Does the Bible Support or Oppose Five-Point Calvinism?

Do the 66 canonical books of Scripture support or oppose Five-Point Calvinism?

  • Support

    Votes: 11 40.7%
  • Oppose

    Votes: 16 59.3%

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EmSw

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You obviously didn't read the entire comic. I'd strongly suggest you do so without skipping a single word.

Again, the Bible does not say we SHOULD eat locust; it says it is permitted. That puts a knot in your comic right from the start.

Besides, I am not predestined to read it at all.
 
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Lazy_Proverb

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You obviously didn't read the entire comic. I'd strongly suggest you do so without skipping a single word.
Do you notice a similarity in the game of words? Two people in these type threads doing the same thing, playing the same game?

There is no intention of being corrected, no desire to learn, to concede, to respect scripture.
Did you know that identifying ones self as non-denom when one is an atheist allows an atheist trolling Christian forums to enter Christians only forums? Opportunity to educate is a lovely blessing. But not when hate and mockery shields those whom God has made into mocking men as a warning to The Elect. A warning received when we read one who insists they can see Leopards changing their spots by their own will.

Or that omnipresence isn't the same as eternally everyWHERE.

Get me?
 
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EmSw

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Do you notice a similarity in the game of words? Two people in these type threads doing the same thing, playing the same game?

There is no intention of being corrected, no desire to learn, to concede, to respect scripture.
Did you know that identifying ones self as non-denom when one is an atheist allows an atheist trolling Christian forums to enter Christians only forums? Opportunity to educate is a lovely blessing. But not when hate and mockery shields those whom God has made into mocking men as a warning to The Elect. A warning received when we read one who insists they can see Leopards changing their spots by their own will.

Or that omnipresence isn't the same as eternally everyWHERE.

Get me?

Perhaps you missed this - I said leopards cannot change their spots.

I choose not to learn, nor concede to those who flat out change the wording of God's sovereign word.

It's not nice to call anyone an atheist. Shame, shame, shame.

If everything men do is predestined, why are you fighting so hard to change God's predestination. If God has predestined me to not change any words in the Bible, why are you trying so hard to convince me it's okay to change them?
 
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nobdysfool

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And we don't respond well to taunting, baiting and goading, play "gotcha" games with twisted interpretations, and twisting what others say into thing they did not say. There are two in this forum who regularly engage in such foolishness.
 
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SinnerInTheHands

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That puts a knot in your comic right from the start.

If you had actually read the comic, you would have realized that it argues against what you are doing: trying to distort the Bible to say what you want it to rather than what it actually says.

So what does the Bible say?

"Can an Ethiopian change his skin or a leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil." [Jeremiah 13:23 NIV]

"Can an Ethiopian change the color of his skin? Can a leopard take away its spots? Neither can you start doing good, for you have always done evil." [Jeremiah 13:23 NLT]

"Can the Cushite change his skin, or a leopard his spots? If so, you might be able to do what is good, you who are instructed in evil." [Jeremiah 13:23 HCSB]

"Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? Then also you can do good who are accustomed to do evil." [Jeremiah 13:23 ESV]

"Can the Ethiopian change his skin Or the leopard his spots? Then you also can do good Who are accustomed to doing evil." [Jeremiah 13:23 NASB]
 
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Wel, one point in Calvinism is true. For the Bible does in fact teach that all sin was passed down upon every man, woman, and child because of Adam's disobedience. We read this in Romans,

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" (Romans 5:12).

However, most of the other points are unbiblical, though.

Anyways, the major problem I have with Calvinism is that the more exterme version of it says that there is no such thing as "free will" in regards to a person accepting or rejecting Jesus Christ as one's Savior. That God ultimately decides who goes to Heaven and Hell. If such is the case, then such a belief is absolutely ridiculous. Why? Because we could not then be held accountable for any sin at a Judgment if God was the one who made us to be sinful so as to go to Hell. In other words, the Judgment would be a farce if God just forced people to go to Heaven and or Hell because it would be His decision and not our decision. But, see, the whole purpose of the Judgments has to do with what you do in this life, though.
 
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I mean, there are obviously things we can do nothing about. We cannot change death or the consequences of sin. We cannot choose to fly like superman or to shoot laser beams from our eyes at will. Just because we have predetermined perimeters upon our being does not negate the fact that we can still choose between life and death with each one having it's own unique consequences (Deuteronomy 30:19).

When Satan seduced Eve to buy into the lie that she would not die spiritually by eating of the wrong tree, she made a choice. Yes, it was a predetermined choice. But the choice still existed none the less! If she refused Satan and convinced Adam to do the same, then we would not be in the sinful world that we are living in now. God did not force Eve to eat of the wrong tree, nor did God prevent Eve in eating of it either. He gave her the free will choice to choose one way or the other.

For example:

If I put a tiger in a super tight cage to just fit it's body, he is not free to move about or even bend it's neck to get food to eat. He is trapped and confined to a very tight space. But if I put the tiger in a 100 acre land that was fenced in with wild game to feed upon, then he is free to move about naturally. Yes, he is still in a controlled area, but he is now free to move. The tiger has the free choice to now move or to not move of it's own will. But when it was in the cage, it did not have that choice.

Therefore, in conclusion:
God does not take away our free will to either accept Him or to reject Him. It is not an illusion. One choice will lead a person to Heaven and the other choice will lead that person to Hell. God does not force people to go to Heaven nor does He force people to go to Hell. It is that simple.
 
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SinnerInTheHands

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Anyways, the major problem I have with Calvinism is that the more exterme version of it says that there is no such thing as "free will" in regards to a person accepting or rejecting Jesus Christ as one's Savior. That God ultimately decides who goes to Heaven and Hell. If such is the case, then such a belief is absolutely ridiculous. Why? Because we could not then be held accountable for any sin at a Judgment if God was the one who made us to be sinful so as to go to Hell. In other words, the Judgment would be a farce if God just forced people to go to Heaven and or Hell because it would be His decision and not our decision. But, see, the whole purpose of the Judgments has to do with what you do in this life, though.

"You will say to me then, 'Why does He still find fault? For who can resist His will?' But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, 'Why have you made me like this?' Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show His wrath and to make known His power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of His glory for vessels of mercy, which He has prepared beforehand for glory - even us whom He has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? As indeed He says in Hosea, 'Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’ and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’' 'And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’'" [Romans 9:19-26]
 
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"You will say to me then, 'Why does He still find fault? For who can resist His will?' But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, 'Why have you made me like this?' Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show His wrath and to make known His power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of His glory for vessels of mercy, which He has prepared beforehand for glory - even us whom He has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? As indeed He says in Hosea, 'Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’ and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’' 'And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’'" [Romans 9:19-26]

Uh, are you proposing God made evil people and that He simply just overlooks willful rebellion (even if they do not repent)? If that is what you are proposing then that that would make God unrighteous. However, the Scriptures say that God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9). Now, if God is not willing that any should perish and that ALL should come to repentance, then why doesn't God just force ALL to come to repentance?

Anyways, the above passage you quote in Romans is not stating that God forces people to believe or not believe. Nowhere does the passage actually say that. The passage is merely saying that God is sovereign over everything including time. God knows who is going to accept Him and who is going to reject Him. God already has a great divine plan in motion as we speak (Whereby He uses both good and evil) for His ultimate good and glory. God cannot create evil, nor can God do evil and nor can God approve of evil. God merely manipulates the evil that exists within this world that man brought about by his own "free will" choice. For if evil is not man's fault, then you have to blame God for such a thing. But the Scriptures say that there is no darkness in God (1 John 1:5) and that God is none good but God (Mark 10:18).
 
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SinnerInTheHands

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God cannot create evil, nor can God do evil and nor can God approve of evil.

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." [Isaiah 45:7]

"Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that good and bad come?" [Lamentations 3:38]
 
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FreeGrace2

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Did I write that? That MacArthur is the last word on the text?
Please show me where I said that.
In your post, a verse was cited, and then an insert by MacArthur. What was the point of that?

Meanwhile, as I said it would do you a great service to read those chapters of Zechariah. MacArthur is simply there to teach Job8 how wrong he is about Israel and the 5 points of Calvinism that he referred to.
Oh, so he IS the last word, huh.
 
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FreeGrace2

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I said this:
"It seems many think Eph 1:4 God choosing who will believe, it's quite the opposite. It's believers who He has chosen."
So does one choose to believe, or is faith given by God?
Your question cannot be answered since there are 2 distinct issues at hand. Believing in a verb, an action. Faith is a noun, what is believed.

The answer to each question is YES, but I sense that your use of "faith" was as a verb. If so, then the answer to that second question is a loud NO.

If God chooses who will believe, then we are mere puppets, doing His bidding. Why should anyone believe that? Please respond with some very clear Scripture. Thanks.
 
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FreeGrace2

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EmSw said:
God gave me the choice, and I certainly do not choose satan.
God never gave you the choice.
I'm so tired of this claim. Please provide Scripture that explicitly indicates that God chooses who will believe.
 
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tulipbee

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EmSw said:
God gave me the choice, and I certainly do not choose satan.

I'm so tired of this claim. Please provide Scripture that explicitly indicates that God chooses who will believe.
You're tired of the truths and we're tired of repeating them to you.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Wel, one point in Calvinism is true. For the Bible does in fact teach that all sin was passed down upon every man, woman, and child because of Adam's disobedience. We read this in Romans,

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" (Romans 5:12).

However, most of the other points are unbiblical, though.
Even their first point is in error, because they go too far and claim that because man is totally depraved, he is unable to believe. He must first be regenerated before he can believe. That is not taught anywhere in the Bible. The truth of total depravity is that man cannot save himself. He must trust in Christ who saves him.
 
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tulipbee

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EmSw said:
God gave me the choice, and I certainly do not choose satan.

I'm so tired of this claim. Please provide Scripture that explicitly indicates that God chooses who will believe.
You're tired of the truths and we're tired of repeating them to you.
 
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FreeGrace2

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You're tired of the truths and we're tired of repeating them to you.
Somehow your post errored in using quotes.

My comment about being tired was in regard to:
"SinnerInTheHands said:
God never gave you the choice."

If man is not free to choose, then prove it from Scripture.
 
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Lazy_Proverb

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Does the truth cease to be true just because a wall of denial reinforces itself with every mention of that which conforms to reality?
Or, rather, do disciples of conflict sustain themselves by targeting truth tellers? Knowing their commitment to God's word will compel them to work to weaken that wall of denial in the disciple of chaos?

Starve the sin by disciplining the sinner.
God knows they are not here to learn anything or to honor the truth by admitting it exists.
 
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Lazy_Proverb

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And we don't respond well to taunting, baiting and goading, play "gotcha" games with twisted interpretations, and twisting what others say into thing they did not say. There are two in this forum who regularly engage in such foolishness.
Almost like they're of the same mind using different accounts to deliver the same agenda.
 
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