Immaculate Conception

[katerinah1947]

Hi,

Another way to look at The Immaculate Conception, is words from the Apparition at Lourdes:

Bernadette hurried off toward the presbytery, repeating the Lady's strange words, so as not to forget them. She met Fr. Peyramale and left him dumbfounded with the words "I am the Immaculate Conception"; he realised that the Lady had indeed answered his request for her name. Although the message of Lourdes was now complete, Bernadette again saw Mary on the Wednesday after Easter, April 7, remaining in an ecstasy for about three quarters of an hour.


Reference:


http://www.theotokos.org.uk/pages/approved/appariti/lourdes.html

Bernadette and Lourdes - 1858

​

The apparitions at Lourdes took place only four years after the proclamation of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception, in 1854, and given their nature it is only natural to see a strong link between the two.

On Thursday 11 February 1858, fourteen year old Bernadette Soubirous saw a beautiful young girl in a niche at a rocky outcrop called Massabielle, about a half mile outside the town. She was near a wild rose bush and surrounded by a brilliant light and a golden cloud, smiling, with her arms extended towards Bernadette, who took out her rosary beads.


LOVE,

Hi,

Another account from Lourdes:

http://www.catholicpilgrims.com/lourdes/bg_lourdes_conception.htm

LOVE,

 

[katerinah1947]

Hi,

Another way to look at The Immaculate Conception, is words from the Apparition at Lourdes:

Bernadette hurried off toward the presbytery, repeating the Lady's strange words, so as not to forget them. She met Fr. Peyramale and left him dumbfounded with the words "I am the Immaculate Conception"; he realised that the Lady had indeed answered his request for her name. Although the message of Lourdes was now complete, Bernadette again saw Mary on the Wednesday after Easter, April 7, remaining in an ecstasy for about three quarters of an hour.


Reference:


http://www.theotokos.org.uk/pages/approved/appariti/lourdes.html

Bernadette and Lourdes - 1858

​

The apparitions at Lourdes took place only four years after the proclamation of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception, in 1854, and given their nature it is only natural to see a strong link between the two.

On Thursday 11 February 1858, fourteen year old Bernadette Soubirous saw a beautiful young girl in a niche at a rocky outcrop called Massabielle, about a half mile outside the town. She was near a wild rose bush and surrounded by a brilliant light and a golden cloud, smiling, with her arms extended towards Bernadette, who took out her rosary beads.


LOVE,

Hi,

A historical account on The Determination of The Immaculate Conception from Dayton University:

http://campus.udayton.edu/mary/resources/kimmac.html

LOVE,

Hi,

Another account from Lourdes:

http://www.catholicpilgrims.com/lourdes/bg_lourdes_conception.htm

LOVE,

Of course I can and have, but for faithful devout RCs since autocratically presumes ensured perpetual (conditional) magisterial infallibility - which itself is a novel unScriptural presumption - then no amount of evidence can be allowed to warrant a guilty verdict. Scripture,tradition and history only mean what she says in any conflict.
Wrong. Inspiration signifies a special positive Divine influence and assistance by reason of which the human agent is not merely preserved from liability to error but is so guided and controlled that what he says or writes is truly the word of God, that God Himself is the principal author of the inspired utterance; but infallibility merely implies exemption from liability to error. God is not the author of a merely infallible, as He is of an inspired, utterance; the former remains a merely human document. - Catholic Encyclopedia>Infallibility[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]

Merely being correct is not the same thing as speaking the actual inspired word of God, which has a unique anointing.

For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. (Hebrews 4:4; cf. Gn. 2:2)

Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. (Hebrews 4:7)

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12)

Hi,

Some evidence from Lourdes.

LOVE,

 

[patricius79]

Of course I can and have, but for faithful devout RCs since autocratically presumes ensured perpetual (conditional) magisterial infallibility - which itself is a novel unScriptural presumption -

Where does the Bible say that?

How can one claim that the idea of a New Testament is Scriptural, but that the idea of a perpetual, infallible magisterium is not?

Christ founded a Church and promised to be with her always until the end of the age, and said "whoever listens to you, listens to me".

The Church preaches that our Queen is immaculately conceived.

 

[katerinah1947]

Where does the Bible say that?

How can one claim that the idea of a New Testament is Scriptural, but that the idea of a perpetual, infallible magisterium is not?

Christ founded a Church and promised to be with her always until the end of the age, and said "whoever listens to you, listens to me".

The Church preaches that our Queen is immaculately conceived.

Hi,

And then at Lourdes, it is confirmed but a few years later.

One validation, really means s lot.

That poor girl, did not even know what the words meant. The priest did.

LOVE,

 

[patricius79]

Hi,

And then at Lourdes, it is confirmed but a few years later.

One validation, really means s lot.

That poor girl, did not even know what the words meant. The priest did.

LOVE,

Yes, Our Lady of Lourdes it the Immaculate Conception. She is the Holy of Holies, where we find Jesus Christ.

 

[katerinah1947]

Hi,

I thought Holy of Holies was a place.

https://oca.org/saints/lives/2010/1...f-the-most-holy-mother-of-god-into-the-temple

I understand how you might be using the phrase, bring her womb.

Please explain if you would.

LOVE,

 

[patricius79]

Hi,

I thought Holy of Holies was a place.

https://oca.org/saints/lives/2010/1...f-the-most-holy-mother-of-god-into-the-temple

I understand how you might be using the phrase, bring her womb.

Please explain if you would.

LOVE,

One of my favorite books is by a doctor of the Church, St. Alphonsus Liguori. I believe he refers to Mary as the Holy of Holies. This makes sense because she is the place where God is. Her Immaculate Heart is the place where we find Jesus Christ. I think the Church is clear that Mary is the Ark of the Covenant and the Dwelling Place of God, which again would support all this.

 

[katerinah1947]

One of my favorite books is by a doctor of the Church, St. Alphonsus Liguori. I believe he refers to Mary as the Holy of Holies. This makes sense because she is the place where God is. Her Immaculate Heart is the place where we find Jesus Christ. I think the Church is clear that Mary is the Ark of the Covenant and the Dwelling Place of God, which again would support all this.

Hi,

I still understand the direction you are going.

If it can be said, it will be said.

I cannot say that, until I have that information, the way I have to have it.

Saint Alphonsus Liguori, is a place to start for me.

Did you see the definition of Holy of Holies, that hopefully, I provided for you?

LOVE,

 

[patricius79]

Hi,

I still understand the direction you are going.

If it can be said, it will be said.

I cannot say that, until I have that information, the way I have to have it.

Saint Alphonsus Liguori, is a place to start for me.

Did you see the definition of Holy of Holies, that hopefully, I provided for you?

LOVE,

Yes. Thank you.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

Hi,
I thought Holy of Holies was a place.
LOVE,

It is in Scripture, and by making Mary to be it then it makes Mary to be the place one obtains entrance to by the blood of Christ, versus Mary herself needing that access.

For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary. And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all; (Hebrews 9:2-3)

But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: (Hebrews 9:7-8)

And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost. And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom. (Mark 15:37-38)

Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having an high priest over the house of God; Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. (Hebrews 10:19-22)

The heresy of Making Mary to be the holy of holies is defended upon the premise that Christ as God resided in her womb, but which no more makes the womb of Mary the meeting place for souls to commune with God then it does the earth, even though, unlike with Mary's womb, men did commune with God in Christ on earih.

Instead, the holy of holies was in the heavenly temple while Mary was on earth, whom God created to be the vessel of His incarnation, but which no more required her to be sinless then it required her to have no physical defilement so that she would not to bathe, nor that the earth into which Christ came needed to be sinless.

RCs contend that somehow a sinless Mary came from sinful parents, but that Christ could not, but which is no more necessary than for the vessels who brought forth His pure word to men be sinless.

But when a church presumes the novel premise of ensured perpetual magisterial infallibility, which is unseen and unnecessary in Scripture to provide and preserve Truth, nor for the magisterium to have great authority, then a false church can autocratically decree what she wants.

But God has provided and preserved Truth and faith by raising up men from without the historical magisterium, which rejected them, and thus the church began and faith has been preserved.

 

[patricius79]

It is in Scripture, and by making Mary to be it then it makes Mary to be the place one obtains entrance to by the blood of Christ, versus Mary herself needing that access.

The holy creature, our Mother, the Immaculate Mary, both needs the grace of entering into Christ ("my spirit hath rejoiced in God my savior), and is our means--by Christ's grace--of entering into Christ. In her I find Christ. According to the Word of God, she is immaculately conceived and is the Ark of the Covenant. Maybe I'm mistaken to call her the Holy of Holies, though I thought I saw St. Alphonsus--a doctor of the Church--call her that. In any case, what I mean to say is that I find God, Jesus Christ, in the Mother of God.

 

[katerinah1947]

The holy creature, our Mother, the Immaculate Mary, both needs the grace of entering into Christ ("my spirit hath rejoiced in God my savior), and is our means--by Christ's grace--of entering into Christ. In her I find Christ. According to the Word of God, she is immaculately conceived and is the Ark of the Covenant. Maybe I'm mistaken to call her the Holy of Holies, though I thought I saw St. Alphonsus--a doctor of the Church--call her that. In any case, what I mean to say is that I find God, Jesus Christ, in the Mother of God.

Hi,

Here Here. ( An old phrase exclaiming the excellence, of Mary bringing people to Jesus.)

Sure she is not the only way to Jesus.

The Bible is.
Nature is.
God is.

However, she is extremely important.

Has anyone not come to her Son, once they encountered her?

Has anyone not.

Could Jesus exist, bodily, were it not for her? Yes.

God did not choose someone else. He chose her.

So, she is a part of God's plan for our salvation.

Than-you for loving her.

LOVE,

 

[patricius79]

Thanks, Katerinah. Yes, I think that Mary can be called the "Holy of Holies". I thought about it for a while. THe only thing is I've not heard Catholics call her this much. But she is definitely the Ark of the Covenant. So Holy of Holies would be a similar title, since it was the contents of the Ark which in some sense made the Holy of Holies holy. Of course I realize that it was God's presence which made the Holy of Holies Holy. This was the presence of God in the Glory Cloud which filled the Holy of Holies, just as the God the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary, His Spouse, and conceived Jesus Christ, our God. Both Christ and Mary are signified by the Ark of the Covenant, and Christ is in Mary, the Holy of Holies. Also, it is appropriate to call Mary the Holy of Holies because of her tremendous holiness. Though she is only a creature, she is the Mother of God the Son and Spouse of GOd the Holy Spirit and Daughter of God the Father. We can never understand the holiness of Mary, who is holier than all the rest of the saints. She is the Mediatrix of all graces. Every grace of union with Christ comes through her.