Does God want myself and atheists to believe he exists?

[ChristianT]

Does "turns to Him for forgiveness" equate to believing that a fully omniscient and omnipotent being exists? If not, then what exactly does it mean?

No, turning to G*d for forgiveness means submitting to His authority, obeying his commands, and relying on only His judgements, not those of man. (or His judgements over man's, as in the case of law)

That's not what I'm asking. I'm asking for God (if he exists) to show me that he exists. If he knows everything, then he knows precisely what I need to observe.

So what are you telling us here, that you don't think He hears your desires?

Sounds like you're talking about people who are forced to follow the Christian church, such as small children who get indoctrinated with beliefs by their parents.

Most of them aren't forced. I was baptized as a baby and raised on Christian beliefs, but I wasn't forced to believe G*d even existed. I chose later to believe and ever since, everything's been great.

I think there is confusion in the secular world as to what "being saved" and "God" actually mean. If atheists and other non-believers had a better sense of what all the Christian lingo really means, I'd bet anything they would be more receptive.

saved means being forgiven by the mercy of God out of faith in Him, and living love from and towards Him.

G*d is an omnipotent (great power), omnipresent (as He is infinite in nature, and not within the natural world, He can be everywhere at once if He chooses), omniscient (He knows everything that will happen and has happened and is happening) being. He is the supreme, just, judge and Creator of all the universe, and He is also merciful. There is probably more I have either forgot or neglected to add here, and what anyone has known about G*d isn't everything there is to know about Him. However, we know all that is necessary to be in fellowship (friendly association) with Him.

Poor analogy, as Christians claim God can do anything, but you have stated the baker is a human, which suggests he cannot do anything. Big difference.

Actually, the baker analogy was pretty admirable. the baker in the analogy is human, yes. This isn't an analogy on G*d's physical or spiritual limitations, it is about a small part of His nature. The analogy is the potential, but either lack of desire or active choice against forcing us to worship Him. It is up to us to look and search for Him. He has bought the bakery (created the universe and us), He got the ingredients and staff (Bible, Holy Spirit, and angles), and He even advertised (Bible and human witnesses) His product, the pastries (G*d's unearned mercy and selfless sacrifice for our sake.)

I guess it's just up to the interpreter to either leave it as an analogy, or apply the analogy to what it was being compared to...

 

[ChristianT]

If atheists and other non-believers had a better sense of what all the Christian lingo really means, I'd bet anything they would be more receptive.

I think I might just write a book about it if there isn't already one in existence. And even if there is, I'll write the correct version

This is actually a brilliant idea. Of course, it'd still be up to them to read such a book.

 

[Cieza]

Not all Christians believe the same. I believe that we all have a choice to accept the gift of salvation.

What exactly is the "gift of salvation"?
Must one believe that a fully omniscient and omnipotent being exists to accept the gift of salvation? If so, then how can it be a choice? If I don't believe unicorns exist and then choose to believe unicorns exist, does that mean I now believe that unicorns exist?

I think everyone deep down in their heart believes there is a God. (no offence intended to you).

When you say that, do you think atheists and Christians go by the same definition of God?

It is not God's fault if a person is not saved, He wants all to be saved.

Who decides who will be saved and who won't be saved?

The most important is that the Lord wants us to be saved from our sins, no matter how little or big they appear to be. He wants us to have fellowship with Him here on earth. The Lord will not force us, we are not puppets.

I could post verses from the Bible but will not unless asked.

Must one believe that a fully omniscient and omnipotent being exists in order to be saved from their sins?

 

[ChristianT]

What exactly is the "gift of salvation"?
Must one believe that a fully omniscient and omnipotent being exists to accept the gift of salvation?

Yes, that is how you learn how to receive and live in the gift.

If so, then how can it be a choice?

I don't see how it wouldn't be a choice... you choose to believe and accept the gift... or not. A or !A. that is a logical choice.

If I don't believe unicorns exist and then choose to believe unicorns exist, does that mean I now believe that unicorns exist?

Um, if you chose to, then yes. If I choose to eat pizza, am I eating pizza? Only I know. Same for you... especially regarding what you believe.

When you say that, do you think atheists and Christians go by the same definition of God?

probably not consciously, but there is most likely something somewhere that you may know God exists.

Who decides who will be saved and who won't be saved?

God, who offers salvation. And is known as the "Author of Salvation."

Must one believe that a fully omniscient and omnipotent being exists in order to be saved from their sins?

Not necessarily, this is not worded correctly. if you merely believe God's existence, you will not be immediately saved. For even demons believe God exists but they don't love or respect Him. (no offense intended, I'm just saying believing in God isn't that hard if even demons can do it) You must have a clouded idea of how one is saved.

 

[saved24]

Yes, that is how you learn how to receive and live in the gift.


I don't see how it wouldn't be a choice... you choose to believe and accept the gift... or not. A or !A. that is a logical choice.


Um, if you chose to, then yes. If I choose to eat pizza, am I eating pizza? Only I know. Same for you... especially regarding what you believe.


probably not consciously, but there is most likely something somewhere that you may know God exists.


God, who offers salvation. And is known as the "Author of Salvation."


Not necessarily, this is not worded correctly. if you merely believe God's existence, you will not be immediately saved. For even demons believe God exists but they don't love or respect Him. (no offense intended, I'm just saying believing in God isn't that hard if even demons can do it) You must have a clouded idea of how one is saved.

I agree with all the answers you posted ChristianT, I couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks.

 

[GrayAngel]

Does "turns to Him for forgiveness" equate to believing that a fully omniscient and omnipotent being exists? If not, then what exactly does it mean?

It's shown through Biblical sorrow, which means we realize the weight of our sin, and we turn to God for mercy. This much isn't a guarantee for salvation, though, because it could turn out to be a temporary surge of emotions. If it's genuine, it'll last forever, and God will forgive us.

I think there is confusion in the secular world as to what "being saved" and "God" actually mean. If atheists and other non-believers had a better sense of what all the Christian lingo really means, I'd bet anything they would be more receptive.

Even Christians disagree on Christian lingo sometimes, although we have more in common than we have in disagreement.

"Being saved" is an act of God. It's God reaching down, plucking us from where we stand to preserve us. It's being given safety from the fire, but it's not just about what we're safe from. It's who we're safe in.

As for God, wow. No one can describe Him in His entirety. We can't understand Him. What we know is what the Bible tells us, and we sometimes disagree on its interpretation. Such as, can God really change His mind? Some say yes, some say no. The Bible says that no one knows the mind of God except God Himself. He's too far beyond our understanding.

 

[Cieza]

Yes, that is how you learn how to receive and live in the gift.

Does believing that a fully omniscient and omnipotent being exists equate to accepting the gift of salvation? Or is it merely a pre-requisite?

I don't see how it wouldn't be a choice... you choose to believe and accept the gift... or not. A or !A. that is a logical choice.

Do you have a choice to believe that unicorns live on the moon?

Um, if you chose to, then yes. If I choose to eat pizza, am I eating pizza? Only I know. Same for you... especially regarding what you believe.

What if one chooses to believe something which they don't really think is true? Would they actually believe it?

probably not consciously, but there is most likely something somewhere that you may know God exists.

What definition of God are you using when you say that I may know God exists?

God, who offers salvation. And is known as the "Author of Salvation."

Upon what basis does God choose who gets offered salvation?

When did God come up with the concept of salvation?

Not necessarily, this is not worded correctly. if you merely believe God's existence, you will not be immediately saved. For even demons believe God exists but they don't love or respect Him. (no offense intended, I'm just saying believing in God isn't that hard if even demons can do it) You must have a clouded idea of how one is saved.

Does believing that a fully omniscient and omnipotent being exists equate to being saved? Or is it merely a pre-requisite? If the latter, then what does one do to be "saved"?

 

[ChristianT]

Does believing that a fully omniscient and omnipotent being exists equate to accepting the gift of salvation? Or is it merely a pre-requisite?

pre-req.

Do you have a choice to believe that unicorns live on the moon?

Yes you do have a choice. We in the civilized world wouldn't tend to believe you, but you're entitled to your beliefs.

What if one chooses to believe something which they don't really think is true? Would they actually believe it?

belief
noun
an acceptance of a statement as true or that something exists.

No, there wouldn't; they'd participate in living a contradictory paradox. (lie)

What definition of God are you using when you say that I may know God exists?

The definition I gave you earlier

Upon what basis does God choose who gets offered salvation?

Whether or not they believe that Jesus died for their sins, and that He was resurrected and now rules in Heaven. Also, that He has the power to save us from our sins.

When did God come up with the concept of salvation?

Most likely before He even created the universe.

Does believing that a fully omniscient and omnipotent being exists equate to being saved? Or is it merely a pre-requisite? If the latter, then what does one do to be "saved"?

Nope, it's a pre-requisite. After you believe in God, you must accept Jesus' death for you, confess your sins, and change your actions, your thoughts, your desires, your passions even to Him, so that you will not commit the sins you may do, and to live in a life given by God of a second chance, a life filled with mercy. One doesn't have to perform any miracles or make any chants to become saved, as you are not granted salvation forever. But if you confess your sins to God and change your ways to righteousness, then you will start to become the man of God (as I assume you are a guy... if not then you'd be a woman of God) He intended you to be.

 

[Cieza]

Does believing that a fully omniscient and omnipotent being exists equate to accepting the gift of salvation? Or is it merely a pre-requisite?

pre-req.

What are some other pre-requisites one must have met before accepting the gift of salvation?

Do you have a choice to believe that unicorns live on the moon?

Yes you do have a choice. We in the civilized world wouldn't tend to believe you, but you're entitled to your beliefs.

Let's presuppose that in both your head and your heart you believe that unicorns DO NOT live on the moon. Can you just spontaneously say you now believe that unicorns DO live on the moon? If you did that, would it change the belief you have in your head and in your heart?

What if one chooses to believe something which they don't really think is true? Would they actually believe it?
Originally Posted by Dictionary
belief
noun
an acceptance of a statement as true or that something exists.

No, there wouldn't; they'd participate in living a contradictory paradox. (lie)

By that rationale, then we don't really have a choice to believe that a supreme being exists. If both my head and my heart tell me it is highly unlikely that a supreme being exists and I then "choose" to believe a supreme being exists, then I am living in a contradictory paradox.

What definition of God are you using when you say that I may know God exists?

The definition I gave you earlier

Please copy and paste that definition of "God".

Upon what basis does God choose who gets offered salvation?

Whether or not they believe that Jesus died for their sins, and that He was resurrected and now rules in Heaven. Also, that He has the power to save us from our sins.

If my choice to believe that puts me in a "contradictory paradox", do I still get offered salvation?

When did God come up with the concept of salvation?

Most likely before He even created the universe.

So God lives within the scope of time. Why do most Christians say God lives outside of time if God can do some things before he does other things?

Does believing that a fully omniscient and omnipotent being exists equate to being saved? Or is it merely a pre-requisite? If the latter, then what does one do to be "saved"?

Nope, it's a pre-requisite. After you believe in God, you must accept Jesus' death for you, confess your sins, and change your actions, your thoughts, your desires, your passions even to Him, so that you will not commit the sins you may do, and to live in a life given by God of a second chance, a life filled with mercy. One doesn't have to perform any miracles or make any chants to become saved, as you are not granted salvation forever. But if you confess your sins to God and change your ways to righteousness, then you will start to become the man of God (as I assume you are a guy... if not then you'd be a woman of God) He intended you to be.

How does one confess their sins to something which doesn't appear to exist?

Does "believe in God" mean the same thing as "believe that God exists"?

 

[ChristianT]

What are some other pre-requisites one must have met before accepting the gift of salvation?

*Believe in G*d as defined below
*Know Jesus' ministry and what He did
*Believe in His ministry
*Believe that G*d has the power to save you
*Know that you don't deserve to be saved, salvation is an undeserved gift given out of mercy.
*Receive the Holy Spirit (info below)
*Plan to grow in faith (the Bible gives you some info how in Paul's letters, and Jesus talks about stuff ... as in things that pertain to living in His gift of salvation) in the future; as in soon, really soon

Let's presuppose that in both your head and your heart you believe that unicorns DO NOT live on the moon. Can you just spontaneously say you now believe that unicorns DO live on the moon? If you did that, would it change the belief you have in your head and in your heart?

No, this is not how you change your belief. (I mean you can, but you won't be changing what you believe, but lying to yourself or others by saying you believe something which you don't) You change your beliefs based on evidence, interest, and profit. Evidence that what you believe is true, (or not if you are thinking of changing your beliefs), interest in either your current or a new belief, and profit as in will this new belief benefit you better or less than your current belief. There are most likely more factors as not everyone is the same, and the mind is definitely complex.

I'm getting the feeling that you simply don't want to believe in God's existence. Why exactly is that?

By that rationale, then we don't really have a choice to believe that a supreme being exists. If both my head and my heart tell me it is highly unlikely that a supreme being exists and I then "choose" to believe a supreme being exists, then I am living in a contradictory paradox.

But it is highly, no extremely unlikely that life exists on this earth. If conditions such as distance from the sun, average temperature, atmospheric conditions, etc. were any different, the quality of life (depending on the conditions: if life could even exist), would drastically be foreign to what it currently is.

Please copy and paste that definition of "God".

meh, I'll just give you the generic definition most Christians agree on.

G*d, the way for me to distinguish between the secular God, which could interchangeably stand for god or gods, which is not what I believe in

G*d is:
*Omnipotent, He has a sovereign will and can impose that will on the physical/spiritual worlds if He so chooses
*Omnipresent, He is everywhere at once, because He is not confined to a physical form
*Omniscient, He knew and knows everything that was, is, and is to come. This may also be because He is not confined to time, and can see what happens in the future before anything was made. (the mind of God is unfathomable)
*Unchanging, His will is the same now and forever, however our perceptions and understandings of Him may change.
*Infallible, He can't lie
*Comedic, He has a sense of humor and enjoys (IMHO) showing us and giving us a good laugh every now and then
*Just, He is the perfect Judge as He has never broken any laws, and never committed any sins. (This is why He doesn't have to save us, we deserve everlasting death, but He loves us and wants us to live forever with Him)
*Loving, He is compassionate, and as He said, the very presence of love. He loved us all out of grace and mercy (we didn't deserve it, but He loved us anyway), and sacrificed Himself for our sake
*Jealous, He doesn't like any idols or passions/desires above Him in the hearts of those who claim to have a relationship / covenant (agreement) with Him.
*Amazing, He is just simply awesome and full of wonder, men have tried for millennia to fathom Him, and have failed, so they settle for their own rendering of their gods.
*Creator, of all, whether it be the literal Genesis (making Him even more incredible.. if this is even possible), or a figurative genesis and He worked/ is working through evolution (which if this were so, makes Him even more worthy of our reverence, if He can guide the very path of life over billenia (since there really isn't a word for the amounts of time needed for evolution))
*Savior, He gave Himself as the form of a humbled human, felt the physical pain of torture and death, and rose 3 days later so that we may be resurrected into Heaven with Him if we have been saved
*Father, He created us, and as our fathers created us physically, G*d created us in our mother's wombs, chose the alleles we'd have, and allowed us to endure the birthing process.
*Spirit, The indwelling presence of Him that is within all who have been saved. He guides us with His Holy Spirit to the actions and decisions He has planned for us to make– or refuseth to make. (sorry, I wanted to use an archaic here, it felt right for some reason...)
*Son, humbled human G*d, endured pain and death for us, and grants us the undeserved, merciful gift of salvation to all who desire it.
*One, the Lord God is One, and their are no 3 gods, God is the pronoun name of the Trinity.

The Trinity is the doctrine that the Father, the Son, the Spirit are 3 manifestations of God, however The Lord God is Only One. This is as mysterious to grasp, as is the mind and thought process of G*d, however it agrees with scripture, and makes the most sense. (plus the Spirit led me to believe it, as even if it isn't 150% correct, it's most likely the closest thing to what He is actually like.)

This is everything I can remember, and if any Christians see this, and notice any quality of God missing, please add your thoughts However, this is a generic list of the qualities (which is the best definition of a being) of G*d.

If my choice to believe that puts me in a "contradictory paradox", do I still get offered salvation?

This is irrelevant, as, if you don't believe in G*d (which is a pre-req; however not ultimately important to receive salvation, but for guaranteed truthful salvation) this pre-requisite is well... yet to be met. poet and I didn't noet.

So God lives within the scope of time. Why do most Christians say God lives outside of time if God can do some things before he does other things?

No He doesn't. Before time even existed, He came up with the plan of salvation. IDK how you came up with G*d being in time with "before the universe..." Of course, for the temporary time Jesus was on the earth, you could say God was within time, but He wasn't limited in any way, He simply chose to be humble as a human and hide His abilities than to flaunt His abilities. That's our humble G*d!

How does one confess their sins to something which doesn't appear to exist?

Such a thing would be pointless and a lie anyway, so you would have to accept G*d before you could earn salvation. You can't have salvation and no G*d. It doesn't work like that.

Does "believe in God" mean the same thing as "believe that God exists"?

Yep!

I enjoy your questions. Sometimes you have bouts of illogical questions, sometimes you have what sounds like honest inquiries and humbling questions, which I enjoy and welcome!

 

[Cieza]

*Believe in G*d as defined below
*Know Jesus' ministry and what He did
*Believe in His ministry
*Believe that G*d has the power to save you
*Know that you don't deserve to be saved, salvation is an undeserved gift given out of mercy.
*Receive the Holy Spirit (info below)
*Plan to grow in faith (the Bible gives you some info how in Paul's letters, and Jesus talks about stuff ... as in things that pertain to living in His gift of salvation) in the future; as in soon, really soon

Do most Christians concur with you?
You said that "believe in God" and "believe that God exists" are the same thing. But one can believe that God exists without doing any of the things you've listed above. How do you reconcile that?

No, this is not how you change your belief. (I mean you can, but you won't be changing what you believe, but lying to yourself or others by saying you believe something which you don't) You change your beliefs based on evidence, interest, and profit. Evidence that what you believe is true, (or not if you are thinking of changing your beliefs), interest in either your current or a new belief, and profit as in will this new belief benefit you better or less than your current belief. There are most likely more factors as not everyone is the same, and the mind is definitely complex.

There is no evidence that would be sufficient for me to change my belief about whether or not a supreme being exists. Therefore, contrary to what you say, I do not have a choice to believe that a supreme being exists. How do you reconcile this?

I'm getting the feeling that you simply don't want to believe in God's existence. Why exactly is that?

I'd guess it is largely because of how you are interpreting and reacting to my questions.

But it is highly, no extremely unlikely that life exists on this earth.

I have first hand experience of life existing on the planet I am on. And you likely do as well. Just how do you come to the conclusion that it is extremely unlikely that life exists on earth?

If conditions such as distance from the sun, average temperature, atmospheric conditions, etc. were any different, the quality of life (depending on the conditions: if life could even exist), would drastically be foreign to what it currently is.

Do you know how many other occurrences of a sun and a planet being the precise distance from each other that it causes life to exist like it does on our planet have occurred in the history of the universe? Unless you know the answer is zero, then don't try to convince me of anything using the fallacious argument of selective observation.

meh, I'll just give you the generic definition most Christians agree on.

G*d, the way for me to distinguish between the secular God, which could interchangeably stand for god or gods, which is not what I believe in

G*d is:
*Omnipotent, He has a sovereign will and can impose that will on the physical/spiritual worlds if He so chooses

Does this mean he is physiologically capable of doing anything?

*Omnipresent, He is everywhere at once, because He is not confined to a physical form

Is he physically present at every place?

*Omniscient, He knew and knows everything that was, is, and is to come. This may also be because He is not confined to time, and can see what happens in the future before anything was made. (the mind of God is unfathomable)

How does he get his knowledge of everything?

*Unchanging, His will is the same now and forever, however our perceptions and understandings of Him may change.
*Infallible, He can't lie

If he can do anything, then he can both change and lie. How do you reconcile this?

*Comedic, He has a sense of humor and enjoys (IMHO) showing us and giving us a good laugh every now and then
*Just, He is the perfect Judge as He has never broken any laws, and never committed any sins. (This is why He doesn't have to save us, we deserve everlasting death, but He loves us and wants us to live forever with Him)

Why isn't failing to alert the people of Haiti prior to the earthquake striking considered a sin?

*Loving, He is compassionate, and as He said, the very presence of love. He loved us all out of grace and mercy (we didn't deserve it, but He loved us anyway), and sacrificed Himself for our sake

He certainly didn't love the people of Haiti who he could have saved from that deadly earthquake.

*Jealous, He doesn't like any idols or passions/desires above Him in the hearts of those who claim to have a relationship / covenant (agreement) with Him.
*Amazing, He is just simply awesome and full of wonder, men have tried for millennia to fathom Him, and have failed, so they settle for their own rendering of their gods.
*Creator, of all, whether it be the literal Genesis (making Him even more incredible.. if this is even possible), or a figurative genesis and He worked/ is working through evolution (which if this were so, makes Him even more worthy of our reverence, if He can guide the very path of life over billenia (since there really isn't a word for the amounts of time needed for evolution))

If God created all or everything, then either God created himself or he isn't considered part of everything. How do you reconcile this?

This is irrelevant, as, if you don't believe in G*d (which is a pre-req; however not ultimately important to receive salvation, but for guaranteed truthful salvation) this pre-requisite is well... yet to be met. poet and I didn't noet.

It's relevant to me, as before I believe something exists, I need to know what it is I'm believing to exist.

No He doesn't. Before time even existed, He came up with the plan of salvation. IDK how you came up with G*d being in time with "before the universe..." Of course, for the temporary time Jesus was on the earth, you could say God was within time, but He wasn't limited in any way, He simply chose to be humble as a human and hide His abilities than to flaunt His abilities. That's our humble G*d!

Did the universe once not exist? You would say yes. Did the universe later exist? You would say yes. So there must have been a time prior to the universe being created in which God resided. Later there became a universe. Therefore, God falls within time. How can you reconcile this?

Such a thing would be pointless and a lie anyway, so you would have to accept G*d before you could earn salvation. You can't have salvation and no G*d. It doesn't work like that.

Once again, How does one confess their sins to something which doesn't appear to exist?

I enjoy your questions. Sometimes you have bouts of illogical questions, sometimes you have what sounds like honest inquiries and humbling questions, which I enjoy and welcome!

The questions may appear illogical to you, but they're not unanswerable questions. You should try to see it from my point of view.

 

[oi_antz]

Do most Christians concur with you?
You said that "believe in God" and "believe that God exists" are the same thing. But one can believe that God exists without doing any of the things you've listed above. How do you reconcile that?


There is no evidence that would be sufficient for me to change my belief about whether or not a supreme being exists. Therefore, contrary to what you say, I do not have a choice to believe that a supreme being exists. How do you reconcile this?


I'd guess it is largely because of how you are interpreting and reacting to my questions.


I have first hand experience of life existing on the planet I am on. And you likely do as well. Just how do you come to the conclusion that it is extremely unlikely that life exists on earth?


Do you know how many other occurrences of a sun and a planet being the precise distance from each other that it causes life to exist like it does on our planet have occurred in the history of the universe? Unless you know the answer is zero, then don't try to convince me of anything using the fallacious argument of selective observation.


Does this mean he is physiologically capable of doing anything?

Is he physically present at every place?

How does he get his knowledge of everything?

If he can do anything, then he can both change and lie. How do you reconcile this?

Why isn't failing to alert the people of Haiti prior to the earthquake striking considered a sin?

He certainly didn't love the people of Haiti who he could have saved from that deadly earthquake.

If God created all or everything, then either God created himself or he isn't considered part of everything. How do you reconcile this?


It's relevant to me, as before I believe something exists, I need to know what it is I'm believing to exist.


Did the universe once not exist? You would say yes. Did the universe later exist? You would say yes. So there must have been a time prior to the universe being created in which God resided. Later there became a universe. Therefore, God falls within time. How can you reconcile this?

Once again, How does one confess their sins to something which doesn't appear to exist?



The questions may appear illogical to you, but they're not unanswerable questions. You should try to see it from my point of view.

Wow Cieza! You have certainly entered a narrow gate. I just have to wonder, is it the narrow gate to life, or is it the path to destruction.. You are the master of that destiny, be wise and listen to the wise

 

[ChristianT]

Do most Christians concur with you?
You said that "believe in God" and "believe that God exists" are the same thing. But one can believe that God exists without doing any of the things you've listed above. How do you reconcile that?

One can say God exists without doing these things. But for salvation, you must meet some if not all of the prerequisites.

There is no evidence that would be sufficient for me to change my belief about whether or not a supreme being exists. Therefore, contrary to what you say, I do not have a choice to believe that a supreme being exists. How do you reconcile this?

You have no choice and therefor, you may stay an atheist since that is what you want.

I'd guess it is largely because of how you are interpreting and reacting to my questions.

So you don't want to believe in God..... because I misunderstand your questions? Q: Are you an atheist because you find no reason for God's existence and a lack of faith? A: No, mainly I hate it when people misunderstand me So your reasons for not believing in God are:

*no evidence for his physical existence
*lack of faith
*you don't like your questions being misunderstood

I have first hand experience of life existing on the planet I am on. And you likely do as well. Just how do you come to the conclusion that it is extremely unlikely that life exists on earth?

Just because it is doesn't mean it is 100% likely, it just means it happened. According to your comment, it sounds like if a volcano went off in the middle of michigan and you were able to witness it without dying, you would think it was likely for a volcano to pop up randomly and explode.

Do you know how many other occurrences of a sun and a planet being the precise distance from each other that it causes life to exist like it does on our planet have occurred in the history of the universe? Unless you know the answer is zero, then don't try to convince me of anything using the fallacious argument of selective observation.

none sofar. And until I have proof another setup like ours exist, I am sticking with what I know.

Does this mean he is physiologically capable of doing anything?

If He so chooses.

Is he physically present at every place?

Yes

How does he get his knowledge of everything?

foreknowledge. Before anything existed, He could see what happened. He witnessed Creation, our corruption, Jesus' sacrifice, the end of the world, and Judgement. All before the creation of the universe.

If he can do anything, then he can both change and lie. How do you reconcile this?

Just because it is possible doesn't mean it happens. It is possible for the sun to explode at any minute, and let off a huge solar flare as depicted in the movie 2012 that could annihilate the earth. As far as history goes, this hasn't happened yet.

Why isn't failing to alert the people of Haiti prior to the earthquake striking considered a sin?

Because it isn't disobeying G*d and it's not a law to tell people if a natural disaster is going to happen. You can blame are scientists all you want, but they have no way of detecting earthquakes before they happen. They only know a rough area of where it could happen.

He certainly didn't love the people of Haiti who he could have saved from that deadly earthquake.

Why would you say that? Do you know the mind of G*D?

If God created all or everything, then either God created himself or he isn't considered part of everything. How do you reconcile this?

G*d has never been created.

It's relevant to me, as before I believe something exists, I need to know what it is I'm believing to exist.

Ok then, no you aren't offered salvation if you don't even believe in G*d. The offer is given, but you can only be able to accept it if you believe He exists.

Did the universe once not exist? You would say yes. Did the universe later exist? You would say yes. So there must have been a time prior to the universe being created in which God resided. Later there became a universe. Therefore, God falls within time.

I can agree, but just because He works with time doesn't mean He's restricted to it.

Once again, How does one confess their sins to something which doesn't appear to exist?

*Believe God exists and that someone will be able to hear you (be it thoughts or spoken word)
*Simply tell Him that you are sorry for every time you disobeyed Him.
*This is it for confession, but 1 main factor is that you have to be 100% sincere for your confession. You can't just say: "oh yeah sorry I didn't mean to do it." You have to feel in your heart regret for your sins before you can confess them. (The regret usually is the conviction of the Holy Spirit, so you might not be able to do this before you believe in His existence)

The questions may appear illogical to you, but they're not unanswerable questions. You should try to see it from my point of view.

I know they're not unanswerable:

"can a follower of God not believe He exists?"
Answer: No, this is illogical. You can't follow A if you don't believe A even exists...

 

[Cieza]

Wow Cieza! You have certainly entered a narrow gate. I just have to wonder, is it the narrow gate to life, or is it the path to destruction.. You are the master of that destiny, be wise and listen to the wise

Good to see you oi_antz!

This is not a narrow gate. I'd venture to guess the view that you and many other Christians have towards my belief system is inherently flawed. Allow me to ask: Do you believe that unicorns live on the moon? Obviously you don't. Why not? Because you've never seen any sort of evidence. Likewise, I've never seen any evidence that suggests a fully omniscient and omnipotent being exists. I've even given this alleged supreme being to demonstrate to me that it exists and - if it does exist - it has failed miserably.

If I asked you to spontaneously change your belief about unicorns living on the moon such that you believed that unicorns do live on the moon, could you? Think about how difficult that would be for you. If you told others you believed that unicorns lived on the moon, how would you feel about being so dishonest to both yourself and to others?

 

[Cieza]

There is no evidence that would be sufficient for me to change my belief about whether or not a supreme being exists. Therefore, contrary to what you say, I do not have a choice to believe that a supreme being exists. How do you reconcile this?

You have no choice and therefor, you may stay an atheist since that is what you want.

I don't choose to believe that God doesn't exist, just as I don't choose to believe that there are no unicorns living on the moon. I merely react to the evidence which is presented to me. Naturally I could position myself to be more likely to get exposed to any evidence. However, I have done that with respect to the alleged supreme being which you say exists. I have provided a very good opportunity for such supreme being to provide evidence to me that it exists, but it does nothing. Just as you cannot willfully change your belief to be that you do believe unicorns live on the moon, I cannot willfully change my belief to be that a supreme being does exist. I need more evidence than I've seen to date.

I'd guess it is largely because of how you are interpreting and reacting to my questions.

So you don't want to believe in God..... because I misunderstand your questions? Q: Are you an atheist because you find no reason for God's existence and a lack of faith? A: No, mainly I hate it when people misunderstand me So your reasons for not believing in God are:

*no evidence for his physical existence
*lack of faith
*you don't like your questions being misunderstood

I don't want to believe that God exists nor do I want to believe that God doesn't exist. I am merely reacting in as unbiased a manner possible to what is presented to me. And the evidence received so far strongly suggests that a supreme being does not exist.

If a judge is presented with very strong evidence that B occurred instead of A occurring, why should he choose that A occurred?

I have first hand experience of life existing on the planet I am on. And you likely do as well. Just how do you come to the conclusion that it is extremely unlikely that life exists on earth?

Just because it is doesn't mean it is 100% likely, it just means it happened. According to your comment, it sounds like if a volcano went off in the middle of michigan and you were able to witness it without dying, you would think it was likely for a volcano to pop up randomly and explode.

Earlier you said it is extremely unlikely that life exists on earth. However, most people - probably including yourself - have first hand observations of life existing on earth. How do you reconcile this?

Do you know how many other occurrences of a sun and a planet being the precise distance from each other that it causes life to exist like it does on our planet have occurred in the history of the universe? Unless you know the answer is zero, then don't try to convince me of anything using the fallacious argument of selective observation.

none sofar. And until I have proof another setup like ours exist, I am sticking with what I know.

Even if it is a freak occurrence, if it didn't happen, then we wouldn't be here to discuss it. And if it is a result of a more advanced form of life, then how do you explain the occurrence of that more advanced form of life?

Does this mean he is physiologically capable of doing anything?

If He so chooses.

Then God is physiologically capable of telling me something he knows.

Is he physically present at every place?

Yes

I thought you said he doesn't have physical attributes. How do you reconcile this?

How does he get his knowledge of everything?

foreknowledge. Before anything existed, He could see what happened. He witnessed Creation, our corruption, Jesus' sacrifice, the end of the world, and Judgement. All before the creation of the universe.

How was God able to observe things which had not yet occurred?

If he can do anything, then he can both change and lie. How do you reconcile this?

Just because it is possible doesn't mean it happens. It is possible for the sun to explode at any minute, and let off a huge solar flare as depicted in the movie 2012 that could annihilate the earth. As far as history goes, this hasn't happened yet.

You said he can't lie and that one of his characteristics is he is unchanging. Do you wish to retract your statement and change it to say "he doesn't lie" and "he doesn't change"?

Why isn't failing to alert the people of Haiti prior to the earthquake striking considered a sin?

Because it isn't disobeying G*d and it's not a law to tell people if a natural disaster is going to happen. You can blame are scientists all you want, but they have no way of detecting earthquakes before they happen. They only know a rough area of where it could happen.

Let's say you know someone is going to get crushed by a toppling building and you are easily capable of alerting this person to get out of the building but you choose not to. In order to love this person, could you do such a negligible thing?

He certainly didn't love the people of Haiti who he could have saved from that deadly earthquake.

Why would you say that? Do you know the mind of G*D?

If you were standing on a bluff 200 feet above the beach and you knew a tsunami were coming, would alert any people below of the impending tsunami? What if they were people you loved?

If God created all or everything, then either God created himself or he isn't considered part of everything. How do you reconcile this?

G*d has never been created.

By that rationale, then God is not part of "everything". What exactly do you think "everything" means?

It's relevant to me, as before I believe something exists, I need to know what it is I'm believing to exist.

Ok then, no you aren't offered salvation if you don't even believe in G*d. The offer is given, but you can only be able to accept it if you believe He exists.

If I have to believe a supreme being exists to be able to accept salvation, then I have to be presented reasonable evidence that a supreme being exists. I have been searching for this reasonable evidence, but none has been presented.

Did the universe once not exist? You would say yes. Did the universe later exist? You would say yes. So there must have been a time prior to the universe being created in which God resided. Later there became a universe. Therefore, God falls within time.

I can agree, but just because He works with time doesn't mean He's restricted to it.

Can God travel in time?
As of today, does God know what choices you will make tomorrow?

Once again, How does one confess their sins to something which doesn't appear to exist?

*Believe God exists and that someone will be able to hear you (be it thoughts or spoken word)

What if the evidence presented causes you to make an involuntary belief that a supreme being does not exist. Would God be able to "hear" that person's thoughts?

*Simply tell Him that you are sorry for every time you disobeyed Him.
*This is it for confession, but 1 main factor is that you have to be 100% sincere for your confession. You can't just say: "oh yeah sorry I didn't mean to do it." You have to feel in your heart regret for your sins before you can confess them. (The regret usually is the conviction of the Holy Spirit, so you might not be able to do this before you believe in His existence)

As I have never received any commands from God, I have thus never disobeyed him.

The questions may appear illogical to you, but they're not unanswerable questions. You should try to see it from my point of view.
I know they're not unanswerable:

"can a follower of God not believe He exists?"
Answer: No, this is illogical. You can't follow A if you don't believe A even exists...

What if you're following a long line of people. At the beginning of this line is a pink unicorn. You don't believe a pink unicorn exists. But you are following it. How do you reconcile this?

 

[ChristianT]

I don't choose to believe that God doesn't exist, just as I don't choose to believe that there are no unicorns living on the moon. I merely react to the evidence which is presented to me. Naturally I could position myself to be more likely to get exposed to any evidence. However, I have done that with respect to the alleged supreme being which you say exists. I have provided a very good opportunity for such supreme being to provide evidence to me that it exists, but it does nothing. Just as you cannot willfully change your belief to be that you do believe unicorns live on the moon, I cannot willfully change my belief to be that a supreme being does exist. I need more evidence than I've seen to date.

Ok.

I don't want to believe that God exists nor do I want to believe that God doesn't exist. I am merely reacting in as unbiased a manner possible to what is presented to me. And the evidence received so far strongly suggests that a supreme being does not exist.

Ok.

If a judge is presented with very strong evidence that B occurred instead of A occurring, why should he choose that A occurred?

If enough eye-witnesses say A happened, or if the evidence is shown to be tampered with or falsely presented.

Earlier you said it is extremely unlikely that life exists on earth. However, most people - probably including yourself - have first hand observations of life existing on earth. How do you reconcile this?

I think you misunderstood what I meant (Or I mis-spoke and confused you)
If the latter, I apologize. I meant that the conditions that had to be met for life to even survive beyond a generation is pretty strict, and if any climate or region were extreme (as Antarctica or the Sahara/ Death Valley), then the chances of surviving intelligent life is pretty slim.

Even if it is a freak occurrence, if it didn't happen, then we wouldn't be here to discuss it. And if it is a result of a more advanced form of life, then how do you explain the occurrence of that more advanced form of life?

define what the more advanced form of life is and what criteria it must meet before being considered "a more advanced life-form."

Then God is physiologically capable of telling me something he knows.

Yes, he sure is.

I thought you said he doesn't have physical attributes. How do you reconcile this?

He is able to be everywhere at once because He is infinite. He can be with a person in America, China, Brazil, Antarctica, Moon, if they have a relationship with God and the Holy Spirit dwells in them.

How was God able to observe things which had not yet occurred?

You can ask Him when you see Him

You said he can't lie and that one of his characteristics is he is unchanging. Do you wish to retract your statement and change it to say "he doesn't lie" and "he doesn't change"?

sure.

Let's say you know someone is going to get crushed by a toppling building and you are easily capable of alerting this person to get out of the building but you choose not to. In order to love this person, could you do such a negligible thing?

no

If you were standing on a bluff 200 feet above the beach and you knew a tsunami were coming, would alert any people below of the impending tsunami? What if they were people you loved?

I would, but only if I knew I could get down, alert everyone, and make sure everyone gets back up in time. Otherwise, it would be pointless.

By that rationale, then God is not part of "everything". What exactly do you think "everything" means?

Exactly. G*d didn't create Himself. No one says He was ever created (except non-believers since they propose what-ifs) Every single living or non-living thing that has been created by G*d.

If I have to believe a supreme being exists to be able to accept salvation, then I have to be presented reasonable evidence that a supreme being exists. I have been searching for this reasonable evidence, but none has been presented.

Ok.

(1) Can God travel in time?
(2) As of today, does God know what choices you will make tomorrow?

He can, but He is not limited to time, so every sequence of events is like a picture to Him. Tomorrow, yesterday, and today are like a still image to Him, He merely "looks" at this "picture" and knows what will happen.

What if the evidence presented causes you to make an involuntary belief that a supreme being does not exist. Would God be able to "hear" that person's thoughts?

Yes

As I have never received any commands from God, I have thus never disobeyed him.

So you never read the Bible, or Torah? As the Torah (OT in el Bible) contains commands from God... I'm pretty sure you have disobeyed Him. Quick test:

Have you ever lied?
Have you ever stolen?
Have you ever lustfully looked at a woman?
Have you ever wanted revenge?

If yes to any of these, then you have disobeyed G*d.

What if you're following a long line of people. At the beginning of this line is a pink unicorn. You don't believe a pink unicorn exists. But you are following it. How do you reconcile this?

Well I guess you could be following in Christ's footsteps without knowing it, but you aren't willfully following Him. You might go through the motions but not choose to follow G*d. However both are equally possible.

 

[oi_antz]

Good to see you oi_antz!

This is not a narrow gate. I'd venture to guess the view that you and many other Christians have towards my belief system is inherently flawed. Allow me to ask: Do you believe that unicorns live on the moon? Obviously you don't. Why not? Because you've never seen any sort of evidence. Likewise, I've never seen any evidence that suggests a fully omniscient and omnipotent being exists. I've even given this alleged supreme being to demonstrate to me that it exists and - if it does exist - it has failed miserably.

If I asked you to spontaneously change your belief about unicorns living on the moon such that you believed that unicorns do live on the moon, could you? Think about how difficult that would be for you. If you told others you believed that unicorns lived on the moon, how would you feel about being so dishonest to both yourself and to others?

Well if you had actually witnessed unicorns then I would give credit to your testimony. There have been people who witnessed Jesus and His miracles, I give credit to their testimony. Pretty simple eh? What if there really are unicorns on a moon somewhere, what if they are the ones who make crop circles? Would you repent when the evidence is presented or would you bury your head in sand?

There is a good reason why you don't believe in Jesus, you just don't understand the nature of God. You will probably try to blame someone for that. Once you understand the proper context of Jesus and His role as Christ, then you will have the opportunity to accept His offer. Presently you don't seem to be searching for that understanding, this is why I have not engaged you much recently. I'm watching though, I urge you to keep soul searching because you know that the onus is on you, it always is. God has done more than what is reasonable to expect of Him. You keep denying His message when we present it to you, no matter how many ways you ask the answer is not good enough for you.

I try my best when I address you, that I can say your misunderstanding is not my fault. I do the best I can. I think carefully what is the best way to say something, I pray to Jesus is it ok to say this, I try to assess what sort of answer you are seeking. If you feel it is God's fault for not revealing Himself then you better take it up with Him. He's not an ogre going to bite your head off, He is only waiting for you to ask Him. I don't want you to worship me as some divine psychic and God doesn't want that either. No-one has the same relationship with God that I do, and no-one can have the same relationship with God that you have. You just need to make peace with Him and not get caught up on what others believe, just worship Him.

What's preventing you from asking Him anyway? Don't you remember that He told you that Abraham was saved because He trusted God to keep His promise? That's all you need to do. Jesus has promised that if you love Him and choose to obey Him then He will come and make His home with you. If you don't love Jesus then I just have to wonder why you come around here.

Anyway, thanks for listening to me again I pray this year your understanding will flourish and you will understand God in leaps and bounds. I pray that in Jesus' name, and I bet I am not alone in wishing you well

 

[razeontherock]

There is no evidence that would be sufficient for me to change my belief about whether or not a supreme being exists.

That's actually not true; if you had lived my life for example, you would have no choice but to actually KNOW G-d exists. I would like to think your real error here is in your concept of what you express by the word "God," rather than simply a heart that is hardened beyond all reason.

 

[razeontherock]

If God does exist, why would he set in motion precisely everything necessary for myself and the atheists of this world to believe he doesn't exist?

He's taunting satan, much like someone might challenge an opponent by saying "I can beat you with one hand tied behind my back." (And then actually doing it)