Father James Martin Speaks Out Against Catholics Who Hate Gays

[Armoured]

Do you actually believe people supporting homosexuality and claiming to be Christian actually believe it themselves? Your answer is probably my answer.

Define "supporting homosexuality"?

 

[Tallguy88]

I've heard that Father James got a lot of hateful remarks directed both towards himself and towards gays in response to what he wrote. I don't have a Facebook account, but if you do, perhaps you can "friend" him and read the responses to what he wrote and judge for yourself. I haven't personally seen the responses, I'm just going by what I've heard, so you may want to go in and verify if Facebook is something you do.

I follow Fr James and you are right. It's so bad that he often has to put a disclaimer in his posts that hateful comments will not be tolerated. It's sad to see the level of vitriol coming from Catholics.

 

[outsidethecamp]

Instead of worrying about how society may or may not react to the perception that some Christian groups and individuals use religion as a pretense for espousing hated and bigotry towards gays, perhaps we should instead worry about the hatred and bigotry that may exist and stamp it out as best we can in our own religious communities. After all, Christianity is in part supposed to be about having love in our hearts and trying to do the right thing, even if we technically have the right not to.

Again, why would true believers have hatred in their hearts for anyone?

We can definitely encourage each to love by leading the way, but you certainly can't legislate love.

 

[topcare]

Who are these Catholics who hate gays? Where are they? I know LOTS of Catholics who are opposed to SSM. I'm one of them. I know NO ONE who hates gays. Stupid title. Stupid premise.

The liberal faction think it's hate when we stand up and say the Bible and Church call it sin. Really it convicts them so they hate Chirstians

 

[outsidethecamp]

The liberal faction think it's hate when we stand up and say the Bible and Church call it sin. Really it convicts them so they hate Chirstians

2Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

They will gather around teachers that say what they want to hear. If they don't like what you say they hate you, but they actually turn that around and say you hate them.

It's not loving to make someone feel uncomfortable. This is one of the main reasons the Pharisees hated Jesus. He exposed their hypocrisy.

1Ki 22:8 And the king of Israel said unto Jehoshaphat, There is yet one man, Micaiah the son of Imlah, by whom we may enquire of the LORD: but I hate him; for he doth not prophesy good concerning me, but evil. And Jehoshaphat said, Let not the king say so.

Amo 5:10 They hate him that rebuketh in the gate, and they abhor him that speaketh uprightly.

 

[katerinah1947]

Again, why would true believers have hatred in their hearts for anyone?

We can definitely encourage each to love by leading the way, but you certainly can't legislate love.

Hi,
Yes, love is a choice, for non-believer's, isn't it?
Love, is the goal, for believer's, isn't it?
Love however, is the way of true believers!

So, you have spoken correctly, and are in the Kingdom of God.

However, is it not sad, that many Christians know words from the Bible, and not what they mean? Since, once upon a time that was true for all us, the sadness is deeper. As once, we were as they are now, but none of us did anything, to become more like God, and that is to become more like LOVE.

We all just wait for others to become LOVE, also, but leave it to God, as to His Timing and His Methods.

LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

 

[IHOM]

I think any catholic who "hates" homosexual people should go to confession. However its all fair well and good to listen to homosexuals and love them... but we need to listen to them and love them in a catholic way and that is by correcting errors and admonishing unrepentant sinful activities... we do not need to be challenged by homosexuals homosexuals need to be challenged by conforming themselves to christ and his church... God is an eternal and unchanging God and he challenges all men to conform their will to his... all mankind... once we seek to get the church to conform to the will of mankind we no longer remain the church of god but instead become the church of man and our destruction inevitable. Seek first the kingdom of heaven. I doubt there is a catholic alive who does not feel challenged by christ through his church... i know i am challenged... how dare i say the church and god should be challenged by me to change... who am i? And who are these homosexuals to suggest this and indeed who is this faithless priest to suggest it?

 

[outsidethecamp]

Hi,
Yes, love is a choice, for non-believer's, isn't it?
Love, is the goal, for believer's, isn't it?
Love however, is the way of true believers!

So, you have spoken correctly, and are in the Kingdom of God.

However, is it not sad, that many Christians know words from the Bible, and not what they mean? Since, once upon a time that was true for all us, the sadness is deeper. As once, we were as they are now, but none of us did anything, to become more like God, and that is to become more like LOVE.

We all just wait for others to become LOVE, also, but leave it to God, as to His Timing and His Methods.

LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

It is difficult at best to have hate in your heart and say you love God. Hate and love cannot co-exist together. Light will drive out the darkness.

 

[katerinah1947]

It is difficult at best to have hate in your heart and say you love God. Hate and love cannot co-exist together. Light will drive out the darkness.

Hi,
Ah love will drive out the darkness. That's it isn't it? Sure that can be said other ways, but let me tell you of the most amazing way in my own personal life.
I'd like to know what you think.
I had chosen the Catholic Church this time by myself in the year 2000. It was the Roman Catholic Church. I did that, to fit a church to the Bible on the issue of regular meetings. We are not to forsake regular meetings, like what happens even here.
Years later I was asked to come to a set of meetings, for men, and I asked God if I should do that. In the form of a dove out of the clouds, and the clouds just like when I saw God The Father above them a year or so earlier, came out and descended for the moring meeting. I then knew that I was going to learn something, or they were going to learn something. The same thing happened for the afternoon meeting. So, I attended both of those meetings.
This is about the Eucharist. Hang in there.
One day I mentioned to the moring members that I was being prevented from going to Communion. One man in particular was adamantly opposed to any explanations that I had for that. I told him that I would wait out God on this. He did not like it possibly, but being Catholic, he left me alone on this issue.
Time passed, and I could still not find a way to go to Communion. More time passed, and I still did not understand why this was happening.
On the day, that I was able to go to Communion, I knew why I had gone through this exercise. It was to learn what Communion does in each person, that is unfelt normally and invisible normally.
Before I go on, let me say this. For whatever reason, my mother possibly who was always a Jesus promoter and follower, I always tried to be nice and sweet and to help out all in need, even though I had no clue whatsoever then if He was real or fiction.
Those results for me, prior to my finding out God is Real, can be summed up like this. "No good deed goes unpunished." No matter how hard and consistenly I tried, other than my intentions being good, no one seemed to benefit from my actions, rather they seemed to hurt by them.
Just before I made it to Comminion again, the results of my actions and words, were such that it again felt like: "No good deed goes unpunished." It was just like it was, when I did not know if God was real or not.
Instantly upon taking in Communion again, all my words healed, all my works were perceived as pleasant.
That was the lesson for me. It is not I that am good. It is Jesus within me.
Never, had I ever thought those words were anything but figurative, or spiritual. Never did I think that taking in Jesus as food, and of course taking in Jesus as wine, was anything but a practice a confirmation of belief before.
Now, I have the results. I don't change. My goals don't change, but somehow the results are far better, and without me doing anything different.
I imagine what takes place, is that if I have enough Jesus in me, then it is really Jesus that they are seeing and listening to, so my words and actions are different then.
I noticed that it took weeks or longer for enough Jesus to leave me, until I was no longer effective.
So, to your original thoughts of the Light will drive out the Darkness, I think there is some very strong relationship between taking in Jesus and what happened to me.
LOVE,
...Mary., M. ... .

 

[Tallguy88]

As a non-Christian now, if I may be permitted to say so, respectfully of course, but some of the most hateful, most arrogant, most prideful, most judgmental, most obnoxious, and most racist people I have ever met in the course of my lifetime have been Christians. I have spent the vast majority of my life, particularly the 24 years I spent inside the church, dealing with such people who praise and bless God on Sunday, yet turn around and curse their fellow man the other six days of the week. So unfortunately, and quite sadly, speaking from personal experience, this kind of behavior from Christians toward this Catholic father is of no surprise to me whatsoever, in fact, I have come to expect such behavior from Christians in general. I'm sad to say that I can certainly understand and agree with Mahatma Gandhi's opinions of Christians in his famous quote. However, when I meet a Christian, and I have, who does actually follow Christ's command to love others and to not judge others, then I consider it a rarity and certainly not the norm. I know this is harsh, but it's the truth as I see it, based on more than thirty years of personal experiences, and I'm trying to convey it with as much respect as possible.

I honestly think that many Christians don't realize just what a damning effect their condemning words and judgmental actions can actually have on the non-Christians around them. I left the church and walked away from my own Christian faith because of the way I was treated by other Christians over the years. The old adage of "Sticks and bones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me," is nothing more than a lie, but words can certainly hurt, sometimes much worse than an evil deed could ever do. The immeasurable damage that has been done and is still being committed in the name of Christ can be forever irreversible. I know this is a very sensitive issue for Christians and many get rather defensive and angry when it's brought up, but I think it needs to be seriously addressed, and this whole incident and situation with this Catholic father brings it to the forefront again. I think it's a perfect opportunity for Christians to re-examine themselves (isn't that scripture too?) and make an honest attempt to own up to the reasons why so many non-Christians, like myself, have such a distaste for them, and it isn't necessarily because of what they preach, but how they preach and how they conduct themselves in front of the non-believers around them. And quite honestly, all the excuses given to justify such foul behavior only brings more harm and problems, not solutions or healing. Finally, with all due respect, I'm certainly not trying to be disruptive by mulling over past grievances or trying to derail this thread, but I think this is a very serious issue that needs to be desperately addressed by Christians. I think it's a very serious problem for the Christian church and it can't keep being ignored.

I'm sorry you've been treated so poorly by Christians/Catholics. Sometimes it seems there is more chaff than wheat.

 

[katerinah1947]

Hi,

(I did this all in one sitting. I made some spelling errors, like Peter instead of Paul. I will correct all I see now. It will take awhile.) (It is 3:00PM here Pacific Standar Time. I think I am done, with most of the erros in spelling.)

In this theme that seems be true of 'love driving out the Darkness', do any of us truly know where the Darkness is on this issue of Homosexality, or even being Transgendered like me.

I know what the church says, and for all if you, if nothing else God is doing, He is allowing me to get to heaven, for something that is beyond my abilities to control.

I imagine the same is true for homosexuals also.

And if God is allowing me this condition, but still saying that I am right enough with Him in thoughts emotions and desires, can anyone tell God that He is making a mistake on me?

On this thought, I love Roman Catholicism, as it really is a call to perfection, with an out. That out is called Confession. But, it is more than that.

Yes, it is Roman Catholicism that pointed out my errors in all areas of my own views of my perfections. Soon I was taught, all of us fall in the category of not perfect, except the only two people ever born on this earth, Full of Grace.
Mary is one. Jesus is the other one. For Mary, The Holy Spirit had a woman call her Full of Grace. Jesus is the same way, He is full of grace, but I think that is stated somewhere in the Bible.

Even if being transgendered is proven to be biological later, I still am in violation of the present rules of the church, as they say that I cannot be actively transgendered. Therefore to violate anything a priest says to me, is a violation of the laws of God, even if that priest is wrong. When I read their stances on being transgendered, I am in violation, but somehow not wanting to violate any rule right or wrong by the church makes me right with God, and really I don't understand how that is possible. It is though my life.

So, I love the Roman Catholic Church for lots of things, like the true nature of God, and Mary, and Saints like Faustina, and that only God is Good, but mostly I love them for teaching me that.

I also love the Roman Catholic Church for what God did to me. First He showed me a proof of The Bible. I am told by the church that it is God The Holy Spirit who really does that work. So, I love the Roman Catholic Church for knowing that.

I love them for all their practices, and realize they are not perfect, just like Peter wasn't perfect and very quickly had to be corrected in things that to me, that shocked me, not only in that item of circumcision, but what it means for me. It means to me, even I can get it wrong, withouth the help of God. God helped Peter get it right, by sending in Paul who had met Jesus personally in a vision.

I love the Roman Catholic Church for how God worked in my life, with this whole transgender thing. He first got me to tell the truth to everyone about my life. Then He allowed me to talk about not only being transgendered, but how God is in my life anyway.

Today, I have this to say. A year before, I was not going to be accepted into any Church on Earth, to follow the Biblically simple item of do not forsake your regular meetings. God sets things up so I have a path, a church, a priest.

For me, I have a daily spiritual communion written just for me, but by a priest made so by Jesus Himself, and no other, unless you think of God, and then it can not be said ever that making that person a priest, was not originally The Father's Will.

However, it is Jesus who made that man a priest, and he is of the order of Melchizedec, just like Jesus is, and just like Melchizidec of old was and actually still is. It was said that Jesus is a priest forever. It might be that Melchizidec is one also. I don't remember.

I have my daily duties, and I have a life in God, given to me by Jesus though this man. I am part of an online Hermitage for all people but also for all LGBTQI. The person was commanded by Jesus to do that, and just like Padre Pio, no one can pray for him. I have tried and it does not work.

As an asside, no one, not one of you, is supposed to pray for me either. None of you ever, is supposed to do that.

As the church grapples with the idea of being LGBQTI, and also them wanting to be right with God, eventually whether people like me will always be outcasts, but still wanting to be perfect with God, is not known yet.

I don't want to lose God, and He seems fine somehow with me, alone, being transgendered, and since it seems totally contrary to the present interpretations of scripture that most people are talking about, and contrary to the statements of the Roman Catholic Church so far, it confused me for a long time.

Then I noticed others who had done research on the Bible, and none of them once they dug down, could find a clear condemnation of transgendered, or even natural, rather than faked homosexuality, like in those pagan rituals. Those folks seem to act like homosexuals there, but in reality are not. The prostitutes, I imagine the female ones, they too may not be true prostitutes for survival or money only but rather doing it for demons, called temple worship in those times.

The rest of the items on being me and being right with God or not, are important to me, and not for the reasons that most people might think, who do not daily live In The Spirit. For me it is just to be right with God and not hurt Him nor anyone He loves.

In that concern of mine, I noticed this. In Genesis 1:28 God commanded us to do science. The command was in a blessing, to subdue the earth. That requires science, in order to do that. Before this, I noticed in the Blessing to those coming off the ark, that fill the earth was one of them, but that is also in Genesis, I think. In any event of where this is, one day, God did something and it caused them to spread. It is said twice there, that they spread, but they spread as a result of something God had done to them. Biblically the reason given, from those people is they did not want to be scattered throughout the earth. They did not want to spread.

To me that means that a Blessing By God is a Command by God.

Now to go on, in Romans 13:1-5 we are all told to follow the laws of the Government. And in those times it was the Roman Government. God says that He makes those laws.

In other places God says this. I have put my laws on your mind and in your heart. He also says, I have put my laws in your mind and on your heart.

So what does this all mean to me. It means that, in essence the answer to questions such as being transgendered which may be no more than a form of being a man made eunech Biblically, the answers to what we should do is also found in Science, and in Government Laws, but also in the laws of love God and love our neighbor, in my mind and in my heart, but also on my mind and on my heart.

So, although I cannot and will not go against anything a priest tells me, whether a parish priest or a priest like the Pope; Science, the Government, the Heart and Mind laws of God, all seem to be saying one thing, and the priests another. At least most priests are saying that.

Now, one other item for some of you to think about, if God is for something, how can I be against it?

I cannot and will not is the answer, for me.

This year I changed my name, from Katerina, or Kate or Katie, depending upon my mood or audience, to Mary, because I was told by someone, that is the name The Lord calls me by. I was only told this year. I was also told why I am called that by The Lord.

So, I changed my name online and to all my friends and told them why.

Each of them is struggling with that name change. I refuse to struggle with that. God says something to me, and therefore, It Is, to me.

Now, why and how is it that this God, The Lord, calls me by a female name, but how is it that The Lord even puts up with me?

I guess we will all have to wait, to see if this repentant sinner, is okay with God or not. So, far, I cannot tell you in any difinitive way.

LOVE,
...Mary., M., .... .

 

[IHOM]

I am a catholic a traditional catholic. Am i perfect...not by a long shot... i am in communion with the church.... just...i am in union with ma family... just. You see i myself habe brought scandle upon chrisg and the church..i have two children out of wedlock i live with my fieance and have done for 5 years i sleep in the same bed...do i want the church to change to accept me and my sinful ways... no.

I took a gamble in my own life i told my girlfriend no more sexual relations unless we were married...which she has resisted.. i went to confession i repented of my sins... i conformrd my own will to be in sexual relations with my girl friend...to the will of god and to accept the consequences of perhaps losing my girl friend and even my children... i was willing to give all that up....for the eucharist the source and summit of life... all life...not just christian life... but life itself...i began to pray the rosary and thankfully my girlfriend has not only accepted marriage but now she wishes to be baptized into the catholic faith.

When we are willing to conform our will to the will of god we find good things happen.

Homosexuals if they were to conform their will to the will of god they would find that their witness would impregnate into the society more profoundly than that of a hetrosexual couple because hetrosexual couples are called to bring children into the world not just physically but morally and spiritually.... their time is taken up by children... as it should be

A homosexual in a relationship or preferably not is not called in that way. Thus they are vested with more time to enter into society as a whole and direct society. A homosexual at war with god can direct much suffering on humanity but a homosexual at one with god will bring so much holiness and grace to the world.

In the end humanity as a whole must conform itself to the will of god or face a just destruction and humanity can only conform itself to god through the individual.... i must confrom and you must conform...hetrosexuals must and homosexuals must too... athiests aswell as believers.

 

[Rhamiel]

I have seen hatred towards homosexuals from some Christians

and that is a despicable thing

I have also seen hatred and envy towards the wealthy among some Christians too
I have also seen hate and contempt towards the poor among some Christians
I have seen hate for immigrants from some Christians
and I have seen hate for political enemies among some Christians

the most disturbing hate I have seen has been the hate in my own heart
because I know that God has treated me with such tender mercy and I have no excuse to hate anyone

 

[outsidethecamp]

As a non-Christian now, if I may be permitted to say so, respectfully of course, but some of the most hateful, most arrogant, most prideful, most judgmental, most obnoxious, and most racist people I have ever met in the course of my lifetime have been Christians. I have spent the vast majority of my life, particularly the 24 years I spent inside the church, dealing with such people who praise and bless God on Sunday, yet turn around and curse their fellow man the other six days of the week. So unfortunately, and quite sadly, speaking from personal experience, this kind of behavior from Christians toward this Catholic father is of no surprise to me whatsoever, in fact, I have come to expect such behavior from Christians in general. I'm sad to say that I can certainly understand and agree with Mahatma Gandhi's opinions of Christians in his famous quote. However, when I meet a Christian, and I have, who does actually follow Christ's command to love others and to not judge others, then I consider it a rarity and certainly not the norm. I know this is harsh, but it's the truth as I see it, based on more than thirty years of personal experiences, and I'm trying to convey it with as much respect as possible.

I honestly think that many Christians don't realize just what a damning effect their condemning words and judgmental actions can actually have on the non-Christians around them. I left the church and walked away from my own Christian faith because of the way I was treated by other Christians over the years. The old adage of "Sticks and bones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me," is nothing more than a lie, but words can certainly hurt, sometimes much worse than an evil deed could ever do. The immeasurable damage that has been done and is still being committed in the name of Christ can be forever irreversible. I know this is a very sensitive issue for Christians and many get rather defensive and angry when it's brought up, but I think it needs to be seriously addressed, and this whole incident and situation with this Catholic father brings it to the forefront again. I think it's a perfect opportunity for Christians to re-examine themselves (isn't that scripture too?) and make an honest attempt to own up to the reasons why so many non-Christians, like myself, have such a distaste for them, and it isn't necessarily because of what they preach, but how they preach and how they conduct themselves in front of the non-believers around them. And quite honestly, all the excuses given to justify such foul behavior only brings more harm and problems, not solutions or healing. Finally, with all due respect, I'm certainly not trying to be disruptive by mulling over past grievances or trying to derail this thread, but I think this is a very serious issue that needs to be desperately addressed by Christians. I think it's a very serious problem for the Christian church and it can't keep being ignored.

I have been walking with the Lord for 38 years. I was attracted to His love and forgiveness for me a horrible sinner. I became a Christian overseas and when I came back to the States I tried to fit into the Institutional Churches but could not. They seemed too corporate, too business like, too religious, too detached and indifferent and indifferent to one another's lives. They concentrated more on programs and works than relationships.

I have been in communion with Jesus and His people outside of the system for most of those 38 years meeting from house to house as in the Early Church. I understand everything that you said and feel and sadly agree. But, don't turn away from Jesus. Turn away from religious people, yes and pray He brings you to a portion of His people that truly do love Him and love each other.

Jeremiah also encountered religious people. We all do.

Jer 9:1 Oh that my head were waters, and mine eyes a fountain of tears, that I might weep day and night for the slain of the daughter of my people!
Jer 9:2 Oh that I had in the wilderness a lodging place of wayfaring men; that I might leave my people, and go from them! for they be all adulterers, an assembly of treacherous men.
Jer 9:3 And they bend their tongues like their bow for lies: but they are not valiant for the truth upon the earth; for they proceed from evil to evil, and they know not me, saith the LORD.
Jer 9:4 Take ye heed every one of his neighbour, and trust ye not in any brother: for every brother will utterly supplant, and every neighbour will walk with slanders.
Jer 9:5 And they will deceive every one his neighbour, and will not speak the truth: they have taught their tongue to speak lies, and weary themselves to commit iniquity.
Jer 9:6 Thine habitation is in the midst of deceit; through deceit they refuse to know me, saith the LORD.

You do not have to put yourself in the company of abusive people.

 

[katerinah1947]

I have seen hatred towards homosexuals from some Christians

and that is a despicable thing

I have also seen hatred and envy towards the wealthy among some Christians too
I have also seen hate and contempt towards the poor among some Christians
I have seen hate for immigrants from some Christians
and I have seen hate for political enemies among some Christians

the most disturbing hate I have seen has been the hate in my own heart
because I know that God has treated me with such tender mercy and I have no excuse to hate anyone

Hi,
Hopefully if you have hate in your heart, you are mistaken. I wanted to say, for you this is not possible. I didn't say that because I thought it might be perceived as inflamatory. I have read some of your posts. I cannot believe that you still have hate in your own heart?
Sorry. It is just hard for me to believe, even if it is true for you.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

 

[outsidethecamp]

Hi,
Ah love will drive out the darkness. That's it isn't it? Sure that can be said other ways, but let me tell you of the most amazing way in my own personal life.
I'd like to know what you think.
I had chosen the Catholic Church this time by myself in the year 2000. It was the Roman Catholic Church. I did that, to fit a church to the Bible on the issue of regular meetings. We are not to forsake regular meetings, like what happens even here.
Years later I was asked to come to a set of meetings, for men, and I asked God if I should do that. In the form of a dove out of the clouds, and the clouds just like when I saw God The Father above them a year or so earlier, came out and descended for the moring meeting. I then knew that I was going to learn something, or they were going to learn something. The same thing happened for the afternoon meeting. So, I attended both of those meetings.
This is about the Eucharist. Hang in there.
One day I mentioned to the moring members that I was being prevented from going to Communion. One man in particular was adamantly opposed to any explanations that I had for that. I told him that I would wait out God on this. He did not like it possibly, but being Catholic, he left me alone on this issue.
Time passed, and I could still not find a way to go to Communion. More time passed, and I still did not understand why this was happening.
On the day, that I was able to go to Communion, I knew why I had gone through this exercise. It was to learn what Communion does in each person, that is unfelt normally and invisible normally.
Before I go on, let me say this. For whatever reason, my mother possibly who was always a Jesus promoter and follower, I always tried to be nice and sweet and to help out all in need, even though I had no clue whatsoever then if He was real or fiction.
Those results for me, prior to my finding out God is Real, can be summed up like this. "No good deed goes unpunished." No matter how hard and consistenly I tried, other than my intentions being good, no one seemed to benefit from my actions, rather they seemed to hurt by them.
Just before I made it to Comminion again, the results of my actions and words, were such that it again felt like: "No good deed goes unpunished." It was just like it was, when I did not know if God was real or not.
Instantly upon taking in Communion again, all my words healed, all my works were perceived as pleasant.
That was the lesson for me. It is not I that am good. It is Jesus within me.
Never, had I ever thought those words were anything but figurative, or spiritual. Never did I think that taking in Jesus as food, and of course taking in Jesus as wine, was anything but a practice a confirmation of belief before.
Now, I have the results. I don't change. My goals don't change, but somehow the results are far better, and without me doing anything different.
I imagine what takes place, is that if I have enough Jesus in me, then it is really Jesus that they are seeing and listening to, so my words and actions are different then.
I noticed that it took weeks or longer for enough Jesus to leave me, until I was no longer effective.
So, to your original thoughts of the Light will drive out the Darkness, I think there is some very strong relationship between taking in Jesus and what happened to me.
LOVE,
...Mary., M. ... .

I am glad you love the Lord, Mary. I respect your story and your journey.

Mine is 180 degrees different as I was raised in the Catholic church but did not know Christ. I went through all the rituals, baptism, communion and confirmation and even served as an altar boy, but did not know the Lord. Even when I went to confession I could not bring myself to tell the whole truth. It all just felt unnatural and never felt like the family of God. I don't think my parents knew anyone in the church. I was told I had His Spirit after being confirmed but my mind was never on spiritual things and I never felt that I had power over sin. I felt empty and destitute of Jesus. I did not find the Lord until I was overseas, but I really He found me. His love and forgiveness transforms my life and He gave me a new heart and quickened my spirit which was once dead in trespasses and sins. He shed His love abroad into my heart and how can we hate anyone? Knowing His love and how much He has forgiven us, how can we hate? He has driven all of the hate out. Hatred for for Him, hatred for self, and hatred for others. We are to walk as He walked and now with a new heart and His Spirit we can. We are not perfect, sure, but now with our new heart we have a hatred for sin and anything that is not of Christ. All of our desires have changed. Our spiritual walk is really a love walk where the Lord is maturing us in His love each day, teaching us what it really means to love people like He loved them. Thank you for sharing. May the Lord continue to bless you and draw you close to Him.

 

[katerinah1947]

Hi,
Love consists of this, not that you have loved, but that you have been loved.
I forgot to add that.
It seems as Jesus mostly talks about love.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

 

[ArmenianJohn]

It's interesting to me that so many of the people who are so focused on homosexuality and gay marriage being the harbinger of a higher level of persecution against Christians are the same ones who espouse as a virtue the greed of unfairly regulated capitalism and the oppression it brings upon millions of people, as Pope Francis has pointed out so many times.

I don't think the promotion of homosexuality is good for any nation, but I think it's more the result of the idolatry of mammon that has been accepted far and wide as "good" by so many people, even those who claim to be Christians. That idolatry opened the door for a lot of other perversion (I'm not talking sexual perversion but general perversion of what is good, holy, true) and now people are mistakenly blaming the resulting perversion. And they're doing so piecemeal, cherry-picking those perversions that they hate while ignoring the ones they embrace. Some hate gay marriage, some hate abortion, some hate illegal immigration...but rarely is the mother of idolatry, mammon, put in the cross-hairs, even by liberals (although more politically liberal people than conservative people seem to recognize the gravity of mammon-worship, albeit not necessarily even from a Christian viewpoint).

Pope Francis - like most Popes - is wise, and it would do people well to heed his admonitions. When you devalue human life in favor of Mammon then the pandora's box of sin and perversion is opened. "Gay marriage" is much more a symptom of the real sin problem and existing anti-Christian sentiment than a cause of future sin or anti-Christian sentiment.

 

[katerinah1947]

I am glad you love the Lord, Mary. I respect your story and your journey.

Mine is 180 degrees different as I was raised in the Catholic church but did not know Christ. I went through all the rituals, baptism, communion and confirmation and even served as an altar boy, but did not know the Lord. Even when I went to confession I could not bring myself to tell the whole truth. It all just felt unnatural and never felt like the family of God. I don't think my parents knew anyone in the church. I was told I had His Spirit after being confirmed but my mind was never on spiritual things and I never felt that I had power over sin. I felt empty and destitute of Jesus. I did not find the Lord until I was overseas, but I really He found me. His love and forgiveness transforms my life and He gave me a new heart and quickened my spirit which was once dead in trespasses and sins. He shed His love abroad into my heart and how can we hate anyone? Knowing His love and how much He has forgiven us, how can we hate? He has driven all of the hate out. Hatred for for Him, hatred for self, and hatred for others. We are to walk as He walked and now with a new heart and His Spirit we can. We are not perfect, sure, but now with our new heart we have a hatred for sin and anything that is not of Christ. All of our desires have changed. Our spiritual walk is really a love walk where the Lord is maturing us in His love each day, teaching us what it really means to love people like He loved them. Thank you for sharing. May the Lord continue to bless you and draw you close to Him.

Hi,

Actually my journey with God is a lot closer to yours than it sounds like. I was a Catholic, who in Seventh Grade was asked by *** **** ******, if I believed in God, and I was in church at the time, attending Saint Brigids School in Midland Michigan.

Now, you know how a Catholic with a Catholic mother responds to a question like that. It is done honestly, even if one is punished for it.
I said: "No. Not without proof. And that is for all of The Roman Catholic Church's Dogma also."

I just went through the motions, to try and hedge my bets, in case this God guy was real. My disbelief without proof was so strong, that I even lied in something called Confirmation, to the Bishop. I was afraid of my mother. So, when the Bishop asked me those questions at confirmation, I lied out of fear of what my mother would do, if I told her I didn't believe in God really, nor in The Roman Catholic Church.

Yes, it was horrible to do. Yes, when I later had the proof of God, and from soures outside of The Holy Roman Catolic Church, I even told a priest of this later, and what he said to me was amazing. It essentially meant, that for some reason, he knew of, that I was still not in trouble with God over this.
My proof, and it is said all proofs like this come from The Holy Spirit, came actually from Bible work. Later I picked a church. It was the Catholic.

I went, but after I knew the Bible is real, and by proof, which by the way since it talks about God means that God is also real, and by proof, stuff happened.

It was like God said: Oh yeah? Do you think all my words in that book aren't real? Do you think this is where it stops, in just knowing I am Real? No. You are going to learn more.

That is when the supernatural stuff started happening, like all of those who live in the Spirit talk about. At first it freaked out this scientist of sorts.
However, as soon as I found words like, I will reveal myself to them, I calmed down and knew this was just part and parced of what God is, in that what He says is true.

Still though I struggled through chruch services each week. I did it because it was my job with God. I hated it, but made sure I went anyway.

When I had aged, to 58, God started to ramp up my knowledge of Him, and asked me to do my first thing on blind-faith-+ . Well I failed. I did not do that thing. I did ask though, if I should have done that, and I said I want the answer in no ambiguous terms. It came in no ambiguous terms.

All Christians who live in the Spirit will know this next part. Even though I failed miserably in listening to a faith+ item, I was given another chance, that I say, I did not merit.

Again you might like this part, I still struggled with doing that item.
Now to the point. After completing that item well enough, for the first time in my life, I actually loved going to church.

The journey is like yours in a way. A Catholic, who got nothing out of it, stopped, then went back and still got nothing out of it. Some real good Bible work came along. The Bible was proved to be real. I had the proof mentioned to *** **** ****** in seventh grade.

My next task was to pick a chruch, any church. I picked on based on how close the church was to the proof done on The Bible.

On percentages of correlation alone, the Catholics were three times, more accurate than their closest competitor.

I joined them. Oh, by the way, eventually I had a name for who asked me that question in seventh grade. It happened about 10 years or so, after I had picked a church.

His name, is The Holy Spirit.

That asside, my journey is like yours, it took going into the Bible, to find God personally.

LOVE,
...Mary., M., .... .

 

[Rhamiel]

this thread is driving me crazy

too often conservative Catholics (both political and religious consecutive Catholics)
too often conservative Catholics just ignore the criticism we get
oh we have tradition, oh we have history, oh we do not have to listen to anything you say

we are hurting people
we are being a poor witness to the Prince of Peace
that is not just some fun little title that is nice to say
Jesus is the Prince, the principle, the foundational prerequisite, of Peace, of Justice, of Harmony the ancient Chinese would call it the Tao and the Greeks called it the Logos

ahhhh I am going down rabbit trails and getting off topic

we NEED to love more
Christ was so meek and humble and He gives us EVERYTHING
we have to stop getting offended, because it does not really matter if we get our feelings hurt
people are leaving Christ because of our flawed witness, that is what matters

we do not get to laugh this off, we do not get to blame someone else
people are going to burn in hell forever, and we are partly to blame


Liberal Catholics,
you do not get to act all high and mighty
yes there are some hateful conservative Catholics
guess what? there are hateful liberal Catholics as well
I have been called stupid, I have been called a bigot, I have been looked down on, I have been sneered at
I have heard the teachings of the Church openly ridiculed and mocked by people who claim to be Catholic
like I said, my feelings really do not matter, I have my feet planted firmly on the ground, a few mean words are not gonna hurt me
but if you do this to a brother or sister in Christ, and they leave the Church, or if they are tempted to reflect that hate they were shown
well that is partly on you
just like if people leave the Church because of the hate conservative Catholics show, that will be partly on them