaCrucis

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John 20:17. Mary meets Jesus outside the tomb, and Jesus says to Mary:

"Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brothers, and say to them, I ascend to my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

Jesus told Mary that he was about to ascend to his Father. Later on he reveals himself to the disciples and they are allowed to touch him, specifically Thomas so he would not doubt (John 20:27). Forty days after his resurrection appearance he ascends to heaven from the Mt. of Olives. When Jesus spoke to Mary he spoke in in the present tense. He did not say "I will ascend".

That's a problem in misunderstanding the text. Jesus doesn't say "don't touch Me", that is, to feel, be touched, etc but "don't cling to Me". In John 20:17 Jesus says "μή μου ἅπτου" (me mou haptou), that is "don't cling to Me"; in verse 27 He tells Thomas "Φέρε τὸν δάκτυλόν σου ὧδε καὶ ἴδε τὰς χεῖράς μου" (phero ton daktylon sou hode kai ide tas cheiras mou), that is, "reach your finger here and perceive my hands".

Nothing--not one thing--in Scripture says that Jesus ascended between His resurrection and His appearance before the Twelve. And the issue here is that Mary wanted to cling to Jesus, that is, her Rabboni was back from the dead and she didn't want to let Him go, Jesus needed Mary that it wasn't the time to cling to Him--He was still to ascend to the Father. Which He did, forty days after the resurrection. He was to be with them only a short while, then He would ascend to take His seat at the Father's right hand, and would send the Holy Spirit, who would be their comforter in His absence (c.f. John ch. 14)

Scripture has only one ascension of Christ, not two. Nor does Scripture indicate anything about Jesus applying His blood to some heavenly holy of holies--that is not only unbiblical, but as a theological concept completely contrary to the teaching of the Gospel.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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AlexDTX

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That's a problem in misunderstanding the text. Jesus doesn't say "don't touch Me", that is, to feel, be touched, etc but "don't cling to Me". In John 20:17 Jesus says "μή μου ἅπτου" (me mou haptou), that is "don't cling to Me"; in verse 27 He tells Thomas "Φέρε τὸν δάκτυλόν σου ὧδε καὶ ἴδε τὰς χεῖράς μου" (phero ton daktylon sou hode kai ide tas cheiras mou), that is, "reach your finger here and perceive my hands".

Nothing--not one thing--in Scripture says that Jesus ascended between His resurrection and His appearance before the Twelve. And the issue here is that Mary wanted to cling to Jesus, that is, her Rabboni was back from the dead and she didn't want to let Him go, Jesus needed Mary that it wasn't the time to cling to Him--He was still to ascend to the Father. Which He did, forty days after the resurrection. He was to be with them only a short while, then He would ascend to take His seat at the Father's right hand, and would send the Holy Spirit, who would be their comforter in His absence (c.f. John ch. 14)

Scripture has only one ascension of Christ, not two. Nor does Scripture indicate anything about Jesus applying His blood to some heavenly holy of holies--that is not only unbiblical, but as a theological concept completely contrary to the teaching of the Gospel.

-CryptoLutheran
If this be so, what translation makes it that way?
 
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ViaCrucis

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If this be so, what translation makes it that way?

Here's a comparison from a bunch of different translations:

"Jesus said, 'Do not hold on to me'" - NIV

"'Don't cling to me,' Jesus said" - NLT

"Jesus said to her, 'Do not cling to me'" - ESV

"Jesus said to her, 'Stop clinging to Me'" - NASB

"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not" - KJV

"'Don't cling to Me,' Jesus told her" - HCSB

"Jesus saith to her, Touch me not;" - ASV

"Jesus saith to her: Do not touch me" - Douay-Rheims

"Jesus saith to her, Touch me not:" - Websters


-CryptoLutheran
 
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AlexDTX

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You gave me a lot to ruminate, but I will answer you this week. It appears as if you are a Jesus only believer, are you? As for David he was referring to the omnipresent of God, which one cannot escape. It is like me saying, in the wilderness where there is no inhabitant God is still them, which this is my testimony .... I cried out and he did not respond, I asked why and he kept silent, still I was not alone God was there. So, David was referring that he cannot escape God's presence.

I don't know what "Jesus only" means. My references are to our justification are only by the man Christ Jesus.

Yes, in him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily, but that would be in the divine nature he was in and is presently in as he sit on the right hand of the God the Father. Remember he is of the essence of God and being in the form of God, he though it not robbery to be equal with God when he came into the word to redeem us.
He thought it not robbery to be equal with God because he was a man born from God, but a man nonetheless. Of course the point Paul is making to the Philippians, is that he had emptied himself of his divine position to be completely a man equal to us. In other words Paul is telling us to recognize who we are in Christ but to walk humbly with God and man.

If the word became flesh then he could not leave the word with the father, otherwise the scripture would be incorrect (this is the way I am understanding the way you wrote). Death insinuates separation, when God told Adam the day you eat thereof you shall surely died, he was separated from God because of sin (spiritual death), and when he died he was separate from the earth (Physical death), and if a person dies without Christ he will be separated permanently from God throughout eternity in a place of torment.

I don't think much of this definition of death. It smacks of contemporary theology the wants to diminish the horror of the Lake of Fire where the worm never dies and the fire is never quenched. The lost are already separated from God, so it is not any worse for them when they die.

The original death that God created was good for it is for the purpose of regeneration and transformation. People, plants and animals all have death as the means for growth. Without the cells dying they could not be replaced with new cells that make the changes from infant to adolescent to adult.

Death was twisted with the fall of mankind. Death became unable to reproduce correctly after maturation for the maintenance of the body. Consequently, like the old copy machine that would lose quality after each generation of copies, the inability to replicate the dying cells causes the changes to us we call old age.

It is the good purpose of death that saves us. Jesus as man died (the Word can not die) and was regenerated (resurrected) anew. We can also die thus be born anew both in the spirit then later with our bodies.

Death is a cessation of existence, but the spirit does not die.

God created the soul/spirit of man to live without ceasing, which means that a person cannot die and be dissolve. So, Yes, Yeshua died on the cross and in that death he bore our sins on his body and when he gave up his spirit he was physically separated from earth. Wasn't he, do you agree?

The spirit of man is made from the breath of God. That word "breath" in Genesis 2:7 is not the Hebrew word ruach (which is usually translated as spirit) but neshamah. I believe it can not die because it is from substance of God himself, which is our spark of divinity. I also believe that the messengers that are ministering spirits which we call angels are also made from the breath of God and can not die. This is why the Lake of Fire was created for Lucifer and his demons. People will also be cast into the lake of fire because they reject the regeneration offered by Christ. Consequently they remain in their perpetual death. Rust is metal burning slowly. Worms are used to decompose matter. When they are resurrected bodily for the White Throne Judgement, they will get what they wanted: remain in their permanent death.

If Yeshua was created then he could not be Diety, so I will stay away from that word. Scriptures teaches that he came in the likeness of man, and Yeshua said he is the second Adam. So, he came in the like of Adam, bodily structure, in a divine nature no sin, but to say he was created no where in the scripture can you support that statement.

He was born. That is creation. He became a part of creation.

I will not elaborate on it, but will say it in short .... the atonement that Yeshua did on the cross is the finish work and through accepting that atonement we are saved. Christ offered himself as the ultimate sin sacrifice when he born all our sins on his own body and it was our sins that brought him to calvary when he voluntarily offer himself to be the sin sacrifice. (I can elaborate on it, but keeping it short).

You wrote so much that I did not finish responding.
Agreed.

Now, if I made as you .... I hate the word trinity because at times it gives the impression of polygamy to does you do not believe that Yeshua is God, but to you believe in the Godhead as God the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit distinct but equal, being of the essense, like Christ brought from of the Father?

I am a believer in the Trinity, but not in the polytheistic sense. I do not believe in three gods as the polytheists of mythology. God is one person, but he is three persons in one. To answer this - and the Bible only crowd will dismiss this - I want to share a real personal testimony. I offer it as illustration, even though I expect criticism and scepticism.

Before I knew the new birth 30 years ago, I kept track of my dreams. As a young adult I had read the Carlos Castaneda series on the Yaqi Indian of Mexico who taught him supernatural experiences using Peyote. I had heard years later that the series was fiction created by Carlos Castaneda, but I took it seriously at the time. One of the directions he was given was to try to consciously control his dreams. I never managed to do that, but I did increase my ability to remember dreams, of which I kept a dream journal. I frequently noticed that in my dreams I would look at myself from one point of view, then see from that other point of view.

About 10 years later at the age of 32 I experienced the new birth. After a year I struggled with sexual lust and had a girl friend who I had slept with. One night I had an out of body experience. My body was lying in the bed next to the girl but my soul had sat up out of my body. A demon, or Lucifer was talking to my spirit which was across the room. I could not see my spirit, but I knew its location. And like in the dream I also had the point of view of my spirit. I was not dreaming. I was in the spirit in the room where I physically laid.

I tell you this to help you see my understanding of the Trinity. We are made in God's image. We call him Father, Word, and Holy Spirit. I don't use the term Son, because that is a theological term expressing the relationship of the Word to the Father based upon the Word becoming flesh as the Son of God. Nonetheless, my experience made me realize that I am 3 people in one. My spirit is a person, my soul is a person and my body is a person. But the person of each is still me. Likewise, with God we have Yahweh the Father, Yahweh the Word and Yahweh the Spirit - he is one being in three persons. Nor do I think these are various expressions of him as the United Pentecostals believe. They are three persons, and Yahweh the Word is the person that became flesh.

When Jesus speaks of the Father in the gospels, I don 't think he is making the theological distinction we have. He meant God as a whole was his Father, and God as a whole is our Father, as well. I think Jesus was speak strictly as a man.

These are beneficial only from an academic point of view. No one needs to believe these things to have a relation with God through Christ. Recognizing that you are a sinner in need of a Savior and that salvation has been made by God through Jesus Christ is all one needs to believe and confess to know Christ.

These things are matters for personal understanding.

As a post script I would add this. Only our human spirits have been born again at this time. I believe our souls are in process of the new birth which is what Romans 12:1 and 2 address. And our bodies with be born again in the resurrection to come. Our victory in Christ right now is not in our souls with its intellectual comprehension, and certainly not in our ageing bodies. Our victory is in the spirit. Knowing how to recognize our the change in our spirits and what we have is the duty of the Church to help the body of Christ walk in that victory. This is what I try to do.
 
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AlexDTX

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Here's a comparison from a bunch of different translations:

"Jesus said, 'Do not hold on to me'" - NIV

"'Don't cling to me,' Jesus said" - NLT

"Jesus said to her, 'Do not cling to me'" - ESV

"Jesus said to her, 'Stop clinging to Me'" - NASB

"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not" - KJV

"'Don't cling to Me,' Jesus told her" - HCSB

"Jesus saith to her, Touch me not;" - ASV

"Jesus saith to her: Do not touch me" - Douay-Rheims

"Jesus saith to her, Touch me not:" - Websters


-CryptoLutheran

Thanks.
 
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AlexDTX

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These things are neccessary, I guess, to discuss so that anyone interested can do their own research, if they care to....
His body could not corrupt because His flesh did not have sin in it, which is corruption.
It was the Mercy Seat, which is pure, undefiled, which received the shed blood Atonement sprinkled upon it.
He laid His own Life down, freely, to taste death for us, firstly, the spiritual death in the separation from the Father when all our sins were laid on His soul, not on His flesh. His flesh was striped for our healing, and by His stripes we are physically healed, but His the Father laid on His soul the iniquities of us all.
Isaiah 53.
In the rehearsal for the Day of the Final Atonement Moses taught to elect one goat "To Azazel", and one goat "To YHWH", as the Hebrew so states.
The High Priest serving in the office of Christ to rehearse the Person and Work of Christ/Messiah who was to come, laid hands on the goat elected by lot "To Azazel", and transferred all the sins and iniquities of the people of God upon that goat, and then that goat was sent away alive, "To Azazel", who is chained in Sheol below, and Sheol is represented in the Day of Atonement by the "wilderness".
So the goat was sent away alive, and the goat elected "To YHWH" was offered as a burnt offering upon the altar, which the smoke of asc ended up, to YHWH.

When Jesus died, He commended His spirit to the Father, and that was represented by the goat on the Day of Atonement as "To YHWH", and His soul departed His True Mercy Seat, incorruptible, New Man flesh body, and descended to Sheol below, to fulfill the Word Noah wrote about "That Day", in a fragment in the Book of Enoch, that upon the chained fallen Watcher, Azazel, all sin would be ascribed/given in the 70th generation...

So, no, Jesus' body is the True Mercy Seat, in the Word of God, which is said so as I linked the passages to you, above, and His body, being incorruptible like solid gold, can never perish, and He took that same body back, Himself, when He rose from the dead after giving all sin "To Azazel", who with his company of fallen Watcher angels chained in Sheol, will be tormented forever and forever for....

He took our sins away, which were transferred to His soul, but His flesh is incorruptible and could not corrupt ever, as Moses typed for us in the Torah; and His flesh body is ever the True Mercy Seat, and all the redeemed are hidden under that True Mercy Seat, which was covered with the blood of sprinkling, once, for all.



as Adam our first father did, who died and was divorced/cut off from the Glory and cast down and out of Eden above, in the third heaven, where Paradise is -all this is in Scripture.

I am sorry. I have trouble reading your comments, for I don't sense the Father speaking and they are dryly academic.
 
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Sundown

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That's a problem in misunderstanding the text. Jesus doesn't say "don't touch Me", that is, to feel, be touched, etc but "don't cling to Me". In John 20:17 Jesus says "μή μου ἅπτου" (me mou haptou), that is "don't cling to Me"; in verse 27 He tells Thomas "Φέρε τὸν δάκτυλόν σου ὧδε καὶ ἴδε τὰς χεῖράς μου" (phero ton daktylon sou hode kai ide tas cheiras mou), that is, "reach your finger here and perceive my hands".

Nothing--not one thing--in Scripture says that Jesus ascended between His resurrection and His appearance before the Twelve. And the issue here is that Mary wanted to cling to Jesus, that is, her Rabboni was back from the dead and she didn't want to let Him go, Jesus needed Mary that it wasn't the time to cling to Him--He was still to ascend to the Father. Which He did, forty days after the resurrection. He was to be with them only a short while, then He would ascend to take His seat at the Father's right hand, and would send the Holy Spirit, who would be their comforter in His absence (c.f. John ch. 14)

Scripture has only one ascension of Christ, not two. Nor does Scripture indicate anything about Jesus applying His blood to some heavenly holy of holies--that is not only unbiblical, but as a theological concept completely contrary to the teaching of the Gospel.

-CryptoLutheran

He tells Mary, touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father, meaning he had to ascend first. Either Yeshua ascended to his Father or he went against his own words by appearing to the disciples? From the time of Mary to the time he appeared to the disciples, most likely he ascended. Touch and cling means nothing, what means something is that Yeshua was not to be touched until he ascended to Father and he made that clear.
 
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I don't know what "Jesus only" means. My references are to our justification are only by the man Christ Jesus.


He thought it not robbery to be equal with God because he was a man born from God, but a man nonetheless. Of course the point Paul is making to the Philippians, is that he had emptied himself of his divine position to be completely a man equal to us. In other words Paul is telling us to recognize who we are in Christ but to walk humbly with God and man.



I don't think much of this definition of death. It smacks of contemporary theology the wants to diminish the horror of the Lake of Fire where the worm never dies and the fire is never quenched. The lost are already separated from God, so it is not any worse for them when they die.

The original death that God created was good for it is for the purpose of regeneration and transformation. People, plants and animals all have death as the means for growth. Without the cells dying they could not be replaced with new cells that make the changes from infant to adolescent to adult.

Death was twisted with the fall of mankind. Death became unable to reproduce correctly after maturation for the maintenance of the body. Consequently, like the old copy machine that would lose quality after each generation of copies, the inability to replicate the dying cells causes the changes to us we call old age.

It is the good purpose of death that saves us. Jesus as man died (the Word can not die) and was regenerated (resurrected) anew. We can also die thus be born anew both in the spirit then later with our bodies.

Death is a cessation of existence, but the spirit does not die.



The spirit of man is made from the breath of God. That word "breath" in Genesis 2:7 is not the Hebrew word ruach (which is usually translated as spirit) but neshamah. I believe it can not die because it is from substance of God himself, which is our spark of divinity. I also believe that the messengers that are ministering spirits which we call angels are also made from the breath of God and can not die. This is why the Lake of Fire was created for Lucifer and his demons. People will also be cast into the lake of fire because they reject the regeneration offered by Christ. Consequently they remain in their perpetual death. Rust is metal burning slowly. Worms are used to decompose matter. When they are resurrected bodily for the White Throne Judgement, they will get what they wanted: remain in their permanent death.



He was born. That is creation. He became a part of creation.


Agreed.



I am a believer in the Trinity, but not in the polytheistic sense. I do not believe in three gods as the polytheists of mythology. God is one person, but he is three persons in one. To answer this - and the Bible only crowd will dismiss this - I want to share a real personal testimony. I offer it as illustration, even though I expect criticism and scepticism.

Before I knew the new birth 30 years ago, I kept track of my dreams. As a young adult I had read the Carlos Castaneda series on the Yaqi Indian of Mexico who taught him supernatural experiences using Peyote. I had heard years later that the series was fiction created by Carlos Castaneda, but I took it seriously at the time. One of the directions he was given was to try to consciously control his dreams. I never managed to do that, but I did increase my ability to remember dreams, of which I kept a dream journal. I frequently noticed that in my dreams I would look at myself from one point of view, then see from that other point of view.

About 10 years later at the age of 32 I experienced the new birth. After a year I struggled with sexual lust and had a girl friend who I had slept with. One night I had an out of body experience. My body was lying in the bed next to the girl but my soul had sat up out of my body. A demon, or Lucifer was talking to my spirit which was across the room. I could not see my spirit, but I knew its location. And like in the dream I also had the point of view of my spirit. I was not dreaming. I was in the spirit in the room where I physically laid.

I tell you this to help you see my understanding of the Trinity. We are made in God's image. We call him Father, Word, and Holy Spirit. I don't use the term Son, because that is a theological term expressing the relationship of the Word to the Father based upon the Word becoming flesh as the Son of God. Nonetheless, my experience made me realize that I am 3 people in one. My spirit is a person, my soul is a person and my body is a person. But the person of each is still me. Likewise, with God we have Yahweh the Father, Yahweh the Word and Yahweh the Spirit - he is one being in three persons. Nor do I think these are various expressions of him as the United Pentecostals believe. They are three persons, and Yahweh the Word is the person that became flesh.

When Jesus speaks of the Father in the gospels, I don 't think he is making the theological distinction we have. He meant God as a whole was his Father, and God as a whole is our Father, as well. I think Jesus was speak strictly as a man.

These are beneficial only from an academic point of view. No one needs to believe these things to have a relation with God through Christ. Recognizing that you are a sinner in need of a Savior and that salvation has been made by God through Jesus Christ is all one needs to believe and confess to know Christ.

These things are matters for personal understanding.

As a post script I would add this. Only our human spirits have been born again at this time. I believe our souls are in process of the new birth which is what Romans 12:1 and 2 address. And our bodies with be born again in the resurrection to come. Our victory in Christ right now is not in our souls with its intellectual comprehension, and certainly not in our ageing bodies. Our victory is in the spirit. Knowing how to recognize our the change in our spirits and what we have is the duty of the Church to help the body of Christ walk in that victory. This is what I try to do.
 
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Sundown

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I do not like the word trinity because it makes it appear to some people as 3 gods, where is it 3 person which is the Godhead. Within the nature of the one God there are three distinct persons, Father who is God, Son who is God, the Holy Spirit who is God, not that we have three gods, but one.

About cessation of existence, then you need to explain Abraham bossom, unless you believe that is a parable, like some do.
 
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ViaCrucis

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He tells Mary, touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father, meaning he had to ascend first. Either Yeshua ascended to his Father or he went against his own words by appearing to the disciples? From the time of Mary to the time he appeared to the disciples, most likely he ascended. Touch and cling means nothing, what means something is that Yeshua was not to be touched until he ascended to Father and he made that clear.

He said "don't cling to Me", that's the clear part. That's what the Evangelist wrote.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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yeshuasavedme

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I am sorry. I have trouble reading your comments, for I don't sense the Father speaking and they are dryly academic.
I do not claim to speak for the father. The last word from God is Jesus.

I love the word of God and I study it and I make it part of my life and I seek understanding in it..but before I began studying the word, I received the revelation of Jesus Christ in my heart, and was born again by his one living spirit.

Since that day, 47 years ago next October, it has been a continual feast to discover wonderful things in his Word, as he opens my eyes.
 
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Sundown

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He said "don't cling to Me", that's the clear part. That's what the Evangelist wrote.

-CryptoLutheran

Just because he said don't cling unto me does not mean that they touched him. Let me give you an example .... Sure when you were young some wanted to fight you and you said, don't touch me or else. Don't touch me does not necessarily mean that the person is being told.

Again, if Yeshua said, don't touch me I need to go to the Father, then if he was touched by the disciple before going to his Father he would go against his own words. Would you agree? If you agree then you would have to agree that he did go to the Father.
 
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AlexDTX

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I do not like the word trinity because it makes it appear to some people as 3 gods, where is it 3 person which is the Godhead. Within the nature of the one God there are three distinct persons, Father who is God, Son who is God, the Holy Spirit who is God, not that we have three gods, but one.

About cessation of existence, then you need to explain Abraham bossom, unless you believe that is a parable, like some do.
The human spirit and soul continue to exist. Genesis 2:7 says that God formed man from the dust of the Earth (body); breathed the breath of life (spirit) and he became a living soul. That means the soul is a combination of body and spirit. Since it is partially spirit it can not die. Cessation is of the body, which God will reform at our resurrection.

As for Abraham's bosom: first, Abraham is alive with God in heaven since all the dead who had faith in Christ came out of the graves when Jesus was resurrected. However, before that Abraham was Sheol, Hades, or Hell (the 1st is Hebrew, the 2nd is Greek and the 3rd being Scandinavian). I do not define Hell as the place of torment, but prison. God will not send people to punishment until the White Throne Judgement. But all the dead were contained in Sheol, Hades or Hell. In the story, which I do consider to be a parable since it is sandwiched between a series of parables despite the specific names, Lazarus is embracing Abraham with a hug, which is what is meant by his bosom. To make it the name of a special place is stupid, in my opinion.
 
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The human spirit and soul continue to exist. Genesis 2:7 says that God formed man from the dust of the Earth (body); breathed the breath of life (spirit) and he became a living soul. That means the soul is a combination of body and spirit. Since it is partially spirit it can not die. Cessation is of the body, which God will reform at our resurrection.

As for Abraham's bosom: first, Abraham is alive with God in heaven since all the dead who had faith in Christ came out of the graves when Jesus was resurrected. However, before that Abraham was Sheol, Hades, or Hell (the 1st is Hebrew, the 2nd is Greek and the 3rd being Scandinavian). I do not define Hell as the place of torment, but prison. God will not send people to punishment until the White Throne Judgement. But all the dead were contained in Sheol, Hades or Hell. In the story, which I do consider to be a parable since it is sandwiched between a series of parables despite the specific names, Lazarus is embracing Abraham with a hug, which is what is meant by his bosom. To make it the name of a special place is stupid, in my opinion.

Flesh and born to dust, yes I will agree. I will respond to the second part tomorrow, stepping away from PC.
 
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