Is Homosexuality a Choice?

[JHM]

God gave man free will, and therefore "Homosexuality" is a choice; BUT it is a very BAD choice !!

 

[Jonathan95]

Habitual lying for personal gain or pride is what God hates. I honestly do not think that lying to or deceiving Hitler to save peoples lives can be put in this category that God hates! It's like a thief and murderer breaks into your home and threatens your life, you give him all your money, then he asks you where is your wife and daughter ... you think well, I can't tell a lie, God wouldn't like that, so you tell them, my daughter should be home soon and my wife gets off work in one hour, so he waits to rape and kill them as you watch. Do you think anyone in their right mind would do that? Lying in this case the right thing to do. I'm sensing that your moral code is out of whack and you can figure the difference between whats right and wrong. ???

Some advice for you: Don't get caught up in this secular psycho-babble that they teach in Universities, it will derail you on your path of understanding the nature of man and about purpose and order in life. They miss a very important aspect of the behavior of man, because they leave God out of the equation and sin as well. The Bible is a much better manual to learn from guided by the Holy Spirit, revealing (in time and gradually) the truth of all things.

Lying is never right, that isn't biblical.

 

[Jonathan95]

That still doesn't answer the question of what makes homosexuality not natural. The animal argument does not prove homosexuality is right. All it ever does is prove your lame argument that homosexuality is not natural wrong. All the animal argument says is homosexuality is natural. Not everything natural is right, and not everything natural is wrong. So you have still failed to answer the question of why homosexuality is wrong.

The Word of God says it's unnatural, that settles it. I've already gave verses proving it. Homosexuality is sin. A God who doesn't believe homosexuality is sin is a graven image.

Great, so we have established that there is some pride God hates, and some pride God doesn't. Therefore, God does not hate pride itself, but rather the motives for pride.

Is it biblical?

God does not hate lying, he hates what lying does. So when lying brings justice, God does not hate lying.

Is it biblical?

Proverbs 6:16-18
16 These six things the Lord hates, indeed, seven are an abomination to Him:
17 A proud look [the spirit that makes one overestimate himself and underestimate others], a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood

The end of your quoted verse says Love determines right and wrong. That's exactly what I have been trying to explain to you. Being proud of being a Christian is "a prideful look" that demonstrates a love of God. Lying to the Nazi's is "a lying tongue" that demonstrates a love for humanity. All God cares about is whether we do things because we love one another. There is not some behavior that he hates intrinsically.

Being proud of Jesus isn't sin, I've heard it's biblical.

 

[JHM]

@Jonathan95 :
Hmmm, what about "Irena Sendler" ? She was a Polish Catholic social worker who used various deceptive methods to save the lives of 500 Jewish adults, and 2500 Jewish children by smuggleing them out of the Warsaw Ghetto one and two at a time, thereby risking being tortured and murdered on over 1500 separate occasions.. Further she arranged places for them to live, and provided them with "FALSE IDENTIFICATION" documents so as to enable them to avoid being arrested. She also kept records of who these children really were in order that they might be reunited with any surviving relatives after the war was over.

And when she was finally caught and tortured by the Gestapo, she gave them NOTHING !!

Are you trying to say that what she did was wrong ??? I view her story as one of "Heroism Unparalleled In History" !!!

 

[SonOfTheWest]

It's somewhat odd the way these sort of threads inevitably have a trajectory towards whether or not homosexuality is a sin or not.(already said my piece on that) When the question was if it was a choice or not. Which is a different subject completely.

 

[JHM]

It's somewhat odd the way these sort of threads inevitably have a trajectory towards whether or not homosexuality is a sin or not.(already said my piece on that) When the question was if it was a choice or not. Which is a different subject completely.

If it were the "Normal" choice, the race would have died out a long time ago.

 

[Jonathan95]

@Jonathan95 :
Hmmm, what about "Irena Sendler" ? She was a Polish Catholic social worker who used various deceptive methods to save the lives of 500 Jewish adults, and 2500 Jewish children by smuggleing them out of the Warsaw Ghetto one and two at a time, thereby risking being tortured and murdered on over 1500 separate occasions.. Further she arranged places for them to live, and provided them with "FALSE IDENTIFICATION" documents so as to enable them to avoid being arrested. She also kept records of who these children really were in order that they might be reunited with any surviving relatives after the war was over.

And when she was finally caught and tortured by the Gestapo, she gave them NOTHING !!

Are you trying to say that what she did was wrong ??? I view her story as one of "Heroism Unparalleled In History" !!!

No I don't.

 

[hwyangel]

@Jonathan95 :
Hmmm, what about "Irena Sendler" ? She was a Polish Catholic social worker who used various deceptive methods to save the lives of 500 Jewish adults, and 2500 Jewish children by smuggleing them out of the Warsaw Ghetto one and two at a time, thereby risking being tortured and murdered on over 1500 separate occasions.. Further she arranged places for them to live, and provided them with "FALSE IDENTIFICATION" documents so as to enable them to avoid being arrested. She also kept records of who these children really were in order that they might be reunited with any surviving relatives after the war was over.

And when she was finally caught and tortured by the Gestapo, she gave them NOTHING !!

Are you trying to say that what she did was wrong ??? I view her story as one of "Heroism Unparalleled In History" !!!

1 Corinthians 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.

Ecclesiastics 12:14
For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

If we do not know the difference between good and evil, we can find ourselves justifying what is wicked and condemning what is righteous. Proverbs 17:15 tells us that will make us an abomination to God. This is serious business.

Bible Verses About Truth: 20 Great Scripture Quotes

I believe there is a difference between Gods truth and mans "truth".

 

[ivanthegood]

i hope so. God see our heart. and there is nothing Jesus detest more than people whose behaviours turn people away from Him. esp if they know that is what they are doing.

you can say all you want, given what i seen of your post here. i wont be surprised many gays are turned away from gospel as the result of you "way". of course, you say you are not judgemental. but it is also crystal clear you do not care whether the "way" you spread gospel is turning them away or. your fruit already reveals your intention.

btw, i am tired of going round and round with many of you. dont answer this one please.

it is between you and God.

like i said, God sees everything and we will all reap what we sow.

I'm sorry but do you realize that no man or woman can be saved until they REPENT! its impossible to be saved without repentance, so no matter how loving you present "your" gospel if the homosexual does not reconize he or she is living in sin, and does not repent first, there will be NO FORGIVENESS OF SINS, when there is no forgiveness of sins, there is no new spirit deposited, no regeneration, no salvation. if you sow a false gospel of no repentance, you will reap christians who think they are saved but will end up in hell because you cheated them of the truth. the truth is REPENT! and turn from a life of sin, deny yourself and follow Jesus, the love of God is waiting to forgive everyone of their sins, if they simply repent they will be forgiven, that is the gospel of love

 

[martyglo]

I fully challenge this notion. If you sin you ARE a sinner. And I believe you have sinned since you've been saved.

You are trying to mince words to justify an elitist view of sin. You say you are free of it but any man who says just because he got saved he is now free of sin is a liar, OH wait! There's another Sin.

Your elitism is yet again demonstrated here: "You need to read a little bit more before you take on the position of judging the church of the Living God." So now all the sudden your opinions are "the Church of the Living God" and mine are not?

Your thought process is clear to me my your words.

Thinking you are better than someone else is NOT in line with what Jesus taught.

Now argue with the Bible:

Romans 2:1-3 ESV

Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?

John 8:7 ESV

And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.”

James 1:26 ESV

If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless.

You missed my point. I do not sit around calling myself a sinner. But, I believe what the word says about me is true. Jesus called me into the light and calls me his child. He calls me redeemed.

You mentioned a verse where those who judge commit the same sin. I don't see that in my life. I said homosexuals who don't repent are judged by God and will see the result of that. His judgment. Not mine, and I'm not committing any sexual sins of any kind.

He said "for all "HAVE" sinned... if they say that is not so, then the truth is not in them". But, I never said I have not sinned past tense. Or that I was not a sinner before I got saved. I was, I chose sin every day. Now, I do not. I choose to get up everyday and believe and follow the word of God for my life. I am a born again Saint. Read the word....

There seems to be a few here that insist in pointing at others here, calling them sinnners, and seeking to find a splinter in their eye... but I am not one of them. I don't call other believers sinners at all. They are redeemed. If they are striving for the right and to please God, they are the church, the body of Christ. Doers of the word.

If you need to sit and accuse brethern daily of being sinners to keep them under some bondage to condemnation and guilt, that is you. I don't believe it, I don't give in to it, and I don't practice that. Your claims against me are false. I pray the LORD will open your eyes to the damage you try to do to others with your words.

You are judging. Accusing, and blaming. That is what the enemy does. Think about it.

BTW... your scriptures that you accused me with... ESV bible... NO.. I don't receive that.

2. Romans 2:1-3 says "Those of you who judge".... can you prove I have judged anyone? Who did I judge? You can read that I repeated the judgments of God to sin and those who refuse to repent. But, I myself have no judgment against them.

The word is clear, that those who judge others. I have not.

3. "Let those without sin cast the first stone." He was speaking to a whole bunch of unsaved people who were stoning to death someone caught in sin. That has nothing to do with me. I carry no stones. I speak what God has already set forth in His word concerning sin. Any sin.

4. The bridled tongue? I have bridled my tongue. I do so daily. THIS is a discussion forum. One would be hard pressed to discuss anything if they did not say anything. You have not bridled your tongue here. You cannot accuse what you do not know. You do not know in my walk daily with mankind, sinnners or saints if I do or do not bridle my tongue. You are grasping at straws to falsely accuse the brethern. You falsely accuse me.

 

[medieval_lady83]

Accusing someone of being judgmental is kind of hypocritical. Everyone on the planet makes judgements every day. We look at the world and people and we take things in, and we make evaluations. This is good. This is bad. This is pretty/ugly. This is funny/not funny. This is right/wrong. Human beings do this because we have brains and we think and use logic to form opinions. All of us do this. Christians, Atheists, Muslims, Agnostics. All of us. And many times, we look at someone else's behavior and decide that a given action is wrong.

If you were to say molesters are in sin, and I said molesters are in sin, we are both making a judgment about them. But I doubt you will accuse me of being judgmental. People only seem to accuse someone of being judgmental when they disagree with the judgment that's being made.

Atheists think Christians are judgmental, but don't Atheists think that some things are immoral too? Don't they think rapists are wrong for committing rape? Are they being judgmental for thinking so?

I believe the bible teaches that God sees all sins as equally bad (though I don't remember where exactly). And I admit, all of us need a savior. But human nature is such that certain things bother us more than others. For example, I disapprove of lying and gossip, but I loath, hate, utterly detest molestation, rape, and the murdering of innocent people. To God they are all sin, but as human beings we react differently. Some things just don't bother us as much. Can you imagine how ridiculous it would seem to us if we reacted to lying and gossip the same way we react to hearing about rape or the murder of innocent children? It would be so over the top. Can you imagine how seemingly innappropriate it would be if we reacted to murder and rape with the same laid back response that lying and gossip create?

Knowing that God sees all sin as equally bad, does not translate into human beings reacting to all sins the same. Our feelings are touched by different things in different ways. This is just the way our feelings work.

Parents lie to their children all the time, telling them there's an Easter bunny, Santa Clause, Tooth Fairy, etc when there really isn't. Many of us think this is wrong. But how do we feel when we hear that a parent has molested their child? It makes us much angrier. Is this hypocritical or judgmental of us? It is simple human nature. There is no cause for us to go around beating up on people for feeling the way they do towards certain issues, especially when everyone on the planet makes judgements.

 

[martyglo]

Have you heard the recent accusation toward Kirk Cameron in a CNN interview about the subject of homosexuality?

Read it here...God has plenty to say about this subject.

God bless!

I saw the interview with Piers Morgan. Kirk did well. He is articulate and clearly states the word of God without shirking back. He has compassion and love for his fellow man. His passion is the LORD, but his love is mankind. This man has brought the Word of God to the man on the street. He needs no large sports areana. One person at a time. Peace

 

[medieval_lady83]

Before you go around calling people judgmental, elitist, or unloving, you should ask yourself if you react to every sin the way God does, and do you have the same internal feelings towards every sin the way God does. If not, then you have no right to point out anyone else's reactions or feelings.

I fully challenge this notion. If you sin you ARE a sinner. And I believe you have sinned since you've been saved.

I challenge your notion. A sinner is someone who does not have salvation because they live a lifestyle of unrepentant sin.

Sinners will not inherit the kingdom of God. If Christians are still sinners because they make mistakes, sin, and ask God for forgiveness, then no one is going to heaven. Jesus did not save sinners so they could remain sinners still, and die and go to hell. What is the value of salvation if we become sinners all over again once we make a mistake.

Blessed is the man to whom God will not impute sin. That means when we sin, we are NOT sinners, because God is not imputing our sin to us. It has been punished in the body of Jesus Christ. Now, God is not mocked. We cannot deliberately, consistently, walk in a lifestyle of sin, and think that God's grace will cover that. Jesus did not die on the cross so we could have a license to sin. No. We should walk worthy of the high calling.

'Sinner' indicates our condition. As in being descended from Adam and born inherently sinful. Those who continue in their lifestyle of sin and reject Christ's sacrifice. Once you are saved you are born again you are a new creature in Christ. You are not still a sinner. Will God let sinners into heaven?

The question is not 'have you sinned since you have been saved?' Because even Peter sinned after receiving salvation, when he refused to eat with the Gentiles when the Jews were around. And Paul is constantly correcting the churches, telling them where they have messed up, and calling them to repent. But they are still believers. In the Christian life, we are learning as we go, and we make mistakes. Sometimes we deliberately sin. But we are forgiven if we repent.

See Romans 5:8 - But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

While we were still sinners.... That means we are no longer sinners. Before salvation we are sinners. After salvation we are NOT.

Also Romans 5:19 - For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Through Christ, we are made righteous. Not temporarily righteous, until we mess up and sin. But simply righteous.

We were made sinners because of Adam's sin, before we were even born, and hadn't committed one sin. Being a sinner vs. righteous is about our condition before God. We are no longer being evaluated on the merit system. We are being evaluated on 'have you accepted Christ or not?'

It is hard to understand, but we must trust what the bible says on this.

 

[Grace51]

I'm sorry but do you realize that no man or woman can be saved until they REPENT! its impossible to be saved without repentance, so no matter how loving you present "your" gospel if the homosexual does not reconize he or she is living in sin, and does not repent first, there will be NO FORGIVENESS OF SINS, when there is no forgiveness of sins, there is no new spirit deposited, no regeneration, no salvation. if you sow a false gospel of no repentance, you will reap christians who think they are saved but will end up in hell because you cheated them of the truth. the truth is REPENT! and turn from a life of sin, deny yourself and follow Jesus, the love of God is waiting to forgive everyone of their sins, if they simply repent they will be forgiven, that is the gospel of love

that is EXACTLY what i was trying to say. of course when i say 'turn to Christ' i meant repentance.

what makes you think i state over and over again that i do tell them it is a sin.

my point is not about them having no need for repentance

but i have consistently emphasize on the way we do it

being Christlike is central to when we spread the gospel

and from what i have seen here, many posters consistently tried to get around that by going round and round on the issue that gay lifestyle is a sin and they need to repent.

if you keep ignoring my Christlike message and trying to use the concept of repentance to justify your judgemental attitude towards gays.

then you are trying to abuse the scripture to justify you judgemental behaviours towards people you do not like.

and that is pure dispacable coming from a Christian.

how DARE you try to use scriputre as a weapon as a way to vent your dislike.

given your judgemental attitude, it is quite clear it is not gays eternal salvatioin that you care about. but the fact is you are ANGRY that they refuse to repent the moment you spread gospel with them.

guess what, God is patient with them, like He was patient with you and i in our non believers days when we resist His words.

like i said, if you are going to point fingers, than keep it to yourself. someone who is unrepentant about their own sins have no place point finger at other.

you need to mind your own business.

 

[Cotjones]

Before you go around calling people judgmental, elitist, or unloving, you should ask yourself if you react to every sin the way God does, and do you have the same internal feelings towards every sin the way God does. If not, then you have no right to point out anyone else's reactions or feelings.



I challenge your notion. A sinner is someone who does not have salvation because they live a lifestyle of unrepentant sin.

Sinners will not inherit the kingdom of God. If Christians are still sinners because they make mistakes, sin, and ask God for forgiveness, then no one is going to heaven. Jesus did not save sinners so they could remain sinners still, and die and go to hell. What is the value of salvation if we become sinners all over again once we make a mistake.

Blessed is the man to whom God will not impute sin. That means when we sin, we are NOT sinners, because God is not imputing our sin to us. It has been punished in the body of Jesus Christ. Now, God is not mocked. We cannot deliberately, consistently, walk in a lifestyle of sin, and think that God's grace will cover that. Jesus did not die on the cross so we could have a license to sin. No. We should walk worthy of the high calling.

'Sinner' indicates our condition. As in being descended from Adam and born inherently sinful. Those who continue in their lifestyle of sin and reject Christ's sacrifice. Once you are saved you are born again you are a new creature in Christ. You are not still a sinner. Will God let sinners into heaven?

The question is not 'have you sinned since you have been saved?' Because even Peter sinned after receiving salvation, when he refused to eat with the Gentiles when the Jews were around. And Paul is constantly correcting the churches, telling them where they have messed up, and calling them to repent. But they are still believers. In the Christian life, we are learning as we go, and we make mistakes. Sometimes we deliberately sin. But we are forgiven if we repent.

See Romans 5:8 - But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

While we were still sinners.... That means we are no longer sinners. Before salvation we are sinners. After salvation we are NOT.

Also Romans 5:19 - For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Through Christ, we are made righteous. Not temporarily righteous, until we mess up and sin. But simply righteous.

We were made sinners because of Adam's sin, before we were even born, and hadn't committed one sin. Being a sinner vs. righteous is about our condition before God. We are no longer being evaluated on the merit system. We are being evaluated on 'have you accepted Christ or not?'

It is hard to understand, but we must trust what the bible says on this.

Treating every sinner the way God does isn't our place, it's God's. We are told to not worry about other's sins and leave it to the Lord. I won't allow the argument to be twisted by you going off on tangents about nonsense. The argument here is that yes WE DO all sin, even those who are saved. Whether you believe that it's necessary to ask for forgiveness or not after you as a christian sin is your business. And NO the church in general does not approach the homosexual man in the way prescribed by Jesus and the Bible. Sure there are instances this may be true of all of us. It would be very difficult (for example) for me to speak to a man who murdered a child. Are we then to say that because it's sometimes difficult we shouldn't care about trying to fix it in an area like homosexuality in which potentially 10's of thousands have been damned who wouldn't have been if we had treated them differently?

There is a big distinction between calling someone a hypocrite as an argument to entice change and calling someone a hypocrite as a cop out to excuse your behavior.

 

[medieval_lady83]

Treating every sinner the way God does isn't our place, it's God's. We are told to not worry about other's sins and leave it to the Lord.

I didn't say anything about treating them the way God treats them. I was talking about an internal feeling. How do you feel about one sin over another sin. What is your personal reaction to it when you hear about it, verses how God feels about each sin. And actually, we should be treating sinners the way Jesus treated them...aren't we his disciples?

"I won't allow the argument to be twisted by you going off on tangents about nonsense. The argument here is that yes WE DO all sin, even those who are saved. Whether you believe that it's necessary to ask for forgiveness or not after you as a christian sin is your business. And NO the church in general does not approach the homosexual man in the way prescribed by Jesus and the Bible. Sure there are instances this may be true of all of us. It would be very difficult (for example) for me to speak to a man who murdered a child. Are we then to say that because it's sometimes difficult we shouldn't care about trying to fix it in an area like homosexuality in which potentially 10's of thousands have been damned who wouldn't have been if we had treated them differently?"

Just because you missed the point of my last comments doesn't mean they were off topic. *sigh*....You said that a person who sins is a sinner. My comment was providing support for my view that once you are saved you are no longer a sinner. That is not a tangent. It was a direct response to your comment.

There is a big distinction between calling someone a hypocrite as an argument to entice change and calling someone a hypocrite as a cop out to excuse your behavior.

To excuse my behavior? What behavior are you talking about? I do not mistreat homosexuals? If you think otherwise, you need to give me examples of how I have mistreated them.

It seems like you and other posters are assuming things about me before even knowing that they are true or not. I am no more judgmental than anyone else in the world (as I pointed out in my earlier post, we all judge everything and everyone in some way). And I do not mistreat homosexuals.

Again, If I have mistreated them, how? What is your definition of mistreating homosexuals?

 

[martyglo]

Treating every sinner the way God does isn't our place, it's God's. We are told to not worry about other's sins and leave it to the Lord. I won't allow the argument to be twisted by you going off on tangents about nonsense. The argument here is that yes WE DO all sin, even those who are saved. Whether you believe that it's necessary to ask for forgiveness or not after you as a christian sin is your business. And NO the church in general does not approach the homosexual man in the way prescribed by Jesus and the Bible. Sure there are instances this may be true of all of us. It would be very difficult (for example) for me to speak to a man who murdered a child. Are we then to say that because it's sometimes difficult we shouldn't care about trying to fix it in an area like homosexuality in which potentially 10's of thousands have been damned who wouldn't have been if we had treated them differently?

There is a big distinction between calling someone a hypocrite as an argument to entice change and calling someone a hypocrite as a cop out to excuse your behavior.

No, you are mistaken. The argument here is "Is Homosexuality a choice" per the OP of the topic. A few of you have come in to try to deflect from the topic by blaming the church, or the christian for the sin of the world. To accuse us, to falsely accuse us. To try to twist the situation around to appear that because we agree with the judgments of God as written in His word that somehow that makes us hypocrites or whatever.

I've just been saved long enough that I don't buy it. I know who I am in Christ, I know what He did for me. I know my worth based on the word of God and I don't even allow other Christians to tear me down or make me doubt who I am in Christ. He redeemed me by his very own blood. He set my feet upon the rock to eternity. I'm saved by grace, and a joint heir with Him for the Kingdom of God.

A few accusations by people in a discussion forum who don't know me, don't know where I came from, what I was delivered from, or where I am headed isn't going to change that.

And what you think of me, won't change what the world of God says about the topic of this discussion. Homosexuality is a choice, to sin or not sin is a choice, and when you reject the word of God and choose sin, you choose to bring the judgment of God on yourself for eternity.

For the people of God to speak this is only to agree with the judgment of God. No mor no less. We line ourselves up with God and what He says as truth. You judge us for that. So be it. I'm sure God is not shocked.

 

[medieval_lady83]

No, you are mistaken. The argument here is "Is Homosexuality a choice" per the OP of the topic. A few of you have come in to try to deflect from the topic by blaming the church, or the christian for the sin of the world. To accuse us, to falsely accuse us. To try to twist the situation around to appear that because we agree with the judgments of God as written in His word that somehow that makes us hypocrites or whatever.

I've just been saved long enough that I don't buy it. I know who I am in Christ, I know what He did for me. I know my worth based on the word of God and I don't even allow other Christians to tear me down or make me doubt who I am in Christ. He redeemed me by his very own blood. He set my feet upon the rock to eternity. I'm saved by grace, and a joint heir with Him for the Kingdom of God.

A few accusations by people in a discussion forum who don't know me, don't know where I came from, what I was delivered from, or where I am headed isn't going to change that.

And what you think of me, won't change what the world of God says about the topic of this discussion. Homosexuality is a choice, to sin or not sin is a choice, and when you reject the word of God and choose sin, you choose to bring the judgment of God on yourself for eternity.

For the people of God to speak this is only to agree with the judgment of God. No mor no less. We line ourselves up with God and what He says as truth. You judge us for that. So be it. I'm sure God is not shocked.

 

[medieval_lady83]

It's somewhat odd the way these sort of threads inevitably have a trajectory towards whether or not homosexuality is a sin or not.(already said my piece on that) When the question was if it was a choice or not. Which is a different subject completely.

In the case of this thread, the original poster doesn't actually believe it is a sin, so his comments stirred the conversation in that direction. He started off wanting to know people's views on whether or not it's a choice, and then used it as a spring board to promote his view that what's written in the bible about homosexuality was only relevant during the time it was written. Sort of a bait and switch if you ask me.

 

[Grace51]

I didn't say anything about treating them the way God treats them. I was talking about an internal feeling. How do you feel about one sin over another sin. What is your personal reaction to it when you hear about it, verses how God feels about each sin. And actually, we should be treating sinners the way Jesus treated them...aren't we his disciples?

"I won't allow the argument to be twisted by you going off on tangents about nonsense. The argument here is that yes WE DO all sin, even those who are saved. Whether you believe that it's necessary to ask for forgiveness or not after you as a christian sin is your business. And NO the church in general does not approach the homosexual man in the way prescribed by Jesus and the Bible. Sure there are instances this may be true of all of us. It would be very difficult (for example) for me to speak to a man who murdered a child. Are we then to say that because it's sometimes difficult we shouldn't care about trying to fix it in an area like homosexuality in which potentially 10's of thousands have been damned who wouldn't have been if we had treated them differently?"

Just because you missed the point of my last comments doesn't mean they were off topic. *sigh*....You said that a person who sins is a sinner. My comment was providing support for my view that once you are saved you are no longer a sinner. That is not a tangent. It was a direct response to your comment.



To excuse my behavior? What behavior are you talking about? I do not mistreat homosexuals? If you think otherwise, you need to give me examples of how I have mistreated them.

It seems like you and other posters are assuming things about me before even knowing that they are true or not. I am no more judgmental than anyone else in the world (as I pointed out in my earlier post, we all judge everything and everyone in some way). And I do not mistreat homosexuals.

Again, If I have mistreated them, how? What is your definition of mistreating homosexuals?

you ask for examples?

i have consistently give you one

that is your insistence to likn homo = pado

such accusation is serious, esp if you refuse again and agian to be fair on the issue and get your fact straights before you do.

furthermore you are still unable to provide a actual direct scripture passage that support such argument.

it is like i say i love one of my neighbours but i insist going around believing despite evidences to the contrary that they engage in beasility.

sure, i may not going around spread it deliberate ( as you claims), but that does not mean i wont share them if asked ( hence that is still slandering).

you have NO love for gays, if you do, you would not want to slander them in that manner.

you and the other woman continue to use homo = sin to justify your behaviour.

but you two consistently to twist above concept to counter my assertion we need to show them love etc etc

yet you two have the audacity to keep claim you are not mistreating them

yes you are, through sladndering, through twisting scripture to advocating unloving treatment of them

what disgust me the most is you two audacity to keep deny your hate for them, if you want to hate, at least be man enough and own up to it at least.

we can tell a person by their fruits. and you two fruits are there for everyone on this forums to see.