Hi.... Im a Jehovahs Witness

[bornagain1984]

Even though we do not share the same beliefs we can still share Gods love with each other. Welcome and I'm glad ur here. God Bless u

 

[now faith]

Okay then. With the help of the Holy Spirit (and only with this Divine assistance) I have indeed been able to pray in the manner of the sinful publican in our Lord's parable. This kind of prayer is to be done without ceasing, and leads to the bearing of the fruits of repentance. This is God's will for us.

Luke 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: 1:42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb..

To repeat this over and over would be in honor of Mary,not to pray to her.

Note: Hail Mary full of grace,is not in the word.

The last part of the salutation is included,repetitively misstatements being said over and over become a chant,combined with a bead that has importance in the chant,it leans toward the occult.

 

[truefiction1]

Well, now faith, this saying of mine that you quoted above was meant in reference to prayer directed to God, in the same manner as the publican in the Lord's parable of the Publican and the Pharisee. I haven't implied anything regarding praying to the Theotokos.

 

[Hupomone10]

Okay then. With the help of the Holy Spirit (and only with this Divine assistance) I have indeed been able to pray in the manner of the sinful publican in our Lord's parable. This kind of prayer is to be done without ceasing, and leads to the bearing of the fruits of repentance. This is God's will for us.

I think you are able to remember the question.

Do you pray to the person Mary, mother of Jesus?

I don't blame you for avoiding it. Maybe you think it's funny or cute. But please answer. Not your own question, but mine.

Thanks,
H.

 

[truefiction1]

I think you are able to remember the question.

Do you pray to the person Mary, mother of Jesus?

I don't blame you for avoiding it. Maybe you think it's funny or cute. But please answer. Not your own question, but mine.

Thanks,
H.

If you take the time to reflect upon the question I asked, then perhaps you might gain more insight into your own inner motivation for asking me about Mary, mother of God. If you can't answer my question truthfully, and if you do not yourself pray without ceasing (1 Thessalonians 5:17) in the proper manner, then you will not be able to hear the answer that I would give to yours.

As a refresher for us, here is the parable:

Luke 18:10-14 10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

 

[Hupomone10]

If you take the time to reflect upon the question I asked, then perhaps you might gain more insight into your own inner motivation for asking me about Mary, mother of God.

You wish to avoid the issue. That's fine. I understand.


A small correction is in order, though: I didn't ask you about God Almighty's mother. He doesn't have one.

...and next time you come to a Baptist sub-forum, don't be afraid to support your views, however ridiculous they may seem to others. We will respect you more for it. I think even our Jehovah's Witness OP would be interested in your response.

 

[Ronald]

Timmy is gone, we chased him away! It will certainly give him more reason not to befriend us! The truth is, they do the same thing very often. If you went to one of their meetings, you would eventually hear them critiquing the Catholic Church, pointing fingers at certain pastors in the Prostestant church that said this or did that and sum it up by saying, this is why "we are the holy ones", the first century righteous Christians, implying that the rest of us are corrupt sinners. They equate the cross, observing holidays or birthdays, not addressing "Jehovah's" name in prayer, the Trinity and a long list of our beliefs as sin. They are not allowed in Christian churches or any other religious buildings or gatherings. Why? Because their organization knows they would eventually lose them --but to them it would be sinful. So instilling the fear of dishonoring Jehovah keeps them in a closed prison camp of sorts.
They are deprived of receiving communion (only those whom they say are among the chosen 144,000 can participate) and deprived of even heaven. They forbid themselves of intimate relationships with anyone outside their JW org. for the most part. So it is surprising to see one visiting this forum. Is it curiousity or maybe he has motives of influencing us away from all our hieresy and sin? Help us Tim, don't leave!
You see, I have someone very close to me who is a JW. I've experienced how they shun one another for punishment, how her family puts up walls against me and how I will never really commune with them on any common Christian ground. They don't trust me! And really, they don't trust anyone who is outside their JW org. Well, she is an exception to the rule and risked being ostricized from her congregation to be my friend.
If it's curiousity Tim, stick around, maybe we'll influence you away from a legalistic life, free you from fear of communing with the full body of Christ, 2.3 billion and counting!

 

[truefiction1]

You wish to avoid the issue. That's fine. I understand.


A small correction is in order, though: I didn't ask you about God Almighty's mother. He doesn't have one.

...and next time you come to a Baptist sub-forum, don't be afraid to support your views, however ridiculous they may seem to others. We will respect you more for it. I think even our Jehovah's Witness OP would be interested in your response.

My view is that there is the need for repentance here, so that you may begin to truly discover the blessedness of the Kingdom of God, which is here for the taking. I don't see any need to convince anyone of anything regarding the Theotokos, or likewise to defend my beliefs about her. The greatest need is for a right belief in Jesus Christ and repentance. I'll gladly converse in more detail on this subject if you want, God willing.

 

[Hupomone10]

My view is that there is the need for repentance here, so that you may begin to truly discover the blessedness of the Kingdom of God, which is here for the taking. I don't see any need to convince anyone of anything regarding the Theotokos, or likewise to defend my beliefs about her. The greatest need is for a right belief in Jesus Christ and repentance. I'll gladly converse in more detail on this subject if you want, God willing.

So does that mean you do pray to the person Mary, or you don't?


(p.s.- I have repented, and I do have a right belief in Jesus Christ.)

 

[truefiction1]

So does that mean you do pray to the person Mary, or you don't?


(p.s.- I have repented, and I do have a right belief in Jesus Christ.)

I have asked the mother of God the Word/Logos (i.e. Jesus Christ) to pray for me and continue to do so on occasion.

 

[Hupomone10]

I have asked the mother of God the Word/Logos (i.e. Jesus Christ) to pray for me and continue to do so on occasion.

I could ask you what scriptural authority you think is your guidance for praying to a person rather than to God alone; but instead, I have a more practical question for you.

Do you have any confidence that she heard you?

To save the back-and-forth emails, and attempts to avoid the questions yet again, I'll tell you where I'm going with this.

1. You say you prayed to the person Mary asking her to pray for you.

2. There are 1.18 billion Catholics in the world. source

3. There are 31,536,000 seconds in a year.

4. Of the 1,180,000,000 catholics in the world, even assuming a prayer to Mary only takes 1 second (it will usually take many seconds), and assuming the average catholic prays only once a month, that means there could be on average 1,160 Catholics praying to the person Mary in any given second.

If the average prayer life is more than once a month, and the average prayer to Mary more than one second, this merely makes the statistics more overwhelming. And then, in addition to hearing your prayer, for her to intercede for you personally as you've implied just adds that much more to the ridiculousness of such a suggestion.

So, again I ask: even given the numbers I've given, which are extremely weighted in your favor,

5. with potentially 1,160 Catholics praying to God or to her in any given second, from a practical standpoint what confidence do you have that a mere person would hear your prayer as opposed to the 1.18 billion other Catholics that could be praying to her at that given moment?


It would take omni-presence and omnipotence on her part, wouldn't it? And isn't that what we attribute to God alone?

Your belief sounds good until it is put to the test. Mary is no more able to hear your prayer in any given instant than Satan himself apart from his vast army of fallen angels is able to single-handedly tempt the number of Christians in the world that think he is personally tempting them. Satan is not omni-present, and neither is Mary.

Thanks for finally admitting you pray to her. I trust that you will also admit the statistical improbability of her being able to hear your individual prayer among so many, much less having the time to answer it among so many.

Blessings,
H.

 

[truefiction1]

I could ask you what scriptural authority you think is your guidance for praying to a person rather than to God alone; but instead, I have a more practical question for you.

I would answer: It is by the authority of Him Who Himself inspired the sacred scriptures, and Who gives understanding to the humble, but resists the proud.

Do you have any confidence that she heard you?

I have absolute confidence that she heard me. So much so that I would stake my very belief in the existence of God on it. I could explain this, except that I've already discerned from the outset that your psyche is severely poisoned against the truth, and given the great confidence you have in your own religious reasonings and knowledge, it will take a strong act by God for you to be convinced to repent in the way that you need to in order to be led into all Truth.

1. You say you prayed to the person Mary asking her to pray for you.

2. There are 1.18 billion Catholics in the world. source

3. There are 31,536,000 seconds in a year.

4. Of the 1,180,000,000 catholics in the world, even assuming a prayer to Mary only takes 1 second (it will usually take many seconds), and assuming the average catholic prays only once a month, that means there could be on average 1,160 Catholics praying to the person Mary in any given second.

If the average prayer life is more than once a month, and the average prayer to Mary more than one second, this merely makes the statistics more overwhelming. And then, in addition to hearing your prayer, for her to intercede for you personally as you've implied just adds that much more to the ridiculousness of such a suggestion.

So, again I ask: even given the numbers I've given, which are extremely weighted in your favor,

5. with potentially 1,160 Catholics praying to God or to her in any given second, from a practical standpoint what confidence do you have that a mere person would hear your prayer as opposed to the 1.18 billion other Catholics that could be praying to her at that given moment?


It would take omni-presence and omnipotence on her part, wouldn't it? And isn't that what we attribute to God alone?

Your belief sounds good until it is put to the test. Mary is no more able to hear your prayer in any given instant than Satan himself apart from his vast army of fallen angels is able to single-handedly tempt the number of Christians in the world that think he is personally tempting them. Satan is not omni-present, and neither is Mary.

Thanks for finally admitting you pray to her. I trust that you will also admit the statistical improbability of her being able to hear your individual prayer among so many, much less having the time to answer it among so many.

Blessings,
H.

All that this tells me is that the great confidence you have in the superiority of your own reasoning has prevented you from entering into the Kingdom of God, where you would soon discover that these limitations and alleged impossibilities that you've listed here are all simply transcended by the awesome Power of God and timeless reality of His Kingdom.

If God wills for us not to ask the Theotokos to pray for us, then why does He answer through miracles of healing wrought by His power? Would you deny such good deeds done by the Holy Spirit? Why would you even consider doing such a thing? Please think about this. Consider your deep inner motives. I beg you to not join the ranks of those who denied the mighty works of Christ in his day, just because they, in the darkness of their minds corrupted by the passion of pride, didn't want to believe that they could be wrong about things.

 

[Whisper865]

Would someone please take the time to explain to me what a Jehovah's witness believes and what makes them so much different than your run of the mill Christian denomination. Just curious I had one show up at my door today. The man professed Jesus... Am I missing something?

 

[yogosans14]

I am studying with the JWs at the moment, I am still sruggling with the concept of the Trinity but find this article to be helpful.


Was the Word “God” or “a god”?

THAT question has to be considered when Bible translators handle the first verse of the Gospel of John. In the New World Translation, the verse is rendered: “In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.” (John 1:1) Some other translations render the last part of the verse to convey the thought that the Word was “divine,” or something similar. (A New Translation of the Bible, by James Moffatt; The New English Bible) Many translations, however, render the last part of John 1:1: “And the Word was God.”—The Holy Bible—New International Version; The Jerusalem Bible.

Greek grammar and the context strongly indicate that the New World Translation rendering is correct and that “the Word” should not be identified as the “God” referred to earlier in the verse. Nevertheless, the fact that the Greek language of the first century did not have an indefinite article (“a” or “an&#8221 leaves the matter open to question in some minds. It is for this reason that a Bible translation in a language that was spoken in the earliest centuries of our Common Era is very interesting.

The language is the Sahidic dialect of Coptic. The Coptic language was spoken in Egypt in the centuries immediately following Jesus’ earthly ministry, and the Sahidic dialect was an early literary form of the language. Regarding the earliest Coptic translations of the Bible, The Anchor Bible Dictionary says: “Since the [Septuagint] and the [Christian Greek Scriptures] were being translated into Coptic during the 3d century C.E., the Coptic version is based on [Greek manuscripts] which are significantly older than the vast majority of extant witnesses.”

The Sahidic Coptic text is especially interesting for two reasons. First, as indicated above, it reflects an understanding of Scripture dating from before the fourth century, which was when the Trinity became official doctrine. Second, Coptic grammar is relatively close to English grammar in one important aspect. The earliest translations of the Christian Greek Scriptures were into Syriac, Latin, and Coptic. Syriac and Latin, like the Greek of those days, do not have an indefinite article. Coptic, however, does. Moreover, scholar Thomas O. Lambdin, in his work Introduction to Sahidic Coptic, says: “The use of the Coptic articles, both definite and indefinite, corresponds closely to the use of the articles in English.”

Hence, the Coptic translation supplies interesting evidence as to how John 1:1 would have been understood back then. What do we find? The Sahidic Coptic translation uses an indefinite article with the word “god” in the final part of John 1:1. Thus, when rendered into modern English, the translation reads: “And the Word was a god.” Evidently, those ancient translators realized that John’s words recorded at John 1:1 did not mean that Jesus was to be identified as Almighty God. The Word was a god, not Almighty God.

 

[truefiction1]

I am studying with the JWs at the moment, I am still sruggling with the concept of the Trinity but find this article to be helpful.


Was the Word “God” or “a god”?

THAT question has to be considered when Bible translators handle the first verse of the Gospel of John. In the New World Translation, the verse is rendered: “In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.” (John 1:1) Some other translations render the last part of the verse to convey the thought that the Word was “divine,” or something similar. (A New Translation of the Bible, by James Moffatt; The New English Bible) Many translations, however, render the last part of John 1:1: “And the Word was God.”—The Holy Bible—New International Version; The Jerusalem Bible.

Greek grammar and the context strongly indicate that the New World Translation rendering is correct and that “the Word” should not be identified as the “God” referred to earlier in the verse. Nevertheless, the fact that the Greek language of the first century did not have an indefinite article (“a” or “an”) leaves the matter open to question in some minds. It is for this reason that a Bible translation in a language that was spoken in the earliest centuries of our Common Era is very interesting.

The language is the Sahidic dialect of Coptic. The Coptic language was spoken in Egypt in the centuries immediately following Jesus’ earthly ministry, and the Sahidic dialect was an early literary form of the language. Regarding the earliest Coptic translations of the Bible, The Anchor Bible Dictionary says: “Since the [Septuagint] and the [Christian Greek Scriptures] were being translated into Coptic during the 3d century C.E., the Coptic version is based on [Greek manuscripts] which are significantly older than the vast majority of extant witnesses.”

The Sahidic Coptic text is especially interesting for two reasons. First, as indicated above, it reflects an understanding of Scripture dating from before the fourth century, which was when the Trinity became official doctrine. Second, Coptic grammar is relatively close to English grammar in one important aspect. The earliest translations of the Christian Greek Scriptures were into Syriac, Latin, and Coptic. Syriac and Latin, like the Greek of those days, do not have an indefinite article. Coptic, however, does. Moreover, scholar Thomas O. Lambdin, in his work Introduction to Sahidic Coptic, says: “The use of the Coptic articles, both definite and indefinite, corresponds closely to the use of the articles in English.”

Hence, the Coptic translation supplies interesting evidence as to how John 1:1 would have been understood back then. What do we find? The Sahidic Coptic translation uses an indefinite article with the word “god” in the final part of John 1:1. Thus, when rendered into modern English, the translation reads: “And the Word was a god.” Evidently, those ancient translators realized that John’s words recorded at John 1:1 did not mean that Jesus was to be identified as Almighty God. The Word was a god, not Almighty God.

Coptic Christians worship the Holy Trinity, and why would the writer of the Gospel of John refer to any being as "a god" when such a thing stinks of polytheism, which Christians have always vehemently rejected? The Word of God is not a created being, but the very expression of the mind/will of the Father, by Whom all things were made. All things, including time itself. The Word co-existed with the Father from all eternity, as did the Holy Spirit, Who is not a thing, as taught by Jehovah's Witnesses, but a person also.

"God is Love", so we are told in the Gospel of John. Love requires relationship/communion with someone other than oneself. This is common sense. God therefore is a community of three persons Who eternally love One Another, prior to creating anyone else. This is the truth that is revealed in Holy Scripture and in the Christ's Church, against which the "gates of hell shall not prevail" (also taught in scripture). Please don't believe the lies of the Jehovah's self-proclaimed witnesses, who would have us believe that the whole of Christendom fell away from true understandings very soon after the Church was founded. Find the Truth by coming to know God through continuous repentance of your sins and by striving to keep Christ's sayings, especially those that pertain to loving others as you love yourself. This is the "narrow gate" that will enable you to enter the Kingdom of God. Not in some distant future time only, but right now: a truth that is also taught in Holy Scripture.

 

[yogosans14]

Coptic Christians worship the Holy Trinity, and why would the writer of the Gospel of John refer to any being as "a god" when such a thing stinks of polytheism, which Christians have always vehemently rejected? The Word of God is not a created being, but the very expression of the mind/will of the Father, by Whom all things were made. All things, including time itself. The Word co-existed with the Father from all eternity, as did the Holy Spirit, Who is not a thing, as taught by Jehovah's Witnesses, but a person also.

"God is Love", so we are told in the Gospel of John. Love requires relationship/communion with someone other than oneself. This is common sense. God therefore is a community of three persons Who eternally love One Another, prior to creating anyone else. This is the truth that is revealed in Holy Scripture and in the Christ's Church, against which the "gates of hell shall not prevail" (also taught in scripture). Please don't believe the lies of the Jehovah's self-proclaimed witnesses, who would have us believe that the whole of Christendom fell away from true understandings very soon after the Church was founded. Find the Truth by coming to know God through continuous repentance of your sins and by striving to keep Christ's sayings, especially those that pertain to loving others as you love yourself. This is the "narrow gate" that will enable you to enter the Kingdom of God. Not in some distant future time only, but right now: a truth that is also taught in Holy Scripture.

Proof that the JWs are liars...I didnt see any.

 

[truefiction1]

Proof that the JWs are liars...I didnt see any.

I didn't mean that they are liars... only that the things that they believe and teach are lies. They actually believe that they abide in and teach the truth, because they are deceived.

 

[Hupomone10]

Would someone please take the time to explain to me what a Jehovah's witness believes and what makes them so much different than your run of the mill Christian denomination. Just curious I had one show up at my door today. The man professed Jesus... Am I missing something?

They believe the Word of God (Jesus) is a created being, having a beginning just like angels. They reject the Trinity when it comes to God, but at the same time they obviously believe (notice the next post quoted below) that Jesus is a lesser god ("a god"), showing that they allow more than one god.

They believe the New Testament Christian must abide by all the laws given under the Mosaic covenant.

There are many more distinctives, but this one is a big one also for me: they believe they are the true group, and all others false. And believing this, they believe you must be initiated into (committed to) their group to truly have entrance to the kingdom. That is a red flag to me. Eternal life isn't given to groups, but to individuals. It is a persona thing, based on the work of Christ, not on joining a group. There is no group-salvation.

You will find that they first show you inconsistencies in your own beliefs from whatever denomination you're from, then lead you to the conclusion that you must be wrong and the only way to be right is to join their group. Then all is right.

I am studying with the JWs at the moment, I am still sruggling with the concept of the Trinity but find this article to be helpful.


Was the Word “God” or “a god”?

They do indeed translate this verse as "a god", however they do not follow their own principles of translation in other verses having the same Greek wording by translating them as "a god."

If the verse listed above must be translated as "a god" then here are some verses that contain the same Greek wording, that must also be translated "a god", but a comparison with the NWT will show that they didn't do it in those instances. Here are but a few examples:

John 1:6 There came a man sent from God, whose name was John.
John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time;
John 3:2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, "Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher;"

To be consistent, the NWT must translate this as below:
John 1:6 There came a man sent from "a god," whose name was John.
John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of "a god,"
John 3:2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, "Rabbi, we know that You have come from "a god"..."

A study of the New World Translation shows that their theology determines their translation, in a blatantly obvious way.

The same thing occurs with their dealing with eternal punishment, which I can add in a future post.

 

[mandelduke]

Hi guys and gals.

I'm a JW and I just wanted to say hi. I know we don't share some beliefs but I believe we can all be friends and enjoy some lovely spiritual food together.

Yes if you think that you can have different beliefs, and be friends with these people you are new here.
Most people on CF think they are the only ones (LOL). But good luck Timmytucker nice to meet you.

 

[Jehovah is God]

You people are pitiful. Poor Timmy just wanted to say hi.

When Jesus's disciples were arguing who was the greatest among them, Jesus pointed, and said he who humbles himself as a child will enter into the kingdom of heaven.