Is it fair to say Islam is a peaceful religion?

[JGG]

sleepingsubject wrote

Yes. This is a valid criticism as shown. I have presented the Quranic surahs. Not only have I shown the surah from the Quran but shown and described the passages from the NT to propose that Christians fundamentalists are the ones who don’t kill in the name of Jesus.

Some do, plenty don't. Same as Islam.

Then what do we get in response to the evidential criticism of Islam.

Evidential criticism of Christianity?

mere ignorant opinionated baseless denial from selfinflikted.

So, what you're telling us is that you want to be able to criticize Islam from your "outsider's" point of view, but want Christianity to be free from any criticism from someone else's "outsider's" point of view? Isn't that a bit of a double standard?

In fairness anything that isn’t atheist or secular liberalism is fundamentalism and to be mariginalised

Well no, that's not true. There's lots of room between atheism and religious fundamentalism.

but I have the suspicion atheist liberalism thinks it can gradually marginalise Christianity, and in the short term negociate some sort of co-operation with Islam.

But aren't you just trying to gradually marginalise Islam?

And really, have you not figured out what I've been getting at yet?

 

[Phinehas2]

Art Vandelay,

Yes, but to look at Islam requires one to look at the interpretations of Islam, and there are certainly more than one.

No all that will do is show you whether they are valid interpretations or not. What people claim is not necessarily an interpretation, sometimes it’s a falsehood.
In short, to the question is Islam a peaceful religion my answer is no. The reason is that the Quran instructs Muslims to kill and to take these abrogated verses as the ones to follow as opposed to previous contradictory ones. Also that the Quran also says Muslims should do what the prophet Mohammed does, and the prophet Mohammed organised violent military campaigns and order the stoning of people.

And for the most part I think it is self-serving for Christians to assume that they have the better grasp of Islam so as to determine who is and who is not a true Muslim.

Well my friend if as you say you can’t judge Islam as an outsider then how could you know whether Christians have a better grasp of it or not.

 

[onemorequestion]

Is it fair to say Islam is a peaceful religion?

From cutting people's heads off to crashing planes into buildings it seems like lots of Muslims think killing in the name of Islam's God is the right thing to do. Are these guy just errant nutters or is there a significant portion of Islam that is not peaceful.

The consistent history of Islam declares it is not a peaceful political ideology for anyone except those that accept its religious positions. And even then, the warring between different factions of Muslims UNTIL THIS DAY shows that not to be all that peaceful either.

How many people willingly convert to Islam in the same numbers as do they Christianity and Secularism?

Which in today's era is an act people do wilfully and freely as a choice pondered and made.

 

[Phinehas2]

JGG,
The topic is about Islam, not Muslims, is Islam, the religion that Muslims are supposed to follow, a peaceful religion.
My submission is no, it is not, and the reason is because the Quran which all Muslims follow has passages which instruct killing of non-Muslims which abrogate those which say not to, and in accordance with the Quran in addition Muslims should do what Mohammed did, Mohammed ordered the stoning of people and military campaigns.
What is your opinion about Islam as a religion of peace and why?

Some do, plenty don't.

No, what makes them fundamental Christians is their adherence to not killing unbelievers.

 

[Belk]

Is it fair to say Islam is a peaceful religion?



The consistent history of Islam declares it is not a peaceful political ideology for anyone except those that accept its religious positions. And even then, the warring between different factions of Muslims UNTIL THIS DAY shows that not to be all that peaceful either.

Exactly! Just like the history of those Protestants and Catholics show that Christianity is not a peaceful religion. They are still blowing each other up.

How many people willingly convert to Islam in the same numbers as do they Christianity and Secularism?

Which in today's era is an act people do wilfully and freely as a choice pondered and made.

Uh... Islam is growing. Unlike Christianity which is losing numbers.

Religions of the world: numbers of adherents; growth rates

 

[KarateCowboy]

Yes, but to look at Islam requires one to look at the interpretations of Islam, and there are certainly more than one. So whose interpretation rules?

The best interpretation is that of its founder Muhammed and his immediate disciples. He killed, taught them to kill, and they killed. Convert-or-die raids, etc.

Christ, on the other hand . . .

 

[Charlie Milles]

I don't say that it's peaceful, no. Few ideologies, with wishes of expansion, are.

 

[JGG]

JGG,
The topic is about Islam, not Muslims, is Islam, the religion that Muslims are supposed to follow, a peaceful religion.

Right, but you are proposing that somehow, with your casually researched, outsider's point of view, you know the Islam that Muslims are "supposed to follow" better than Muslims themselves. So, I'm following up with the same claim about Christianity: I happen to know the Christianity that Christians are "supposed to follow." Do Christians know it better than I? No, of course not. Why would they?

My submission is no, it is not, and the reason is because the Quran which all Muslims follow has passages which instruct killing of non-Muslims which abrogate those which say not to, and in accordance with the Quran in addition Muslims should do what Mohammed did, Mohammed ordered the stoning of people and military campaigns.

Right, and my submission is that Christianity is not, because the Bible which all Christians follow has passages which instructs the killing of disobedient children (a law which Jesus reminds us still remains), not to mention the violent acts of the Bible's other heroes. The Bible contains laws which say to kill homosexuals, adulterers, false-prophets, rival nations, and non-believers (even Peter said that non-believers should be destroyed among the people).

What is your opinion about Islam as a religion of peace and why?

Like every other religion, it is violent or peaceful to the degree that the person interpreting it wants it to be violent or peaceful. People interpret out of their own desires, injecting their own needs and values into it, and take out of these holy books what they want to take out of it.

Yes, the Koran is violent in the mind of a violent follower. But a Muslim who wants it to be peaceful will focus on the passages that call for peace, and find reasons to reject those that call for violence. Yes, the Bible is violent in the mind of a violent follower. But a Christian who wants it to be peaceful will focus on the passages that call for peace, and find reasons to reject those that call for violence. And you can never tell any of these people that they are wrong, because they have faith.

No, what makes them fundamental Christians is their adherence to not killing unbelievers.

[/QUOTE]

Sure, because I presume that you are a fundamentalist who believes that killing unbelievers is a sin. However, I grew up in a fundamentalist church that interpreted the Bible to say that Christians are God's army at war with Satan and his army (non-Christians and non-whites), and the day of the final battle is coming, and they will have to violently destroy the enemy and his forces.

Fundamentalism only refers to a group that strictly, and dogmatically follows a set of rigid, narrowly defined beliefs and principles.

 

[KCKID]

The best interpretation is that of its founder Muhammed and his immediate disciples. He killed, taught them to kill, and they killed. Convert-or-die raids, etc.

Christ, on the other hand . . .

God, on the other hand . . .

 

[onemorequestion]

Exactly! Just like the history of those Protestants and Catholics show that Christianity is not a peaceful religion. They are still blowing each other up.

That old dead canard is almost pure bones.

Uh... Islam is growing. Unlike Christianity which is losing numbers.

For two completely different reasons and reasons you should take very careful note of. People reject Christian truth willingly. Islam is "growing" by Muslims breeding. Or by subjugation. And I, as many Christians like me feel, it is by the design laid out in the New Testament that finally we are seeing the wheat from the chaff. So many hertical Christian voices need to just leave and be what they are. But, since secularists will still dominate the landscape even when Muslims overtake the numbers by reproducing in Islamic structured families, the power of the Gospel will still be ruling eternity. Christians came from oppression and will return to that condition sooner or later. The earth is the myth and I prefer to live in reality.

How many warring totalitarian regimes ruled the earth? It is our fate as lemmings to be led by the ruthless.

Religions of the world: numbers of adherents; growth rates

I noticed you dodged my question about people converting to Islam of their own free will.

Obvioulsy I know why.

 

[onemorequestion]

God, on the other hand . . .

Jesus IS God.

Say that in an "Islamic country" and see what happens.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

The best interpretation is that of its founder Muhammed and his immediate disciples. He killed, taught them to kill, and they killed. Convert-or-die raids, etc.

Christ, on the other hand . . .

Gandhi noted the staggering difference between Christ and so-called Christians.

 

[chingchang]

Jesus IS God.

Say that in an "Islamic country" and see what happens.

Wrongo...Yeshua is the son of Yahweh...he is not the Most High God. He said it himself a couple of time...but most clearly in John 14:28 (NIV):

"...If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."

How can someone be greater than Yeshua if he is God? How can God be greater than himself? Doesn't make sense. You have to do mental gymnastics to believe that Yeshua is the Most High God. IMHO...it is blasphemous to call Yeshua 'God'. If Yeshua is God...as you claim...then I guess we will all be Gods one day??????

Romans 8:29 (NIV)
For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

So...Yeshua is the firstborn among many brothers (us)...yet according to your logic Yeshua is God. So...if Yeshua is God...then God is our brother and we are all Gods. Great! I've always wanted to have infinite power. Bwaaaa-ha-haaaaa (evil laugh)....

CC

 

[corvus_corax]

The best interpretation is that of its founder Muhammed and his immediate disciples. He killed, taught them to kill, and they killed. Convert-or-die raids, etc.

Christ, on the other hand . . .

The best interpretation of the bible is that of its founder, Jesus, and his immediate disciples. He never actually killed anyone (that I can remember), never had sex (IIRC), never had sex with a man, never promoted military buildup, never promoted violence that resulted in someone's death, never promoted a "deus vult" crusade, never promoted a "kill them all, let God sort them out" inquisition.
Additionally He raised the dead, preached "love your enemy", cured the blind, changed water into wine, forgave an adulteress (or was that a prostitute?), cured leprosy with but a touch, willingly sat down and had meals with sinners, etc (need I go on?)

Many Christians, on the other hand......

 

[corvus_corax]

Wrongo...Yeshua is the son of Yahweh...he is not the Most High God. He said it himself a couple of time...but most clearly in John 14:28 (NIV):

"...If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."

How can someone be greater than Yeshua if he is God? How can God be greater than himself? Doesn't make sense. You have to do mental gymnastics to believe that Yeshua is the Most High God. IMHO...it is blasphemous to call Yeshua 'God'. If Yeshua is God...as you claim...then I guess we will all be Gods one day??????

Romans 8:29 (NIV)
For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

So...Yeshua is the firstborn among many brothers (us)...yet according to your logic Yeshua is God. So...if Yeshua is God...then God is our brother and we are all Gods. Great! I've always wanted to have infinite power. Bwaaaa-ha-haaaaa (evil laugh)....

CC

So you're not a Trinitarian?

 

[Yusuf Evans]

Obviously, Islam isn't about teaching critical thinking, or there would be no Muslims.

"The ink of the scholar is more holy than the blood of the Martyr"
-Prophet Muhammed SAW

 

[chingchang]

"The ink of the scholar is more holy than the blood of the Martyr"
-Prophet Muhammed SAW

That just proved Aimiel's point. How many virgins await the Martyr in Paradise? Now...how many virgins await the scholar? Exactly. Read into it a bit...

CC

 

[chingchang]

So you're not a Trinitarian?

No...I'm a human being. But...if you study the history of that doctrine you'll see that it is a creation of man. I believe that Yeshua was divine...but I do not believe he was the Most High God. The Bible teaches that if you read it plainly and listen to what Yeshua supposedly said. All IMHO...but it is a matter of faith because the truth is NOBODY REALLY KNOW FOR SURE. We just think we do...

Hugs,
CC

 

[Yusuf Evans]

That just proved Aimiel's point. How many virgins await the Martyr in Paradise? Now...how many virgins await the scholar? Exactly. Read into it a bit...

CC

No need to because I know what it says; there's no specific number of "virgins" for the martyr. However, the one's claiming to be Martyrs for Islam are not martyrs but murderers.

The quote above points out that Islam promotes education and values intelligence. The Prophet SAW could not read, but he told that if anyone could read to teach another to read and to pass it on. Islam has never been above education, nor has it tried to suppress science, math or the arts.

 

[chingchang]

No need to because I know what it says; there's no specific number of "virgins" for the martyr. However, the one's claiming to be Martyrs for Islam are not martyrs but murderers.

Ha! Martyrs for Islam are NOT murderers when their martyrdom is preceded by Jihad. Lie much? According to the Apostle John, Yeshua said the following:

John 8:44 (NIV)
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

The quote above points out that Islam promotes education and values intelligence.

Lip service. Does Islam promote education for women?

The Prophet SAW could not read, but he told that if anyone could read to teach another to read and to pass it on.

That is kinda a no-brainer...

Islam has never been above education, nor has it tried to suppress science, math or the arts.

Unless that art depicts Muhammad in any way! Islam is all about suppression...which brings on an illusion of submission.

CC