Genesis, from another Perspective!

[2Pillars]

My Take - Open for Discussion:

Genesis 1:1-2 document us the story of the condition of the DEEP (empty)before the heaven and earth were created in the beginning.

"In the beginning God Created the heaven (Air) and the Earth (Ground). And the Earth (Ground) was without form, (Dust) and void; (Empty) and darkness (Death) was upon the face of the DEEP, (Water) and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

The 3 elements necessary for all physical form are shown... Air, Dust, and Water. Everything which is physical is composed of these 3 elements. The text is correct in showing that the water was not directly created, or spoken into being, because it consists of elements of the Air or Atmosphere. Water is Hydrogen and Oxygen and came from the Atmosphere and is not shown as a separate creation.

This is correct in today's scientific knowledge, but IF the Bible were written by Ancient men, Moses would not have known this. He would have written that in the beginning God created the Air, Dust, and Water, but since God Himself is the Author, He correctly shows that the Atmosphere and Ground were created, and the Water was not a separate creation but instead, came from the Atmosphere.

Genesis 1:3 shows us the Light was brought forth into physical existence to turn the condition of the deep (empty) from darkness (death) to light (life).

Jesus (YHWH), the Son of the Invisible God, WAS the Light that was brought forth when the Word (Jesus) was spoken in the beginning "LET THERE BE LIGHT". John 1:1; Gen. 1:3

All things were made through/by him: and without the Light (Son) was not anything made that was made. Because, in him (Jesus) is Life. John 1:3-4

Jesus/YWHW provided the Light in heaven on the first three days of creation as he would also be the One to provide Light in the New Jerusalem to come (Rev. 21:23).

"And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb (Jesus) is the light thereof." Revelation 21:23


God Bless.

 

[gluadys]

My Take - Open for Discussion:

Genesis 1:1-2 document us the story of the condition of the DEEP (empty)before the heaven and earth were created in the beginning.

"In the beginning God Created the heaven (Air) and the Earth (Ground). And the Earth (Ground) was without form, (Dust) and void; (Empty) and darkness (Death) was upon the face of the DEEP, (Water) and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

The 3 elements necessary for all physical form are shown... Air, Dust, and Water. Everything which is physical is composed of these 3 elements. The text is correct in showing that the water was not directly created, or spoken into being, because it consists of elements of the Air or Atmosphere. Water is Hydrogen and Oxygen and came from the Atmosphere and is not shown as a separate creation.

This is correct in today's scientific knowledge, but IF the Bible were written by Ancient men, Moses would not have known this. He would have written that in the beginning God created the Air, Dust, and Water, but since God Himself is the Author, He correctly shows that the Atmosphere and Ground were created, and the Water was not a separate creation but instead, came from the Atmosphere.

Genesis 1:3 shows us the Light was brought forth into physical existence to turn the condition of the deep (empty) from darkness (death) to light (life).

Jesus (YHWH), the Son of the Invisible God, WAS the Light that was brought forth when the Word (Jesus) was spoken in the beginning "LET THERE BE LIGHT". John 1:1; Gen. 1:3

All things were made through/by him: and without the Light (Son) was not anything made that was made. Because, in him (Jesus) is Life. John 1:3-4

Jesus/YWHW provided the Light in heaven on the first three days of creation as he would also be the One to provide Light in the New Jerusalem to come (Rev. 21:23).

"And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb (Jesus) is the light thereof." Revelation 21:23


God Bless.

I like it. This is the sort of poetic, allegorical interpretation of scripture that was much favoured in medieval times. I like how it picks up archetypes in the scripture and uses them in a stream of consciousness manner to point us to Christ.

 

[GodSaves]

The problem is you assume Jesus Christ, who is God Himself was created instead of always being, which is unscriptural.


John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

John 17:24
"Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.


Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

 

[herev]

The problem is you assume Jesus Christ, who is God Himself was created instead of always being, which is unscriptural.


John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

John 17:24
"Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.


Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

I was going to chime in and agree with the OP, but I didn't read it clearly--good catch

 

[2Pillars]

The problem is you assume Jesus Christ, who is God Himself was created instead of always being, which is unscriptural.

Perhaps, you missed the term I used in describing Genesis 1:3. The Light was not created but was brought forth into our own physical world of existense from the Invisible realm of the Father who is a Spirit.

YHWH, the Son of the Invisible God Father, became known as Jesus Christ in the New Testament.

Ironically, your own cited text denied your assumption but support my stand. Here's why, based strictly on the Scripture....

Note: Insertions are mine for clarity of thoughts.

"In the beginning was the Word (Light), and the Word was with God (Father), and the Word was God (Son)." John 1:1

"The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, BEFORE his work of old. Proverbs. 8:22

And the Earth (Ground) was without form, (Dust) and void; (Empty) and darkness (Death) was upon the face of the deep, (Water) and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Genesis 1:2

"The same was in the beginning with God." John 1:2

"I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. Proverbs. 8:23

And God said, LET THERE BE LIGHT: and there was light. Genesis 1:3

NOTE: The WORD was spoken by God in the BEGINNING - the Glory of God!

"All things were made BY him; and without him, was not any thing made that was made." John 1:3

"When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.'" Proverbs 8:24

Note: As we could see, based on the reconciliation of the passages including Genesis1:1~3, our heaven and earth at this period of time were still null & void (empty).

"And God saw the light that it WAS good: and God divided the light from darkness. v5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the 1st. day. "Genesis 1:4-5


God Bless

 

[2Pillars]

The narrative of Gen. 1:1-2 is speaking of the period BEFORE the 1st Day.

I would point you to the words of Jesus which show that He had a "Glory" or Brightness, before the world was. This is a physical manifestation and shows that Jesus came forth, physically, from the Invisible God Father, when the Word was spoken in the beginning, "Let there be Light".

Gen. 1:6-8 shows that the Firmament or Heaven, as God calls it in Gen. 1:8 was formed on the 2nd Day.

Jesus speaks of this time, in the Garden of Gethsemane:

And now, O Father, glorify thou Me with Thine Own Self with the Glory which I had with Thee BEFORE the world was." John 17:5

If one believes that In the beginning God created the Heavens (Plural) BEFORE the 1st Day, then the Words of Jesus would seem to be in error.

If one believes that the 1st Firmament or Heaven was formed on the 2nd Day, then it would agree with Jesus, and would show that Jesus came into the World Before the 1st Heaven was formed.


Please explain why YECs do not seem to notice that the 1st Heaven was made on the 2nd Day, and the Heavens (Plural) were made on the 3rd Day.



God Bless

 

[gluadys]

The problem is you assume Jesus Christ, who is God Himself was created instead of always being, which is unscriptural.

I don't think so. This is the nature of metaphorical language.

God IS light. But God also CREATES light.

Light is IN Christ and it is the same light which enlightens every person. And Christ is the Light of the World.

Every occurrence of light is both the eternal light in God and the same light in creation. The eternal uncreated Light of the Son is metaphorically identical with the lesser but created light of the sun.

Metaphorically, not scientifically and not in systematic theology.

But the essence of metaphor is that one thing is identified with another thing on the basis of resemblance.

 

[GodSaves]

Genesis 1:3 Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.

be = Hayah (Hebrew) means to be, to become, come into being, come to pass, to exist.

light = Owr (Hebrew) means light, light of day.

Genesis 1
4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning-the first day.

From your equation of Jesus as the light spoken about in Genesis 1:3, Jesus came into being (Hayah), Jesus is called the day, and Jesus had to be seperated from the darkness. Since Jesus is God Himself, Holy and Pure, why did Jesus need to be seperated from the darkness? You refer to the darkness as death, did Christ need to be seperated from death, was He in death in the beginning?

To me it sounds as if Jesus Christ, God Himself, was dead before the creation of the world and needed to be brought into being, and then seperate from death, and is now called day.

 

[gluadys]

Genesis 1:3 Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.

be = Hayah (Hebrew) means to be, to become, come into being, come to pass, to exist.

light = Owr (Hebrew) means light, light of day.

Genesis 1
4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning-the first day.

From your equation of Jesus as the light spoken about in Genesis 1:3, Jesus came into being (Hayah), Jesus is called the day, and Jesus had to be seperated from the darkness. Since Jesus is God Himself, Holy and Pure, why did Jesus need to be seperated from the darkness? You refer to the darkness as death, did Christ need to be seperated from death, was He in death in the beginning?

To me it sounds as if Jesus Christ, God Himself, was dead before the creation of the world and needed to be brought into being, and then seperate from death, and is now called day.

That's because you are trying to analyse a metaphor logically. Doesn't work.

 

[2Pillars]

Genesis 1:3 shows us the Light was brought forth into physical existence to turn the condition of the deep (empty) from darkness (death) to light (life).

From your equation of Jesus as the light spoken about in Genesis 1:3, Jesus came into being (Hayah), Jesus is called the day, and Jesus had to be seperated from the darkness. Since Jesus is God Himself, Holy and Pure, why did Jesus need to be seperated from the darkness? You refer to the darkness as death, did Christ need to be seperated from death, was He in death in the beginning?

The Light (Son) came forth from the bosom of the Invisible Father not from "darkness" as you continue to imagine. Therefore, He was always with his God Father's bosom, from the beginning from everlasting. John 1:18; Proverbs 8:22-36

It is only the BRIGHTNESS of the Glory of the Son that is separated from darkness or unblievers -- until they are created in the image and likeness of God or born again spiritually in Christ, who is the express image of God.

To me it sounds as if Jesus Christ, God Himself, was dead before the creation of the world and needed to be brought into being, and then seperate from death, and is now called day.

I agree with Gluadys..."That's because you are trying to analyse a metaphor logically. Doesn't work."

Here's another biblical passages to answer your question, since you've accuse my previous post to be "unscriptural".

1JOHN 2:8....: BECAUSE the darkness is past, and THE TRUE LIGHT now shineth.

John 1:9 That was THE TRUE LIGHT, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.



Could you also explain Revelation 21:23 if you still have objection to Jesus being the TRUE LIGHT that would shine in the New Jerusalem, as it is written in the Bible.


God Bless

 

[RVincent]

(Gen 1:1) In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.​

Did it say when? No.

created. = Heb. bara', not 'asah (= make) as in vv. 7, 11, 12, 16, etc. The Hebrew bara' means not only to create, but that what was created was beautiful. The root, meaning to carve, plane, polish, implies both order and beauty.

the heaven. ha shammayim, plural, and with the article.

the earth. ha eretz, also with the article.

(Gen 1:2) And the earth BECAME (hayah) without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.​

God did not create the world void (Isa. 45:18). But it became that way at the KATABOLE.

"Some scholars also argue against translating hayah "became" instead of "was" in Genesis 1:2 because they assume this interpretation came about only recently, after geology revealed the strata of the earth to be very old. Thus they consider this explanation a desperate attempt to reconcile the Genesis account with modern geology. The explanation that there existed an indefinite period between the initial beautiful creation described in Genesis 1:1 and the earth becoming waste and void in verse 2 has been called, sometimes disparagingly, "the gap theory." The idea was attributed to Thomas Chalmers in the 19th century and to Cyrus Scofield in the 20th.

Yet the interpretation that the earth "became" waste and void has been discussed for close to 2,000 years. The earliest known recorded controversy on this point can be attributed to Jewish sages at the beginning of the second century. The Hebrew scholars who wrote the Targum of Onkelos, the earliest of the Aramaic versions of the Old Testament, translated Genesis 1:2 as "and the earth was laid waste." The original language led them to understand that something had occurred that had "laid waste" the earth, and they interpreted this as a destruction.

The early Catholic theologian Origen (186-254 AD), in his commentary De Principiis, explains regarding Genesis 1:2 that the original earth had been "cast downwards" (Ante-Nicene Fathers, 1917,
p. 342).

In the Middle Ages the Flemish scholar Hugo St. Victor (1097-1141) wrote about Genesis 1:2: "Perhaps enough has already been debated about these matters thus far, if we add only this, 'how long did the world remain in this disorder before the regular re-ordering . . . of it was taken in hand?'" (De Sacramentis Christianae Fidei, Book 1, Part I, Chapter VI). Other medieval scholars, such as Dionysius Peavius and Pererius, also considered that there was an interval between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

According to The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, the Dutch scholar Simon Epíscopius (1583-1643) taught that the earth had originally been created before the six days of creation described in Genesis (1952, Vol. 3, p. 302). This was roughly 200 years before geology discovered evidence for the ancient origin of earth.

These numerous examples show us that the idea of an interval between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 has a long history. Any claim that it is of only recent origin-that it was invented simply as a desperate attempt to reconcile the Genesis account with geology-is groundless.


Perhaps the best treatment on both sides of this question is given by the late Arthur Custance in his book Without Form and Void: A Study of the Meaning of Genesis 1:2. Dr. Custance states, "To me, this issue is important, and after studying the problem for some thirty years and after reading everything I could lay my hands on pro and con and after accumulating in my own library some 300 commentaries on Genesis, the earliest being dated 1670, I am persuaded that there is, on the basis of the evidence, far more reason to translate Gen. 1:2 as 'But the earth had become a ruin and a desolation, etc.' than there is for any of the conventional translations in our modern versions" (1970, p. 7)."

 

[2Pillars]

"In the beginning God Created the heaven (Air) and the Earth (Ground). And the Earth (Ground) was without form, (Dust) and void; (Empty) and darkness (Death) was upon the face of the deep, (Water) and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

IMHO, “Gap Theory” is just another short fairy-tale story that is Un-Scriptural. It's a compilation of wild imaginations of those who like to continue exalting themselves above measures, YET, could not support their view with Scripture -- that’s why they are called “THEORY”.

As I have said before, Genesis 1:1-2 is a story of the beginning and the narration of the condition of the DEEP before the creation our own heaven and earth.

Entry Word: Genesis
Function: noun
Text:
Synonyms: BEGINNING, alpha, commencement, dawn, dawning, opening, outset, outstart, setout, start.

The first formation of heaven took place on the 2nd Day not Genesis 1:1. Our earth was made on the 3rd. Day.

Most certainly, the word "Genesis" -- "THE BEGINNING" -- has nothing to do with the "THE END" or "FALL" of Lucifer or his Angels, as others assume it to be.

It's ridiculous to even think that during the formation of the 1st heaven or universe, the power of God’s logos were not sufficient enough, therefore, “the earth 'became' waste without form and void” and had to be "REPAIRED" according to the wild imaginations of those who hold this “Gap Theory”. Absurd, isn't it?


God Bless

 

[RVincent]

Why don't we let Jesus teach whether or not "gaps" are unscriptural?

In the synagogue at Nazareth "He found the place where it was written:

The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He hath anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor;
He hath sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To preach deliverance to the captives,
And recovering of sight to the blind,
To set at liberty them that are bruised,
To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

And HE CLOSED THE BOOK, and He gave it again to the minister, and sat down" (Luke 4:18-20). Why this mysterious action? Why not continue the reading? Because He could not; for the words which immediately follow refer to the end of the present Dispensation of Grace, and speak of the coming Dispensation of Judgment. Had he continued to read Isaiah 61:1, 2, the next line would have been

"And the day of vengeance of our God".

But this part of the prophecy was not then to be fulfilled.

As far as He had read, He could truly say, "This day is this Scripture fulfilled in your ears." But He could not have said "This day is this Scripture fulfilled", had He not "closed the book", but gone on to read the next line.

And yet, in the Authorized Version and all other versions, there is only a comma between the two lines, while there is a period of nearly 2,000 years between the two statements. (In the Manuscripts there is no mark of punctuation at all.)

This will show the importance of "searching" and "looking into" the "manner of time" of which the prophets wrote.

Other examples may be found in

Genesis 1, between verses 1 and 2.
Psalm 22, between verses 21 and 22.
Psalm 118, in the middle of verse 22.
Isaiah. 9:6, after the first clause.
Isaiah 53, in the middle of verse 10.
Isaiah 61, in the middle of verse 2 (see above).
Lamentations 4, between verses 21 and 22.
Daniel 9, between verses 26 and 27.
Daniel 11, between verses 20 and 21.
Hosea 2, between verses 13 and 14.
Hosea 3, between verses 4 and 5.
Amos 9, between verses 10 and 11.
Micah 5, between verses 2 and 3.
Habukkuk 2, between verses 13 and 14.
Zephaniah 3, between verses 7 and 8.
Zephaniah 9, between verses 9 and 10.
Matthew 10, in the middle of verse 23.
Matthew 12, in the middle of verse 20.
Luke 1, between verses 31 and 32.
Luke 21, in the middle of verse 24.
John 1, between verses 5 and 6.
1 Peter 1, in the middle of verse 11.
Revelation 12, between verses 5 and 6.

What is so absurd about what the Bible records? Satan's rebellion.

I showed you the Hebrew in verses one and two. Are your own designs more important?

 

[2Pillars]

Why don't we let Jesus teach whether or not "gaps" are unscriptural?

Like most Gap Theorists, you cannot use Scripture to support your opinions. You can only use your interpretational methods which don't agree with Scripture, Science, nor History. You can only base your "interpretation" on your own religious views and assumptions.

Your personal interpretation is Not supported by Scripture.The only reason to believe such, is in a vain effort to support your theories and wild imaginations.

If the theorists are that gullible, then I have some prime swamp land that I am sure they would be interested in seeing.

YHWH, the Son of the Invisible God, was very specific about the secret things that are not written in the Scriptures to avoid such theories and assumptions....

The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law. Deuteronomy 29:29


God Bless

 

[2Pillars]

The biggest mistake of those who hold the belief in “Gap Theory” was assuming that there was a “gap of time” between Genesis 1 & 2 that would explain why the heaven and earth “BECAME” waste without form and void, therefore God had to repair it, accordingly.

Perhaps, these Gap Theorists could avoid making such ignorant assumptions if they would only read the Scripture more instead of listening to their ancestor’s wild imaginations and fables.

In the beginning God Created the heaven (Air) and the Earth (Ground). And the Earth (Ground) was without form, (Dust) and void; (Empty) and darkness (Death) was upon the face of the deep, (Water) and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

As I have said before, Genesis 1:1-2 is a story of the beginning and the narration of the CONDITION of the DEEP before the creation our own heaven and earth.

Please find the Biblical “Gap” in Genesis recorded in the Book of Proverbs --based on the Scripture -- NOT like their distorted belief and theory...

Proverbs 8
22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
32 Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.
33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.
34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.
35 For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the LORD.
36 But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

God Bless