Flat Earth V.S Round Earth? (Also helio/geocentrism)

[christianpessimist]

On precisely what basis have you decided that doctrinal heresy is grounds for excommunication but "general truth heresy" - such as claiming the earth is flat - is not?

I am interested in reading your answer.

Because it is extremely more dangerous to tell someone Jesus is not the messaiah than to tell them the earth is flat.

 

[LordDuncanBurneWilke]

Because it is extremely more dangerous to tell someone Jesus is not the messaiah than to tell them the earth is flat.

What about implying that salvation is dependent on believing the earth is flat like a poster did yesterday?

 

[christianpessimist]

What about implying that salvation is dependent on believing the earth is flat like a poster did yesterday?

I'll be honest in saying that I don't know how I'd handle that.

If it is "Believing the earth is flat is necessary for salvation" then that is heresy.

If it is "If you believe on Christ, then by extension you will also believe the other truths the bible teaches - one of which being the earth is flat" then it's just a matter of disagreement which happens in any and all churches.

It's true: if we believe the gospel then by extension we will also believe truth. But we are fallen creatures and so our interpretations lead us to untrue things sometimes. I can bet my soul on Jesus dying so that anyone who believes on him will be saved. But I won't bet my soul on the earth being round or flat.

EDIT: Sorry if my wording is really awkward. I haven't slept much last night and I'm pretty tired right now.

 

[Colter]

Your reasoning is poor. Jesus was, is, and will always be a Jew. What most people like you fail to realize is that the new testament was not around when Jesus was alive: it was still being written. Therefore the scriptures that Jesus and His disciples quoted from we the old testament only and that has never changed.
Your title says that you're a Christian seeker...Wouldn't that indicate that you have not yet found Christ?

I found Christ long ago. I've never believed God wrote the Bible books. The Bible isn't God, its a series of books about God as understood in different ages by people of faith. An olden Prophet saw this day when God would write his laws on our heart.

Jesus is, was and will always be the Son of God. He selected a semetic people with a monotheistic God concept to launch his original gospel to ALL the world, not just an arrogant, self proclaimed chosen few.

 

[expos4ever]

Because it is extremely more dangerous to tell someone Jesus is not the messaiah than to tell them the earth is flat.

How do you conclude this? Buying into the flat earth is to lie. You don't think unrepentant lying is a problem? And consider where distrust of science leads. From "innocent" flat earth craziness to:

1. Global warming denial;
2. Vaccine rejection.

Each of these, especially the first, will almost certainly result in many deaths.

This is not a big problem in your view?

 

[LordDuncanBurneWilke]

I found Christ long ago. I've never believed God wrote the Bible books. The Bible isn't God, its a series of books about God as understood in different ages by people of faith. An olden Prophet saw this day when God would write his laws on our heart.

Jesus is, was and will always be the Son of God. He selected a semetic people with a monotheistic God concept to launch his original gospel to ALL the world, not just an arrogant, self proclaimed chosen few.

Wonderful to see such clarity.

 

[Colter]

There's a 'this' referenced in that sentence, and the 'this' is the rock He's referencing.



If that's your response, I doubt it's a spirit of truth guiding you. I think it's more likely you are just following yourself around.

"This" is in context as God the Father.

I guess then you pray to the Bible and not God who is present?????

If I were just following myself around it would be a better guide than a book that teaches killing prisoners of war, men women and children......with the acception of the virgin female children who the soldiers get to molest themselves. I pick and choose to leave that behavior to the savages who wrote it!

 

[JacksBratt]

OK. Here is my opinion. Such a question is silly, silly, silly. The only people who could believe in a flat earth are uneducated savages or mentally ill conspiracy theorists who absolutely disbelieve in scientific facts. and it is always quite round, as is every planet in our solar system (and sun and moon as well). No scientist would consider our earth to be flat. It is why we have horizons and cannot “see to the ends of the earth” even with the best telescopes. There is in fact no end of the earth because it is quite easy to circumnavigate the globe, which is done constantly by airplanes and sometimes by ships (remember Magellan?).

But yes, some people still insist on living in the ignorant worldview of a thousand years ago.

Firstly, I believe that the earth is a globe. However, I have to ask, have you questioned it and looked into it?

As people usually say, "if you have not researched or investigated the view, you have no right to criticize it"

Here is a response to two of your "solid" proofs.


"We have a millions of photos from space satellites, etc. showing the earth from space,"

Sorry........but they are all CGI. Even the one from Apollo 11 was taken out the window of the command module in low earth orbit. The window was round which gave the earth the globe appearance. The video of them doing this is on Youtube.

NASA has admitted that the pictures of earth from space are ALL CGI because....and I quote, "They have to be"

Also, look at the 8 different pictures of the CGI globe and you will notice that in each one the size of North America is different.

We have absolutely no pictures of the earth from space that prove it's a globe.
We have many pictures of the earth from low earth obit, taken with "fish eye" lenses....

A fish eye lens will give the view of any straight line as curved due to its nature.


Come on people, NASA, stop using fish eye lenses to take pictures of the earth.

NASA can easily extinguish this myth. All they have to do is take a video of the earth, spinning, in real time, that is NOT CGI.

"it is quite easy to circumnavigate the globe"

Circumnavigation is also possible on a the flat earth model.

In fact all the experiments that supposedly prove the earth is a globe actually work to prove that the sun shines on the earth at different angles, only. All of them fail at proving that the earth is round.

 

[christianpessimist]

How do you conclude this? Buying into the flat earth is to lie. You don't think unrepentant lying is a problem? And consider where distrust of science leads. From "innocent" flat earth craziness to:

1. Global warming denial;
2. Vaccine rejection.

Each of these, especially the first, will almost certainly result in many deaths.

This is not a big problem in your view?

Those exist as their own issues separate from the flat earth model.

 

[SeventyOne]

"This" is in context as God the Father.

I guess then you pray to the Bible and not God who is present?????

If I were just following myself around it would be a better guide than a book that teaches killing prisoners of war, men women and children......with the acception of the virgin female children who the soldiers get to molest themselves. I pick and choose to leave that behavior to the savages who wrote it!

I know you pick and choose, that's been my point. You have set yourself in a place of judgment over scripture.

 

[expos4ever]

Those exist as their own issues separate from the flat earth model.

How can you not see the connection? - distrust of science is the uniting theme. If someone can believe the earth is flat, they can also be conned into believing that the earth is not warming up due to human activity.

And this places billions of people at risk.

 

[Code Phox]

The force of gravity diminishes as the inverse square of the distance between the centres of gravity of the objects --- Newton made that discovery 400 years ago. A satellite in low earth orbit is about 4000 miles from the centre of the earth whereas the moon is about 240,000 miles. The force of gravity is dramatically less meaning that much less speed is required to maintain the orbit.

Have you tested the ratio for distance between objects and their orbits to check if it's proportional with other orbiting systems? For example, GPS satellites and the Moon's orbiting speed around Earth compaired to the speed of objects orbiting around the Sun like Earth and Pluto?

 

[expos4ever]

Here is the thing: People are trying to make scientific "arguments" for the spherical earth. I appreciate the effort and the motive, but this approach arguably plays into the hands of the tinfoil-hat crowd. By actually trying to make the case yourself for a spherical earth, you are perhaps implicitly saying "we can't trust the experts so I have to convince you myself".

That's a problem and here's why: While you no doubt can make the case for a spherical earth, you (and I) certainly are not qualified to make the case for global warming. Or evolution. Those are too complex for regular schmoes like us. Yet these, especially evolution, are basically facts.

We need to respect the well-earned reputation of science. While there are some matters that are still undecided by the scientists, other, like evolution and almost certainly human-caused global warming, are settled.

 

[christianpessimist]

How can you not see the connection? - distrust of science is the uniting theme. If someone can believe the earth is flat, they can also be conned into believing that the earth is not warming up due to human activity.

And this places billions of people at risk.

I really want to keep the discussion strictly about the shape of the earth.

I get what you're saying. I really do. But that's kind of a slippery slope.

 

[Shard]

But I've noticed lately that there are a surprising number of Christians who hold to the flat earth/geocentric model.

This just in: A lot of christians believe a lot of various dumb things. I mean have you seen charismatics/pentecostals have 'church'?

 

[Colter]

I know you pick and choose, that's been my point. You have set yourself in a place of judgment over scripture.

The people who put Jesus through a trumped up trial and tried to kill him also hid behind the false doctrine of inspiration. They were also moral and intellectual cowards.

Judgment day:

God: Hey Colter, how come you didn't believe that I wrote the scripture?

Colter: Because, it portrayed you in a very poor light, so I defended your character to book worshipers. It said you were both good and evil and has some of THE most ridiculous history which heavily favored the culture who wrote it.

God: Ya-right!? High fives Colter, thanks for having the courage to defend me to people who thought they were doing a service to me when they killed the prophets and finally my Son then transferring that same corruption into the institutional church. .........oh, BTW, the world really is flat, I worked with NASA, I put lieing spirits into them!

Colter: Naw-way!

God: sike!! ......ha ha, got you...

Colter: Awwww dude!...

 

[Code Phox]

If the scriptures are horribly inconsistent, then on what basis are you trusting in the goodness of God or truth you claim to be following. What is your foundation? Are you just picking and choosing the scriptures that feel right to you and declaring those as truth, while rejecting all else?

Do you think a witness to a crime make statements that are consistent with other witnesses? They usually don't, does that make them unreliable sources of information in solving the crime?

 

[SeventyOne]

Do you think a witness to a crime make statements that are consistent with other witnesses? They usually don't, does that make them unreliable sources of information in solving the crime?

I assume your point is concerning the eyewitness nature of the gospels. I expect them to be consistent, which they are, many have harmonized them and I've done some of that myself.

I also expect them to be infallible because unlike other eyewitness accounts, these would have been inspired by the Spirit to accurately point to Jesus. In this way, they would differ from any other type of eyewitness account.

 

[Code Phox]

We need to respect the well-earned reputation of science. While there are some matters that are still undecided by the scientists, other, like evolution and almost certainly human-caused global warming, are settled.

"People Live their Lives bound by what they accept as correct and true. That is how they define "Reality". But what does it mean to be "correct" or "true"? They are merely vague concepts... Their "Reality" may all be a mirage (a lie). Can we consider them to be simply living in their own world, shaped by their beliefs?" -- Itachi Uchiha

Careful, I back up my beliefs with my own thinking. Not someone else's. I can explain why I disagree with concepts like Evolution because I have invested the time into it myself and have come to my own conclusions. You can't reply on someone else's answer on a test and expect to get a passing grade, but that's what you seem to be doing.

 

[expos4ever]

I really want to keep the discussion strictly about the shape of the earth.

I appreciate what you are saying, but I believe that even having the conversation with these people only serves to give a whiff of credibility to a frankly inane position. And I consider it appropriate to make those kind of meta-arguments. If the moderators insist I desist, I will obey.