Egyptian Creation Myths and Genesis 1-2

[Ephesians321]

Since converting to full preterism and the belief Adam and Eve only experienced spiritual death as in Hadean death the day they ate of the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. That they weren't created immortal. The reconciliation between science and the two first chapters of Genesis diminished greatly. Afterall the ancients Hebrews were under Egyptian bondage for hundreds of years, and were no doubt familiar with Egyptian creation myths and maybe even accepted them. They had forgotten the name of God too. In regards to Genesis what I take from it now, is that God rested after creation, Adam and Eve were children of God who sinned, cast out of the Garden and now eternally separated from his presence due to sins. Now back to Egypt, the Spirit inspired Moses to tell the true story creation in which God exists before and outside of creation itself neither was creation made from his material body. He is a Spirit. That he alone is the one true God. The days are immaterial but that Egyptian creation myths also involved creation days well the Hebrews had just received salvation from their Egyptian bondage and now no doubt awaited fundamental reprogramming and re-education in the monotheism of Yahweh. YEC? OEC? ID? Creationism? Theistic Evolution? Does any of this really matter in regards to the Bible, the Gospel, and one's personal faith in Christ.

Please watch this video with open heart:

 

[HTacianas]

Since converting to full preterism and the belief Adam and Eve only experienced spiritual death as in Hadean death the day they ate of the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. That they weren't created immortal. The reconciliation between science and the two first chapters of Genesis diminished greatly. Afterall the ancients Hebrews were under Egyptian bondage for hundreds of years, and were no doubt familiar with Egyptian creation myths and maybe even accepted them. They had forgotten the name of God too. In regards to Genesis what I take from it now, is that God rested after creation, Adam and Eve were children of God who sinned, cast out of the Garden and now eternally separated from his presence due to sins. Now back to Egypt, the Spirit inspired Moses to tell the true story creation in which God exists before and outside of creation itself neither was creation made from his material body. He is a Spirit. That he alone is the one true God. The days are immaterial but that Egyptian creation myths also involved creation days well the Hebrews had just received salvation from their Egyptian bondage and now no doubt awaited fundamental reprogramming and re-education in the monotheism of Yahweh. YEC? OEC? ID? Creationism? Theistic Evolution? Does any of this really matter in regards to the Bible, the Gospel, and one's personal faith in Christ.

Please watch this video with open heart:

To answer your question, no. It doesn't matter one bit. If it did Christianity would always have had a defined teaching on the creation. It never has.

 

[eleos1954]

Since converting to full preterism and the belief Adam and Eve only experienced spiritual death as in Hadean death the day they ate of the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. That they weren't created immortal. The reconciliation between science and the two first chapters of Genesis diminished greatly. Afterall the ancients Hebrews were under Egyptian bondage for hundreds of years, and were no doubt familiar with Egyptian creation myths and maybe even accepted them. They had forgotten the name of God too. In regards to Genesis what I take from it now, is that God rested after creation, Adam and Eve were children of God who sinned, cast out of the Garden and now eternally separated from his presence due to sins. Now back to Egypt, the Spirit inspired Moses to tell the true story creation in which God exists before and outside of creation itself neither was creation made from his material body. He is a Spirit. That he alone is the one true God. The days are immaterial but that Egyptian creation myths also involved creation days well the Hebrews had just received salvation from their Egyptian bondage and now no doubt awaited fundamental reprogramming and re-education in the monotheism of Yahweh. YEC? OEC? ID? Creationism? Theistic Evolution? Does any of this really matter in regards to the Bible, the Gospel, and one's personal faith in Christ.

Please watch this video with open heart:

There are several verses in the bible that indicates God has a physical form and also a spiritual nature.

Genesis teaches God formed man out of the dust .... created in His own image .... that would include both physical and character. That is not to say God's physical appearance is exactly like mans but similar. ie the written tablets by the finger of God.

The Egyptians did believe they were immortal. Humans are not immortal, we die earthly death, but will be resurrected when the Lord returns. The bible describes death as a dormant sleep .... a sleep .... because ALL will be resurrected one day ... some to eternal life .... some condemned to the 2nd death (eternal death).

It does matter .... if one does not believe the creation story as written in Genesis then they can (and do) look at other possible ways of how humanity came into being (and many do that)

Spirit of God

The Holy Spirit is fully God, more than an influence or a force. He has the personhood and mind of God, and performs a special duty to help us connect with God the Father. The Spirit also guides us in our lives. He was sent by Christ as the personal presence of God for those dwelling on earth.

Worship the creator

If one does not worship God as the creator of everything .... then one is worshiping (serving) the creature rather than the creator.

Romans 1:25
Because they exchanged the truth of God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, Who is blessed forever! Amen (so be it).

 

[Ephesians321]

There are several verses in the bible that indicates God has a physical form and also a spiritual nature.

Genesis teaches God formed man out of the dust .... created in His own image .... that would include both physical and character. That is not to say God's physical appearance is exactly like mans but similar. ie the written tablets by the finger of God.

The Egyptians did believe they were immortal. Humans are not immortal, we die earthly death, but will be resurrected when the Lord returns. The bible describes death as a dormant sleep .... a sleep .... because ALL will be resurrected one day ... some to eternal life .... some condemned to the 2nd death (eternal death).

It does matter .... if one does not believe the creation story as written in Genesis then they can (and do) look at other possible ways of how humanity came into being (and many do that)

Spirit of God

The Holy Spirit is fully God, more than an influence or a force. He has the personhood and mind of God, and performs a special duty to help us connect with God the Father. The Spirit also guides us in our lives. He was sent by Christ as the personal presence of God for those dwelling on earth.

Worship the creator

If one does not worship God as the creator of everything .... then one is worshiping (serving) the creature rather than the creator.

Romans 1:25
Because they exchanged the truth of God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, Who is blessed forever! Amen (so be it).

I do not believe Adam and Eve were ever immortal but suffered a spiritual death, a Hadean death. An eternal separation from God. And I do not believe in a physical resurrection either but that is another topic for another thread altogether.

However, all the ancient Egyptian creation myths are vastly different but also share shockingly similar narratives with Genesis 1-2 combined with the historical fact Hebrews lived 400 years in and enslaved by the Egypt begs the question should Christianity even bother making a huge fuss over the poetic language of the Creation account found in Genesis chapters one and two by raising contention with science??? Is it wasteful energy and exercise in futility rather than focusing on Christ and the Gospel??? That Christianity should put they full energy into preaching and sharing Gospel rather than prove science is wrong and that people's instutional education on prehistory and the origins of man is wrong.

By all means please watch video and/or investigate the several Egyptian creation myths. IIRC, the video is only 8 and half minutes long.

 

[BobRyan]

Since converting to full preterism and the belief Adam and Eve only experienced spiritual death as in Hadean death the day they ate of the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. That they weren't created immortal. The reconciliation between science and the two first chapters of Genesis diminished greatly. Afterall the ancients Hebrews were under Egyptian bondage for hundreds of years, and were no doubt familiar with Egyptian creation myths and maybe even accepted them.

In Gen 2 "for in the day you eat thereof - dying you shall die". In other words "you begin dying on that very day".

They had forgotten the name of God too. In regards to Genesis what I take from it now, is that God rested after creation, Adam and Eve were children of God who sinned, cast out of the Garden and now eternally separated from his presence due to sins. Now back to Egypt, the Spirit inspired Moses to tell the true story creation in which God exists before and outside of creation itself neither was creation made from his material body. He is a Spirit. That he alone is the one true God. The days are immaterial

In Genesis 1 the days are not immaterial.
In Genesis 2:1-3 - the days are not immaterial
In Ex 20:11 legal code for the Sabbath commandment points directly the the Gen 2:1-3 fact that the days are most certainly not immaterial.

"six days you shall labor ... for in six days God made the heavens and the Earth the seas and all that is in them" Ex 20:8-11

Gen 2: 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all His work which God had created and made."

But those 7 days only refer to this Earth and our solar system according to Genesis 1.

Is 66:23 for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship"
Ex 20:10 "the seventh day IS the Sabbath"
Ex 16 "Tomorrow IS the Sabbath"

For 40 years -- no manna fell on the Sabbath. (not a random day each week)

but that Egyptian creation myths also involved creation days well the Hebrews had just received salvation from their Egyptian bondage and now no doubt awaited fundamental reprogramming and re-education in the monotheism of Yahweh. YEC? OEC? ID? Creationism? Theistic Evolution? Does any of this really matter in regards to the Bible,

Depends on whether we are expected to believe what the Bible teaches for its doctrine on origins.

2 Peter 1:20-21 "no text of scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation - but holy men of old - moved by the Holy Spirit - spoke from God"

How "ignorant" were we supposed to think God actually was at the time that Genesis and Exodus were penned?

========================

The 7 day week, the weekly Sabbath - remind us that all the creation myths of mankind are foolish -- on the Bible presents the historic account - where a perfect God creates a perfect sinless, deathless Paradise Earth - is in personal communication with Adam and Eve.

Then when Adam sins -- going from a sinless state to a sinful nature state - God provides the Gospel. And finally in Rev 21-22 restores us to the Eden Paradise state of Earth.

============================

from: The Firmiter of Lateran IV in Its Historical Context Defines the Fiat Creation of All Things – Kolbe Center for the Study of Creation.

Lateran IV -- 1215 AD
"The original, plain sense of simul in Lateran IV indicated that God created all of the different kinds of corporeal and angelic creatures “at once from the beginning of time.” This was compatible with St. Augustine’s speculative instantaneous creation or with the majority view of the Fathers who taught that everything was created in six natural days. But it was totally incompatible with a longer creation period. Even at the end of the nineteenth century, the editor of the Catholic Theological Dictionary, Fr. A. Vacant, observed that “This meaning of simultaneity of date had been adopted, without any hesitation, by almost all the earlier theologians. Some, such as Sylvestre de Ferrare, claimed it should be held as de fide since Lat. IV”[7] As an example of simul meaning a relative simultaneity of time,"

 

[Ephesians321]

In Gen 2 "for in the day you eat thereof - dying you shall die". In other words "you begin dying on that very day".

In Genesis 1 the days are not immaterial.
In Genesis 2:1-3 - the days are not immaterial
In Ex 20:11 legal code for the Sabbath commandment points directly the the Gen 2:1-3 fact that the days are most certainly not immaterial.

"six days you shall labor ... for in six days God made the heavens and the Earth the seas and all that is in them" Ex 20:8-11

Gen 2: 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all His work which God had created and made."

But those 7 days only refer to this Earth and our solar system according to Genesis 1.

Is 66:23 for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship"
Ex 20:10 "the seventh day IS the Sabbath"
Ex 16 "Tomorrow IS the Sabbath"

For 40 years -- no manna fell on the Sabbath. (not a random day each week)

Depends on whether we are expected to believe what the Bible teaches for its doctrine on origins.

2 Peter 1:20-21 "no text of scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation - but holy men of old - moved by the Holy Spirit - spoke from God"

How "ignorant" were we supposed to think God actually was at the time that Genesis and Exodus were penned?

========================

The 7 day week, the weekly Sabbath - remind us that all the creation myths of mankind are foolish -- on the Bible presents the historic account - where a perfect God creates a perfect sinless, deathless Paradise Earth - is in personal communication with Adam and Eve.

Then when Adam sins -- going from a sinless state to a sinful nature state - God provides the Gospel. And finally in Rev 21-22 restores us to the Eden Paradise state of Earth.

Yeah and you just contradicted yourself in the (exact same) day (beyom) you eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall die... check the Hebrew word usage of beyom it literally means same day, instantly. Not 950 years later. Adam instantly lost his eternal inheritance and died a sin death. Sin instantly separated God and man both in his mortal flesh and in his immortal spirit.

 

[Laodicean60]

I always wondered where Moses acquired the Genesis account since it predated him by several hundred years, Did he find an old scroll?

 

[Ephesians321]

I always wondered where Moses acquired the Genesis account since it predated him by several hundred years, Did he find an old scroll?

No I believe the Genesis account is Spirit inspired but I also believe it is God revealing himself on a relevant understandable level with the Hebrews about the truth of Himself that he alone is God, he is eternal, he is before creation and not a part of creation itself, and he is outside of creation. But you see the Hebrews were in Egypt for 400 years and alot of those years in bondage to slavery. But all of the Egyptian creation myths there was only darkness then light appeared (or even a word), the earth was formless and void, and their gods hovered over the waters, land rose out and separated the waters, etc, etc. And their gods created the heavens and the earth in day cycles too.

 

[BobRyan]

Yeah and you just contradicted yourself in the (exact same) day (beyom) you eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall die

And that word in Hebrew means "dying you shall die" which is a reference to the dying process starting.

... check the Hebrew word usage of beyom it literally means same day

The issue is not the word "day" since all view of this "dying you shall die" is a reference to the exact same day as they ate - they would start to die.

The issue is the word for die. One form means "instantly die" and the other word means "start dying".

he operative phrase in Gen 2:17 consists of just two words in Hebrew - both slightly different forms of the same verb, "to die", namely מֹ֥ות תָּמֽוּת = mowt tamut The two words in the Hebrew are: מ֥וֹת = verb qal infinitive absolute תָּמֽוּת = 2nd verb qal imperfect 2nd person masculine singular Thus, it is literally, "die die"; or "dying die".

But in Gen 3 - the word Eve uses - the one for instantly die. She left out the detail for "dying you shall die" that is found in Genesis 2.

 

[BobRyan]

I always wondered where Moses acquired the Genesis account

2 Tim 3:16 "ALL scripture is given by inspiration from God and is to be used for doctrine"
2 Peter 1:21 "no text of scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation - but holy men of old - moved by the Holy Spirit - spoke from God"

since it predated him by several hundred years, Did he find an old scroll?

Nope - that is not what the Bible says about inspired writing.

 

[Ephesians321]

And that word in Hebrew means "dying you shall die" which is a reference to the dying process starting.

The issue is not the word "day" since all view of this "dying you shall die" is a reference to the exact same day as they ate - they would start to die.

The issue is the word for die. One form means "instantly die" and the other word means "start dying".

he operative phrase in Gen 2:17 consists of just two words in Hebrew - both slightly different forms of the same verb, "to die", namely מֹ֥ות תָּמֽוּת = mowt tamut The two words in the Hebrew are: מ֥וֹת = verb qal infinitive absolute תָּמֽוּת = 2nd verb qal imperfect 2nd person masculine singular Thus, it is literally, "die die"; or "dying die".

But in Gen 3 - the word Eve uses - the one for instantly die. She left out the detail for "dying you shall die" that is found in Genesis 2.

That is not how Hebrew double verb constructions work and that is was completely made-up by very poor Hebrew scholarship!

Apparently, there was several hundred years separating the eating of the forbidden fruit and their physical death. Remember, Adam lived to be 930 years old. God told the couple that in the day they eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, they would die. They did not die “physically” that day. Did God lie? No! They did die “spiritually” that very day. Why did Adam and Eve not die physically that very day? Physical death was not the punishment. Both Adam and Eve were created mortal, not immortal. They were created with a digestive tract and a stomach. If they did not eat food they would die physically. In spite of the plain teaching of the text in Genesis, the presupposition held by many scholars does not allow for a plain reading of the text.

There is no hint of two “kinds of death” being threatened in Genesis 2:15f. Remember, the Scripture states, “In the day that you eat, you will surely die.” It does not indicate nor imply two kinds of death, which deaths would be separated in time by hundreds of years. Why is it that Adam and Eve died spiritually in the very day they sinned just as God had threatened? Yet, they did not die physically for several hundred years later. To posit physical death as the death of Adam literally demands a huge time gap between the time of eating and physical death, which violates the language.

What day did Adam and Eve know good and evil?

Also what day and what purpose was behind the substitutionary animals?

Where in the passage does it suggest that God ever said I will cut short your life just shy of a 1,000 years? And what kind of punishment of death in the day you eat of is that really?

 

[Ephesians321]

So did Adam die on the day he ate of the fruit? A mortal Adam suffered a spiritual, Hadean death or sin death on the very same day.

Or did Adam die many days after he ate of the fruit? A once immortal Adam finally succumbed to physical death approximately on the 339,450th day after he ate the fruit.

 

[Job 33:6]

Since converting to full preterism and the belief Adam and Eve only experienced spiritual death as in Hadean death the day they ate of the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. That they weren't created immortal. The reconciliation between science and the two first chapters of Genesis diminished greatly. Afterall the ancients Hebrews were under Egyptian bondage for hundreds of years, and were no doubt familiar with Egyptian creation myths and maybe even accepted them. They had forgotten the name of God too. In regards to Genesis what I take from it now, is that God rested after creation, Adam and Eve were children of God who sinned, cast out of the Garden and now eternally separated from his presence due to sins. Now back to Egypt, the Spirit inspired Moses to tell the true story creation in which God exists before and outside of creation itself neither was creation made from his material body. He is a Spirit. That he alone is the one true God. The days are immaterial but that Egyptian creation myths also involved creation days well the Hebrews had just received salvation from their Egyptian bondage and now no doubt awaited fundamental reprogramming and re-education in the monotheism of Yahweh. YEC? OEC? ID? Creationism? Theistic Evolution? Does any of this really matter in regards to the Bible, the Gospel, and one's personal faith in Christ.

Please watch this video with open heart:

You might appreciate this:

 

[Ephesians321]

You might appreciate this:

THANK YOU! This is fascinating and eye-opening. This knowledge needs to be disseminated into the body of Christ. What a true blessing and gift of enlightenment. We need to wake up out of our fundamentalist / literalist "primordial" slumber.

 

[Laodicean60]

You might appreciate this:

I took the bible literally including Genesis like so many do but the more I read over it again I found you can't take it literally. I view the Old Testament as History. Where do you and Ephesians321 view the Old Testament? I am having a hard time asking this question without sounding like a heathen. lol I take proverbs literally. BTW thx for another good video.

 

[Ephesians321]

I took the bible literally including Genesis like so many do but the more I read over it again I found you can't take it literally. I view the Old Testament as History. Where do you and Ephesians321 view the Old Testament? I am having a hard time asking this question without sounding like a heathen. lol I take proverbs literally. BTW thx for another good video.

The Old Testament is a real genuine history text but you have to careful how you tread and treat the first 11 chapters of Genesis they reveal deep genuine spiritual revelation and truths about God, creation, and us the human race but there are Egyptian influences found in it that has convinced me it is one part tribal oral traditions and one part ancient Yahwehist polemic against heathen false gods and their false creation myths. The whole Old Testament is basically Christ veiled and the New Testament is Christ revealed.

 

[Job 33:6]

I took the bible literally including Genesis like so many do but the more I read over it again I found you can't take it literally. I view the Old Testament as History. Where do you and Ephesians321 view the Old Testament? I am having a hard time asking this question without sounding like a heathen. lol I take proverbs literally. BTW thx for another good video.

Yea. It's pretty much impossible to sincerely take Genesis "literally". In the sense that we try to read it in a modern context. For example, Genesis 7;11 and 8:2 describe windows opening and closing in the sky to release the celestial waters above from the first chapter of Genesis.

I think that the best thing someone can do is, read the text in its original context. And acknowledge what it's saying in that historical context.

If it says, God created heaven and earth. You can't read it like a NASA enlightened modern person. Earth is not a sphere in the Bible. You have to read it in its original context, as it would have been understood by its original authors. Earth rests upon pillars atop Sheol with a raqia dome over and above.

Once people are aware of ancient near Eastern cosmology and context of Genesis, it can no longer rationally be read "literally".

But really, literally should mean "as the author intended it to mean". If the Bible says that God is a rock, we read it as the original author intended it to be understood. We don't try to ask what type of rock, is it made of sand or gravel? To read it literally would be to read it as the original author intended it to be read.


And so sometimes reading it literally, would mean accepting that the author intended to describe something like a phenomenological perspective. The Earth looks flat to the average person, therefore the biblical authors, when they spoke of the Earth in the Old Testament, they were describing it from their perspective. That's just how they viewed earth.


And that's the only way the Bible, or the Old Testament in particular will ever make sense to anyone. To read it, as the original authors intended.

And if the authors intended to describe history, then that's what it is. But it's still history written through their perspective, and that has to be taken into account.

 

[Ephesians321]

Yea. It's pretty much impossible to sincerely take Genesis "literally". In the sense that we try to read it in a modern context. For example, Genesis 7;11 and 8:2 describe windows opening and closing in the sky to release the celestial waters above from the first chapter of Genesis.

I think that the best thing someone can do is, read the text in its original context. And acknowledge what it's saying in that historical context.

If it says, God created heaven and earth. You can't read it like a NASA enlightened modern person. Earth is not a sphere in the Bible. You have to read it in its original context, as it would have been understood by its original authors. Earth rests upon pillars stop Sheol with a raqia dome over and above.

Once people are aware of ancient near Eastern cosmology and context of Genesis, it can no longer rationally be read "literally".

But really, literally should mean "as the author intended it to mean". If the Bible says that God is a rock, we read it as the original author intended it to be understood. We don't try to ask what type of rock, is it made of sand or gravel? To read it literally would be to read it as the original author intended it to be read.


And so sometimes reading it literally, would mean accepting that the author intended to describe something like a phenomenological perspective. The Earth looks flat to the average person, therefore the biblical authors, when they spoke of the Earth in the Old Testament, they were describing it from their perspective. That's just how they viewed earth.


And that's the only way the Bible, or the Old Testament in particular will ever make sense to anyone. To read it, as the original authors intended.

And if the authors intended to describe history, then that's what it is. But it's still history written through their perspective, and that has to be taken into account.

Well said brother!

 

[SuperCow]

I always wondered where Moses acquired the Genesis account since it predated him by several hundred years, Did he find an old scroll?

Assuming that he didn't directly acquire it from God as many believe, there are several options. But first of all, Genesis 1 could only have been passed along by God, but not necessarily to Moses. It could have been told to Adam, who passed it down to the generations and people who would listen through Enoch and Noah.

From Noah, we have 10 generations to Abraham, but Noah didn't die until Abraham was about 58, and Shem outlived Abraham by about 35 years. (Isaac and Jacob were both alive at this point.) The story could have just been passed down the generations of Israel until Moses. (Who, though he was raised by an Egyptian princess, was nursed by his natural mother according to Exodus.)

But if the oppression of the Jews was too much for the story to be reliably transmitted, it could have arrived to Moses during his exile from Egypt in the land of Midian. Midian was a son of Abraham from his wife Keturah, whom he married after Sarah died. (Genesis 25:2) Moses father-in-law Jethro (who was a Midianite), is called a priest in Exodus 3:1, and was an advisor to Moses post-Exodus during the time in the wilderness.

So, even 1500 years after creation, there is a clear line of potential knowledge to pass down to Moses.

 

[Job 33:6]

I tend to view Moses as the author of the Pentateuch, including Genesis. And with that, Genesis is theological revelation, coated in an ancient near eastern temple inauguration text.

I don't think Genesis originated with Adam and Eve. Because Adam and Eve are Hebrew names, Hebrew words. Hebrew didn't even exist at the dawn of time.

And Genesis holds many similarities with neighboring cultures temple construction and inauguration texts.