Fear of Hell and Faith

[IAMANOBODY2015]

His love is his son. When you suffer, know he too has. When you feel unloved, know he has loved you. When you question the point of being alive, know that he shows you the purpose. Read about some orthodox Saints like Isaac the syrian, Seraphim of Sarov and Starets Silouan rather then preachers like John Piper and Macarthur. The orthodox Saints mentioned shows us christianity as a LIFE.

I will do that. Thanks

 

[FormerTweaker]

Thank you for all the replies and advice/encouragement everyone.

His love is his son. When you suffer, know he too has. When you feel unloved, know he has loved you. When you question the point of being alive, know that he shows you the purpose. Read about some orthodox Saints like Isaac the syrian, Seraphim of Sarov and Starets Silouan rather then preachers like John Piper and Macarthur. The orthodox Saints mentioned shows us christianity as a LIFE.

I tend to agree with John Piper's interpretation of scripture. I wish I did not see Calvinistic views in scripture but i tend to. What do you see him as being wrong about?

 

[Victor E.]

Does anyone else have their faith in God based highly off of fear of Hell?

I have love of Jesus for dying for me and creating me. And was first drawn to the gospel by something else than fear of Hell. It was hope he'd remove a demon from me and something else long and complicated.

But fear of Hell has kept me from sinning and straying from the faith more than all else. I dislike some doctrines in the Bible, but I obey to submit to God just because he's God and out of fear of Hell. Not out of love. Things such as serving others and serving God by helping others has grown on me and I now do out of love for others and Him. He caused a change of heart in me. I am all for loving everyone too even our enemies. I agree with most of the New Testament. But I don't agree with some things in the Bible and the main reason I obey or don't support others doing them is fear of Hell. Makes me wonder how much I love God since some things in the Bible seem unfair to me.

I feel I need to change. I want a love of God to permeate my actions. Has anyone else went through this? What did you do to change?

It's only once we realize that eternal salvation is firmly anchored by faith in His Son, Jesus Christ, that we are free to grow into the sons and daughters that He wants us to be. Disciples who live as Christ Jesus lived in a way to effectively preach the gospel to all people.

It's a process full of spiritual hoops and stumbles, but love is better than fear. Love can only come from the thankfulness of the freedom in Christ Jesus. Theology will only take you so far, we have to experience it too!

 

[fide]

Does anyone else have their faith in God based highly off of fear of Hell?

I have love of Jesus for dying for me and creating me. And was first drawn to the gospel by something else than fear of Hell. It was hope he'd remove a demon from me and something else long and complicated.

But fear of Hell has kept me from sinning and straying from the faith more than all else. I dislike some doctrines in the Bible, but I obey to submit to God just because he's God and out of fear of Hell. Not out of love. Things such as serving others and serving God by helping others has grown on me and I now do out of love for others and Him. He caused a change of heart in me. I am all for loving everyone too even our enemies. I agree with most of the New Testament. But I don't agree with some things in the Bible and the main reason I obey or don't support others doing them is fear of Hell. Makes me wonder how much I love God since some things in the Bible seem unfair to me.

I feel I need to change. I want a love of God to permeate my actions. Has anyone else went through this? What did you do to change?

The fear of God is the right place to begin. Scripture confirms this:

Job 28:28 And he said to man, 'Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.'"

Psalm 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; a good understanding have all those who practice it. His praise endures for ever!

Prov 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Prov 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight.

Prov 15:33 The fear of the LORD is instruction in wisdom, and humility goes before honor.​

But God uses fear in order to bring about - to lead to - something more worthy, and lasting: eternal self-giving love.

1Jn 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and he who fears is not perfected in love.​

Yes, fear begins the journey away from sin and into righteousness, which leads to love - perfect and self-giving love. The journey is the important thing! A man must know that he is born to chose the right path, and to walk that path. On one path is the world, with many passing pleasures. On the other path is the way to life. It is the path of a disciple - a learner - of God's will, of Christ the Son who came to give us life. To travel that path, learning from Him, is to grow in knowledge, and wisdom, and peace, and love.

 

[beebert]

Thank you for all the replies and advice/encouragement everyone.



I tend to agree with John Piper's interpretation of scripture. I wish I did not see Calvinistic views in scripture but i tend to. What do you see him as being wrong about?

I do not have anything against Piper per se, but I think within Calvinism there is a tendency to not see the whole picture but to isolate passages to fit in a system. God is not a system nor a doctrine, he is a living God that can be experienced not only in scripture but within us. I think calvinism tends to objectify God.

 

[DiscipleEthan]

I have always thought that fear of hell is a motivating factor for faith. If you fear hell, then that draws you to the way to escape from hell, which is the cross of Christ. But a genuine faith also requires repentance and wanting to serve and obey Him.

 

[Light of the East]

The fear of God is the right place to begin. Scripture confirms this:

Job 28:28 And he said to man, 'Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.'"

Psalm 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; a good understanding have all those who practice it. His praise endures for ever!

Prov 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Prov 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight.

Prov 15:33 The fear of the LORD is instruction in wisdom, and humility goes before honor.​

But God uses fear in order to bring about - to lead to - something more worthy, and lasting: eternal self-giving love.

1Jn 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and he who fears is not perfected in love.​

Yes, fear begins the journey away from sin and into righteousness, which leads to love - perfect and self-giving love. The journey is the important thing! A man must know that he is born to chose the right path, and to walk that path. On one path is the world, with many passing pleasures. On the other path is the way to life. It is the path of a disciple - a learner - of God's will, of Christ the Son who came to give us life. To travel that path, learning from Him, is to grow in knowledge, and wisdom, and peace, and love.

Don't much agree with you. I have heard that the word "fear" as used in the verses you quote, has more to do with respecting our Father than standing there peeing your pants because you are terrified of what He is about to do to you.

In reading various publications from both the East and West, it is hard to ignore the fact that the West is consumed with God beating up sinners, while the East is more in tune with the idea of us being sons and daughters of God and our theosis making us like Him.

So which is it easier to love: someone whom you feel has your best interests at heart, who moves you to become the best person you can be, and who even chastens you in love and concern for your welfare (Eastern Christianity) or someone who will thump you every time you break one of the rules, who is ever-angry with sinners, and who causes bad things to happen to you (Western Christianity -especially the Medieval view of God)?

Perhaps if people were taught the love of God from the beginning instead of being pounded with daily threats of hell and being told how wretched they are and how God is just waiting to fry you, they would do things out of love for God. After all, think of someone in your life whom you really loved and respect and who you failed at some point in your life. No threats were necessary. You were shattered by what you had failed to do and how you let someone down whom you so deeply loved.

This is why Peter went out and wept - not just weeping but weeping bitterly.

"The respect of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom." Many times, sheer fear causes us to be like Luther, who was terrified by God because God as Father reminded Luther of his abusive father. Luther is said to have said the he often hated God, and that is understandable if God was to be truly like Luther's wretched earthly father.

 

[beebert]

As I said; read about Starets Silouan for example and see the difference from calvinist Christians. Then tell me who seems closest to Christ. To me there is no doubt who. Compare Seraphim of Sarov to John Calvin and see who behaved more like Christ. Calvin was a theocrat who ordered People to be killed. Not much agape and humility in that. Calvinism has a tendency to stay at the cross and to not dive in enough in to the resurrection and incarnation.

 

[beebert]

Also, if you tend to ser calvinism in scripture, there is a reason why you doubt God's love, since the calvinist God Only loves the elect, so basically isn't a loving God. 1 John 4 tells us differently.

 

[JacksBratt]

Does anyone else have their faith in God based highly off of fear of Hell?

I have love of Jesus for dying for me and creating me. And was first drawn to the gospel by something else than fear of Hell. It was hope he'd remove a demon from me and something else long and complicated.

But fear of Hell has kept me from sinning and straying from the faith more than all else. I dislike some doctrines in the Bible, but I obey to submit to God just because he's God and out of fear of Hell. Not out of love. Things such as serving others and serving God by helping others has grown on me and I now do out of love for others and Him. He caused a change of heart in me. I am all for loving everyone too even our enemies. I agree with most of the New Testament. But I don't agree with some things in the Bible and the main reason I obey or don't support others doing them is fear of Hell. Makes me wonder how much I love God since some things in the Bible seem unfair to me.

I feel I need to change. I want a love of God to permeate my actions. Has anyone else went through this? What did you do to change?

If you fear Hell, you must have faith in Hell..... right?

If there is a Hell, there is a Christ. If there is no Christ, there is no Hell.

So, you have no reason to fear hell if there is no Christ.

There is also no fear of Hell if there is a Christ.

Therefore, there is no need to fear Hell......

 

[John Hyperspace]

If your "faith" is based on fear; it isn't faith at all. It is fearfulness. The one who fears doesn't know God.

Mark 4:40 And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith?

Notice the list below, the "fearful" are at the head of the list, before "the unbelieving" and "the abominable" and everything else. Your faith is either based in love of God, or, fear of God. The former is unfeigned faith which is born of love (1 Timothy 1:5); the latter is as feigned as fake can be. It's the same as "obeying" a bully because you're afraid of him. It's not faith at all. It's not love. It's not respect. It's feigned faith born of fear.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[beebert]

If your "faith" is based on fear; it isn't faith at all. It is fearfulness. The one who fears doesn't know God.

Mark 4:40 And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith?

Notice the list below, the "fearful" are at the head of the list, before "the unbelieving" and "the abominable" and everything else. Your faith is either based in love of God, or, fear of God. The former is unfeigned faith which is born of love (1 Timothy 1:5); the latter is as feigned as fake can be. It's the same as "obeying" a bully because you're afraid of him. It's not faith at all. It's not love. It's not respect. It's feigned faith born of fear.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Do you find this a good way of helping people? Do you Think you magically have made him stop fearing God by saying that he is basically doomed because of his fear?

 

[Jim Langston]

Does anyone else have their faith in God based highly off of fear of Hell?

I have love of Jesus for dying for me and creating me. And was first drawn to the gospel by something else than fear of Hell. It was hope he'd remove a demon from me and something else long and complicated.

But fear of Hell has kept me from sinning and straying from the faith more than all else. I dislike some doctrines in the Bible, but I obey to submit to God just because he's God and out of fear of Hell. Not out of love. Things such as serving others and serving God by helping others has grown on me and I now do out of love for others and Him. He caused a change of heart in me. I am all for loving everyone too even our enemies. I agree with most of the New Testament. But I don't agree with some things in the Bible and the main reason I obey or don't support others doing them is fear of Hell. Makes me wonder how much I love God since some things in the Bible seem unfair to me.

I feel I need to change. I want a love of God to permeate my actions. Has anyone else went through this? What did you do to change?

Your question is: are there others saved by fear? According to Jude, yes.

Jude 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference: 23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

 

[John Hyperspace]

Do you find this a good way of helping people? Do you Think you magically have made him stop fearing God by saying that he is basically doomed because of his fear?

How can a man know what is not good except to be made aware of that which is not good?

 

[beebert]

I think he is aware. Dwell to much in to the negative and it can lead to despair. Better is to Tell him why to love Jesus. And yes, there is more to it than to be saved from hell. With that motivation Only creation is a mistake and life is a faillure and Christians are most stupid, selfish and illogical when they give birth to Children with that negative of an attitude. Western christianity has so often failed immensely to show who God really is

 

[John Hyperspace]

Your question is: are there others saved by fear? According to Jude, yes.

Jude 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference: 23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

I'm not sure that verse means what you think it means. I'm not sure Jude is saying "make people afraid in order to save them": the problem is "save with fear": is this meaning to "make them afraid in order to save them" or is the "with fear" meaning you being the one "with fear" in your saving of them from the fire? In other words, you are saving them out of the fire because of your fear for their safety?

22 Show mercy to those who have doubts.
23 Save others by snatching them from the fire of hell. Show mercy to others, even though you are afraid that you might be stained by their sinful lives.

22 And on some have mercy, who are in doubt;
23 and some save, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

22 And some indeed reprove, being judged:
23 But others save, pulling them out of the fire. And on others have mercy, in fear, hating also the spotted garment which is carnal.

22 And have mercy on those who doubt;
23 save others by snatching them out of the fire; to others show mercy with fear, hating even the garment stained by the flesh.

22 Pity some who are wavering, and save by dragging them out of the fire;
23 others pity, but with caution, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

22 And, on some, indeed, have mercy,––such as are in doubt, be saving, out of the fire, snatching them;
23 But, on others, have mercy with fear, hating even, the garment, spotted by the flesh.

 

[John Hyperspace]

I think he is aware. Dwell to much in to the negative and it can lead to despair. Better is to Tell him why to love Jesus. And yes, there is more to it than to be saved from hell. With that motivation Only creation is a mistake and life is a faillure and Christians are most stupid, selfish and illogical when they give birth to Children with that negative of an attitude. Western christianity has so often failed immensely to show who God really is

If I was curt, I apologize.

 

[GirdYourLoins]

As someone else said, Perfect love casts out fear.

We dont have perfect love but God does. No one is worthy, not even one. Yet the Lord clothes us in robes of righteousness and treats us as being worthy because we are found in Jesus Christ. Revelation 5:4-5 says that even in heaven no one could be found who was worthy to open the scrolls except Jesus.

I have found in my Christian life that as I have matured as a Christian my assurance of heaven has grown so I now have no fear of death or hell (I have had a couple of close calls like cars nearly hitting me but I remained calm and free of fear). I serve God out of love for Him, even though I should probably do more. I saw something on God TV earlier where they said we should be people in a love relationship with God who struggle with sin rather than sinners struggling to love God. That comes with maturity.

 

[Even So]

So if one rejects the light one is damned? What if someone regret having rejected the light and wants forgiveness for it? Would he still be damned? I am NOT saying you do but Way too many Christians speak of God as an object. For example, since God is light and darkeness doesn't exist within him while hell is utter darkeness, doesn't that Tell us that hell exists from the point of view of man, så a consequense of not being where the light is, but from God's view, hell is non-existent.

This should start another thread

 

[beebert]

This should start another thread

why? Because it was interesting?