Donald Trump booed at Alabama rally after encouraging his supporters to get vaccinated

[Belk]

The principle is the same. IS it "my body, my choice" Or is it not? And one cannot trot out the, "But hey, you could affect another's body with the virus (though both vaccinated and non-vaccinated are equally able to spread it)" without realizing the logical contradiction in that the developing baby inside the mother is also "not her body". It's someone else's body that she is voluntarily (except in cases of attack) hosting.

So one cannot have it both ways. Either we respect bodily autonomy as a principle or we do not. You don't get to respect it for the "correct" political causes.

Not a rabbit hole I wish to go down. Just pointing out that it is inconsistent on both sides.

 

[KCfromNC]

The principle is the same. IS it "my body, my choice" Or is it not?

This comparison will make sense just as soon as pregnancy is contagious via airborne transmission.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

You can if you're a man -- "bodily autonomy" need not apply to fetal incubators females.

That is a false assertion. Bodily autonomy applies to all. Or none. Pick one. Our values - so far- have said all.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

This comparison will make sense just as soon as pregnancy is contagious via airborne transmission.

And this refutation would make sense IF the virus were not transmitted regardless of jab status. But the virus can transmitted by anyone. So your assertion is invalid.

 

[TLK Valentine]

That is a false assertion. Bodily autonomy applies to all. Or none. Pick one. Our values - so far- have said all.

The "pro-life" movement says otherwise -- not that anyone believes them, but they say otherwise all the same.

I see them just fine; I have no need of gaslight.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

The "pro-life" movement says otherwise -- not that anyone believes them, but they say otherwise all the same.

I see them just fine; I have no need of gaslight.

No, the pro-life movement does NOT decry bodily autonomy whatsoever. It simply recognizes that the baby, once conceived, is symbiotic with, but not part of the Mom's body.

Pro- life is completely pro-choice, properly understood. Make your choices before you are incubating an infant, not afterward, is the guiding doctrine. (Again, absent cases where no choice exists, such as rape)

 

[KCfromNC]

And this refutation would make sense IF the virus were not transmitted regardless of jab status. But the virus can transmitted by anyone. So your assertion is invalid.

What assertion, that pregnancy isn't contagious via airborne transmission? I really didn't think I'd have to explain how pregnancy does happen. You know, man, woman, love each other very much, etc, etc, etc.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

What assertion, that pregnancy isn't contagious via airborne transmission? I really didn't think I'd have to explain how pregnancy does happen. You know, man, woman, love each other very much, etc, etc, etc.

Way to miss the point.

I responded to Belk above, who said: "For a Republican saying "I respect your freedom to choose to do what is right for you, between you and your own physician" only works for vaccination. If you are talking about abortion you will definitely lose support."

I refuted that.

The assertion under discussion is "my body, my choice". It either is, or it is not. One does not get to illogically argue that it is "your body, your choice" if you want to kill your baby, but not your body, your choice with reference to whether to take a brand new technology injected into your body with unknown future consequences. Where there is risk, there must be (uncoerced) choice.

 

[KCfromNC]

The assertion under discussion is "my body, my choice". It either is, or it is not.

Maybe they'd be totally the same if pregnancy and covid were both easily communicable diseases. Unfortunately for this bit of empty rhetoric, that's not the case, as I've repeatedly tried to point out.

One does not get to illogically argue that it is "your body, your choice" if you want to kill your baby

Good thing no one is doing this.

So to make this analogy work, we have to ignore that pregnancy isn't a communicable disease and pretend that people are advocating for killing babies. Other than that, seems pretty solid.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Good thing no one is doing this.

So to make this analogy work, we have to ignore that pregnancy isn't a communicable disease and pretend that people are advocating for killing babies. Other than that, seems pretty solid.

That is precisely the argument. You just object to the colloquial term "baby", which any expectant mother will use, no matter how early in the pregnancy, UNLESS she doesn't want the baby. If she doesn't want it, one argues that it is "not a baby" even though it is biologically alive, so one should be free to dispose of it, even though (absent rape) the mother engaged in activity to cause pregnancy.

We all know it's a baby in there, no matter how one contorts the language.

Already addressed the illogical analogy.

 

[TLK Valentine]

No, the pro-life movement does NOT decry bodily autonomy whatsoever. It simply recognizes that the baby, once conceived, is symbiotic with, but not part of the Mom's body.

And what is the term for an unwanted "symbiote" that grants nothing to the host organism?

Parasite.

Pro- life is completely pro-choice, properly understood. Make your choices before you are incubating an infant, not afterward, is the guiding doctrine. (Again, absent cases where no choice exists, such as rape)

Except there are far too many pro-life organizations who make no exceptions for rape. The gaslight isn't working.

 

[KCfromNC]

That is precisely the argument. You just object to the colloquial term "baby", which any expectant mother will use, no matter how early in the pregnancy, UNLESS she doesn't want the baby. If she doesn't want it, one argues that it is "not a baby" even though it is biologically alive, so one should be free to dispose of it, even though (absent rape) the mother engaged in activity to cause pregnancy.

We all know it's a baby in there, no matter how one contorts the language.

I guess when all else fails, simply assert that everyone already believes what one is trying to prove. That's not going to cause anyone to think there's zero substance behind any of this hyperbole.

 

[stevil]

Kudos to trump for standing up for what he thinks is right, even in the face of displeasure of his crowd.

Never thought he had it in him.

He ought to have been promoting masks wearing, social distancing and vaccine from the very beginning. As the president at the time he should have taken the vaccine in front of the cameras as an example for the people.

 

[TLK Valentine]

He ought to have been promoting masks wearing, social distancing and vaccine from the very beginning. As the president at the time he should have taken the vaccine in front of the cameras as an example for the people.

That was always Donald's problem -- one of many, but the most relevant one here, anyway -- simply barking out orders and expecting to be obeyed served him well in the past, but a leader needs to set an example.

...and Donald was never a good example of anything worth imitating.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

He ought to have been promoting masks wearing, social distancing and vaccine from the very beginning. As the president at the time he should have taken the vaccine in front of the cameras as an example for the people.

You can make a valid claim that he didn't promote masking or distancing, but on the vaccine front...credit where credit is due, he did promote that from early on.

TikTok

Full disclaimer, not familiar with the person who put the montage together, could be an alt-right nutter for all I know, but the content itself is an accurate representation of the reaction of many democrats when Trump was pushing the vaccine idea hard (when he was trying to set himself up for reelection)

 

[rturner76]

But of course -- conspiracy theories exist to make powerless and insignificant people feel a little less powerless and insignificant. After all, how bad off can they be if they can see through the plots that THEY have so intricately weaved?

Logically, the more powerless and insignificant you feel, the more such theories you'd need to latch onto to feel better about yourself... and every barrel has a bottom.

I never picked up on that aspect of the conspiracy theorist. They feel powerful because they know something we don't know. They know what is really happening and everybody else has been fooled by the big lie.

Looking at things that way would make a person feel smart, informed, and ahead of the curve so to speak. Maintaining that reality for oneself must be of paramount importance to their self-identity

 

[Strathos]

He ought to have been promoting masks wearing, social distancing and vaccine from the very beginning. As the president at the time he should have taken the vaccine in front of the cameras as an example for the people.

Better late than never.