How many people do you think will be born in the millennial kingdom?

[Spiritual Jew]

Show you where Adam's dead corruptible flesh lives on in heaven and earth?

Surely you don't think sin and death continue forever? Where is the verse that claims it all ends?

How do you interpret Daniel 9:24 with sin, evil, wickedness, and death still rampant on the earth?

Was my question too difficult? I'm asking you to show where what you said in your post is taught in scripture. Any of it. You can start by showing where it indicates that "Any disobedience will be immediate instant death" during the supposed future Millennium. Again, good luck.

 

[ValeriyK2022]

Show you where Adam's dead corruptible flesh lives on in heaven and earth?

Surely you don't think sin and death continue forever? Where is the verse that claims it all ends?

How do you interpret Daniel 9:24 with sin, evil, wickedness, and death still rampant on the earth?

(Rev. 21:1-8)

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I would challenge you on your statement “the immorality of gay people” and I would say unequivocally that not only a belief that gay people are intrinsically any more immoral than anyone else should be “relaxed”, it ought to be eliminated.

Gay people are no more intrinsically immoral that straight people.

Being gay is not immoral.
It what your DO that determines morality, not who you are.

But are they lusting after people of the same gender? That would be immoral and would be similar to how Jesus said that if anyone is lusting after someone else that isn't their spouse then they are committing adultery (Matt 5:28). It's not only what you do that determines morality, as Jesus indicated in the example I gave as well as when He said that hating someone makes you a murderer (1 John 3:15).

Being attracted to the same sex is not something gay people can control any more that I can control the fact that as a straight guy, I’m attracted to the opposite sex.

This directly contradicts what Paul wrote here:

Romans 1:26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Paul indicated that to be attracted to someone of the opposite sex is unnatural, so for you to say they don't have any control over that contradicts what Paul indicated. If they have no control over being gay and being attracted to the same sex then it would be natural for them to be gay, but Paul indicated that it is unnatural for that to be the case.

 

[parousia70]

You are redefining being "gay."

​

Not according to Webster:​

gay​

adjective​

ˈgā

1 of, relating to, or characterized by sexual or romantic attraction to people of one's same sex

 

[dwb001]

To the OP... most likely not.

 

[Sorn]

If they have no control over being gay and being attracted to the same sex then it would be natural for them to be gay, but Paul indicated that it is unnatural for that to be the case.

I think the word natural is being equated with normal & thus causing some confusion.
A person may have been born with a natural attraction to members of the same sex but that does not mean that the attraction is 'normal'.
From Gods point of view it is an abnormal attraction. People are born with abnormalities all the time, physical, mental & emotional & to varying degrees, none of us is perfect.
So an attraction to the same sex could be viewed as another abnormality when viewed thru the lens of what God says a normal person should be.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I think the word natural is being equated with normal & thus causing some confusion.
A person may have been born with a natural attraction to members of the same sex but that does not mean that the attraction is 'normal'.

I completely disagree and see no basis for what you're saying. If it was natural for some to be attracted to members of the same sex then why would it be a sin for them to engage in sexual activity with members of the same sex? That makes no sense.

From Gods point of view it is an abnormal attraction.

Why are you trying to change the terms used in scripture? Scripture says it is unnatural. That means people are not born with a natural attraction to people of the opposite sex.

People are born with abnormalities all the time, physical, mental & emotional & to varying degrees, none of us is perfect.
So an attraction to the same sex could be viewed as another abnormality when viewed thru the lens of what God says a normal person should be.

Why would it be a sin for them to want to be with others of the same gender sexually if they are born that way? That makes no sense.

 

[Timtofly]

Unless your are either a universalist or annhilationist, you must concede that sin and death will exist forever.

Eternal conscious punishment where the unrepentant suffer in their sin forever, is incompatible with the notion that sin and death are eliminated.

You can’t have somebody eternally suffering in a state of sin, in a universe where sin doesn’t exist anymore.

Perhaps your objection has more to do with the eternal location of sin and death that it’s certain eternal existence?

But a mere venue change doesn’t solve the philosophical problem of sin and death existing forever.

You either need to appeal to universalism or annihilationism for that.

Well until we actually see this LOF as described by John, I would say your objection falls short.

Obviously sin and death are not in heaven, unless you can prove it with universalism.

Obviously God could at any point allow sin any where, even in heaven. I don't see the point, but if you think sin and death cannot stop, because of a certain location, you may see the point.

Practicing sin in the LOF also seems pointless. Death would be redundant.

 

[Timtofly]

Was my question too difficult? I'm asking you to show where what you said in your post is taught in scripture. Any of it. You can start by showing where it indicates that "Any disobedience will be immediate instant death" during the supposed future Millennium. Again, good luck.

Because God stated the wages of sin is death. God told Adam he would die the instant he disobeyed God. You are attempting to claim no one can even sin or disobey, because it is impossible. Any one who breaks the law set up by God is subject to death. Why do you need a verse that spells something out for you? I thought you were all about concepts as enough proof. Jump out of a jet at 20,000 feet without a parachute, and see how God’s law cannot be disobeyed.

 

[Timtofly]

It's all fantasy. If we take the Holy Scriptures as a whole, then there is no such thing. If you carefully read the New Testament, then after the Second Coming of Jesus Christ there will be a union of souls with their bodies (the resurrection of the dead, and the living will change) and immediately after this there will be the Last Judgment by God. And after the Judgment, the condemned will immediately go to fiery Gehenna, and the acquitted will go to the New Jerusalem or the Kingdom of Heaven forever (infinitely).

The Millennium is not a fantasy. Revelation 20 clearly points out a resurrection and restoration of soul with body prior to a thousand year reign on earth.

No one continues to live in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. The Millennium is totally without sin and living in death. But it is not freedom to break laws and do as one pleases. If one breaks a law it has always been death. The wages of sin is death. Breaking a law is sin. But people will not be born natural sinners. They will have laws to obey.

People claim Daniel 9:24 is a current reality where people don't sin. Why would it be a fantasy in the future millennium, but not a fantasy prior to the Second Coming? You are currently living in your fantasy.

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."

Is the transgression of Adam finished, no longer present on earth? Have all sins been removed, and no more sin? Is there everlasting righteousness on earth? Has every prophesy in Scripture been completed and brought to a close?

Why do you think sin and death will continue into a new millennium after the physical resurrection, and Second Coming of Christ?

 

[ValeriyK2022]

The Millennium is not a fantasy. Revelation 20 clearly points out a resurrection and restoration of soul with body prior to a thousand year reign on earth.

The first in this thousand-year kingdom was the thief crucified with Jesus Christ on the cross, to whom Christ said: today you will be with me in paradise. Then Jesus Christ died, went down to hell, bound Satan and brought the righteous of the Testament out of hell and brought them to heaven. The words that he bound Satan for a thousand years: the word "thousand" means the fullness and length of time. Satan will be released for a short time before the coming of Jesus Christ, during the time of the Antichrist. Then there were martyrs for Christ who were killed for his name (according to the text of Revelation, they were beheaded). They, too, are in paradise with Christ awaiting the second coming of Jesus Christ to earth.

Those who did not go to heaven did not come to life; they are still dead in hell. This will happen until Jesus Christ comes a second time, a long time after the first coming (according to the text of Revelation - until the end of a thousand years). Those who have already gone to heaven, the first resurrection happened to them, they will no longer go to hell. They now reign in heaven with Jesus Christ.

When this long period ends (according to the text of Revelation, “a thousand years”), then for a short time Satan will be released from prison and will come out to deceive the nations.

But those who serve the devil along with him will be cast into the lake of fire after the second coming of Jesus Christ.

The rest of the people will be judged. At this judgment, the righteous will be given a reward, and the sinners will be punished. Anyone who is not written in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire.

This is what is written in Revelation 20. This is what the Orthodox Church now teaches, and this is what the entire world church taught from the 1st century until about the 16th or 17th century, when the heresy of chiliasm reappeared.

It was revealed to the saints who studied with the apostles and their disciples how to correctly understand the New Testament. You don’t want a trading company to respond to your request to send you a laptop they responded to you a notebook and send you a notebook and say: we decided that’s what you meant. You want your order to be completed accurately. How can you interpret Scripture arbitrarily, as you please, and not as it was interpreted by Christians in the 1st millennium?

P.S. I'm leaving the topic where sexual perversions are discussed, so I won't answer anymore here.

 

[Sorn]

I completely disagree and see no basis for what you're saying. If it was natural for some to be attracted to members of the same sex then why would it be a sin for them to engage in sexual activity with members of the same sex? That makes no sense.

What is sin then?
What do you make of Romans 7:23 & Romans 7:25

 

[Semper-Fi]

Carrying capacity of earth: How many people can Earth actually support?

That is a forcast for the Carrying capacity of earth in it's current state.
God will make most of the Earth cultivatable and liveable in many ways.

“The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt…” (Nahum 1:5),
will re-shape in a way rehabilitation of the land surfaces.
(eg. Rev 16:18, Zech. 14:4.)

"A new sharp threshing instrument -the mountains made small, the hills
made as chaff,the wind shall carry them away and the worldwind shall
scatter them: and thou shalt rejoice in the Lord, and shalt glory in
the Holy One of Israel. (Isaiah 41:14-16)

17 When the poor and needy seek water, and there is none, and their tongue faileth for thirst,
I the LORD will hear them, I the God of Israel will not forsake them. I will open rivers in high places,
and fountains in the midstof the valleys: I will make the wilderness a pool of water, and the dry land
springs of water.

19 I will plant in the wilderness the cedar and the acacia tree, The myrtle and the oil tree;
I will set in the desert the cypress tree and the pine And the box tree together, (Isaiah 41:17-19)

20 that they may see, and know, and consider, and understand together, that
the hand of the LORD hath done this, and the Holy One of Israel hath created it.
-

1 The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert
shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose. It shall blossom abundantly, and re-
joice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it,
the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD,
and the excellency of our God.

7And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs
of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with
reeds and rushes. (ISAIAH 35]

"And I will raise up for them a plant of renown, and they shall be no more
consumed with hunger in the land, neither bear the shame of the heathen
any more. (Ezekiel 34:29)

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the
reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains
shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt. I will bring again the
captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and
inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof;
they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.(Amos 9:13-14)

"And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off;
and they shall beat their swords into plowshares[farming equipment], and
their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against
nation, neither shall they learn war any more. (Micah 4:3)

-Waste cities filled with flocks of men (Ezekiel 36:37-38)
-Cities overflow with prosperity (Zechariah 1:17)
-Cities being crime-free , dwell safely-none be made afried (Ezekiel 34:28)
-No more Violence, nor wasting, nor destruction (Isaiah 60:18)

Equitable property distribution-own vine and fig tree-none afraid (Micah 4:4-Lev25)
Desolate land shall be tilled - will be like the garden of Eden (Ezekiel 36:34-35)

-There will be Shepherds and local animal husbandry (Jeremiah 33:12)
Using proper ways to rebuild the soil, instead of depleting our soils.
Of course Jerusalem will be a model for cities all over the world.

“And the [Eternal] shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea;
and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall
smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod” (Isaiah 11:15).

-Jerusalem the financial capital- minerals in the sea will be converted.

“Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged;
because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee,...(Isaiah 60:5).

A river will flow out of Jerusalem, heading east into the Jordan Valley,
healing the contaminated waters of the Dead Sea. (Ezekiel 47)

Fishermen will line the shores, filling their nets with fish. Fruit trees
of every kind will grow along the riverbanks, producing fruit every month.
-

As always, God will be in control of weather (JOB 37] "He causeth it to come,
whether for correction, or for his land, or for mercy.(Zechariah 14:17-19)

 

[AlexB23]

That is a forcast for the Carrying capacity of earth in it's current state.
God will make most of the Earth cultivatable and liveable in many ways.

“The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt…” (Nahum 1:5),
will re-shape in a way rehabilitation of the land surfaces.
(eg. Rev 16:18, Zech. 14:4.)

"A new sharp threshing instrument -the mountains made small, the hills
made as chaff,the wind shall carry them away and the worldwind shall
scatter them: and thou shalt rejoice in the Lord, and shalt glory in
the Holy One of Israel. (Isaiah 41:14-16)

17 When the poor and needy seek water, and there is none, and their tongue faileth for thirst,
I the LORD will hear them, I the God of Israel will not forsake them. I will open rivers in high places,
and fountains in the midstof the valleys: I will make the wilderness a pool of water, and the dry land
springs of water.

19 I will plant in the wilderness the cedar and the acacia tree, The myrtle and the oil tree;
I will set in the desert the cypress tree and the pine And the box tree together, (Isaiah 41:17-19)

20 that they may see, and know, and consider, and understand together, that
the hand of the LORD hath done this, and the Holy One of Israel hath created it.
-

1 The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert
shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose. It shall blossom abundantly, and re-
joice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it,
the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD,
and the excellency of our God.

7And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs
of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with
reeds and rushes. (ISAIAH 35]

"And I will raise up for them a plant of renown, and they shall be no more
consumed with hunger in the land, neither bear the shame of the heathen
any more. (Ezekiel 34:29)

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the
reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains
shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt. I will bring again the
captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and
inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof;
they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.(Amos 9:13-14)

"And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off;
and they shall beat their swords into plowshares[farming equipment], and
their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against
nation, neither shall they learn war any more. (Micah 4:3)

-Waste cities filled with flocks of men (Ezekiel 36:37-38)
-Cities overflow with prosperity (Zechariah 1:17)
-Cities being crime-free , dwell safely-none be made afried (Ezekiel 34:28)
-No more Violence, nor wasting, nor destruction (Isaiah 60:18)

Equitable property distribution-own vine and fig tree-none afraid (Micah 4:4-Lev25)
Desolate land shall be tilled - will be like the garden of Eden (Ezekiel 36:34-35)

-There will be Shepherds and local animal husbandry (Jeremiah 33:12)
Using proper ways to rebuild the soil, instead of depleting our soils.
Of course Jerusalem will be a model for cities all over the world.

“And the [Eternal] shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea;
and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall
smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod” (Isaiah 11:15).

-Jerusalem the financial capital- minerals in the sea will be converted.

“Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged;
because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee,...(Isaiah 60:5).

A river will flow out of Jerusalem, heading east into the Jordan Valley,
healing the contaminated waters of the Dead Sea. (Ezekiel 47)

Fishermen will line the shores, filling their nets with fish. Fruit trees
of every kind will grow along the riverbanks, producing fruit every month.
-

As always, God will be in control of weather (JOB 37] "He causeth it to come,
whether for correction, or for his land, or for mercy.(Zechariah 14:17-19)

Yeah, I was accounting for the Earth as of right now. The carrying capacity could be drastically increased if food could appear without the use of farm equipment (ie. from God). So, we can use 8-10 billion as a lower estimate. But the upper number could be in the hundreds of billions.

 

[jeffweedaman]

I'm curious how many people will be born into the kingdom. Since humans are going to live for 1000 years and no one will die young I am wondering how many people will be alive on earth for the 1000 years.

A number that no-one can count will be born into the Kingdom.....and then Jesus will come a second time.

 

[RandyPNW]

The blessed person lives long. Some will be thought cursed to die at a 100, but what prevents people from being cursed and dying in their youth?

We know that in the modern world, with modern science, that the world population can grow rapidly. And it will likely do so, even after as much as 1/3 of the planet may suffer death in a nuclear war.

But just as Malthus predicted people would die of mass starvation as people outgrew food sources, so we may worry about an even greater mass increase in population? Will people then die of mass starvation as population outgrows modern farming techniques?

Well Malthus was wrong and didn't realize how new agricultural techniques could easily meet the need for an exponential growth in population. And this can happen again.

There is an enormous space for the world's population. It will require new science and greater cooperation.