Does the Bible Support or Oppose Five-Point Calvinism?

[SinnerInTheHands]

Did you choose to believe, or were you forced?

I certainly never chose. And I'm an adult convert. Matter of fact, I'd say that if God did give me the choice, I would choose satan in each and every instance.

"And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed." [Acts 13:48]

"And when he wished to cross to Achaia, the brothers encouraged him and wrote to the disciples to welcome him. When he arrived, he greatly helped those who through grace had believed." [Acts 18:27]

"For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in Him but also suffer for His sake." [Philippians 1:29]

 

[EmSw]

Ok.

"Can the Ethiopian change his skin"

No.

"or the leopard his spots?"

No.

"Then also you can do good who are accustomed to do evil." [Jeremiah 13:23]

They may not change their skin nor spots, but a man accustomed to do evil, CAN do good.

 

[EmSw]

I certainly never chose. And I'm an adult convert. Matter of fact, I'd say that if God did give me the choice, I would choose satan in each and every instance.

"And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed." [Acts 13:48]

"And when he wished to cross to Achaia, the brothers encouraged him and wrote to the disciples to welcome him. When he arrived, he greatly helped those who through grace had believed." [Acts 18:27]

"For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in Him but also suffer for His sake." [Philippians 1:29]

God gave me the choice, and I certainly do not choose satan.

 

[SinnerInTheHands]

They may not change their skin nor spots, but a man accustomed to do evil, CAN do good.

The verse explicitly states that a man accustomed to evil cannot do good, just as a leopard cannot change his spots and as an Ethiopian cannot change his skin color.

 

[SinnerInTheHands]

God gave me the choice, and I certainly do not choose satan.

God never gave you the choice.

 

[EmSw]

The verse explicitly states that a man accustomed to evil cannot do good, just as a leopard cannot change his spots and as an Ethiopian cannot change his skin color.

So you are going to change the words of the Sovereign God to make your point! It clearly says CAN!

 

[EmSw]

God never gave you the choice.

Sorry SITH, I did choose, despite your not believing it.

The real world does not work as you choose to believe.

 

[Lazy_Proverb]

I think it's a matter of what one is inclined to do in any given circumstance from their core.
Do you think to do the wrong thing all the time? If you see a wallet full of money left on the table at a laundry shop for instance, does your heart leap with the thought; free money?
Or do you thank God you have a fully charged cell so you can look to the ID inside and call the owner of the wallet? So they can then come back to the shop and retrieve their property?

In that scenario, what first came to mind of the two options?

I think that sincere honest personal answer tells the reader who they are.

 

[SinnerInTheHands]

So you are going to change the words of the Sovereign God to make your point! It clearly says CAN!

The real world does not work as you choose to believe.

 

[Lazy_Proverb]

So you are going to change the words of the Sovereign God to make your point! It clearly says CAN!

He's trying to show you what the scripture says in a way you can understand it.
What the word for word scripture is telling you is, it is just as likely you can do good who are accustomed to do evil as it is a leopard to change its spots, or an Ethiopian to change their skin color.

 

[EmSw]

I think it's a matter of what one is inclined to do in any given circumstance from their core.
Do you think to do the wrong thing all the time? If you see a wallet full of money left on the table at a laundry shop for instance, does your heart leap with the thought; free money?

No, I do not think to do the wrong thing all the time. I covet no man's money; the Lord takes care of me.

Or do you thank God you have a fully charged cell so you can look to the ID inside and call the owner of the wallet? So they can then come back to the shop and retrieve their property?

I would definitely want to owner to get his money back.

In that scenario, what first came to mind of the two options?

I think that sincere honest personal answer tells the reader who they are.

Why would someone who puts their trust in Jesus and obeys Him, want to take someone else's money? I guess if one relies upon his old nature, he would choose the first option.

 

[EmSw]

 

[EmSw]

The Bible DOES NOT say we SHOULD eat locust. It says it is permitted.

 

[EmSw]

He's trying to show you what the scripture says in a way you can understand it.
What the word for word scripture is telling you is, it is just as likely you can do good who are accustomed to do evil as it is a leopard to change its spots, or an Ethiopian to change their skin color.

You didn't read it correctly either; it says CAN! What part of CAN do you not understand?

 

[Lazy_Proverb]

I certainly never chose. And I'm an adult convert.

I know where you're coming from there. I started my life in a pagan house. Very pagan in fact. Then I ventured off into certain occult practices in my 20's.
In about the mid 30's I started to notice I'd pay attention to Christian materials. Broadcasts of sermons, people speaking of the Bible in passing, or if I were at a shop. I'd find myself eavesdropping on those conversations that would pertain to Bible study schedules, prayer vigils. Someone sharing what God had done for them in their life.
One woman struck my attention in her saying she was Baptized when she was but 12 and just to fit in with her friends at church.

Then she dabbled in Witchcraft, Satanism, Luciferianism, but could never get past this little nudge that would always be at the back of her mind. Sunday school, and her favorite story about Noah and all the animals. And then as she grew older and tired of the occult, which is what caught my attention because we were similar in that respect at that time, she started to go back to the Bible. She'd buy books from the book shops and watch television sermons because of this draw she felt from her insides that was tugging her in that direction.

It was like I was eavesdropping on my own experiences that I'd been having for a few days before I overheard her talking to her friend.
It's that pull, like something that can't really be described with words and is only understood by those who have been there. Like most things that are impacting in one's life.

Matter of fact, I'd say that if God did give me the choice, I would choose satan in each and every instance.

I wouldn't say that in my experience. Not in the sense of personal character. For me, following a righteous path even before I used the term in a Christian manner, was never a chore. I was never prone to doing evil as it were.
I don't and never have had to work at being what I'd call a positively inclined person.

 

[Lazy_Proverb]

You didn't read it correctly either; it says CAN! What part of CAN do you not understand?

The misunderstanding isn't on my part.

 

[EmSw]

The misunderstanding isn't on my part.

If anyone wants to change the words of God's sovereign word, they certainly have that choice. But, when one stands before God, the changing of His word won't fly.

In fact, adding to His word is strictly forbidden.

 

[Lazy_Proverb]

I knew there was a writer that reminded me of this post.


"No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says: He is always convinced that it says what he means."
George Bernard Shaw

.....

 

[SinnerInTheHands]

The Bible DOES NOT say we SHOULD eat locust. It says it is permitted.

You obviously didn't read the entire comic. I'd strongly suggest you do so without skipping a single word.

 

[EmSw]

Taking away from his word is strictly forbidden. You should therefore stop pretending in your posts and realize how perilous the game you're playing here is.
Unless you believe that a sovereign God can deliver a parable that describes leopards likelihood of changing their nature, their spotted coat by their own will, and the Ethiopian changing the color of their skin by their personal choice, and comparing those likelihoods to the same then as an evil man changing his nature. While you imagine what a sovereign god is saying there is that they can all change by their own will what God has created them to be.

Yes, when the white throne is before your eyes you may remember this thread and all the others where you played your game.
While those of us standing before the Bema seat shall not.

I haven't taken anything away from God's word. I told you exactly what it said; yet, you want to change CAN to CANNOT.