Is Homosexuality a Choice?

[martyglo]

Ancient Israelites are not referred to as Jews nor do modern Jews speak Hebrew,they speak Yiddish.....

"Strictly speaking it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a "Jew" or to call a contemporary Jew an Israelite or a Hebrew." 1980 Jewish Almanac, P.3

This has nothing to do with what you said. Or what I replied.

He reads, interprets and teaches the Greek and the Hebrew to those who want to read the original Bible. Because it was in Greek and Hebrew.

Moses was a Hebrew, the same peoples/nation that became known as "the Jews". They were the Hebrews, and then the Israelites, and then the Jews. Still, God's chosen people. Same ones. What they speak today is irrelevant.

I wasn't speaking of Modern Jews in any context. We are talking about the Bible. Or at least I was, it's starting to get cloudy as to what exactly you are speaking about.

You kept saying the Bible is not in English. Yes, I know... it's in Greek and Hebrew. Again, I have long been a student of a teacher who teaches it at the college level for those who seek to study the Bible.

 

[medieval_lady83]

1. Stop referring to black people as wild beasts.

2. If you want to discuss the morality of interracial marriage, maybe you should start your own thread. This thread is about whether or not homosexuality is a choice...just fyi.

The church has come too far to slip back into the racist mindset that you are propagating with verses taken way out of context and your inability to accept the actual definition of fornication.

 

[Ave Maria]

I am not non-denominational but I thought I'd throw my non-debating opinion in here anyway. That said, I do struggle with same sex temptations and I certainly didn't choose to suffer from them. That said, I am mostly heterosexual in my attractions and I am thankful for that because it means that I can get married to someone of the opposite sex sometime in the future. I totally do not agree with same-sex "marriage" and I also don't agree with homosexual sexual activity. I believe both are mortal sins.

 

[randyman54321]

No one chooses to suffer from temptation. Temptations are our evil desires, however you can choose to act on those temptations or to focus on Jesus and turn away from your temptations. I suffer from temptations all the time and a lot of the time I give into them. That is why I am so thankful to have Jesus.

I am not non-denominational but I thought I'd throw my non-debating opinion in here anyway. That said, I do struggle with same sex temptations and I certainly didn't choose to suffer from them. That said, I am mostly heterosexual in my attractions and I am thankful for that because it means that I can get married to someone of the opposite sex sometime in the future. I totally do not agree with same-sex "marriage" and I also don't agree with homosexual sexual activity. I believe both are mortal sins.

 

[medieval_lady83]

phew.... seem we are finally on the same page in some of the issues. but i am reluctant because of your stand on gay = more likely pado. and your appear lack of interest of being cautious making that assumption, accept you might be wrong and do everything within your ability to understand the issue before you make that kind of conclusion.

like i have said once and i will say it again, labeling someone "more likely" pado is a very serious accusation that will have real impact on people lives.

however, while i do not know you. based on all the posts i have seen of you so far. you consistently ignores that fact ( possible impact on others reputation and how it affects them).

you say you treat gay people lovingly but if you really care about someone, you would not want to wrong them by such horrendous linkage.

When homosexuality stops being under the category of sexual sin, I will stop saying it has things in common with other sexual sins.

i have came across many christians ( incl on this forums), for them loving gays is really about "tolerating with those perverts"

there are absolutely no love in their heart what so ever for the gay community.

and what they feel inside, comes out in their words.

deep down inside, they see gays as " dirty perverts" who refuse to repent.

they say they care about gay salvation.

but it is really they hate gays for refusing to agree with God words. and they take that very personally.

but of course, that sounds so unchristlike, hence they always go back to either they care about gay eternal salvation, or if they feel slightly more honest. that gays have no rights to go against God words.

i have said it so many times, i will say it again. God hate the sins but not the person.

God loves us while we are still sinners, that is the only reason He was willing to sacrifise His only son for us while we were still sinning.

His ultimate purpose is to save not to condemn.

to this date. you have yet to apologise or even willing to acknowlege your theory ( not proven) on gays = more likely pado may be wrong. and you have yet to show any desire to look into the matter more. despite the real consequences your notion might have on others.

i do not know you or the other lady. but you can tell a person by their fruits. it is quite clear to me both of you have no love what so ever for the gays.

and you are just trying to use everything you know from the scriputure to justify you desire to condemn them.

judging others is a sin in itself. and what constitute judging, well i believe it has to do ( partly) with ones motives. so is slandering ( spreading info about others that one is not 100% sure is the truth and will hurt others).

i know you say you never deliberately spread such info. if i believe you, does that mean you never shared such notion with others at all.

You really need to get over this pedophile thing. As I said before, I am not actively going around preaching the message that homosexuals are more likely to be pedophiles than any other group of people on the planet. I was merely answering a question you posed in your thread. And, all I said was "Amen" to someone else's answer. I am addressing this in the context of a Christian chat room.

One of your problems seems to be that in your love for people who identify as gay, you are allowing your judgement to be clouded on the seriousness of homosexuality.
Homosexuality IS perverse. It IS dirty. It IS sexual sin. And a person who engages in one kind of sexual sin is more likely to be open-minded about doing other sexual sins.

It is not my problem if that FACT hurts the feelings of another person. The truth hurts. It is only slander if it is not true. Have you ever heard of the term "gateway drugs"? These are drugs that people start using, that lead to more dangerous drugs. Saying that people who smoke marijuana are more likely to start using heroine or cocaine is not slandering those who use marijuana. It is stating a fact. The correlation exists. It is unfortunate if the marijuana users are offended, or if they feel like people have given them a bad image, but it is not the fault of those who draw the connection.

You think I'm slandering gays? That I don't love them. I think you're slandering ME. You think I'm wrong to even say it's possible that one sexual sin could lead to another? Then you prove that homosexuality CAN'T lead to other sexual sins. Prove that I don't love gay people. You have said PLENTY of things about me that are not true. All I have said is things that are clearly stated in scripture, and seen clearly in everyday life. If you can't handle the truth, that is not my problem.

The reason homosexuals don't like being compared to pedophiles is because they think of themselves as being basically good people. They're not trying to hurt anyone, they're just trying to live their life in a way that makes them happy. But they are looking at their circumstances through the eyes of their own understanding. They think homosexuality is just who they are, and it's ok, but pedophiles are evil and bad. So here you come along, trying to defend them, based on THEIR worldview. You need to see them, not just with eyes of compassion, but with biblical truth. Those who identify as gay are loved dearly by God, which is why he sent his son to die for them. But love is only part of the story. He sent his son to die for them because their sins are perverse, and filthy. They may not see it that way, but as a Christian, you need to be able to accept what God says about it.

a person who is commiting sins has no right to correct others. and there are plenty of us who truly loves the gays ( or any unbelievers) and are correcting them out of true love because we really do want them to be saved. So dont worry, even if you two do not get involved, the message will get out to them. you two just need to learn to mind your own business, and keep your judgement and hate to yourself.

one need to take out planck from their own eyes before they point out the saw dusts in others eyes.

Wait a minute, so let me get this straight. You have the right to preach the gospel to homosexuals because you, unlike me, never sin? Is that what you're saying? But I thought slandering people was "the most horrendous thing you could do", and yet you have slandered me again and again. You say I don't truly love gays, that I don't want to see them saved, and that I'm hateful.....I would certainly appreciate it if you would stop slandering and judging me for simply believing what the bible says.

Woe to those who call speaking the truth "hate speech". They need a biblical reality check.

 

[randyman54321]

By the way I would like to mention to one of the earlier posts that mentioned a person commiting sin has not right to correct others. Well then no one can hold anyone accountable. We are to hold one another accountable. The verse Grace51 quoted was either Matthew 7:3 or Luke 6:42 it's the same thing. It is talking about one being a hypocrite. It would be like a gay guy telling another gay guy man your living in sexual sin here let me help you. I find it interesting how people including me at times can take scripture use a verse in a way it was never meant to be used. In both Matthew and Luke Jesus used the word hypocrite but in Grace51's quote it was never mentioned.

 

[randyman54321]

No you are wrong sorry if I am not explaining this clearly. Looking in lust is a sin because you have commitied adultery in your heart. A seperate sin is actually going out and commiting adultery. Also it tells you not to covet your neighbors house, wife, servant, or anything that belongs to your neighbor. So covet in the context is wrongfully want. The 10 commandments are not the same they are different. Telling us what not to do. I understand many people lust after their neighbors wife, house and stuff all the time, the simple fact is they are in sin when they do so.

If that was really true - then the commandments are exactly the same!!!!!!

 

[Blessedj01]

I'm with randy. And yes, we break the 10th commandment all the time.

 

[randyman54321]

Thank you brother, I often forget to mention I am not above this and I am not casting judgement. I only mean to defend scriptures. The 10th commandment is the one I struggle with the most.

I'm with randy. And yes, we break the 10th commandment all the time.

 

[Grace51]

When homosexuality stops being under the category of sexual sin, I will stop saying it has things in common with other sexual sins.



You really need to get over this pedophile thing. As I said before, I am not actively going around preaching the message that homosexuals are more likely to be pedophiles than any other group of people on the planet. I was merely answering a question you posed in your thread. And, all I said was "Amen" to someone else's answer. I am addressing this in the context of a Christian chat room.

One of your problems seems to be that in your love for people who identify as gay, you are allowing your judgement to be clouded on the seriousness of homosexuality.
Homosexuality IS perverse. It IS dirty. It IS sexual sin. And a person who engages in one kind of sexual sin is more likely to be open-minded about doing other sexual sins.

It is not my problem if that FACT hurts the feelings of another person. The truth hurts. It is only slander if it is not true. Have you ever heard of the term "gateway drugs"? These are drugs that people start using, that lead to more dangerous drugs. Saying that people who smoke marijuana are more likely to start using heroine or cocaine is not slandering those who use marijuana. It is stating a fact. The correlation exists. It is unfortunate if the marijuana users are offended, or if they feel like people have given them a bad image, but it is not the fault of those who draw the connection.

You think I'm slandering gays? That I don't love them. I think you're slandering ME. You think I'm wrong to even say it's possible that one sexual sin could lead to another? Then you prove that homosexuality CAN'T lead to other sexual sins. Prove that I don't love gay people. You have said PLENTY of things about me that are not true. All I have said is things that are clearly stated in scripture, and seen clearly in everyday life. If you can't handle the truth, that is not my problem.

The reason homosexuals don't like being compared to pedophiles is because they think of themselves as being basically good people. They're not trying to hurt anyone, they're just trying to live their life in a way that makes them happy. But they are looking at their circumstances through the eyes of their own understanding. They think homosexuality is just who they are, and it's ok, but pedophiles are evil and bad. So here you come along, trying to defend them, based on THEIR worldview. You need to see them, not just with eyes of compassion, but with biblical truth. Those who identify as gay are loved dearly by God, which is why he sent his son to die for them. But love is only part of the story. He sent his son to die for them because their sins are perverse, and filthy. They may not see it that way, but as a Christian, you need to be able to accept what God says about it.



Wait a minute, so let me get this straight. You have the right to preach the gospel to homosexuals because you, unlike me, never sin? Is that what you're saying? But I thought slandering people was "the most horrendous thing you could do", and yet you have slandered me again and again. You say I don't truly love gays, that I don't want to see them saved, and that I'm hateful.....I would certainly appreciate it if you would stop slandering and judging me for simply believing what the bible says.

Woe to those who call speaking the truth "hate speech". They need a biblical reality check.

which part of scriputure says gay lifestyle is a gateway to padophilia?

show me ?

slander you, i was merely pointing out the behaviours you are exhibiting times and times again.

you keep twisting scriputure around and saying that gay sin is more likely to lead to pado? and then you get angry for me merely repeating what you say?

you claim i am slandering you for talking about this type of notion that unfortunately part of christian community love spreading?

like i said, go to APA and you'd realize statistically speaking, gays are no more likely than straight to commit pado. that is FACT.

and scripture never said those exactly word either.

you keep claiming you love them but you do not think it is problem for you to take scripture out of context this way to accuse others of being of pado.

give me break.

 

[Grace51]

By the way I would like to mention to one of the earlier posts that mentioned a person commiting sin has not right to correct others. Well then no one can hold anyone accountable. We are to hold one another accountable. The verse Grace51 quoted was either Matthew 7:3 or Luke 6:42 it's the same thing. It is talking about one being a hypocrite. It would be like a gay guy telling another gay guy man your living in sexual sin here let me help you. I find it interesting how people including me at times can take scripture use a verse in a way it was never meant to be used. In both Matthew and Luke Jesus used the word hypocrite but in Grace51's quote it was never mentioned.

well you need to read my post again.

i was talking about motive.

for someone who correct others not of love. but out of judgement and disgust. then that person is a hypocrite. they want to correct someone sin yet they are sinning themselve.

furthermore, like i said many times. before your eyes were opened by God. would you like someone to point fingers at you in judgement or correct you out of love so you want to know Christ more.

many of you keep using the fact gay lifestyle is sin to justify your judgemental behaviours.

well, i have said thousands of time, i do believe gay lifestyle is a sin and i have told many so.

but i do not point my finger at them, because i was once like them. it is only through God grace that my eyes were opened.

so stop twisting my words

some of you accuse me all sort of things. like slandering you for being unloving.

really, insisting gays = more likely pado is not unloving to the gays. but me pointing out the obvious is.

btw that comment about black people being beast whatever it is. prob is just the poster way of teaching medievallady a lesson of treating others how you want to be treated.

i do not think poster meant it.

but i cant help but see the irony....

oh yes, and why do you think they are non believers if they automaticall agree with us and see things the same way we do.

isnt it ironic that you keep trying to use you own state of saved and impose the same standard on them.

no offense, if God did not gave you the grace and opened you eyes. you would be like them exacly.

with non believers, our goal is to help them believe, period.

 

[Grace51]

Yes hate the sin love the sinner, however as many people have shown the bible is against homosexuality. Plain and simple it is sin. There is nothing wrong with teaching someone they are living in sin. Also, if they call them self christian then it is our duty to hold them accountable to their actions.

Sure some Christians don't deal with the issue correctly. I am sorry if this is the experience you or your friend has encountered. The simple facts are God made everything so he makes the rules. He teaches us homosexuality is wrong it really is that simple it is a choice some people chose wrong.

I know the idea may be offensive but Christianity in today's world is offensive.

no one ever said you dont have the right to preach. but tell me, do you expect non believers to just agree with you before they are touched by God? by non believers i mean all.

and what are you going to do about it if they disagree with you?

bang them in the head with the bible and yelling out profanities, because they are obviously stubborn sinners who deliberatly chose not to see?

or maybe kick them all out the church?

tell me, before you were a christian, did you receive Jesus into you heart the first time people share that with you?

were they patient and loving or judgemental?

so yes. gay deserves the same treatment you got period.

no one is trying to deprive you of your right to spread the truth.

but if you do it with the sole intention of judging ( ie you just think they are bunch of stubborn perverted sinners, and you just want to quote the scripture as way of teaching them a lesson instead out of concern for their salvation).

then keep that judgemental attitude to yourself.

scripture is not a tool for any of you to vent your dislike for others.

for the last time, i do think gay lifetyle is a sin. but it is no better or worse than any other sins.

though many of you know this already, do you not.

 

[medieval_lady83]

no one ever said you dont have the right to preach. but tell me, do you expect non believers to just agree with you before they are touched by God? by non believers i mean all.

and what are you going to do about it if they disagree with you?

bang them in the head with the bible and yelling out profanities, because they are obviously stubborn sinners who deliberatly chose not to see?

or maybe kick them all out the church?

tell me, before you were a christian, did you receive Jesus into you heart the first time people share that with you?

were they patient and loving or judgemental?

so yes. gay deserves the same treatment you got period.

no one is trying to deprive you of your right to spread the truth.

but if you do it with the sole intention of judging ( ie you just think they are bunch of stubborn perverted sinners, and you just want to quote the scripture as way of teaching them a lesson instead out of concern for their salvation).

then keep that judgemental attitude to yourself.

scripture is not a tool for any of you to vent your dislike for others.

for the last time, i do think gay lifetyle is a sin. but it is no better or worse than any other sins.

though many of you know this already, do you not.

Just because someone doesn't do evangelism the same way you do it, doesn't mean they are judgmental.

 

[ivanthegood]

not sure why anyone continues to debate folks the bible says are given over to a debased mind, your not going to convince people who love homosexual behavior and see it as natural and normal, the bible says they are deceived and suffer from a satanic delusion, where they have denied the truth and would rather believe the lie

 

[Grace51]

Just because someone doesn't do evangelism the same way you do it, doesn't mean they are judgmental.

i hope so. God see our heart. and there is nothing Jesus detest more than people whose behaviours turn people away from Him. esp if they know that is what they are doing.

you can say all you want, given what i seen of your post here. i wont be surprised many gays are turned away from gospel as the result of you "way". of course, you say you are not judgemental. but it is also crystal clear you do not care whether the "way" you spread gospel is turning them away or. your fruit already reveals your intention.

btw, i am tired of going round and round with many of you. dont answer this one please.

it is between you and God.

like i said, God sees everything and we will all reap what we sow.

 

[Grace51]

not sure why anyone continues to debate folks the bible says are given over to a debased mind, your not going to convince people who love homosexual behavior and see it as natural and normal, the bible says they are deceived and suffer from a satanic delusion, where they have denied the truth and would rather believe the lie

actually, scripture says all non believers are under satan control.

if you do not want have anything to do with them. we will.

 

[Jonathan95]

not sure why anyone continues to debate folks the bible says are given over to a debased mind, your not going to convince people who love homosexual behavior and see it as natural and normal, the bible says they are deceived and suffer from a satanic delusion, where they have denied the truth and would rather believe the lie

Psalm 19:7
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

 

[tranz4md]

Have you heard the recent accusation toward Kirk Cameron in a CNN interview about the subject of homosexuality?

Read it here...

Kirk Cameron under fire for Christian beliefs about homosexuality part 1 - Orlando Christian Living | Examiner.com

Kirk Cameron under fire for Christian beliefs about homosexuality part 2 - Orlando Christian Living | Examiner.com

God has plenty to say about this subject.

God bless!

 

[Cotjones]

I am not a hypocrit and I do not sin every day. I strive daily to please the LORD. I was a sinner, but now I am saved by grace.

If you read the word, you find that we are sinners until we are saved, and then we are called, the church, the body of Christ, Beloved, kings, saints and priests. The LORD no longer calls us sinners.

I am not a sinner, I am a child of the Living God, blood bought, sanctified, spirit filled believer. I am no longer termed a "sinner".

Paul speaking to the issue of "sinners" in Hebrews says... "as WERE some of you. Past tense. We are not sinners after being saved by grace.

You need to read a little bit more before you take on the position of judging the church of the Living God.

I fully challenge this notion. If you sin you ARE a sinner. And I believe you have sinned since you've been saved.

You are trying to mince words to justify an elitist view of sin. You say you are free of it but any man who says just because he got saved he is now free of sin is a liar, OH wait! There's another Sin.

Your elitism is yet again demonstrated here: "You need to read a little bit more before you take on the position of judging the church of the Living God." So now all the sudden your opinions are "the Church of the Living God" and mine are not?

Your thought process is clear to me my your words.

Thinking you are better than someone else is NOT in line with what Jesus taught.

Now argue with the Bible:

Romans 2:1-3 ESV

Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?

John 8:7 ESV

And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.”

James 1:26 ESV

If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless.

 

[Ronald]

Oh really? What about the New Testament verses 1 Corinthians 14:34, and 1 Timothy 2:12:

1 Corinthians 14:34: " Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says."

1 Timothy 2:12: "I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet."

In the context of 1Cor.14, the chapter was about spiritual gifts and speaking in tongues. Men or woman were recommended not to speak in tongues in a congregation unless there was one who could interpret tongues. Tongues is not another earthly spoken language, it is a spiritual heavenly language. Specifically about verse 34, woman are to be submissive to their husbands first and therefore if they have any questions should go to their husbands first and not blurt out every single thing that comes to their minds in church. Woman talk, talk, talk -- this is their nature, but church needs order. This whole chapter is about order in the church, when to speak and not to speak.
1 Tim. 2:12 is controversial to this day. Throughout history, God chose prophets, were they men? Yes. He chose kings, He chose disciples, He chose Adam to be in charge of Eve and the family as He choses men to be the spiritual leaders of their families. If men are spiritual leaders of their families, how could a woman be a spiritual leader in church over men? They can't and this rubs up against women and liberal movements or societal equal rights, bla, bla, bla ... tuff! Even Dr. Laura, says, "A woman cannot teach a boy how to be a man!" God has ordained man, (he wired him this way) for certain purposes. He wired women for certain purposes and specifically to be a helpmate of man.
I love Sarah Palin, but she is not equipped to be president, nor is any woman equipped to be a leader of any country on the planet. Sorry, but they aren't wired to handle this responsibility! And as we see throughout history, it is the case. Hilary Clinton has the knowledge but even she should not be in that possition dealing with Muslim countries who look upon women differently, hence, they don't respect her, being more strict with a womans place.
This has nothing to do with women teaching in schools or teaching other women in church. But the senior pastor should be male. The Catholic church believes this and most Protestant churches do as well. Spiritually, their is now no difference male or female, Jew or Gentile, but in this world, God has given us different tasks. Women have been struggling and fighting male domination since Adam and Eve got kicked out of the Garden: "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbirth, in pain you will bring forth children; yet your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."Gen.3:16 Tuff, that's the way He ordered it! When we are all resurrected at the last trumpet, then things will be equal.
As much as women desire men, they have rebelled against this rule. When a woman finally submits to this rule, WOW, MEN CAN KNOW PEACE IN THEIR HOMES!

By the way, your assertions about my beliefs on theistic evolution and political affiliation as a liberal are not correct, as well as irrelevant.

I apologize, it seemed you were comparing animals behavior with humans as if... but based on your whole premise of this topic and statements, they aren't conservative, they are liberal.

And by that new logic, the same thing goes for homosexual couples (If they cannot have kids, married homosexual couples can either adopt or not)

.
This proves my point, another liberal belief that goes against what the Bible teaches and what God has ordered.

God does not hate lying, he hates what lying does. So when lying brings justice, God does not hate lying.

Habitual lying for personal gain or pride is what God hates. I honestly do not think that lying to or deceiving Hitler to save peoples lives can be put in this category that God hates! It's like a thief and murderer breaks into your home and threatens your life, you give him all your money, then he asks you where is your wife and daughter ... you think well, I can't tell a lie, God wouldn't like that, so you tell them, my daughter should be home soon and my wife gets off work in one hour, so he waits to rape and kill them as you watch. Do you think anyone in their right mind would do that? Lying in this case the right thing to do. I'm sensing that your moral code is out of whack and you can figure the difference between whats right and wrong. ???

Some advice for you: Don't get caught up in this secular psycho-babble that they teach in Universities, it will derail you on your path of understanding the nature of man and about purpose and order in life. They miss a very important aspect of the behavior of man, because they leave God out of the equation and sin as well. The Bible is a much better manual to learn from guided by the Holy Spirit, revealing (in time and gradually) the truth of all things.