Experiential evidence for religion

[LoAmmi]

Would you call that experience of "wow" when you first see a rainbow "occultic"? I wouldn't. Yet it is a mystical experience in that it momentary takes you out of your self.

"Takes you out of your self"

What does this mean?

 

[dlamberth]

"Takes you out of your self"

What does this mean?

Most of us in our normal day are thinking about this and that. Some use the image of a movie going on in ones mind. We are thinking about getting the kids to school, finances, possibility an argument with the spouse, the movie watched last night, politics, issues with family members or friends, we mentally run through all sorts of things reeling through the mind. The mind doesn't stop. If we look at ourselves, we are into ourselves as the mind moves along, we get kind of focused inwards in our thoughts.

Using the rainbow as a simple example in an attempt to point towards taking one out of one's self, often when we see a rainbow all of that background mind noise ( Buddhist call it "Monkey Mind) stops and for just a moment the rainbow has our full on attention. A feeling of "wow" as we see the rainbow overcomes us. A double wow if it's a double rainbow. Normally that feeling doesn't last long, but during that brief moment our mind stops all of it's thinking about this and that while we take in the experience of wonderment. The wonderment takes us outwards, some call it out of our selves.

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[gord44]

Most of us in our normal day are thinking about this and that. Some use the image of a movie going on in ones mind. We are thinking about getting the kids to school, finances, possibility an argument with the spouse, the movie watched last night, politics, issues with family members or friends, we mentally run through all sorts of things reeling through the mind. The mind doesn't stop. If we look at ourselves, we are into ourselves as the mind moves along, we get kind of focused inwards in our thoughts.

Using the rainbow as a simple example in an attempt to point towards taking one out of one's self, often when we see a rainbow all of that background mind noise ( Buddhist call it "Monkey Mind) stops and for just a moment the rainbow has our full on attention. A feeling of "wow" as we see the rainbow overcomes us. A double wow if it's a double rainbow. Normally that feeling doesn't last long, but during that brief moment our mind stops all of it's thinking about this and that while we take in the experience of wonderment. The wonderment takes us outwards, some call it out of our selves.

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Well put. Truly is key to still our 'monkey mind' and see life for what it is.

 

[LoAmmi]

Most of us in our normal day are thinking about this and that. Some use the image of a movie going on in ones mind. We are thinking about getting the kids to school, finances, possibility an argument with the spouse, the movie watched last night, politics, issues with family members or friends, we mentally run through all sorts of things reeling through the mind. The mind doesn't stop. If we look at ourselves, we are into ourselves as the mind moves along, we get kind of focused inwards in our thoughts.

Using the rainbow as a simple example in an attempt to point towards taking one out of one's self, often when we see a rainbow all of that background mind noise ( Buddhist call it "Monkey Mind) stops and for just a moment the rainbow has our full on attention. A feeling of "wow" as we see the rainbow overcomes us. A double wow if it's a double rainbow. Normally that feeling doesn't last long, but during that brief moment our mind stops all of it's thinking about this and that while we take in the experience of wonderment. The wonderment takes us outwards, some call it out of our selves.

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I have never experienced a moment where I am not thinking about something. Often when I'm not doing anything it will be about the latest story I wish to write but it never stops.

 

[dlamberth]

I have never experienced a moment where I am not thinking about something. Often when I'm not doing anything it will be about the latest story I wish to write but it never stops.

That's the way it is with most of us.

What about feelings of wonderment or thankfulness? Do you get that ever?

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[LoAmmi]

That's the way it is with most of us.

What about feelings of wonderment or thankfulness? Do you get that ever?

Not in a way that stops me from thinking. I like thinking. It's relaxing. What you describe about not thinking sounds like Hell to me.

 

[gord44]

It's not so much not thinking as slowing down your mind. Meditation has helped me immensely. It has gotten rid of my anxieties and worries. It's all about slowing down your thoughts, not stopping them, so you can see where the thoughts come from.

 

[LoAmmi]

It's not so much not thinking as slowing down your mind. Meditation has helped me immensely. It has gotten rid of my anxieties and worries. It's all about slowing down your thoughts, not stopping them, so you can see where the thoughts come from.

I can see why some people would like that. I guess I'm just wired differently. Whenever I've tried to "slow my thoughts", I tend to just invent new things to think about. I experience the world though my inner thoughts and don't slow down in there. I guess it's hard to describe exactly. I imagine in the same way I can't understand what you guys are talking about.

 

[dlamberth]

Not in a way that stops me from thinking. I like thinking. It's relaxing. What you describe about not thinking sounds like Hell to me.

It can be scarey. But personally, I find getting trapped into my thoughts Hell when they take me into ugly and angry places. What I find is that to be more aware of things around me I've had to slow down that thinking part of my brain and learn to just open to the awareness part of my brain. When my mind is occupied with thinking all of the time I find that I'm not as aware or awake to life around me. The birds are singing but I don't hear them because by brain is all ready occupied with it's thinking about everything.

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[LoAmmi]

Someone posted this stuff a while back and this is what I got. I think it kind of explains a lot about this discussion:

Portrait of an INTP

 

[dlamberth]

Someone posted this stuff a while back and this is what I got. I think it kind of explains a lot about this discussion:

Portrait of an INTP

Yes, I think your correct. I've seen you have trouble with spiritually aware subjects and here mysticism. We are all different. Personally, mental concepts about God mean nothing to me. I look towards that inner awareness of the presence of God to know the Divine. Which is, as I'm understanding it, the opposite as yourself.

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[LoAmmi]

Yes, I think your correct. I've seen you have trouble with spiritually aware subjects and here mysticism. We are all different. Personally, mental concepts about God mean nothing to me. I look towards that inner awareness of the presence of God to know the Divine. Which is, as I'm understanding it, the opposite as yourself.

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Diametrically opposed, to be sure. But, hey, I'm part of 3% of the population according to this one INTP personality | 16 Personality Types so you won't have to worry about dealing with too many of my type.

 

[smaneck]

Diametrically opposed, to be sure. But, hey, I'm part of 3% of the population according to this one INTP personality | 16 Personality Types so you won't have to worry about dealing with too many of my type.

I'm one.

They may be a small minority of the population, but they make up the majority of university professors.

 

[LoAmmi]

I'm one.

They may be a small minority of the population, but they make up the majority of university professors.

I can imagine. If I had my way I probably would have been a lawyer but I lost out on that with a lot of problems in school with the other students. Got to a point where I gave up on school and did only what I needed to do to graduate. Not going to turn that into a law degree easily.

 

[gord44]

Everyone is wired differently!

I learned to meditate to help with anxiety. I was never much of a thinker. More of a listless wanderer

 

[light upon light]

The point that LoAmmi brought up, that we are all very different in our styles and approaches and personalities, is a profound one and we should all keep it in mind whenever we discuss these topics...

 

[LoAmmi]

Everyone is wired differently!

I learned to meditate to help with anxiety. I was never much of a thinker. More of a listless wanderer

My parents tell me I've always been a thinker. I'm told that when I was very young, I was trying to determine how a raindrop dispersed when it hit a puddle.

 

[gord44]

The point that LoAmmi brought up, that we are all very different in our styles and approaches and personalities, is a profound one and we should all keep it in mind whenever we discuss these topics...

yes sir!

 

[cloudyday2]

Mysticism by its very nature is occultic. It's hidden, not exoteric.

How are they very different from each other?

IMO it's hard to distinguish occult from religion. I suppose occult is religion with secrets? But a person's experiences from occult could be evidence just like a person's experiences from religion.

 

[light upon light]

Mysticism is always universalist, loving, and uplifting.

Occultism is often alienating, frightening, and conspiratorial.

An occultism with an extremely positive and holistic outlook on life would likely be the same as mysticism.