I hate Repent of your sins to be Saved. it is a false gospel, lie from the pit of hell

[Rsdar]

As I said in one of my previous posts. As an member of the evangelical church I was very much a faith alone advocate. Now some decades later and studying the subject of justification I lean more towards faith plus works as taught by the Catholic Church. I have tried to record all the Scriptures pertaining to justification and then see which argument faith alone vs faith plus works fits into all the Scriptures. In addition I'm reading or beginning to read books on the subject by both views. Namely The Drama of Salvation by Jimmy Aikin, Counted Righteousness in Christ by Piper and What did Paul really say by NT Wright. I'm interested to read all of them. Half way through Akins book.

 

[Light of the East]

Again let me ask you to read those scripture passages and tell me what Paul is literally saying.

You appear unwilling to read and understand scripture for yourself?

Of course I am unwilling to "read and understand for myself" when what you are asking me to understand defies that which was taught from the very beginning. As I said in another post in another thread, the CHURCH is the place where truth is found, not in our personal opinions. Personal reading and understanding of the Scriptures has led to the creation of thousands of churches with hundreds of different doctrines, all saying they have the "real truth" and all disagreeing with each other. Why would I want to follow such chaos when I have a clear and certain standard which I can read -- that which was taught from the very beginning.

 

[Light of the East]

faith alone for salvation is not some new strange doctrine, it is biblical reality. John 1:12, 3:15-16, 3:36 5:24 6:47 11:25-26 and scores of other scriptures too numerous to list. to deny faith alone salvation means you're trusting in your own merits rather than Jesus Christ alone. you have to deny the bible as final authority to argue against faith alone salvation because Christ said in John 6:47 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." to deny faith alone salvation, is to call Christ a liar.

The way that you believe in "faith alone" was not taught by the first Christian pastors, hence, it is not what the Scriptures are teaching. You are following a personal understanding of angry and disaffected X-Roman Catholics (Luther, Calvin, etc.). You cannot find this teaching for 1500 years until they invented it.

Or do you just believe that the same Fathers who opposed heresies such as Arianism, Monothelitism, Monophysitism, and Marcionism, were just plain old stupid?

 

[TPop]

Actually, I'm sort of in the middle of all this working on trying to figure it out. I have some ideas, but they are not widely accepted in the world of Christendom. For instance, I find myself in agreement with men such as St. Isaac of Syria and St. Gregory of Nineva who taught that God will bring all men to salvation. That would preclude "losing your salvation."

That would also preclude parts of revelation where names are blotted out or not found in the book.

On the other hand, I don't agree with those who have the idea that once you say a "Sinner's Prayer" (and, according to some, "mean it with your whole heart") that you cannot suffer a severe chastening if you turn back to your sin as a pig returns to the mud.

I do not like the 'sinner's prayer' either. It never covers the important things. It is usually filled with: Ask Jesus into your heart, Repent of your sins, etc. One does not pray to God for their initial salvation. They believe on Jesus. Then they start praying. Hopefully more and more over time as they fellowship with and learn God's will.

So, in reflecting this as I type, it seems to me that once you are put "in Christ" through baptism (Romans 6:3) that is unchangeable. You are part of the Kingdom. But if you willfully turn away from that act, then you are in for some serious pain down the road unless you repent.

Sin damages and breaks fellowship with God.
No man can pluck you out of Jesus hand. Not even we ourselves.
Analogies only go so far... I look at it like a 4, 6, 8 yr old, which is what we are at times, saying I am no longer their father. They cannot unmake our relationship or my legal, familial, or other connections. The child is mine.

Scripture says differently:

Psalm 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

If we partake of the divine nature, then we are gods. Not THE God. But gods, as children of the Father.

Are as 'if' gods. Directed to whom the word of God came to. The Jewish spirtiaul rulers. It was an acknowledge of their power and authority granted by God. And also a reminder that they could/would be judged just as mortals are. They had a higher responsibility. They were like gods to their people. But they would not escape judgement for their actions.

Jesus was saying that scripture cannot be set aside. So he reminded the Pharisees were as gods. Because they did not like what he said in John 10.30 Jesus says I and the Father are one. That makes Jesus a God sent by the Father. Not an earthly god given power by the Father/Jesus. He was correcting their thinking as they wanted to stone him. You are gods. I am God!

Read it also as Judges. As in we have the power and authority from God to judge. The Pharasees accused Jesus. Wanted to know his source. He told them that you yourselves are called gods.

You do not actually think there are other Gods do you? I don't think you do. But you are getting close whether you realize it or not.
Psa 82:1 A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

Judges among the Judges. There are more than one translation for the word. Be careful not to apply the Supreme God to men.

H430
אֱלֹהִים
'ĕlôhı̂ym
el-o-heem'
Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Total KJV occurrences: 2601

Jesus is the mediator of the New Covenant as the Great High Priest:

Hebrews 8: 6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Hebrews 12: 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

His mediation as Great High Priest is done for the Church as the corporate body, just as it was done in the Old Covenant at Yom Kippur.

And for individuals.
Rom_8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Actually, the word "eternal" doesn't appear in Scripture at all. Unless you are using corrupted Western texts which were translated by Roman Catholic Latin speaking translators who didn't know Greek.

Let's look at just one passage of the many you set out.

Luke 18: 18 18:18 Καὶ ἐπηρώτησέν τις αὐτὸν ἄρχων λέγων, Διδάσκαλε ἀγαθέ τί ποιήσας ζωὴν αἰώνιον κληρονομήσω

I put in bold red the word that is mistranslated "eternal" It is the Greek word "aionios" It means "of the age" or "age-lasting." The Greek word normally used for eternal is "adidios"

So not heaven is everlasting or eternal? Wow. I don't know what to say. Then we can be assured of nothing. Salvation comes and goes. Like the HS in the OT. And even if we have it, it means nothing as the age of salvation will come and go. Now there is an impossibility of anything of value, as all is fleeting. That is very sad. Talk about corrupted.

Luk_16:9 And IG2504 sayG3004 unto you,G5213 MakeG4160 to yourselvesG1438 friendsG5384 ofG1537 theG3588 mammonG3126 of unrighteousness;G93 that,G2443 whenG3752 ye fail,G1587 they may receiveG1209 youG5209 intoG1519 everlastingG166 habitations.G4633
Luk_18:30 WhoG3739 shall notG3364 receiveG618 manifold moreG4179 inG1722 thisG5129 present time,G2540 andG2532 inG1722 theG3588 worldG165 to comeG2064 lifeG2222 everlasting.G166

Well, being a Universalist myself, I would agree with that statement. I would, however, disagree that you can't in a sense "lose your salvation," the sense being that instead of instantly experiencing bliss and joy, those who have turned back to the sin will lose the rewards they might have had for a holy life and will experience chastening which will be painful in proportion to their sin.

Well, of course you can lose your salvation. And salvation means nothing anyways. It is just an age. Might only last for 20 minutes.
What rewards? We earn a reward, but that age of rewards only lasts months or years.
All is fleeting in your world. Nothing stands everlasting or eternally.
Hell is not forever, Neither can heaven be, then neither can God's love be. It is only for the Ages. Not permanent.
What is the point now? Automatons? You have just destroyed any reason for one to become a child of God.

Peace and Blessings

Peace and Blessings

 

[Guojing]

Of course I am unwilling to "read and understand for myself" when what you are asking me to understand defies that which was taught from the very beginning. As I said in another post in another thread, the CHURCH is the place where truth is found, not in our personal opinions. Personal reading and understanding of the Scriptures has led to the creation of thousands of churches with hundreds of different doctrines, all saying they have the "real truth" and all disagreeing with each other. Why would I want to follow such chaos when I have a clear and certain standard which I can read -- that which was taught from the very beginning.

I see. Interesting, I don't have any Christian friends in real life who are from Eastern Orthodox churches so I didn't realized that is how they form their doctrines. Thanks for sharing that view, which I learned something new today.

So even when there is holy scripture that is preserved by God to instruct us during this time, you would rather understand those passages from the perspective that is taught by your particular church.

Out of curiosity, you became a Christian and joined an Eastern Orthodox church immediately, or you were a Christian for sometime and only later on, you decided that that church is where you should be at?

 

[fhansen]

nope, repent of your sins is works according to Jonah 3:10. and we are not saved by works. Jesus did all the work, we just believe on him. Jesus paid it all

Achieving our repentance is part of Christ's work. The question is whether or not we'll go along with His work. 2 Pet 3:9 says God wants all to repent and be saved. 1 John 1 says Christ will purify us from all unrighteousness if we confess our sins. Conversion to the living God was always seen as a turning away from sin and the world, and turning to God. Rom 7 tells us that the law instructs us, convicting us of sin. That's so we'll have a change of heart, seeing that we're unable to overcome sin. Jesus is the answer! We overcome through Him.

 

[Light of the East]

That would also preclude parts of revelation where names are blotted out or not found in the book.

What happens after the names are blotted out of the book of life? They are cast into the Lake of Fire to be purged of their wickedness. To be in the Book of Life simply means that you avoid this painful experience, and you go into life.

Are as 'if' gods. Directed to whom the word of God came to. The Jewish spirtiaul rulers. It was an acknowledge of their power and authority granted by God. And also a reminder that they could/would be judged just as mortals are. They had a higher responsibility. They were like gods to their people. But they would not escape judgement for their actions.

Jesus was saying that scripture cannot be set aside. So he reminded the Pharisees were as gods. Because they did not like what he said in John 10.30 Jesus says I and the Father are one. That makes Jesus a God sent by the Father. Not an earthly god given power by the Father/Jesus. He was correcting their thinking as they wanted to stone him. You are gods. I am God!

Read it also as Judges. As in we have the power and authority from God to judge. The Pharasees accused Jesus. Wanted to know his source. He told them that you yourselves are called gods.

You do not actually think there are other Gods do you? I don't think you do. But you are getting close whether you realize it or not.
Psa 82:1 A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

We are to become gods. Not THE God, for no one could be in essence what God is. There is but one God - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, the Trinity. But the purpose of man's creation was that man would grow into godlikeness and therefore be able to share in the divine love which exists between the members of the Trinity. We were created for love, but in order to be able to handle such a thing, we must grow into holiness.

St. Peter speaks of us being made "partakers of the divine nature." Stop and ponder that for a moment. If we were just to be dirtbugs for all eternity, to what purpose would God place the divine nature in us?

So not heaven is everlasting or eternal? Wow. I don't know what to say. Then we can be assured of nothing. Salvation comes and goes. Like the HS in the OT. And even if we have it, it means nothing as the age of salvation will come and go. Now there is an impossibility of anything of value, as all is fleeting. That is very sad. Talk about corrupted.

There is no such place as heaven, nor is there such a place as hell. There is simply God and His Kingdom. I don't get how you think that the assurance that God will ultimately save all somehow removes assurance? That is odd to me. It seems you should think just the opposite, that knowing that God has a plan to save all - some in this life and the majority after death through the painful process of purging of our sins - that this would not only be an assurance, but would give great comfort and joy, especially if you have family members who, after repeatedly being witnessed to, want nothing to do with Christ.

But . . . I guess since you are assured of your own personal salvation, the salvation of the rest of the world . . . meaaaaaah, who cares? Millions (billions?) of people have lived and died and never heard of Christ, the Gospel, or the Bible. No problem. They're sinners and they deserve hell, right? You just got lucky and were born in a place where you could hear of Christ and have faith.

Luk_16:9 And IG2504 sayG3004 unto you,G5213 MakeG4160 to yourselvesG1438 friendsG5384 ofG1537 theG3588 mammonG3126 of unrighteousness;G93 that,G2443 whenG3752 ye fail,G1587 they may receiveG1209 youG5209 intoG1519 everlastingG166 habitations.G4633
Luk_18:30 WhoG3739 shall notG3364 receiveG618 manifold moreG4179 inG1722 thisG5129 present time,G2540 andG2532 inG1722 theG3588 worldG165 to comeG2064 lifeG2222 everlasting.G166

You can throw all the corrupted modern Greek texts and concordance definitions at me you wish. It does not change the fact. Aionios means "age-lasting." I don't even have to be a Greek scholar to understand this. Look at the etymology of the word. The root is "aion" and aion always means "age," therefore, "aionios" as a derivative of this root word simply cannot mean "eternal" or "everlasting."

Hell was invented by Roman Catholic clergy to keep the peasants in line through fear. The majority of people before the printing press and education were illiterate, stupid, and bestial. Study their behavior throughout Christian history and you will see what the clergy and hierarchy had to deal with. Fear of hell makes good little Catholics.

When Jesus speaks of "age-lasting correction" (Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into age-lasting correction, but the righteous into age-lasting life.) He is limiting His speech only to that which will happen in the next age. So we see that the correction of the wicked in the fires of God's corrective love (which they will experience as hell, according to St. Isaac of Syria) will last for an entire age. After that, we have no clue, as the Revelation of John speaks of "ages of ages" which are yet to come.

Of course, as Dr. David Bentley Hart says, this is a great discouragement to people because they like to think of themselves as being special people in a special class - they "accepted Jesus" and thus they are, at least in their subconscious, better than all those scruffy sinners of whom it is fun to look down upon and know that they are better than them. I'm not saying necessarily that YOU think that way. Perhaps you go out and try to convert people regularly, caring deeply for their eternal welfare. Bravo! I'm just saying that there are people who think that way, and the idea of letting sinners in to eternal life *gasp* that's a pearl-clutching moment for them to think of such a thing.

Well, of course you can lose your salvation. And salvation means nothing anyways. It is just an age. Might only last for 20 minutes.
What rewards? We earn a reward, but that age of rewards only lasts months or years.
All is fleeting in your world. Nothing stands everlasting or eternally.
Hell is not forever, Neither can heaven be, then neither can God's love be. It is only for the Ages. Not permanent.
What is the point now? Automatons? You have just destroyed any reason for one to become a child of God.

So entering into the love of God is no reason to come to Him? So eschewing sin in this life is no reason for salvation? Do you like the world we live in now? Do you think that if people really were converted and began to live like Christ we might not have wars, murders, child-trafficking, prostitution, inappropriate contentography, wife-beaters, and drugged out homeless lying in the streets? Do you get what I am saying? You have an entirely wrong view of why people need to turn to Christ. We were made for union with God. That is what we should be striving for in this life, both for ourselves and all those who are in deep pain from the slavery of sin.

 

[Light of the East]

I see. Interesting, I don't have any Christian friends in real life who are from Eastern Orthodox churches so I didn't realized that is how they form their doctrines. Thanks for sharing that view, which I learned something new today.

Here is some thought. For the first 400 years of the Christian faith, there was no Bible. The Christian faith was something entirely new and different from Judaism. Yes, it was a fulfillment of that which Judaism promised, but there were things that had to be worked out in it. Now who would be the person(s) to define and teach this new faith?

The Apostles.

They discipled the next generation of men who would lead the Church. The promise of Christ was that He would lead them into "all truth." The leadership of the Church was passed down from generation to generation by what is known as "Apostolic Succession." These same men, the bishops of the Church, had to deal with many heresies that arose, some of which would have destroyed the Christian faith by undermining the very foundation of that faith. They had to deal with Arianism, Monothelitism, Monophysitism, Gnosticism, and Marcionism, among many. To do this, they convened councils in which they discussed the writings they had from St. Paul and the other Apostles. They prayed, reasoned, and come to conclusions which guide the Church today. If you believe that our Lord Jesus Christ is God incarnate, then you owe that faith to them and the work they did at the Council of Nicea.

(An interesting sidelight: The heretic Arias was the first one to proclaim "Sola Scriptura." He defended the idea that Christ was merely a created being from scripture alone.

So even when there is holy scripture that is preserved by God to instruct us during this time, you would rather understand those passages from the perspective that is taught by your particular church.

It is not "my particular church." It is THE Church. Now, how do I make such a bold statement. Simply because only the Orthodox Church teaches and preserves that which was taught from the very beginning. When any assembly begins to teach things that are additions to the faith "once delivered to the saints" (Jude1:3) then they have separated themselves from the Church and are no longer part of it. Our Lord Himself said this:

Matthew 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Did you get that? The Church, and not our own private interpretations, is the final arbiter of truth. If the Church speaks, I must be obedient to the Church. We see where private interpretation of Scripture has gotten us in the world - thousands of denominations with hundreds of differing dogmas, all disagreeing with each other yet all claiming to be led of the Holy Spirit. Is the Holy Spirit that schizophrenic?

Out of curiosity, you became a Christian and joined an Eastern Orthodox church immediately, or you were a Christian for some time and only later on, you decided that that church is where you should be at?

I have been a Christian since my baptism as an infant, but my parents never raised me in the faith nor took it particularly seriously, therefore, I fell away in high school. I was brought back to the faith by a neo-Pentecostal street preacher who was working with drug addicts. I stayed there for four years, then gravitated to Bob Jones Anabaptist Fundamentalism for twelve years. After that, a friend convinced me that the Calvinists were correct, so I was in the PCA for thirteen years.

In 1997 I encountered an online group of Roman Catholics who really knew what they believed and why (as opposed to the vast majority of Catholics who didn't know Genesis from Jude) and after two years of lively debate online, I converted to the Byzantine Catholic Church. The BCC is an interesting anomaly. They like to say they are "Orthodox in Communion with Rome," but the fact of the matter is that they are much more Roman Catholic than Orthodox. Nonetheless, there are people in the BCC who really love Orthodox priests, Orthodox books, and the Orthodox radio program called "Ancient Faith Radio." After 21 years in the BCC, I couldn't resolve the conflict in my mind of trying to be Orthodox in what is, nonetheless, a Catholic assembly, so I converted to the Orthodox faith in 2022.


Part of the reason I did this was being in forums like this where "iron sharpens iron" and beliefs are discussed and challenged. In my studies I found that only in Orthodoxy do you find the same things that the Apostles taught to the Apostolic and Ante-Nicene Fathers. Many people like me have converted for the same reason I did - fidelity to that which was taught in the beginning.

Thanks for asking.

 

[Riot42]

Is salvation your only concern? Is your relationship with God only about you being saved and escaping the price of your sins?

If the answer is yes, I would argue you are not saved because you have no relationship with the Lord and are using him as an insurance policy, not Lord and savior. Remember, Jesus said many will say "LORD! LORD! and he will say he did not know them. How do we know them? Judge them by their fruits.

Salvation is the first gift of a relationship with Christ, you are correct that works and repentance are not needed for salvation because salvation is needed for works and repentance. Thats the piece you are missing here, works and repentance FOLLOW true salvation. They are the good fruit, the PROOF you are actually saved and following the gospels. If you have no works and you have no repentance you are not a new person born in Christ and the lack of works and repentance is proof.

Repentance and resistance of sin brings us closer to God. Right here, right now we can experience the holy spirit moving in our life, and this comes from our repentance, this comes from our works. If we have the holy spirit dwelling within us and live in habitual sin we are grieving the holy spirit, how could we possibly claim he resides within us if we do not feel convicted enough of our sins to repent?

In the sermon on the mound Jesus told us “Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

Therefore we know as a matter of fact there will be a "Least of us" in heaven. The last will go first and the first will go last further alludes to this. There is a hiarchy in heaven and I dunno about you but id rather not get the room next to the noisy ice machine for all eternity. (bonus points if you get that reference)

So if you respond to me, would you kindly answer the question "Is salvation your only concern?"

 

[Light of the East]

Is salvation your only concern? Is your relationship with God only about you being saved and escaping the price of your sins?

If the answer is yes, I would argue you are not saved because you have no relationship with the Lord and are using him as an insurance policy, not Lord and savior. Remember, Jesus said many will say "LORD! LORD! and he will say he did not know them. How do we know them? Judge them by their fruits.

Salvation is the first gift of a relationship with Christ, you are correct that works and repentance are not needed for salvation because salvation is needed for works and repentance. Thats the piece you are missing here, works and repentance FOLLOW true salvation. They are the good fruit, the PROOF you are actually saved and following the gospels. If you have no works and you have no repentance you are not a new person born in Christ and the lack of works and repentance is proof.

Repentance and resistance of sin brings us closer to God. Right here, right now we can experience the holy spirit moving in our life, and this comes from our repentance, this comes from our works. If we have the holy spirit dwelling within us and live in habitual sin we are grieving the holy spirit, how could we possibly claim he resides within us if we do not feel convicted enough of our sins to repent?

In the sermon on the mound Jesus told us “Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

Therefore we know as a matter of fact there will be a "Least of us" in heaven. The last will go first and the first will go last further alludes to this. There is a hiarchy in heaven and I dunno about you but id rather not get the room next to the noisy ice machine for all eternity. (bonus points if you get that reference)

So if you respond to me, would you kindly answer the question "Is salvation your only concern?"

Matthew 19:25
When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? (I fail to see Jesus asking the disciples "Is salvation your only concern?)

Mark 10:26 And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved? (Same thing. Where's the condemnation of this narrow question?)

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? (Hmmmmm . . . where is the rebuke to this person that salvation is his only concern?)

Do you want me to list more, or did I make my point? Absolutely salvation is my main concern. After being saved from my sin, then I am concerned with working on developing an increasing relationship with Christ.

And BTW - I find people like you, who feel you have the right to make judgments on the salvation of others, to be highly arrogant. God alone determines my salvation, not you and not what you think about what I say.

 

[Riot42]

Matthew 19:25
When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? (I fail to see Jesus asking the disciples "Is salvation your only concern?)

Mark 10:26 And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved? (Same thing. Where's the condemnation of this narrow question?)

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? (Hmmmmm . . . where is the rebuke to this person that salvation is his only concern?)

Do you want me to list more, or did I make my point? Absolutely salvation is my main concern. After being saved from my sin, then I am concerned with working on developing an increasing relationship with Christ.

And BTW - I find people like you, who feel you have the right to make judgments on the salvation of others, to be highly arrogant. God alone determines my salvation, not you and not what you think about what I say.

I was not responding to you and I did not quote you, I was responding to the OP.

I didnt ask if it was his MAIN concern, I asked if it was his only concern. If salvation is someone's ONLY concern they are looking for an insurance policy, not a relationship with GOD.

 

[BNR32FAN]

faith alone for salvation is not some new strange doctrine, it is biblical reality. John 1:12, 3:15-16, 3:36 5:24 6:47 11:25-26 and scores of other scriptures too numerous to list. to deny faith alone salvation means you're trusting in your own merits rather than Jesus Christ alone. you have to deny the bible as final authority to argue against faith alone salvation because Christ said in John 6:47 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." to deny faith alone salvation, is to call Christ a liar.

You never address any of the scriptures that are presented as evidence against your theology. Why is that? Whats the purpose of this thread? Is it to prove to everyone that your theology is correct? The only way you can do that is explaining how your theology lines up with ALL SCRIPTURE, not just the bits and pieces you choose to discuss. If you’re not willing to even try to explain how other passages don’t contradict your theology then you shouldn’t even start a discussion about it. I posted 6 posts asking you to explain passages of scripture that refute your theology and you didn’t address a single one of them. Furthermore numerous other people have done the same and you declined to comment on any of them. Why do you turn a blind eye to the verses that refute your theology? These verses are just as much a part of God’s word as the verses you quote and you’ll never understand the word of God by holding to beliefs that are contrary to verses contained in the Bible.

 

[Halbhh]

faith alone for salvation is not some new strange doctrine, it is biblical reality. John 1:12, 3:15-16, 3:36 5:24 6:47 11:25-26 and scores of other scriptures too numerous to list. to deny faith alone salvation means you're trusting in your own merits rather than Jesus Christ alone. you have to deny the bible as final authority to argue against faith alone salvation because Christ said in John 6:47 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." to deny faith alone salvation, is to call Christ a liar.

Without repentance, it's evident a person doesn't have faith in all Christ is.

To 'repent' means to admit to God that you have sinned, and want to be cleansed/freed of those sins, and this implies you need redemption/cleansing from your sins. To believe in Christ means both to believe He is the Son of God and risen and also to believe that He can redeem/save you from the just outcome (death) from your sins.

Matthew 4:17 - Jesus Begins His Ministry

From that time on Jesus began to preach, Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.

biblehub.com

 

[BNR32FAN]

Christ said in John 6:47 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." to deny faith alone salvation, is to call Christ a liar.

Jesus said in John 15:6 “If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.” To deny that one of the 11 faithful apostles were capable of denying Christ resulting in condemnation is calling Christ a liar.

 

[Light of the East]

I was not responding to you and I did not quote you, I was responding to the OP.

I didnt ask if it was his MAIN concern, I asked if it was his only concern. If salvation is someone's ONLY concern they are looking for an insurance policy, not a relationship with GOD.

Okay. I understand. I still feel that judging someone's salvation should be left to God alone.

Do you think it is possible that a person can have such a conviction of sin that salvation from sin is initially that person's only concern, but as they grow, they begin to understand relationship?

 

[BNR32FAN]

I was not responding to you and I did not quote you, I was responding to the OP.

I didnt ask if it was his MAIN concern, I asked if it was his only concern. If salvation is someone's ONLY concern they are looking for an insurance policy, not a relationship with GOD.

I think for lot of people initially come to Christ out of fear especially if they’re getting up in age or maybe they have a serious illness and they begin to realize that they might not have much time left. Typically from what I’ve seen the relationship doesn’t come until later in their walk with Christ. For me, I came to Christ because I was very lonely and I feared that if I didn’t change my life soon I was going to be destined to die alone with no family or children. I didn’t initially come to Christ because I was seeking a relationship, I came to Him because I was scared & lonely and I wanted His help. Early in my walk with Him I was plagued with thoughts of doubt and I didn’t feel any love for God despite desperately wanting to. After I guess a year or so I began to think maybe I do actually love Him because I feel so distraught about not loving Him, if that makes any sense. I figured that if I didn’t actually love Him I wouldn’t feel so distraught about it. Over time my love for Him grew and now I have no doubt at all about it. God chose to use both fear and love to motivate people to turn to Him. Probably because He knew that different people at different times require different motivation.

 

[TPop]

...
Actually, the word "eternal" doesn't appear in Scripture at all. Unless you are using corrupted Western texts which were translated by Roman Catholic Latin speaking translators who didn't know Greek.

Let's look at just one passage of the many you set out.

Luke 18: 18 18:18 Καὶ ἐπηρώτησέν τις αὐτὸν ἄρχων λέγων, Διδάσκαλε ἀγαθέ τί ποιήσας ζωὴν αἰώνιον κληρονομήσω

I put in bold red the word that is mistranslated "eternal" It is the Greek word "aionios" It means "of the age" or "age-lasting." The Greek word normally used for eternal is "adidios"

Roman Catholic Latin speakers? For the Apocrypha? The translators of the KJ were multi-lingual and they did not translate from Latin for the NT, they translated from Greek and some Aramaic. One would have to know Greek and Aramaic and English to be a translator from Greek and Aramaic to English.

Hebrew uses Olam which can mean a long period of time or eternity/forever. Infinite or Finite. Its main uses are eternal, everlasting, perpetual, without end. Context dictates. We use context to correctly exegete the passages.

For example, when being used to indicate a finite but long age, olam is usually prefixed with a mem (the Hebrew equivalent of the letter “M”) acting as the abbreviated form of the preposition “from.”

Conversely, when olam lacks the mem prefix, it is almost always translated as “everlasting, eternal, forever,” or some equivalent.

In many cases, to emphasize that eternity is in view (as opposed to a long but finite period of time), olam is prefixed with a lamed (the Hebrew equivalent of the letter “L”) which generally has the meaning of “to” or “for.”

Additionally, the biblical text sometimes adds a word either before or after olam to emphasize that eternity is in view. When the word “ad” (often meaning “while” or “until”) is placed before olam (עַד־עוֹלָֽם) it is always translated as “forever”

Alternatively, a similar word (עֶֽד) can be added after olam, to emphasize an eternal duration. This word (עֶֽד) by itself means “forever” and so its addition to olam reinforces the fact that eternity is in view. The compound phrase (עוֹלָ֥ם וָעֶֽד) is used 15 times in the Old Testament and is always translated into English as “forever and ever”

Through Olam we can see that the OT and NT match in their context for Eternal for such as Hell and Heaven.

linguistic relativism. It is the error of asserting that words can mean different things when applied to different people. Such a claim would make communication impossible because we could never know if the speaker/writer is using the words in the same way as the hearer/reader.


“Eternal” is part of the semantic range of αἰώνιον.

Most words have multiple dictionary definitions. We cannot just choose any one of those definitions. Sentence context determines which meaning of the word is in use – not preferences.

165

αἰών
aiōn
ahee-ohn'
From the same as G104; properly an age; by extension perpetuity (also past); by implication the world; specifically (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future): - age, course, eternal, (for) ever (-more), [n-]ever, (beginning of the, while the) world (began, without end). Compare G5550.
Total KJV occurrences: 128

166
αἰώνιος
aiōnios
ahee-o'-nee-os
From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).
Total KJV occurrences: 71

The Greek adjective αἰώνιον when used of future time always denotes “eternal” or “forever.” E.g. Both Heaven and Hell are Eternal. Never ending. If Hell is not never-ending, then neither is Heaven as the same greek word is used. And context says we are not talking about an age that has an end to it.

Is God not Eternal? Not Everlasting?
Rom 16:26 ButG1161 nowG3568 is made manifest,G5319 andG5037 byG1223 the scripturesG1124 of the prophets,G4397 accordingG2596 to the commandmentG2003 of theG3588 everlastingG166 God,G2316 made knownG1107 toG1519 allG3956 nationsG1484 forG1519 the obedienceG5218 of faith:G4102

If God is Everlasting, why would he give us finite salvation? There is no time span given. Just an age?. Nothing like you will have salvation for 400 years, 7 generations, or other.
Mat 19:29 AndG2532 every oneG3956 thatG3739 hath forsakenG863 houses,G3614 orG2228 brethren,G80 orG2228 sisters,G79 orG2228 father,G3962 orG2228 mother,G3384 orG2228 wife,G1135 orG2228 children,G5043 orG2228 lands,G68 for my name's sake,G1752 G3450 G3686 shall receiveG2983 an hundredfold,G1542 andG2532 shall inheritG2816 everlastingG166 life.G2222

Joh 5:24 Verily,G281 verily,G281 I sayG3004 unto you,G5213 (G3754) He that hearethG191 myG3450 word,G3056 andG2532 believethG4100 on him that sentG3992 me,G3165 hathG2192 everlastingG166 life,G2222 andG2532 shall notG3756 comeG2064 intoG1519 condemnation;G2920 butG235 is passedG3327 fromG1537 deathG2288 untoG1519 life.G2222

Is it because you do not believe Hell is Eternal?
Mat 25:41 ThenG5119 shall he sayG2046 alsoG2532 unto themG3588 onG1537 the left hand,G2176 DepartG4198 fromG575 me,G1700 ye cursed,G2672 intoG1519 everlastingG166 fire,G4442 preparedG2090 for theG3588 devilG1228 andG2532 hisG846 angels:G32

Similar to the Hebrew word olam, aion means “age” either of finite or infinite duration. So, it can mean forever, eternity, or age, depending on context.

Great for both finite and infinite.

2Co 4:18 While weG2257 look not atG4648 G3361 the things which are seen,G991 butG235 at the things which are not seen:G991 G3361 forG1063 the things which are seenG991 are temporal;G4340 butG1161 the things which are not seenG991 G3361 are eternal.G166

Mar 3:29 ButG1161 heG3739 G302 that shall blasphemeG987 againstG1519 theG3588 HolyG40 GhostG4151 hathG2192 never forgiveness,G3756 G859 G1519 G165 butG235 isG2076 in dangerG1777 of eternalG166 damnation:G2920

Matthew and Daniell are in accord with Eternal.
Mat 25:46 AndG2532 theseG3778 shall go awayG565 intoG1519 everlastingG166 punishment:G2851 butG1161 theG3588 righteousG1342 intoG1519 lifeG2222 eternal.G166
Dan 12:2 And manyH7227 of them that sleepH4480 H3463 in the dustH6083 of the earthH127 shall awake,H6974 someH428 to everlastingH5769 life,H2416 and someH428 to shameH2781 and everlastingH5769 contempt.H1860

If “Eternal” or "Everlasting" is not part of the semantic range of αἰώνιον Then your corrupted eastern text is saying the same about God. He is not eternal. Hell is not eternal. Heaven is not eternal.

God has no ending. But only God has no beginning.
Everything else has a beginning. But some things have no ending. Salvation and Hell are two of those.
When talking about things in the past. It may not mean eternal.
But age, ages, age long, etc. is never used when referencing a finite duration of the future time in the NT.

Peace and Blessings.

Peace and Blessings

 

[BNR32FAN]

Achieving our repentance is part of Christ's work. The question is whether or not we'll go along with His work. 2 Pet 3:9 says God wants all to repent and be saved. 1 John 1 says Christ will purify us from all unrighteousness if we confess our sins. Conversion to the living God was always seen as a turning away from sin and the world, and turning to God. Rom 7 tells us that the law instructs us, convicting us of sin. That's so we'll have a change of heart, seeing that we're unable to overcome sin. Jesus is the answer! We overcome through Him.

If you click on his name and look at his posts this guy doesn’t ever address the verses that refute his theology, he just ignores them. He doesn’t even attempt to address them. He’s what you call a “drive by preacher” where he shouts a bunch of Bible verses then disappears from the discussion.

 

[simplefaith]

I think sometimes we do not relate what is written to our practical experiences. If the Holy Spirit comes upon someone and opens their eyes to their true self, and the life they have led, it would seem the most natural thing in the world to me for a person to then tell God they are sorry for how they have lived their life.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Roman Catholic Latin speakers? For the Apocrypha? The translators of the KJ were multi-lingual and they did not translate from Latin for the NT, they translated from Greek and some Aramaic. One would have to know Greek and Aramaic and English to be a translator from Greek and Aramaic to English.

The New Testament in the KJV was translated mostly from the Textus Receptus which was written in Latin.