Flat Earth V.S Round Earth? (Also helio/geocentrism)

[expos4ever]

I hope I haven't come off as mean spiritted so far.

I think you are being too polite. Flat-earthers need to be politely shown the door from the church - they are too much of a liability to the reputation of the gospel.

Enough silliness is enough.

 

[High Fidelity]

So, ignore them then.



The distrust is of scientists, not science. Not only that, but, from what I see, science is a bullet train with a destination that does one thing........ remove God from the picture.

Scientists have an agenda that is bold and obvious.... It is to constantly rule out a superior being.

At this point in time we should be vigilant in testing and questioning anything that is presented to us, by the scientific groups, as a truth..... We should trust nothing we are told.



The disaster for the human race would be to blindly follow the words and teachings of men. Especially if it contradicts the word of God.

Don't need to be a scientist to see. Fly high enough and you can see. Launch a model rocket powerful enough with cameras and you can see too.

 

[christianpessimist]

I think you are being too polite. Flat-earthers need to be politely shown the door from the church

Sorry, no. There are genuine believers on both sides. That shouldn't even be a consideration.

 

[SeventyOne]

Here is my economic proof for a spherical earth...

The airlines count every penny! They are about economy to the fullest. They do not waste money.

Well, here is the test:

Put a flat map on table. Get some string. First, draw a straight line - using a ruler - from Seattle, Washington to Hannover, Germany. Cut a piece of string that length. Second, trace the path that airlines fly when they fly non-stop from Seattle to Hannover (you can see it on Flight Aware). You will notice that the path takes you over northern Canada, over Ireland, over London, en route to central Germany. Cut a piece of string that traces that path.

On the flat map - the "direct line" string is the shortest string. If the earth were indeed flat - that would be the route the airlines would take for sure. They are not into wasting money on anything. They would not fly a longer route to be part of a round earth conspiracy.

But, that is not the shortest route. If you take a globe - and do the same test - you will find that the shortest route is the polar route. The only reason this is true is because the earth was created by God as sphere.

I know Christian airline pilots. Men who love the word of God. One, in particular retired pilot who flew for Delta Airlines speaks in terms of the shorter nautical mile difference in flying - due to the earth's shape. It is a no-brainer. It is not a conspiracy that airlines want to fly the shortest routes possible.

I hope this humble submission is helpful in your thinking.

In all fairness, there are a number of videos out there where people demonstrate flight paths that make no sense. Such as why did an emergency landing in 2015 from a flight from Taiwan to LA land in Alaska, when it was farther away than either destination point on a globe, but right in the flight path on a flat map. And why do so many flights with southern hemisphere endpoints cross into the northern hemisphere along the route, nonsensical on a ball, straight path on a flat map.

There are issues still unresolved that I have with a flat earth model, but I know the proponents have addressed flight paths extensively, and current flight paths seem to reject the shortest route possible in many ways. Check it out for yourself.

Here's one thing I can't get my head around. When the question comes up as to how an eastbound flight, such as from LA to NY, traveling around 500 mph, can ever get to NY with the earth revolving about 1,000 mph beneath it. The typical answer is the plane has momentum at takeoff, so it's really traveling at the rotation speed + the engine speed. Ok, but most flights from LA take off to the west over the water, then would need to turn around, thus losing that implied momentum. So, if it's actual speed is 500 mph, how does it ever get to NY, or anywhere else for that matter?

 

[expos4ever]

Sorry, no. There are genuine believers on both sides. That shouldn't even be a consideration.

Why not? Surely we agree the Scriptures support excommunication of believers under certain circumstances. If patent denial of the truth - and encouraging others to embrace a lie - is not grounds, what is?

 

[christianpessimist]

When I really started looking at this some months back, I found some of the space footage really intriguing, like this one from today. It's the same rocket, but two different cameras. One camera shows a curved earth and the other shows it being flat. Who are we to believe? Camera 1 or camera 2.

View attachment 193879

The one on the left may be using some fish eye lens (I don't know much about camera, but I know some lenses distort the image) and the one on the right is bulging out ever so slightly, but it's being blocked by that orange thing.

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

My foundation is the rock that Jesus established his kingdom on. It was the same foundation that the apostles had unconsciously used to realize the identity of the Son. They were perhaps unaware of the rock until Jesus pointed it out.

Your reasoning is poor. Jesus was, is, and will always be a Jew. What most people like you fail to realize is that the new testament was not around when Jesus was alive: it was still being written. Therefore the scriptures that Jesus and His disciples quoted from we the old testament only and that has never changed.
Your title says that you're a Christian seeker...Wouldn't that indicate that you have not yet found Christ?

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

Oh please. Are you seriously expecting us to believe that the world is flat?

No one expects you to believe anything from anyone. Why don't you be more concerned about if you believe everything that is said in the Bible? When Joshua met the Angel of the Captain of YHWH's Army he asked the angel: Are on on Israel's side or the enemies? The Angel replied: I am the Captain of YHWH's Army. This response from the Angel showed that it's it about whether God is for us but, are we for God or ourselves?

 

[christianpessimist]

Why not? Surely we agree the Scriptures support excommunication of believers under certain circumstances. If patent denial of the truth - and encouraging others to embrace a lie - is not grounds, what is?

Because they haven't crossed in to heresy. If they were rejecting the trinity (I hope this doesn't start a different discussion) or claiming Jesus was not actually the messaiah as John Hagee has then the foundation for that Christian fellowship is broken. If we can allow unbelievers in to a church for them to hear the gospel, I think we can also allow other believers who believe the earth is a different shape than what we think it is.

 

[SeventyOne]

Why not? Surely we agree the Scriptures support excommunication of believers under certain circumstances. If patent denial of the truth - and encouraging others to embrace a lie - is not grounds, what is?

Like promoting evolution?

 

[Colter]

Good. The rock is the truth Peter confessed, that Jesus was the Christ and the Son of the living God.

But the question remains, how do you even know that conversation took place? If scripture can't be trusted as accurate, and the men who wrote it as potentially untrustworthy, why do you even think Matthew was accurate with that account?

The rock was the Father bearing witness to the truth. That's the context of the exchange.

17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.


The spirit of truth informs my beliefs. I don't profess to believe things that I don't believe. The Bible has conflicting accounts of the same events. It portrays God in a dim light, but it does get better over the ages and different books.

 

[LordDuncanBurneWilke]

The spirit of truth informs my beliefs. I don't profess to believe things that I don't believe. The Bible has conflicting accounts of the same events. It portrays God in a dim light, but it does get better over the ages and different books.

 

[Colter]

According to the Bible the written word began with Moses. But believers today imply that without the scripture no one would know what to believe. It's like they might wonder out into chariot trafic and get run over as they were incapable of spiritual and moral perception on their own.

 

[1213]

...Do you believe the Earth is round or flat? What is your evidence?

I think it is good to first know, Bible says that ”earth” means dry land. It doesn’t say “and God called planet earth, it says:

God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters he called Seas. God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:10

And on basis of that, there was one sea and one continent that was called the earth. Now, Bible says also that the dry land was stretched over water or great deep.

To him that stretched out the earth above the waters:"
Psalms 136:6

That means, earth or dry land was like a shell on top of water. I think that can be seen as flat earth, although it was curved and it had mountain(s) and so it was not level plane.

Here are few pictures that show the principle:

http://www.kolumbus.fi/r.berg/geology.html

And this also explains how the great flood happened and why we have our current continents. The original continent collapsed and sunk.

But I wouldn’t say our planet is flat, even though the continents can be seen as relatively flat plates.

 

[SeventyOne]

The rock was the Father bearing witness to the truth. That's the context of the exchange.

17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.

There's a 'this' referenced in that sentence, and the 'this' is the rock He's referencing.

The spirit of truth informs my beliefs. I don't profess to believe things that I don't believe. The Bible has conflicting accounts of the same events. It portrays God in a dim light, but it does get better over the ages and different books.

If that's your response, I doubt it's a spirit of truth guiding you. I think it's more likely you are just following yourself around.

 

[expos4ever]

No one expects you to believe anything from anyone. Why don't you be more concerned about if you believe everything that is said in the Bible? When Joshua met the Angel of the Captain of YHWH's Army he asked the angel: Are on on Israel's side or the enemies? The Angel replied: I am the Captain of YHWH's Army. This response from the Angel showed that it's it about whether God is for us but, are we for God or ourselves?

I have no idea what you are saying.

 

[LordDuncanBurneWilke]

I have no idea what you are saying.

I ran into the same problem yesterday.

 

[expos4ever]

Because they haven't crossed in to heresy.

On precisely what basis have you decided that doctrinal heresy is grounds for excommunication but "general truth heresy" - such as claiming the earth is flat - is not?

I am interested in reading your answer.

 

[expos4ever]

Like promoting evolution?

That's funny, I have to admit.

Evolution is as much a fact as a spherical earth. In both cases - evolution denial and flat-earth belief - clear, settled science is rejected simply because people do not accept what I am sure almost all Biblical scholars - and I mean the real ones, not the ones who have a diploma by mail from some shack in Tennessee - believe: the Scriptures make use of literary device.

 

[JackRT]

Here is my economic proof for a spherical earth...

The airlines count every penny! They are about economy to the fullest. They do not waste money.

Well, here is the test:

Put a flat map on table. Get some string. First, draw a straight line - using a ruler - from Seattle, Washington to Hannover, Germany. Cut a piece of string that length. Second, trace the path that airlines fly when they fly non-stop from Seattle to Hannover (you can see it on Flight Aware). You will notice that the path takes you over northern Canada, over Ireland, over London, en route to central Germany. Cut a piece of string that traces that path.

On the flat map - the "direct line" string is the shortest string. If the earth were indeed flat - that would be the route the airlines would take for sure. They are not into wasting money on anything. They would not fly a longer route to be part of a round earth conspiracy.

But, that is not the shortest route. If you take a globe - and do the same test - you will find that the shortest route is the polar route. The only reason this is true is because the earth was created by God as sphere.

I know Christian airline pilots. Men who love the word of God. One, in particular retired pilot who flew for Delta Airlines speaks in terms of the shorter nautical mile difference in flying - due to the earth's shape. It is a no-brainer. It is not a conspiracy that airlines want to fly the shortest routes possible.

I hope this humble submission is helpful in your thinking.

This past New Year's Eve my daughter flew from Toronto To Hong Kong. Her flight route took her almost due north over Hudson Bay across the Canadian Arctic and close to the North Pole then south over Siberia, Mongolia and China to Hong Kong. The Great Circle Route is the shortest distance between two points on a globe.